JUAN GONZÁLEZ: In line with your concern about the growing threat in terms of nuclear weapons, there are also maneuvers going on off the coast of Korea, and the words that weve heard from President Trump in the last few days, that if China doesnt deal with North Korea, the U.S. will. Can you talk about his policies already, his developing policies toward Korea and toward China?
NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, its kind of interesting to look at the record. The claim is "Well, weve tried everything. Nothing works. Therefore, we have to use force." Is it true that nothings worked? I mean, there is a record, after all. And if you look at the record, its interesting.
1994, Clinton madeestablished what was called the Framework Agreement with North Korea. North Korea would terminate its efforts to develop nuclear weapons. The U.S. would reduce hostile acts. It more or less worked, and neither side lived up to it totally, but, by 2000, North Korea had not proceeded with its nuclear weapons programs. George W. Bush came in and immediately launched an assault on North Koreayou know, "axis of evil," sanctions and so on. North Korea turned to producing nuclear weapons. In 2005, there was an agreement between North Korea and the United States, a pretty sensible agreement. North Korea agreed to terminate its development of nuclear weapons. In return, it called for a nonaggression pact. So, stop making hostile threats, relief from harsh sanctions, and provision of a system to provide North Korea with low-enriched uranium for medical and other purposesthat was the proposal. George Bush instantly tore it to shreds. Within days, the U.S. was imposingtrying to disrupt North Korean financial transactions with other countries through Macau and elsewhere. North Korea backed off, started building nuclear weapons again. I mean, maybe you can say its the worst regime in history, whatever you like, but they have been following a pretty rational tit-for-tat policy.
And why are they developing nuclear weapons altogether? I mean, the economy is in bad shape. They could certainly use the resources. Everyone understands that its a deterrent. And they have a proposal, actually. Theres a proposal on the table. China and North Korea proposed that North Korea should terminate its further development of nuclear weapons. In return, the United States should stop carrying out threatening military maneuvers with South Korea right on its border. Not an unreasonable proposal. Its simply dismissed. Actually, Obama dismissed it, too. There are possible steps that could be taken to alleviate which could be an extremely serious crisis. I mean, if the U.S. did decide to use force against North Korea, one immediate reaction, according to the military sources available to us, is that Seoul, the city of Seoul, would simply be wiped out by mass North Korean artillery aimed at it. And who knows where wed go from there? But the opportunity to produceto move towards a negotiated diplomatic settlement does not seem outlandish. I mean, this Chinese-North Korean proposal is certainly worth serious consideration, I would think.
And its worth bearing in mind that North Korea has some memories. They were practically destroyed by some of the most intensive bombing in history. The bombingyou shouldits worth reading. Maybe you should read, people, the official Air Force history of the bombing of North Korea. Its shattering. I mean, they had flattened the country. There were no targets left. So, therefore, they decided, well, well attack the damswhich is a war crime, of course. And the description of the attack on the dams iswithout the exact wording, I hate to paraphrase it. You should really read thethey were simply exalting, in the official histories, Air Force Quarterly and others, about thehow magnificent it will be to see this massive flood of water coursing through North Korea, wiping out crops. For Asians, the rice crops is their life. This will destroy them. It will be magnificent. The North Koreans lived through that. And having nuclear-capable B-52s flying on their border is not a joke.
But, most significantly, theres a record of partial success in diplomatic initiatives, total failure with sanctions and harsh moves, and options that are on the table which could be pursued. Now, instead of concern about whether somebody talked to the Russians, this is the kind of thing that should bethat should be pursued very seriously. Thats what the Democrats or anyone hoping for some form of peace and justice should be working for.
as long as nothing serious happens.
