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[CrystalGemini]

I'm going to art school in the Fall (Interior Design) and I'm looking for a suitable notebook computer to do "work" on during my one hour commute (one way) on BART. I want something compact (12" or less) since I'm going to be moving around a lot with it and I also plan on taking it on trips with me. It also has to be powerful enough to do schoolwork on. I'm leaning towards either an ibook or a Powerbook, but I've also gotten recommendations for Gateway and Dell notebooks. Dell always has those coupons and stuff, but Apple is giving away free mini ipods with purchase (not relevant to schoolwork but HEY it's FREE!).

What do you suggest GAF?! Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in advance. \(^_^)

 

[Lo-Volt]

The good news is that those who use Apple laptops seem to like them very much, and they're both stylish and (more importantly) light, though I've had a love-hate relationship. The best bet, though, is to ask your college or university which programs or requirements they have first. They may prefer one program or OS to another for your classes. They may give you a better recommendation than we could.

 

[Shogmaster]

I'm going to art school in the Fall (Interior Design) and I'm looking for a suitable notebook computer to do "work" on during my one hour commute (one way) on BART. I'm leaning towards either an ibook or a Powerbook, but I've also gotten recommendations for Gateway and Dell notebooks. Dell always has those coupons and stuff, but Apple is giving away free mini ipods with purchase (not relevant to schoolwork but HEY it's FREE!).

What do you suggest GAF?! Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in advance. \(^_^)

Welcome to 2002

I love mine. Give another DIMM (preferably a 1GB stick) and you're rockin' PShop and Painter.

 

[CrystalGemini]

The good news is that those who use Apple laptops seem to like them very much, and they're both stylish and (more importantly) light, though I've had a love-hate relationship. The best bet, though, is to ask your college or university which programs or requirements they have first. They may prefer one program or OS to another for your classes. They may give you a better recommendation than we could.

Registration's coming up in two weeks, so I was planning on asking them then. The school has a contract with Apple, so I'm thinking they're going to suggest the ipod/Powerbook, but it doesn't hurt to ask .

Welcome to 2002

I love mine. Give another DIMM (preferably a 1GB stick) and you're rockin' PShop and Painter.

Yeah! I saw the commercial for that one the other day. I'll look into it. \(^_^) Thanks!

 

[CrystalGemini]

bump

 

[cvxfreak]

An Apple laptop (preferrably a 15" PB for screen real estate) would be my personal pick.

BTW, where in the Bay Area are you? (I assume since you mentioned BART)

Oh yeah, are you going to Academy of Art in SF?

 

[CrystalGemini]

I'm in the East Bay, so yeah BART seems to be the cheaper choice compared to driving then paying a zillion dollars for the parking. (btw, does anybody know the cheapest way to use BART? O_O) I'm going to the Art Institute of CA, SF.

 

[Shogmaster]

Tablet PC = laptop with incorporated Wacom tablets. If that don't scream art school, then I don't know what does.

Unless you have a phobia of PCs (thawed from a frozen sleep since 1991 maybe), or your art school dictates Macs only (a worthless art school), you really have to be crazy to get an underpowered and overpriced PowerBook these days (and certainly not an iBook).

 

[Lhadatt]

Do not listen to Shog, he is teh Anti-Mac.

Macs are good, Powerbooks especially. iBooks are still good, very sturdy construction, better than alot of PC laptops. If 12" is the form factor, then the iBook is probably what you want for the price. Upgrade the RAM to 1 GB, you'll need it to get OSX to run smoothly for Photoshop and all that. Get Applecare (do not argue with me on this, and do not ignore my advice. You will get Applecare, for it is good).

Now, the main problem with Apple's notebook line is the chips have been at around the same speeds they are now for more than a year. Apple can't get PPC chips any faster than what they've got now, which is why they've made a big deal out of switching to Intel. You'll see Intel Macs probably sometime in 2006.

The real reason for you to buy a Mac is the OS - OSX is, in my opinion, enough of a reason to buy, even now with the Intel switch looming. It's easier to use, it handles crashes and oddball program events more gracefully, and it's just overall better than Windows.

On the other hand, you can get some really nice PC laptops. I recommend a Pentium-M Centrino system. Don't get a Celeron. Don't buy Dell. Go Toshiba, Fujitsu, Sager, or Asus. I agree with Shog on the Tablet PC, it might be a good idea for your situation. Try to get a system with a 1.6 or 1.7 P-M chip and 1 GB RAM. Go for a faster hard drive (7200 RPM if you can get it) rather than larger space (40 GB should be enough). DVD burners are good too, see if you can find one with dual layer burning for a decent price. If not, then at least get DVD+R/DVD-R/DVD+RW/DVD-RW - don't get stuck with one format.

