The studies of that particularly researcher seems to have been debunked and the American Psychological Association doesn't consider them accurate.
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Nebraska Supreme Court rules 16-year-old not mature enough for abortion
- Thread starter Dead Man
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Devolution
Member
It's not a child.
hey_monkey
Banned
Rollicking good number of assumptions out the gate.
Do you know the circumstances of conception?
Do you know they didn't use some form of birth control?
What say you to the fact that she's under the age of legal consent in her state?
Oh, right, it's easier just to say YOU DUN GOOFED.
Devolution
Member
Great for society too. Fuck you, you gonna have that baby whether you want to or not. Who has the moral high ground again?
They shouldn't have sex.
The rally cry when you don't want to deal with reality and stick it to everyone.
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
I read this as "a fucking, pregnancy, and birth!" I'm not sure that's how you meant it.
Your comment reminds me: this opinion is only limited to the one girl, and the court's holding shouldn't be read as a statement that all sixteen-year-old girls are likewise insufficiently mature and well-informed.
Devolution
Member
I don't really give a shit. Any girl should be able to decide to terminate her pregnancy.
People wanna talk shit about Sharia Law, how about we have some decent fucking laws in our own country that allows girls/women control over their reproductive organs huh?
The practical effects absolutely mirror the thread title. Because she was a ward of the state, she has no way of having any abortion access that other 16-year olds in Nebraska might have with parental consent. Practically, they are barring any ward of the state from ever having an abortion because there is no possible way for those young women to get parental consent. It's fairly odious.
Not to mention the statement made by the trial judge telling she was killing the baby inside of her.
hey_monkey
Banned
God, I wish somebody had thought of that before! Maybe you should go and tell them not to have sex. See how well it works.
But not guys though because they don't get kids from sex, right? How do we punish them for it?
You're not going to find left-leaning media trumpeting suicide rates for girls who have abortions. Read the articles, open the links to genuine medical studies, and make your own determination from there. Even if the commentary from the original article (or website) is garbage, the studies often are not.
Yes, abstinence forever.
You might want a camera or maybe an imvasive monitoring device to stop people who are too immature to have an abortion to not have sex.
I'm sorry but your post is not relastic, more like teach them safe sex, provide birth control and condoms freely to them and give them the option to deal with pregnancy if it arises early on.
But no, make a foster child have a foster child, once out of the womb let it fend for itself, living the american dream.
Devolution
Member
Do you know how objective statistics work? Serious question.
But the study you listed was debunked by the APA. So, no Devo, don't read the article.
No such thing in the social sciences.
hey_monkey
Banned
Well, we already talked about the female researcher. The male researcher is a known anti-abortion advocate.
Smells like bias. If the studies were so concrete, surely you could produce unbiased proof.
eta: shit, even less-biased proof.
TestOfTide
Banned
The only reason she isn't allowed to have an abortion is because Nebraska's backwards law saying that when it comes to abortion, parents get to supercede a pregnant girl's consent to an abortion even though if it were almost any other medical procedure she would be guaranteed the right to refuse or request treatment (specifically because she is pregnant) assuming she is alert and oriented.
I wish someone would make a remix of that recent antiobamacare add with the uncle sam puppet, but make it about conservartives and abortion.
Our state is still pretty fucking shameful at the legislative and executive level.
Fucking hell.
Nebraska is one of the states where it's damn near impossible to get your tubes tied as a woman because you have to basically get your husband to sign off, or you need to "save yourself" for a future possible man, but a dude can go get clipped without his wife ever being notified.
Can't wait until I get out of here
Fucking hell.
Nebraska is one of the states where it's damn near impossible to get your tubes tied as a woman because you have to basically get your husband to sign off, or you need to "save yourself" for a future possible man, but a dude can go get clipped without his wife ever being notified.
Can't wait until I get out of here
It's like sourcing your polls from Fox News.
I am assuming she wasn't raped or anything like that, otherwise her foster parents would know.
Why does that matter? No form of birth control or condom can prevent pregnancies 100% of the time. There is always that chance of it happening.
Fox provides commentary. Medical Science Monitor is an international peer-reviewed scientific journal.
Fox News proves that there is an actual market for intentional misinformation.
hey_monkey
Banned
I should know -- my five month old daughter happened after a busted condom and a Plan B. I chose to have her because I'm married and stable and can afford it. Was nice to have the choice, though.
For all we know, this girl could have been trying not to get pregnant and is now possibly stuck in an even worse situation than her already worse situation.
Devolution
Member
hey_monkey
Banned
And sometimes studies -- even those published in peer-reviewed journals -- get debunked. Like the studies published by these two.
If you know of a way to stop 16 year olds having sex short of locking them, please let us know. Kids have sex, it is a biological imperative, to mix the domains of philosophy and biology.
The way to deal with this is to educate kids so they can make informed decisions, not punish them for being ignorant when the government sponsors that ignorance.
