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[The Mad Draklor]

Lol the sony hate around this place is insane. They are trying to stop people. From spoiling the game nothing else. The game is unreleased the narrative of "sonys just doing this to be anti consumer" is literally laughable

Sharing opinions on leaked material falls under Fair Use. The one who engaged in illegal activity is the one who leaked the stuff. However, people who obtained the leaks, that the contract breacher leaked, are not in a fiduciary or contractual relationship with Sony/ND, i.e. they are not bound to a contract or NDA.

So yes, Sony is engaging in illegal activity in an attempt to censor people from expressing their opinions on TLOU2.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Lol the sony hate around this place is insane. They are trying to stop people. From spoiling the game nothing else. The game is unreleased the narrative of "sonys just doing this to be anti consumer" is literally laughable

You fanboys are so weird. I constantly see people calling this forum SONYGAF and claiming the mods are massively pro Sony. Now you're saying the Sony hate around this place is insane. Comical.

Copyright striking videos of people talking about this game is bullshit. Which is what we're talking about in this thread.

 

[nani17]

New system coming out and you do this

 

[Clear]

The game is going to review bombed right off the bat, that is more than obvious.

Anyone pay attention to user reviews since they became a meta-game played between groups of brigading idiots?

I know I don't

So yes, Sony is engaging in illegal activity in an attempt to censor people from expressing their opinions on TLOU2.

Has anyone, anywhere, ever been legally censured for issuing a DMCA strike in error? I find it kinda unlikely given that the way the system works seems to be as intended.

 

[sneas78]

These videos should be put in the OP. Both Rekieta and Hoeg are lawyers who go into the nitty-gritty of copyright and DMCA law:




TL;DR - Sony/ND is making false copyright and DMCA claims which is illegal. When you file a DMCA complaint, you swear under oath that you made a good faith investigation on whether the video falls under Fair Use. However, because the videos Sony/ND are taking down do not contain any images or video footage of the leaked material, it is impossible to argue that they filed a DMCA claim under good faith.

I'm sorry but both naughty dog and the you tubers are fake. So your saying youtubers are complaining about copyright claims because their lively hood depend on it, yet if naughty dog does it to preserves sales is a piece of shut company? The irony. Just shows everyone involved is a joke. Nothing to do with law and free speech but $$$ ... on both sides.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Has anyone, anywhere, ever been legally censured for issuing a DMCA strike in error? I find it kinda unlikely given that the way the system works seems to be as intended.

The system favors corporations as they have tons of money and they know that Youtubers are not willing to sue. If you want to file a DMCA complaint, then you are saying under oath that you made a good faith investigation on the Fair Use compliance of the material that you filed the complaint on. Filing a DMCA complaint on a video that did not show any images or video footage on the copyrighted material is not a good faith report.

I'm sorry but both naughty dog and the you tubers are fake. So your saying youtubers are complaining about copyright claims because their lively hood depend on it, yet if naughty dog does it to preserves sales is a piece of shut company? The irony. Just shows everyone involved is a joke. Nothing to do with law and free speech but $$$ ... on both sides.

Legality is not dependent on the genuineness of YouTubers.

 

[DForce]

You fanboys are so weird. I constantly see people calling this forum SONYGAF and claiming the mods are massively pro Sony. Now you're saying the Sony hate around this place is insane. Comical.

Copyright striking videos of people talking about this game is bullshit. Which is what we're talking about in this thread.

Naughty Dog threads always bring out the haters.

I would admit that what Sony is doing is wrong, but if people are trying to spread this false narrative about me and my company, then I wouldn't mind striking their videos down.

But lets be honest here: These YouTubers are looking for clicks. They want to discuss what's popular just so that they could make some money, even if what they're saying is not true. You don't see most of these YouTubers attacking ND\Sony giving an objective view about what's going on. T

These far right leaning YouTubers loved Uncharted 4 and The Last of Us part one, but now they're going back and saying how their games are nothing more than SJW propaganda?