 

[Vinzer Deling]

It's easier to use, it handles weird things better, and it's just overall better than Windows.

What are you waiting for? It handles weird things better. POWER BOOK GET!

 

[Lhadatt]

What are you waiting for? It handles weird things better. POWER BOOK GET!

:lol

Yes, I suppose I could put a little more detail into that.

*previous post edit ftw*

 

[Shogmaster]

She isn't looking for a laptop for your regular collage guys. She's looking at one for an art school. Tablet PC incorporate Wacom tablets into the LCDs, and Pentium M is much more powerful for apps like Photoshop and Painter than G4. It's like an art student's dream come true for fuck sakes!

I wish to hell I had access to them when I was in school.

 

[Lhadatt]

She isn't looking for a laptop for your regular collage guys. She's looking at one for an art school. Tablet PC incorporate Wacom tablets into the LCDs, and Pentium M is much more powerful for apps like Photoshop and Painter than G4. It's like an art student's dream come true for fuck sakes!

I wish to hell I had access to them when I was in school.

I know what you're saying, but your terminology is confusing.

The tablets don't necessarily incorporate Wacom devices. The screens utilize digitizers, which are made by other companies than just Wacom. Yes, Wacom does make screen digitizers, but you're confusing the issue. A traditional Wacom tablet is like this, a tablet allowing for artwork placed under the top layer for working from.

Wacom tech is used in quite a few tablets (according to Wacom anyway), but you don't necessarily need Wacom stuff built-in to get the same functionality with a tablet. She might be just fine with a normal laptop, but with a Wacom off to the side if she decides she needs it.

 

[CrystalGemini]

Just to be clear, I'm majoring in Interior Design. During the open house, they seemed to stress that we will be using the program AutoCAD extensively during the program. (I've never heard of AutoCAD before So of course I am completely lost.)

Curriculum

(Offtopic)Shogmaster, did you go to art school too?

 

[Ollie Pooch]

well - i just yesterday got a 12" ibook (the base one) to use as second machine for photoshop/illustrator (wisely turfed my year-old toshiba satellite a30 - windows fucking blows). the battery life is fantastic, but as shog said the cpu isn't too hot - a pentium M might be better depending on the software you'll be using. dunno how useful a tablet pc is going to be for you studying architecture though

the main reason for me switching (from a desktop to a g5 and my satellite to the ibook) is cos of OSX - it's worth switching IMO, my workflow has improved dramatically (due to spotlight mainly), and it makes XP look pretty archaic.

edit : ok well you slightly edited your post as i was typing this - afaik isnt autoCAD only on windows? i actually have no idea.. to google!

edit 2 : it looks like it ain't available for OSX - not certain, but yeh.. i think an XP machine is looking more appropriate atm

 

[CrystalGemini]

edit : ok well you slightly edited your post as i was typing this - afaik isnt autoCAD only on windows? i actually have no idea.. to google!

Yeah, sorry about that. I have no idea about what AutoCAD runs on. I think it should run on Apple computers though because those are the only computers the A.I. has. O_O I honestly don't even know what AutoCAD does.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

hmm weird - maybe it does run on apple machines.. prob best to confirm that though, and ignore me

 

[Shogmaster]

I know what you're saying, but your terminology is confusing.

The tablets don't necessarily incorporate Wacom devices. The screens utilize digitizers, which are made by other companies than just Wacom. Yes, Wacom does make screen digitizers, but you're confusing the issue. A traditional Wacom tablet is like this, a tablet allowing for artwork placed under the top layer for working from.

Please don't try to lecture me about Wacom tablets. I know far more about them than you, trust me.

Tablets PC spec only specified active digitiser with greater 100 samples per second, and ability to hover. There are only handful of digitiser OEMs that fullfill this spec. Even though there were as many as 3 venders that provided digitizers for Tablet PCs, only two are right now providing them: Wacom and UC-Logic. And do you know how many current models of tablet PCs use the UC-Logic one? Just one (Averatec C3500). That mean all other current TPCs use Wacom's UD series based digitizers. That's why I just plainly say TPCs have Wacom digitizers. It's practically all of them now except for the C3500 (which is a shitty shitty device).

Wacom tech is used in quite a few tablets (according to Wacom anyway), but you don't necessarily need Wacom stuff built-in to get the same functionality with a tablet. She might be just fine with a normal laptop, but with a Wacom off to the side if she decides she needs it.

The whole point of incorporating tablets into the LCD is to be able to draw where you look. That's a huge difference between something like a Graphire and Cintiqs/TPCs.

