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[RoadHazard]

Whelp,
http://www.gp.se/nyheter/göteborg/n...rextremister-i-bussar-till-göteborg-1.4675342

Saturday is going to be terrible..

Yes, this is what I'm talking about. These people are coming here to fight. They want violence and chaos. And listen, I DON'T GIVE A SHIT if a bunch of nazis get punched in the face. They have it coming, and probably want the violence just as much. But this mess will not only affect those directly involved in the violence. The risk of innocent peaceful protestors (if they even dare show up given how this will likely turn out) being caught in the middle is high, there will likely be property damage, police resources will be taken from more useful things, etc. People might die. If it were just NMR marching by themselves (as shitty as that is), with peaceful protestors standing up to them non-violently, it would be a more calm affair. Now we'll have war on our streets on Saturday, between two groups full of violent fucking idiots.

 

[Auctopus]

Something tells me people who post stuff like this would probably not engage with a crowd of marching neo nazis

Exactly my thought, hahaha

 

[Cybit]

It's more of a lecturing an American on the state of political extremism in Sweden. But don't let that stop you from making weird generalisations about "gaf".

Funny, I don't think

Guys, he's just asking questions.

🙄🙄🙄

That is "lecturing" anyone about the state of political extremism in Sweden.

When he's dipping his head into the politics of a country that by his own admission he knows nothing about, of course it's okay not to let that lame both-sides narrative slide.

That's fine, but you have people straight up implying he's a Nazi. Because the knee jerk reaction to condemn anyone who is not 100% in lockstep is so swift and strong and completely devoid of actual context or intelligent thought for more than a second.

Also, stay safe Sweden-GAF - that does not look like it is going to end well.

On his Facebook page, ARNA representatives also state that they should have been contacted by the police and Säpo prior to the Göteborg demonstration. ARNA then urges its supporters not to cooperate and end with the words "fuck the police".

 

[berzeli]

Yes, this is what I'm talking about. These people are coming here to fight. They want violence and chaos. And listen, I DON'T GIVE A SHIT if a bunch of nazis get punched in the face. They have it coming, and probably want the violence just as much. But this mess will not only affect those directly involved in the violence. The risk of innocent peaceful protestors (if they even dare show up given how this will likely turn out) being caught in the middle is high, there will likely be property damage, police resources will be taken from more useful things, etc. People might die. If it were just NMR marching by themselves (as shitty as that is), with peaceful protestors standing up to them non-violently, it would be a more calm affair. Now we'll have war on our streets on Saturday, between two groups full of violent fucking idiots.

Yet again, this is NMR, they don't probably want the violence, they definitely want the violence. Why even give them that small benefit of the doubt?

The busses were known at the time when the police made their estimate of 200-400 violent leftist extremists, so it's not quite as "Whelp"-worthy as 54-46! made it out to be. I do hope they do what Norway did with the Swedish nazis who tried to go there and stop them at the border.
It is looking like it could have the makings of a shitshow for sure, and it's a bit unclear why they don't spread out the demonstrations like in the 90s. But I still don't see the equation of the two groups to be a good way of discussing this.

Funny, I don't think
That is "lecturing" anyone about the state of political extremism in Sweden.

Funny, I don't think what I was doing counted as lecturing a Jew about nazis. But was that not included in your generalisation of gaf? And let's be clear he was way off base with his comments.

 

[Cybit]

Yet again, this is NMR, they don't probably want the violence, they definitely want the violence. Why even give them that small benefit of the doubt?

The busses were known at the time when the police made their estimate of 200-400 violent leftist extremists, so it's not quite as "Whelp"-worthy as 54-46! made it out to be. I do hope they do what Norway did with the Swedish nazis who tried to go there and stop them at the border.
It is looking like it could have the makings of a shitshow for sure, and it's a bit unclear why they don't spread out the demonstrations like in the 90s. But I still don't see the equation of the two groups to be a good way of discussing this.