 

[Clear]

The system favors corporations as they have tons of money and they know that Youtubers are not willing to sue. If you want to file a DMCA complaint, then you are saying under oath that you made a good faith investigation on the Fair Use compliance of the material that you filed the complaint on. Filing a DMCA complaint on a video that did not show any images or video footage on the copyrighted material is not a good faith report.

That's all well and good, but my point is that what consequences are there for filing a DMCA complaint in error? What is the legal "harm" and what are the claimant's liabilities? I can't see them being much, if anything.

At the very least there would need to be a full legal test of the merits of each disputed claim, which obviously isn't going to be cheap and not necessarily cut-and-dried in anyone's favor. I mean it could be a question as to whether the take-down was issued in the good-faith belief that it was infringing their IP, and even though it was subsequently found NOT to be the case, at the end of the day it was still just the IP holder asserting their moral and legal right to defending their property.

Point being I can't see it being at all easy to prove the issuer of the DMCA notice was acting in bad faith, even if they were in error. And as they weren't directly responsible for any damages incurred as result of the copyright strike, i.e. channel suspension, I don't see how they could be held culpable.

Basically you'd have to beat YouTube, to get at the alleged "gagging" party (Sony) in a case like this. That sounds kinda unwinnable to me.

 

[SentientStone]

The growing online trend nowadays to get people to hate something is to note how SJW they are.
Once this trend becomes mainstream, then it is almost time for the final phase. The ultimate counterculture where we merge with the you know what...

 

[gradient]

Guys, please stop bleating on about NDA. A Non Disclosure Agreement only applies to the parties who signed it. It is a contract between parties not an overrarching law that takes precedent over any and all other laws and legal rights.

Also, copyright does not prevent people from holding, expressing and/or discussing opinions of something that is under copyright.

It's fucking terrifying that so many in this thread seem to believe that a private organisation has and/or should have such overreaching powers and control just because they produce a product that you like. If a company wishes to maintain secrecy about an upcoming product then it is the responsibility of that company to maintain that secrecy. If they fail to do so then they do not have the right to infringe on the public's free thought or speech or prohibit discussion of information that has come into the public domain.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I'm not entirely against this to be honest. How many threads about Sony exclusives have we seen trolled by people with a different console? How many SJWs have we seen talking absolute BS about well known and loved franchises? We do not know whether people are after hits, fame or are genuinely critiquing TLOU2. ND have worked for years on this and want people to judge for themselves. How many people on this very forum have said 'that's saved me 60$'? I'm waiting to play it myself or get a rational breakdown from someone I trust.

 

[sneas78]

What a shit show.

 

[Yoda]

Lol the sony hate around this place is insane. They are trying to stop people. From spoiling the game nothing else. The game is unreleased the narrative of "sonys just doing this to be anti consumer" is literally laughable

That isn't what's happening. Videos giving an opinion on the leaks (not saying what the leaks are) are being illegally removed from YouTube. They're abusing the fact it's extremely costly to prosecute a fake copyright claim for a small time creator, thus banking on the fact by the time they drop the faux copyright claim the PR disaster will be over. This practice is despicable regardless of who it comes from.

 

[Kempton]

Videos giving an opinion on the leaks (not saying what the leaks are) are being illegally removed from YouTube.

Honestly it wouldn't matter if they were, otherwise I agree.
These 'it's just Sony/Naughty Dog haters takes' are bizarre too, personally I like both companies but the situation here seems completely whack.

Let's remove this from the stupid gamer wars narrative for a minute.
Company X has a leak for Upcoming product.
Upcoming product leak is discussed by unrelated Individual Y on a thirdparty hosting platform.
Company X abuses hosting platforms rules to silence Individual Y discourse.

Now imagine company X were Amazon or some other behemoth company.. As some say it's "problematic".


My devils advocate considerations might be that the youtubers aren't telling the whole truth and violated some other rule or something . Also the ever relevant argument about YouTube role as a platform.

 

[Virex]

One thing I noticed about this is many of these people get hit with TWO copyright strikes each. And its some random MUSOTNT LTD...not sony of america etc. They arent part of SONY or ND.