(Offtopic)Shogmaster, did you go to art school too?

I went to CCS in Detroit, studying Transportation Design (part of Industrial Design curriculum), but that was way back in the last century.

 

[Vinzer Deling]

Yeah, sorry about that. I have no idea about what AutoCAD runs on. I think it should run on Apple computers though because those are the only computers the A.I. has. O_O I honestly don't even know what AutoCAD does.

AutoCAD is a computer-aided drafting for 2-dimensional drawings. I've used it since Release 12 on Windows 3.1 on a 486. It's nothing like photoshop if that's what you're expecting, it's very technical. They emphasis the use of keyed commands instead of the mouse. It's kinda like using DOS to play connect the dots.

 

[Wraith]

The problem with a tablet is that I seem to see a lot of dead zones develop on the screen after a period of time. If you go Tablet then it might just be worth getting the extended warranty, imo.

 

[Lhadatt]

WTF DONT LECTURE ME I YAM COMPUTAR GOD

Good for you.

Thanks for the elaboration, that's actually good to know. You seemed to be waving a nuke around with your "omg tablet" stuff though, which is why I posted a note of caution after looking at the Wacom stuff for a moment. I'd rather err on the side of making sure the user gets what she needs, rather than forcing a solution down her throat.

 

[ChennehCis]

Go for Dell 700m

Light, 12" Widescreen, with great battery life (choose the 8 cell battery for 4-5 hours of life)

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=i700mS1&s=dhs

Use this coupon code for 35% off. GV8NGST6PF0DMJ

OR

Use this coupon for 750 off $1899 off. CMJV4FPX60BVWM

With the 35% off coupon you can get a Dell 700m for around $750.

If you really want to maximize savings, go to fleabay and buy Dell Coupons that could stack with this

Hope that helps

 

[Drey1082]

I just bought a cheap ibook G4 12" to see what this apple hoopla is all about, and I really like it. It's my first apple, and it's a solid laptop. I'm posting from it right now.

 

[Lhadatt]

ChennehCis: Nice price, but it might fall apart too quickly. Dell doesn't put much care into alot of their stuff. :\

Here's a Fujitsu BD6110D. Best of both worlds - 12.1" clamshell laptop with touch screen. $1700. Might be a bit much for a 1.2 GHz P-M, but you can probably find it cheaper at Fry's or some other store.

Some convertable Fujitsu laptops. Tablet to clamshell and back again. Probably one of the best options from a usability standpoint. P-M 1.7 GHz, so it's quick. Pricey though, $1600 - $2150. If you go with one of these, get the lower priced option and stick more RAM in it later.

Shog, what do you think of Fujitsu?

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

When it comes to notebook processors, does AMD still have the cost/performance edge over intel?

I know jack about the Sempron/Pentium-M/Pentium 4/Celeron/Centrino processors

With the little knowledge I have, it just seems to me that Dell generally offers the best value for laptops/desktops, but a lot of people don't seem to like them for whatever reason. Not saying they're wrong...I'm just saying I don't know the difference from one brand to the other. Specs are specs, right?

 

[Shogmaster]

ChennehCis: Nice price, but it might fall apart too quickly. Dell doesn't put much care into alot of their stuff. :\

Here's a Fujitsu BD6110D. Best of both worlds - 12.1" clamshell laptop with touch screen. $1700. Might be a bit much for a 1.2 GHz P-M, but you can probably find it cheaper at Fry's or some other store.

Some convertable Fujitsu laptops. Tablet to clamshell and back again. Probably one of the best options from a usability standpoint. P-M 1.7 GHz, so it's quick. Pricey though, $1600 - $2150. If you go with one of these, get the lower priced option and stick more RAM in it later.

Shog, what do you think of Fujitsu?

Fujitsu makes a very nice 12" SXGA screened TabPC (one track mind! ) with built in optical drive on a sub 5lbs package: The T4000

 

[CrystalGemini]

As far as pricing goes, I'm just looking for the best bang for the buck (parents are buying ). I don't want to spend all their retirement money on this, especially since they've paid for the last three years of college for me already (ex-business student).

Thanks a lot for all your help so far, guys!

 

[CrystalGemini]

AutoCAD is a computer-aided drafting for 2-dimensional drawings. I've used it since Release 12 on Windows 3.1 on a 486. It's nothing like photoshop if that's what you're expecting, it's very technical. They emphasis the use of keyed commands instead of the mouse. It's kinda like using DOS to play connect the dots.

Thanks for clearing that up... O_O I was actually expecting something a lot like Photoshop...

