No, I my post kind of came off naive, I just want to make it clear that while I'm disgusted by this individual case in Nebraska, I understand the scope of pro-life/pro-choice issue in the states.
Anyways, I think I've derailed enough.
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Nebraska Supreme Court rules 16-year-old not mature enough for abortion
- Thread starter Dead Man
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No, I my post kind of came off naive, I just want to make it clear that while I'm disgusted by this individual case in Nebraska, I understand the scope of pro-life/pro-choice issue in the states.
Anyways, I think I've derailed enough.
That's only peer pressure.
Have a look at Asia. The only thing officials are worried there in a lot of places is too many.
In that regard, ProLifers are assholes. They raise so much how this will be a big issue, a moral conundrum more difficult than anything else and well, people tend to believe it. When you believe it will be a difficult mental issue, it will be. Self fulfilling prophecy.
Forcing them to pay, even when it was later proven that they are not the actual father. Not allow them to check, if they are actually the father without the mother's approval. And on top of that, follow the mother's choice in case she doesn't want the father (or "father") to see his child. And also: if the couple separates later on, the mother gets custody in most cases. Everything about it is pro-mother and "fuck you" to father.
Oh and in case you aren't married to the mother, she may even give away your child to adoption without your approval. http://www.babyemmawyatt.com/Articles.html I think that's also a big fuck you to fathers.
You could argue that all of this is okay, because well the mother got the child and the father didn't. And yes, that's probably right. But all of this is also punishment for sex, which you asked for.
The Librarian
Banned
Aren't you against free access toward birth control?
she is not sufficiently mature and well informed to decide on her own whether to have an abortion
How does one make that judgement call? What does one base it on? How can these points not be taught or told to a 16 year old?
Further, a court should, imo ideally make judgments based on the aggregate good of society. And what the court rules is that by depriving her off the choice of an abortion, one upholds greater value than the costs raised by locking them into poverty, with the added externalities that this statistically may bring. I fail to see the objective good generated by this decision. This rather sounds like a judgment based on religious values and punishment based judgments regarding unwanted pregnancies and "bad" sexual behavior from unmarried women.
How does one make that judgement call? What does one base it on? How can these points not be taught or told to a 16 year old?
Further, a court should, imo ideally make judgments based on the aggregate good of society. And what the court rules is that by depriving her off the choice of an abortion, one upholds greater value than the costs raised by locking them into poverty, with the added externalities that this statistically may bring. I fail to see the objective good generated by this decision. This rather sounds like a judgment based on religious values and punishment based judgments regarding unwanted pregnancies and "bad" sexual behavior from unmarried women.
hey_monkey
Banned
But there's science proving the mental anguish!
No, I'm just against birth control being paid for with taxpayer funds and being distributed for free. That's not "access to" something, that's forcing one person to pay for something that another wants. I understand the 'pros' to the idea, but it is also a foot in the door of population management. If you want to distribute free birth control yourself, establish a private foundation or something and knock yourself out. George Soros could handle it with his pocket change. I don't care if restaurants put free birth control in a basket at the center of every table. I don't care if gas stations want to offer a free morning after pill with every tank of gas. It's just not a role I think the government should play, for the same reason I don't want the government used to ban abortion.
But you pay for shit that you don't use all the time. Just like how others pay for shit that they don't use but you do. It's a fair system.
And how does it lead to population management? It's just making sure that young girls can get the pill or a plan b if things go bad, and young guys can get condoms. These things save lives and improve livelihoods. It's not the guy who's got to go through 9 months of pregnancy and all the other issues, is it?
There are some who see this simple truth as a justification for limiting the size of government.
There are others who see this as a justification for giving the IRS machine guns.
.
hey_monkey
Banned
At the point that our poorest are having children society has to support, I am all for providing access to and education on optional birth control. If that means I am for population management, so be it.
The Librarian
Banned
So...you want women to have birth control, but you're not willing to make it as accessible as possible? That doesn't make any sense.
By the way, on the subject of "forcing to pay for other people's healthcare" – if somebody doesn't have health insurance but ends up in the hospital, you're already paying for that. That point doesn't make any sense either.
So, if it's legal, it should be "free"? That doesn't make any sense.
The Librarian
Banned
That's a strawman.
No, that's what you're suggesting, that it makes no sense that I should think something should be "legal" and not also be provided to anyone who wants it "for free" after taxpayers have been forced to cover the cost communally.
The Librarian
Banned
I am not suggesting that. Birth control is part of healthcare, healthcare costs are best contained via public bargaining, ergo, everybody should pay for access to birth control because that will enable more women to have it.
Of course, if you don't believe everybody has the right to basic health insurance, or that society shouldn't help its citizens when it comes to healthcare, then there's no point in continuing this discussion.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
I love Nebraska.
One of two Planned parenthood clinics in the state is en route to my brother's house and about half the time we go, i see an old man praying outside of the building. Warms the cockles of my heart.
One of two Planned parenthood clinics in the state is en route to my brother's house and about half the time we go, i see an old man praying outside of the building. Warms the cockles of my heart.
I accept your frustration with the things you mentioned. It's not a perfect system at all. But where is your anger about the father of this girl's child not being anywhere involved in this situation? If men want to use not having rights in childcare as an argument, why aren't you demanding the father access here? Where is he and why aren't we and the Nebraska Supreme Court passing judgement on him? Hell, he should be in the courtroom just as vested in this pregnancy as she is. But as far as I can tell, he's not.
And yet the father still has the right to his own body. I don't think the "punishment" is any way comparable.
And I'd definitely be down for a system in which a father has the opportunity for equal access to the child, barring any legal decision-making power in whether or not the woman keeps the child.
I love Nebraska.
One of two Planned parenthood clinics in the state is en route to my brother's house and about half the time we go, i see an old man praying outside of the building. Warms the cockles of my heart.
Actually, half the time people are spitting at women trying to get care inside and yelling abusive words at them as they go in.
Dude Abides
Banned
It's what Jesus and John Smith would want.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Well, that's wrong.
Abortion is safer than undergoing a pregnancy to full term, both mentally and physically.
Nothing to brighten up your day like people being intimidated from receiving breast exams and prenatal care.
That old man is so heartwarming, hoping a woman doesn't have control over her own body, writing down anyone's license plates that come and give her a ride, getting their information and leaving harassing phone calls and letters at their door.
maniac-kun
Member
So what happens if a 12 year old gets pregnant? She must give birth then?
I love Nebraska.
One of two Planned parenthood clinics in the state is en route to my brother's house and about half the time we go, i see an old man praying outside of the building. Warms the cockles of my heart.
Ew.
TestOfTide
Banned
I don't think I could handle seeing that kind of shit without deciding to sacrifice one of those nutjobs to satan.
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