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
If you're saying that only parents can consent for a child to have an abortion, then you're wrong. Guardians also can consent for a child to have an abortion. In this case, the trial court said that meant that the foster parents would have to consent, but it seems more likely the case that (as the dissent emphasized) the Nebraska Department of Health & Human Services would have to consent. If you're pointing out that the Department will not grant or withhold its consent, and that this short-circuits the exceptions normally available, then you're arguing what the dissent argued.
In any event, saying that a person is not mature enough to decide to have an abortion without parental or guardian consent is not the same as saying that a person is not mature enough to have an abortion. The latter implies that the abortion would not be permitted even with parental or guardian consent. That's why I say that the title and summary of the article are misleading. I think it's enough to point that out, though, and don't intend to argue over whether it is or is not misleading, since that's not really what the thread is about.
People want to hear what they want to hear. Both right and left leaning media in the United States caters to a particular audience to attract marketers and/or ratings. None of it is unbiased...not even close. Even when they pretend to keep it real, you get crap like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isMtxbPdvzg
If you want real news--or as close as you're going to get--you have to read the BBC (which has its own problems) or Aljazeera. Our media is crap. Period. All of it.
So at no point should people have sec recreayional but only when they want children? You don't give out many options.
Scofield94941
Member
MTV is saying " HEY thats what we make shows about , bitch."
That is an awfully fine distinction, and one that may be legally relevant, but for the purposes of judging the actions of the Nebraska court, family services, and government, not very important.
TestOfTide
Banned
There's already this bit of brilliance.
But I mean a full length ad just like the Koch brother's ad.
I am sorry, but that is not an excuse. She could have avoided that shitty situation by not having sex at all. Why should we encourage kids to have sex? It is absolutely ridiculous and irresponsible, regardless of whether that sex is safe or not.
People should know the risks and consequences of their actions and they should take responsibility for it. We shouldn't be teaching teenagers that it is ok to have sex all you want and we will give you an abortion if you need it.
Abused by her parents, living with religious foster parents, and in Nebraska. How much sex education do you think she has received?
People have sex. It's not really possible to stop it. The best you can do is educate people about it so they can have it safely. And no, a consequence of sex should never be: "You give up the right to your body if you have a vagina, sorry."
Teenagers often drive while texting, which is dangerous and irresponsible.
Therefore we should make it illegal for teenagers to wear seat belts, as doing so will only encourage them to drive.
hey_monkey
Banned
You're sorry I have a beautiful baby girl? I thought you'd be all pro-baby. But tell me, who's encouraging kids to have sex? Is anyone here advocating that? In schools? Anywhere? Is that really a thing?
I couldn't cosign this any harder. And for fuck's sake, this is a girl who could not legally consent in the first place, but TOO BAD, vagina = life ruined. Shoulda known better. Might as well call her a dumb whore; the "consequences" rhetoric is just the polite version.
I asked this, too. These are the tough questions, see, that require more than rote answers.
Devolution
Member
Creating better circumstances is how to avoid issues of teen pregnancy. Not just yelling at them to keep their legs shut. Some of the places with abstinence sex ed also have a higher teen pregnancy problem, pure coincidence I'm sure.
hey_monkey
Banned
Too difficult.
Also might empower poor people and women, you know. Help them gain a better footing. Can't have that.
Vermillion
Banned
Makes no sense.
Devolution
Member
Bootstraps don't function well as condoms nor chastity belts doe.
Also in Nebraska she's cut off from most contraceptives
Birth control? Got exempted from companies that didn't want it
Morning after pill? Needs a prescription for someone her age. And then she'd be carded anyway. (Strangely, you don't get carded for buying condoms). Then she needs to find a pharmacy that carries it. If she was outside of Omaha, she's fucked for that. Just about every pharmacy outside of the city claims pro life views as a reason for not carrying it. Even inside the city you have to hope someone carries it.
Let's just drop her down the hole, guys. No fucking empathy or compassion for her well being.
Birth control? Got exempted from companies that didn't want it
Morning after pill? Needs a prescription for someone her age. And then she'd be carded anyway. (Strangely, you don't get carded for buying condoms). Then she needs to find a pharmacy that carries it. If she was outside of Omaha, she's fucked for that. Just about every pharmacy outside of the city claims pro life views as a reason for not carrying it. Even inside the city you have to hope someone carries it.
Let's just drop her down the hole, guys. No fucking empathy or compassion for her well being.
hey_monkey
Banned
Two Planned Parenthood clinics in the state. Two.
Well thats one of the more depressing things I've read today. Might have to take a break from GAF tonight, too much feels. I'd hate to be born a girl in Nebraska in the next life. :/
hey_monkey
Banned
Good thing it's a shit situation for women only in Nebraska.
Oh, wait.
:/
Oh, wait.
:/
Are you responding to me? If so, why? I didn't even suggest that.
hey_monkey
Banned
I was agreeing with your wish not to be reborn as a girl in Nebraska and adding on. It's cool, man, we're on the same side here.
Alright.....
Well maybe I should redact my original sentiment and say I wish to not be reborn a girl in any evangelical red state.
Just to clear up any lingering misunderstandings.
hey_monkey
Banned
No misunderstanding. I was probably just not clear.
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