 

[Vinzer Deling]

if they're emphasizing Autocad then you're gonna have to get a PC.. Autodesk doesn't make AutoCAD for Mac.. something about 3% marketshare.. :lol

 

[Animal]

I bought a dell laptop and it runs autocad and everything else for that matter no problemo.I play Half-life 2 and world of warcraft on this bad boy.

 

[CrystalGemini]

if they're emphasizing Autocad then you're gonna have to get a PC.. Autodesk doesn't make AutoCAD for Mac.. something about 3% marketshare.. :lol

Crap...I guess no ibook/Powerbook/free mini ipod for me...

 

[CrystalGemini]

I bought a dell laptop and it runs autocad and everything else for that matter no problemo.I play Half-life 2 and world of warcraft on this bad boy.

What model? O_O My sister has an Inspirion 6000, but she only uses it for AIM and pictures...

 

[Shogmaster]

Crap...I guess no ibook/Powerbook/free mini ipod for me...

It wasn't like the buy iBook/Powerbook and get a iPod mini free was a great deal anyways. For the money of iBook, you can get a much more powerful Pentium M system with XGA screens and for the money of PowerBook, you can get a much more powerful P-M system with SXGA screens and have enough money left over to buy a iPod Mini with the savings.

G4 proc was getting way too slow to compete with Intel and AMD procs for Photoshop and Painter anyways, so this worked out for you in the end.

 

[mrkgoo]

It wasn't like the buy iBook/Powerbook and get a iPod mini free was a great deal anyways. For the money of iBook, you can get a much more powerful Pentium M system with XGA screens and for the money of PowerBook, you can get a much more powerful P-M system with SXGA screens and have enough money left over to buy a iPod Mini with the savings.

G4 proc was getting way too slow to compete with Intel and AMD procs for Photoshop and Painter anyways, so this worked out for you in the end.

Hey Shog, just curious...have you ever bougth anything flamboyant, just because you thought it was neat? Ha, I kid. I realise computers are quite an investment to make, so it's wise to get the most for your money. But at teh same time, designers cost too, especially top notch ones like the ones at Apple. Maybe. Anyway, all I needed was something nice, small, and wordprocessor/internet capable (and preferably Unix capable), so PB was an alright choice.

I recent;y got a PowerBook, and have to say I am extremely pleased with it. After making the switch, I can't imagine ever going back. But having said that, I'm not much of a computery person, and wouldn't know the first place to consider good parts. Not that Apple necessarily use teh best, but at least it's consistent (for now anyway).

And just for kicks, the recently updated iBook isn't that far a cry away from teh powerbooks, especially the 12"PB, which has got to be the worst value now.

CrystalGemini: Sounds like for your needs, an Apple wouldn't really suit - if you really want performance and value, Apple is not really the way to go.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

mrkgoo - same reasons i picked up the 12" ibook. im willing to take a drop in performance for the cost to get a better OS. after switching to osx, going back to a windows machine fills me with murderous rage - the mac seems so much more fluid and intuitive, and it doesn''t feel like im fighting against it all the time to get what i want done. but that's just me.

but yeah, apple def aint the way to go for crystalgemini. if i could afford it i'd also get one of those tablet pc things that shog has posted (despite them being xp based) just to fuck about with it - i have a wacom tablet, but painting on the screen would be pretty awesome

 

[Shogmaster]

Hey Shog, just curious...have you ever bougth anything flamboyant, just because you thought it was neat?

You mean like a laptop with a rotating screen that you can write on?

Ha, I kid. I realise computers are quite an investment to make, so it's wise to get the most for your money. But at teh same time, designers cost too, especially top notch ones like the ones at Apple. Maybe. Anyway, all I needed was something nice, small, and wordprocessor/internet capable (and preferably Unix capable), so PB was an alright choice.

I recent;y got a PowerBook, and have to say I am extremely pleased with it. After making the switch, I can't imagine ever going back. But having said that, I'm not much of a computery person, and wouldn't know the first place to consider good parts. Not that Apple necessarily use teh best, but at least it's consistent (for now anyway).

And just for kicks, the recently updated iBook isn't that far a cry away from teh powerbooks, especially the 12"PB, which has got to be the worst value now.

CrystalGemini: Sounds like for your needs, an Apple wouldn't really suit - if you really want performance and value, Apple is not really the way to go.

If she was a normal college student, I wouldn't object too much to iBook/Powerbook recommendations, especially if the person was leaning towards them in the first place. It's just that since she is going to art school, it would be tragic if she didn't try out a Tablet PC.