Macho Ma'am Abby Savage

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Angry Joe just posted a video discussing the leaks (no actual spoilers and such, but similar to other people just talking leaks), which leads into his video discussing the spoiler with two other guys (so if you don't want it spoiled, dont watch his video he uploaded a couple hours ago).

Never the less, he even challenges Sony to strike down his channel like they did to other smaller scale YT channels who were discussing the leak (but no spoiled content).

Let's see how big Sony and ND's balls are to hit a big gaming channel like AJ with copyright strike down like small channels with a couple thousand subs. AJ YT channel has 3.2 million subs.

 

[DForce]

Angry Joe just posted a video discussing the leaks (no actual spoilers and such, but similar to other people just talking leaks), which leads into his video discussing the spoiler (so if you don't want it, dont watch his video he uploaded a couple hours ago).

Never the less, he even challenges Sony to strike down his channel like they did to other smaller scale YT channels.

Let's see how big Sony and ND's balls are to hit a big gaming channel like AJ with copyright strike down like small channels with a couple thousand subs. AJ YT channel has 3.2 million subs.

I saw him discuss spoilers and he's telling his viewers plot leaks that are not even true.

If this game reviews well over all, I think this is going to teach people not to jump to conclusions and not to believe everything you read on the internet.

 

[Geki-D]

I saw him discuss spoilers and he's telling his viewers plot leaks that are not even true.

Hum. Is he spreading the misinformation about it being a "anti-woke" protest by an ND employee or revenge for missed pay?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I saw him discuss spoilers and he's telling his viewers plot leaks that are not even true.

If this game reviews well over all, I think this is going to teach people not to jump to conclusions and not to believe everything you read on the internet.

Many sites have discussed leaks (non spoiler) and leaks (spoiler filled).

The purpose of the first 5 minutes of his video (before going into spoilers with his buddies which they knew at the time, since the video was taped 4-5 days ago as his buddy says ND released a statement "yesterday") is to defend anyone talking LoU but didn't spoil anything, but got struck down.

He's purposely going full tilt spoiler and gabbing wanting to see if Sony has the guts to strike down his channel like others.

I don't expect anyone striking down a YT channel at 3:00 am, but we'll see if Sony contacts YT tomorrow or Monday.

If anything AJ should be taken down. The guy has 3.2M subs. Who cares about a game site with 4000 subs talking about it.

 

[DForce]

Hum. Is he spreading the misinformation about it being a "anti-woke" protest by an ND employee or revenge for missed pay?

I only watched a small portion of the video so I didn't see him discuss any of these topics.

I just think people are going to realize that they jumped the gun and were fooled about a lot of leak that are floating around online.

 

[Strategize]

People using that 4chan plot synopsis (that Angry Joe used) that still end up playing the game are gonna be like "Wait that didn't happen in what I read" through like 70% of the game.

 

[Geki-D]

I only watched a small portion of the video so I didn't see him discuss any of these topics.

I just think people are going to realize that they jumped the gun and were fooled about a lot of leak that are floating around online.

I not gonna watch it either, but quite frankly if he's just parroting fake stuff about the game from some 4Chan post, then I expect he'll also be parroting the lies about why the leak happened. They were after all pretty much from the same place.

It's sad to see a big channel like that blatantly lying about the game and spreading misinformation about it, and possibly about the makers aren't gonna get any blow back or even admit they were spewing utter BS when they actually do play the final product.

People using that 4chan plot synopsis (that Angry Joe used) that still end up playing the game are gonna be like "Wait that didn't happen in what I read" through like 70% of the game.

He won't even mention it in his actual review. Just sweep the fact he was spreading BS right under the rug.

 

[Mattyp]

People using that 4chan plot synopsis (that Angry Joe used) that still end up playing the game are gonna be like "Wait that didn't happen in what I read" through like 70% of the game.

The problem is the 4chan leak came out weeks before the actual gameplay leaks, those gameplay leaks then confirmed 80% of the 4chan leak with video footage as downright proof.

