Lionel Richie
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We're all Pacers fans tonight.
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NBA 2017 Playoffs |OT| WE DID IT
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LeroyPantwether
Member
I'm not sure I follow. Why doesn't Al's salary count on next year's books? If they had never signed Al would they not have even more cap space next year? Regardless, my point was, if you're just gonna end up conceding the season anyway, why bother getting Al? Just give young players time or something.
the fuck are you talking about with conceding the season????? they're the 1 seed.
for real. i know they lost game 1 but cleveland is just not that good. i don't think boston will beat cavs but they're certainly in contention
as far as i'm concerned celtics, raptors, cavs and wizards are all the 4 seed
Cornbread78
Member
The Celtics have 2 glaring weaknesses that have been and will be exposed in the play-offs:
a) another elite scorer to take the pressure off of IT
b) a big man to grab rebounds and protect the rim
The Celts did nothing at the trading deadline again to help themselves solve either problem and Danny has continually chosen to keep more assets instead of making the choice. They are the #3 team in the East talent wise, not the #1. I understand about leaving room for the salary cap, but they could have at least tried to leverage some of their assets to get this team some help now.....
What makes things worse is that this is, yet another, draft where the Celts are not going to get what they really need, so why is he still hoarding assets?
East "Power" ranking:
1) Cavs
.
.
.
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2) Raps
3) Celts
4) Wiz
That's just how it is. Can't blame the Cavs for coasting through the regular season with all the injuries they had and knowing they can win once everyone was healthy and they could do it on any court...
Ninja Scooter
Member
Brooklyn pick for Porzingis
god i'm so sick of this argument. we are the 1 seed in the playoffs and the lottery and for some reason danny is getting shit for it.
Other than PG and Butler which still wouldn't make them the best team they were no moves to make them a title contender if so tell me what those were.
Cornbread78
Member
Of course he is, fans want results. The team is super fun to watch at times and they work their a$$ off for a really good coach, but at the end of the day, they do not have the talent to compete where they need to.
Now, are they just wasting time until LeBron hangs it up? interesting strategy if that is the case, but just finishing first with no shot at winning the East (without injuries to other teams) is like getting a participation trophy at a recreational tournament.
He made that miracle happen a few years ago with KG and RayRay and people want THAT of impact on the court has done.
Regardless of what people say Danny is doing an excellent job because he single handedly destroyed the Nets Franchise for another couple years at least and has gathered a $hit ton of assets, now we are still waiting for those assets to pan out, at some point, at least one of them will be a top of the line guy, right?
What did Dallas give up for Noel? What did Cousins go for?
I think Noel and Butler would have given them a good shot this year to help beat the Cavs. Might have still lost, but they would have filled some huge needs...
IT
Butler
Crowder
Horford
Noel
Lionel Richie
Member
Danny has done a tremendous job, but the market for big guys this year was really not that strong. Guys were being traded for peanuts left and right and Danny couldn't find a single deal without using the Nets picks? That's unfathomable.
Otherwise yeah it's been great.
LeroyPantwether
Member
Can't wait to see that banner in the garden. "2016-2017 #1 seed".
Don't get wrong Ainge has made some great moves. However, many of us feel like the iron was hot this season - and that they had the assets to strike. Moreover, Ainge even indicated that the time to make a push was now/soon, as evidenced by the horford acquisition. That's why it all just seems like a build up for nothing, at least as it pertains to this season. They were set up to be one or two stars away from actually competing in the playoffs (not just be reg season champs), they had the assets to make a move, but instead went into the payoffs with an obviously deficient team. You really can't see why that's frustrating /irritating?
Tldr, Ainge is a tease and winning the regular season is not an achievement.
Considering boogie was had for a bag of donuts, I would have taken a shot. Fills rebounding and scoring concerns to some degree.
LeroyPantwether
Member
I don't mind being patient. But signing a depreciating big to a large contract does not suggest that it is a time for patience. How good is horford going to be by the time Jalen or those picks amount to star talent? How could Horford possibly be part of any plan that includes being patient and /or waiting for lebron to retire.
i3allistic
Member
Been saying since trade went down, Alvin Gentry not the right coach for two big man ....Alvin Gentry a small ball coach , and i like Alvin as a coach too
LeroyPantwether
Member
I'm not sure how that's relevant? Are you saying adding cousins would have also made the Celtics worse?
BlackGhost
Banned
Goooooo Cav.
So your saying Boogie on the Celtics would make it worse? I just can't see that. Dudes one of the best bigs in the game. He would take some pressure off IT to score, help with rebounding, defending, add spacing to the floor, etc. It's hard to do better than Demarcus imo.
And yea, maybe they would give up a pick or two. But would it be worth it? Thats the question. Right now Celtics, number one seed or not, won't make it to the finals, and they won't beat Golden State.
It wouldn't put them past Cleve or GS and yes Boogie is a loser until proven otherwise. Apparently people don't get that giving up lottery picks and players to still be worse than the best teams is stupid..
Cornbread78
Member
If the lottery picks aren't up to Boogie talent, then they are pretty useless IMO. Danny can gather all the assets he wants, but if they are not top 10 talent, then it's going to be an endless cycle of being good, but not good enough to compete.
When it comes to Boogie why did no teams even bother trying to get him when they could have gotten him for nothing including every current playoff team? A top ten talent for nothing and every team takes a hard pass...