 

[mrkgoo]

mrkgoo - same reasons i picked up the 12" ibook. im willing to take a drop in performance for the cost to get a better OS. after switching to osx, going back to a windows machine fills me with murderous rage - the mac seems so much more fluid and intuitive, and it doesn''t feel like im fighting against it all the time to get what i want done. but that's just me.

but yeah, apple def aint the way to go for crystalgemini. if i could afford it i'd also get one of those tablet pc things that shog has posted (despite them being xp based) just to fuck about with it - i have a wacom tablet, but painting on the screen would be pretty awesome

Yeah - actually, when I was looking for a new computer, and considered a Mac, I kept thinking - will I like it? Or will I just get annoyed at its differences? Turned out all right...for Steve's Jobs' wallet! I'm now a total convert. :/ Even bought a mighty mouse...

I wouldn't say the MacOSX is leagues ahead of XP, but it is more simple, and sometimes more intuitive, but mostly it's just different (and some ways, not so different - I don't care who did what first). Still, it's sexy looking.

Then again, I was upgrading from a PII 233 with 64 MB RAM, 3G HD, running Win98, so anything I got would've seemed amazing. Tabbed browsing is particularly good.

 

[mrkgoo]

You mean like a laptop with a rotating screen that you can write on?

haha, good poitn!

If she was a normal college student, I wouldn't object too much to iBook/Powerbook recommendations, especially if the person was leaning towards them in the first place. It's just that since she is going to art school, it would be tragic if she didn't try out a Tablet PC.

Yeah, that's basically me, except I wanted to run some Unix-y software. Yeah, I could've gone for a Linux machine, but Mac also seemed a way easier alternative.

 

[Sumidor]

Yeah, sorry about that. I have no idea about what AutoCAD runs on. I think it should run on Apple computers though because those are the only computers the A.I. has. O_O I honestly don't even know what AutoCAD does.

That's surprising that AI only runs apples down there. AIP (portland) Has about equal amount of PCs and Macs. Most of the ID and DMP students are on the PC using AutoCAD and rendering programs.

I spend a major amount of time at the school's computer labs (4-5 in total) working on projects. Most of the students use the school's labs since getting a good enough computer + the price of the programs it gets quite expensive. Also all the computers have WACOM tablets on them. So that's another 300 dollars to not spend.

If you want to go all the way, i'd suggest a PC with at least a P4 and 1gig of ram and a fast harddrive.

If you will do your work at school, i'd go with something small and light. i mostly use my Powerbook and sometimes my Toshiba. Both small and light. using them for a lot of powerpoint presentations, papers and quick photoshop jobs.

 

[CrystalGemini]

That's surprising that AI only runs apples down there. AIP (portland) Has about equal amount of PCs and Macs. Most of the ID and DMP students are on the PC using AutoCAD and rendering programs.

I spend a major amount of time at the school's computer labs (4-5 in total) working on projects. Most of the students use the school's labs since getting a good enough computer + the price of the programs it gets quite expensive. Also all the computers have WACOM tablets on them. So that's another 300 dollars to not spend.

If you want to go all the way, i'd suggest a PC with at least a P4 and 1gig of ram and a fast harddrive.

If you will do your work at school, i'd go with something small and light. i mostly use my Powerbook and sometimes my Toshiba. Both small and light. using them for a lot of powerpoint presentations, papers and quick photoshop jobs.

I could be wrong about the Apple computers. It just doesn't make sense if AutoCAD doesn't run on Macs.... I haven't been to all the floors of the building yet, so there could be a lab I haven't seen yet with PCs. O_O Anyway, what are you majoring in?

 

[Sumidor]

I could be wrong about the Apple computers. It just doesn't make sense if AutoCAD doesn't run on Macs.... I haven't been to all the floors of the building yet, so there could be a lab I haven't seen yet with PCs. O_O Anyway, what are you majoring in?

Graphic Design or Advertising, taking the shared classes that let me decide down the road.

 

[CrystalGemini]

Graphic Design or Advertising, taking the shared classes that let me decide down the road.

Awesome. I'm just getting out of Business with and option in Advertising. I was split between taking Graphic Design and Interior Design but decided on I.D. because it seems more "hands on".

 

[CrystalGemini]

Sorry to bump an ancient thread, but the head of the ID department finally got back to me about her suggestion on what notebook computer to get which was basically "get the best bang for your buck- definitely PC, not Mac, nothing fancy, with the best processor you can get." O_O

And again, I'd like to thank everybody for all their input. Despite what they told me about not getting a tablet PC or anything "fancy", I'd still think it'd be nice to have... (And also,FYI, I am and idiot because, yeah, there IS a PC lab at school >_<.)