Are we saying someone with genuine legitimate leaks that turned out to be true threw some fake points into contention also? X for doubt. I believe like many are summarising we just haven't seen that footage of the last points yet.

 

[Kagey K]

People using that 4chan plot synopsis (that Angry Joe used) that still end up playing the game are gonna be like "Wait that didn't happen in what I read" through like 70% of the game.

I didn't sign an NDA and have read some of the leaks.

Let's say I make a video now and all it is is reading Gaf posts in the spoiler thread.

Does that deserve a strike?

 

[Strategize]

The problem is the 4chan leak came out weeks before the actual gameplay leaks, those gameplay leaks then confirmed 80% of the 4chan leak with video footage as downright proof.

Are we saying someone with genuine legitimate leaks that turned out to be true threw some fake points into contention also? X for doubt. I believe like manly are summarising we just haven't seen that footage of the last points yet.

The only legitimate plot detail leak that happened before this past week, was someone on reddit mentioning Mystery women. That 4chan shit with the Christian cult was completely fucking off.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Angry Joe has been a pretty big tool for a while now.

 

[Karuyag]

I'd like to see an example of ND/Sony taking down videos that do positive talk based on the leaks. If that never happened, then I'd say it's pretty scummy for Sony to only target negative talk if their main goal is to prevent further spreading of leaks.

The thing about opinions is, opinions need to be given out of context. Someone can say they hate something, but usually they have to explain why through context. If they end up mentioning the context (the leak), then wouldn't that technically mean they're pretty much spreading the leak anyways (even if they never show footage)?

If enough people believe the negative opinions from influencers about my product from information that I haven't released yet or from possibly incorrect info, and then the people proceed to hate my product before I even release it, should I just do nothing and let the influencers keep sharing the "opinion" (and potentially lose a return on my investment after I spent a lot of resources making the product), or should I do something about it?

What would you do?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I'd like to see an example of ND/Sony taking down videos that do positive talk based on the leaks. If that never happened, then I'd say it's pretty scummy for Sony to only target negative talk if their main goal is to prevent further spreading of leaks.

The thing about opinions is, opinions need to be given out of context. Someone can say they hate something, but usually they have to explain why through context. If they end up mentioning the context (the leak), then wouldn't that technically mean they're pretty much spreading the leak anyways (even if they never show footage)?

If enough people believe the negative opinions from influencers about my product from information that I haven't released yet or from possibly incorrect info, and then the people proceed to hate my product before I even release it, should I just do nothing and let the influencers keep sharing the "opinion" (and potentially lose a return on my investment after I spent a lot of resources making the product), or should I do something about it?

What would you do?

Accept I fucked up. Go after the leaker and take the steps to ensure it doesn't happen again.

The leak is public information now. They have no right to stop it from spreading.

Good thing they don't either. Saved me £50 of this gutter trash.

The biggest offense in all this is that Ghosts had to be delayed for Naughty Cucks

 

[Great Hair]

Angry Joe has been a pretty big tool for a while now.

Relying on old footage from years ago, to make fun of someone´s appearance is pathetic. Fuck this racist-spitting-wannabe-low-budget-rocker&spoony-impersonator ... he better be using a facemask, and not just because of covid19, he needs one for eternity.

Ewww, now i need a shower.

 

[obin_gam]

Distributing or "reviewing" stolen material SHOULD be taken down...
I'm on ND/Sonys side here.

 

[Dacon]

I think anything under 25 million would be a failure.
Under 20 million would be bad.
Under 15 million would be catastrophic and heads will publicly roll.

EarthDefenceForce can sell 10M and be a huge success. Not so much so for TLOU.

It is the most anticipated game ever. Most expensive ever? (possibly)
and a followup to the biggest game of the previous generation.

No matter what. This game will have production qualities that no other game ever has been close to.
No matter what, gaming will become split before-TLOU2 and after-TLOU2. Don't miss it.

Why did I read this in trumps voice

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Relying on old footage from years ago, to make fun of someone´s appearance is pathetic. Fuck this racist-spitting-wannabe-low-budget-rocker&spoony-impersonator ... he better be using a facemask, and not just because of covid19, he needs one for eternity.