Cornbread78
Member
He's a dink for sure, but he can play ball. Granted, the Celts have made it this far on team chemistry, however, that is not going to get it done in the play-offs. Talent will win out eventually...
Talent prevails. Thanks for the tip. The best team has two top 7 players and two more top 20 players. People with their heads in the sand still think one move is getting the Celtics to that level... While giving up other core players and lottery picks.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I'm starting to sour on DMC. The fact that he's so dominant and statistically amazing yet hasn't even sniffed a winning record or the playoffs is starting to look bad on him.
Cornbread78
Member
I don't thonk anyone has said that or thonks that. However, is staying pat, hoping to get lucky year after year with assets going to win it?
Next year the Celtics from 1-3 could have
IT/Fultz
Bradley/Smart
Crowder/Brown
That's an incredibly versatile group of players who in my opinion could lead the team to a title. It will really come down to free agency for a big and the Zizic/Yabusele combo coming on from overseas.
panthapanda
Member
Yeah they spread them out a lot now.
I refuse to accept that reality and instead believe it's another Berenstain/Berenstein universe thing. Damn it Ainge, you did it again!
LeroyPantwether
Member
Given the asking price, I would have loved to see what Brad Stevens could have done with him. Also, he's won a gold in Olympics so he's not a complete loser like you say. I know it's not the best but it does show he can play with other stars at a high level.
Why get Horford then? He's not gonna be relevant by the time the pick and Brown develop. I agree that lineup looks nice but why horford?
You have to factor in that Fultz, despite his high potential, is not going to be a great player right away.
Even if the Celtics win the lottery, get Fultz, AND hit in free agency with a guy like Hayward, their lineup would be :
Thomas/Fultz
Hayward/Bradley/Smart
Crowder/Brown
Johnson/Jerebko
Horford/Olynyk
That lineup wouldn't be good enough to compete for a title next season.
Then you factor in that after next season Thomas, Bradley and Smart will all be free agents. Thomas will want max money, which if the Celtics give it to him, they would lose both Bradley and Smart and it would tie up most of their money in the trio of Horford, Thomas and Hayward.
The biggest problem I have with everyone's argument that Ainge is right to hold onto their assets is it assumes they will still have this solid core of players by the time those draft picks become stars.
They could have had star players with solid role players around them right now for this season. It's not a guarantee that they will have that down the road.
LeroyPantwether
Member
Exactly this.
Because he's a really good player???
why do you think this? who could they have traded for that wouldn't have involved trading away picks + core players?
They would definitely have to get rid of some assets, never said they wouldn't. But they could have added star talent while maintaining a deep team.
They could trade both Brooklyn picks and Jaylen Brown, Tyler Zeller for Jimmy Butler. They could have traded their own first round pick, Terry Rozier and James Young for Noel.
Their lineup would be
Thomas/Smart
Butler/Bradley
Crowder
Horford/Johnson
Noel/Olynyk
That team has two elite scorers, elite defense all over the floor, and their rebounding and shot blocking issues would be gone.
lol lol lol lol 2 lottery picks and another potential lottery pick for Jimmy Butler. The biggest haul by a very large margin in NBA history for Jimmy Butler..Ainge ain't the fucking Nets..
LeroyPantwether
Member
Who are the Celtics. "core" players?
I mainly was just trying to do deals that the opposing team's would definitely accept. In reality I would probably swap Brown with Smart in that deal.
And the difference with Butler and other "superstar" trades in the past is he still has multiple years left on his contract way under market value and he's still in his absolute prime. But if you think the Bulls would have taken less, then that is all the more reason that they should have pulled the trigger.
IT, Crowder, Bradley, Smart, Brown, Horford. Who do you think?
So trading say this years Brooklyn Pick Crowder Bradley and a bench player for Butler makes you so much better...when you now have to replace your SF or SG and get another bench player..not really. Still not winning the title except now you don't have a lottery pick and no money to add a max player in FA..
If the Celtics traded for Butler, it would be to compete for the title. You don't trade Bradley or Crowder in the deal. You'd throw in other first round picks to sweeten the pot and add Zeller and some other filler to make the money work. That way you'd have a Butler, Thomas, Horford trio with a great supporting cast.
Again, the Bulls weren't making that trade. They wanted players not picks.
LeroyPantwether
Member
Everyone except Bradley. I hate the tiny back court him and IT make, he sucks at creating his own shot, and his D was just alright this year. His value is still high enough that he should have been the piece moved, and he likely would have been had he not gotten hurt at the deadline -especially with smart emerging during that same time.
As for Brown, I view him like Al Jefferson back when he was traded.* Young talent that I wanted to keep, but Sometimes you gotta give to get.
*Brown has a higher ceiling
The Bulls have no future. They're a mediocre basketball team with no young talent. If the Bulls wouldn't trade Butler for 2 potential top 5 picks they're really stupid. Getting Crowder and Bradley doesn't do anything for them other then keep them from being really bad. They'd win 30 games. If the goal is a championship the worst place you want to be is a bad team that wins too many games to get high draft picks.
With the Brooklyn picks, you at least have a shot at star players and relevance in a couple years.
And they would still get a couple of decent players in the deal because you have to match salary in NBA trades. They could get 2 of Zeller, Smart, Jerebko.
Nah, want PG to leave Indiana and a sweep would help.
BlackGhost
Banned
Go Cav. They'll need to try something different and score the most points 🤔
Becleve
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