Ewww, now i need a shower.

Wow, haha, you okay, there?

 

[Karuyag]

From what I'm gathering. This is a case of fair use on unpublished work.

 

[Yoda]

Distributing or "reviewing" stolen material SHOULD be taken down...
I'm on ND/Sonys side here.

Sony/ND/Their PR company does not own a copyright on the opinion of anyone. The leaks aren't articulated in the video, footage isn't shown. As I laid out in the OP, even if they were, it'd be fair use.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

I just find it funny that some here I believe honestly think if halo infinite was in this scenario MS wouldn't be doing the exact SAME thing. people are seriously taking console warring to new levels. As good ole solid snake said war has definitely changed.

 

[Yoda]

Angry Joe on the subject:

EDITED: It has spoilers. If you're curious for his opinion on it, you can look it up his channel (he gives a warning before he starts discussing the spoilers, he doesn't show any leaked images or videos)

 

[Tamy]

Distributing or "reviewing" stolen material SHOULD be taken down...
I'm on ND/Sonys side here.

they are taking down videos where people only TALK ABOUT THE LEAKS. They don't show any video/screenshots if the leak. They JUST TALK ABOUT IT.

 

[gioGAF]

It is not illegal nor should it be punishable to discuss publicly available information. If that information was released illegally by someone, that someone should pay the consequences. However, that information is out there, you can't forbid people from talking about it. YouTube's policies are ridiculous.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Is it right or wrong to judge/rate a game or movie on social media platforms before its officially released?

 

[Craig of War]

LOL copyright strike for just talking about it really Sony

 

[JerryinSoCal]

No, this is not what they should be doing, there is absolutely nothing illegal about discussing leaks, regardless of whether those leaks were obtained illegally. Sony and Naughty Dog are reacting in a really nasty and disappointing way to the leaks, like a female body builder that has just lost at the Mr. Olympia tournament.

These "discussions" are just being done for views, every day these people talk about the same crap as the day before and IF something new pops up they act like they are covering breaking news when the info is already out there for all of us to see ourselves. Too many people watch these videos just so they feel validated. Most of these people make the same kind of video over over again, that way they can keep their audience fired up and coming back for the next rant and it's a huge waste of time.

As far as Sony and ND, I don't see anything wrong with them trying to protect their IP, these youtubers haven't played the game from beginning to end so they aren't coming at us with an informed opinion or a critique of the game the way a reviewer would, they are doing this purely for their own personal gain and they don't want to be questioned. It's one thing to talk about hardware spec leaks etc but to talk about story content that's taken out of context is too much and if I were a game dev or publisher I'd probably be doing the same thing. In less than two months the game will be out and they can speak freely about it, right now they are basically trying to hurt Sony financially while making money for themselves at the same time and it's BS.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

Is it right or wrong to judge/rate a game or movie on social media platforms before its officially released?

When you haven't actually played it/seen it yeah. None of these people have seen everything and they haven't played 1 second of it so why should their opinions be valued in the first place?

 

[Azurro]

These "discussions" are just being done for views, every day these people talk about the same crap as the day before and IF something new pops up they act like they are covering breaking news when the info is already out there for all of us to see ourselves. Too many people watch these videos just so they feel validated. Most of these people make the same kind of video over over again, that way they can keep their audience fired up and coming back for the next rant and it's a huge waste of time.

As far as Sony and ND, I don't see anything wrong with them trying to protect their IP, these youtubers haven't played the game from beginning to end so they aren't coming at us with an informed opinion or a critique of the game the way a reviewer would, they are doing this purely for their own personal gain and they don't want to be questioned. It's one thing to talk about hardware spec leaks etc but to talk about story content that's taken out of context is too much and if I were a game dev or publisher I'd probably be doing the same thing. In less than two months the game will be out and they can speak freely about it, right now they are basically trying to hurt Sony financially while making money for themselves at the same time and it's BS.

Nobody cares about your opinion of the youtubers discussing this nor what they do for content, it's irrelevant.

If people are taking the information out of context "and that totally sucks", it's still irrelevant how you feel, as long as they are not showing videos or images of the leaked content, then them discussing the leaks is discussing publicly available information. Sony nor Naught Dog don't have the right to bully these channels into submission, whether they are trying to protect their IP or not.

If you were a publisher and were to do the same thing, you'd be doing an illegal act and would lose if challenged on it.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

Nobody cares about your opinion of the youtubers discussing this nor what they do for content, it's irrelevant.

If people are taking the information out of context "and that totally sucks", it's still irrelevant how you feel, as long as they are not showing videos or images of the leaked content, then them discussing the leaks is discussing publicly available information. Sony nor Naught Dog don't have the right to bully these channels into submission, whether they are trying to protect their IP or not.

If you were a publisher and were to do the same thing, you'd be doing an illegal act and would lose if challenged on it.

Let youtube decide it, either way those people are leaches and offer nothing of value.

 

[Azurro]

Let youtube decide it, either way those people are leaches and offer nothing of value.

Your disapproval of what they do is coloring your opinion of something clearly wrong that Sony and Naughty Dog are doing. It's not illegal to discuss rumors, and there have been leaks for movies and TV shows, why is it such a big deal now that a videogame leaks?

 

[Kempton]

These "discussions" are just being done for views, every day these people talk about the same crap as the day before and IF something new pops up they act like they are covering breaking news when the info is already out there for all of us to see ourselves. Too many people watch these videos just so they feel validated. Most of these people make the same kind of video over over again, that way they can keep their audience fired up and coming back for the next rant and it's a huge waste of time.

As far as Sony and ND, I don't see anything wrong with them trying to protect their IP, these youtubers haven't played the game from beginning to end so they aren't coming at us with an informed opinion or a critique of the game the way a reviewer would, they are doing this purely for their own personal gain and they don't want to be questioned. It's one thing to talk about hardware spec leaks etc but to talk about story content that's taken out of context is too much and if I were a game dev or publisher I'd probably be doing the same thing. In less than two months the game will be out and they can speak freely about it, right now they are basically trying to hurt Sony financially while making money for themselves at the same time and it's BS.

How do you not see how shortsighted it is to allow companies (with a vested financial interest in their own product) to dictate what can and can not be said about that product until some arbitrary date?

Your argument is full of undefinable subjective assessments. How do you define 'protecting' ip?
How do you define the line between unacceptable story discussion and other acceptable topics(hardware specs)?
How do you define a bad faith critic vs a good faith critic?

Its funny because I actually agree with your value assessment of some of these channels but I don't think censorship is morally fair to those people, being silenced for an opinion is a far greater wrong than being a YouTube whiner. Mostly I think your proposed system would enable systemic corporate abuse.

 

[Jayjayhd34]

Your disapproval of what they do is coloring your opinion of something clearly wrong that Sony and Naughty Dog are doing. It's not illegal to discuss rumors, and there have been leaks for movies and TV shows, why is it such a big deal now that a videogame leaks?

Theirs no doubt that what naughty dog is doing is wrong. However majority of you tube videos I've watched have contained information that is factual incorrect, not rumour t hey using channel to spread misinformation.

Look at this from this perspective if starting making threads every single day on neogaf that where totally utter bollocks how long would i last ? Spreading misinformation for financial gain is wrong

 

[Yoda]

When you haven't actually played it/seen it yeah. None of these people have seen everything and they haven't played 1 second of it so why should their opinions be valued in the first place?

Their opinions aren't important, yet need to be censored?

Let youtube decide it, either way those people are leaches and offer nothing of value.

Sorry what? Voicing an opinion on a news story = they're leeches? Let YouTube decide? It's a policy they have to put in place to enforce a DMCA/Copyright law, as neither of those things have jurisdiction over opinions, I'm not exactly sure what YouTube is deciding; this is pure (illegal) abuse of the copyright system.

 

[fersnake]

im ok with that

 

[triplestation]

Also this

incredible video

my god