Funny, I don't think what I was doing counted as lecturing a Jew about nazis. But was that not included in your generalisation of gaf? And let's be clear he was way off base with his comments.

Referring to the "he's just asking questions" comment - that's used to call someone a bigot or a nazi here.

 

[RoadHazard]

Yet again, this is NMR, they don't probably want the violence, they definitely want the violence. Why even give them that small benefit of the doubt?

Yes, but I'm saying that if there's nobody there who wants to physically fight them it's less likely to descend into chaos. Now it almost certainly will. The violent left people joining the party will only make a bad situation worse.

But I still don't see the equation of the two groups to be a good way of discussing this.

Saying two groups can both fuck off is not the same as equating them. One is trash, the other is even worse, both are scum that the world would be better off without.

 

[Dan-o]

I guess pewdiepie is having a fan meetup.

No, they're just going to be there "ironically."

 

[Oersted]

Referring to the "he's just asking questions" comment - that's used to call someone a bigot or a nazi here.

If it eases your pain, I considered him to be a useful idiot.

Yes, but I'm saying that if there's nobody there who wants to physically fight them it's less likely to descend into chaos. Now it almost certainly will. The violent left people joining the party will only make a bad situation worse.



Saying two groups can both fuck off is not the same as equating them. One is garbage, the other is even worse, both are scum.

It looks... icky when a violent Neo-Nazi terror organization automatically invokes a "but both sides"

 

[RoadHazard]

If it eases your pain, I considered him to be a useful idiot.



It looks... icky when a violent Neo-Nazi terror organization automatically invokes a "but both sides"

Automatically? Did you read this? http://www.gp.se/nyheter/göteborg/n...rextremister-i-bussar-till-göteborg-1.4675342

All my comments were based on this (the article is from earlier today). In case you don't read Swedish I'll translate the first paragraph:

Foreign left extremists prepare for confrontation. GP can reveal that fully loaded buses are coming to Gothenburg for the nazi demonstration. With images of bengal lights and masks they are invited to come fight the nazis.

They are coming to cause chaos. Again, they and the nazis can both fuck off.

I really don't understand what's so controversial about not wanting any of these people from either side to come and fuck shit up on the streets of my city.

 

[berzeli]

Referring to the "he's just asking questions" comment - that's used to call someone a bigot or a nazi here.

Ok, so it was just one comment/person? Why did you say "a bunch of non Jews" then?

Coming in to a thread and making some erroneous accusations about the anti fascists that did end up in whataboutism territory (i.e. "Do you not see that the hammer and sickle is also a disgusting brand to advertise?"), doesn't really look good.

Yes, but I'm saying that if there's nobody there who wants to physically fight them it's less likely to descend into chaos. Now it almost certainly will. The violent left people joining the party will only make a bad situation worse.

Saying two groups can both fuck off is not the same as equating them. One is trash, the other is even worse, both are scum that the world would be better off without.

Fair enough, but yet again it comes across as weird when you say that NMR probably wants the same violence that AFA wants. That implies that AFA is more violent which is not accurate when talking about fucking NMR.

But you have tried to equate them? When I pointed out how violent NMR is your response essentially said AFA is the same.

 

[RoadHazard]

Fair enough, but yet again it comes across as weird when you say that NMR probably wants the same violence that AFA wants. That implies that AFA is more violent which is not accurate when talking about fucking NMR.

But you have tried to equate them? When I pointed out how violent NMR is your response essentially said AFA is the same.

I was talking about their desire for violence and chaos. In that sense both groups are pretty similar. But their twisted perspectives are obviously based on different ideologies, and there NMR wins the shittiness contest for sure.

 

[Oersted]

Automatically? Did you read this? http://www.gp.se/nyheter/göteborg/n...rextremister-i-bussar-till-göteborg-1.4675342

All my comments were based on this (the article is from earlier today). In case you don't read Swedish I'll translate the first paragraph:



They are coming to cause chaos. Again, they and the nazis can both fuck off.

I really don't understand what's so controversial about not wanting any of these people from either side to come and fuck shit up on the streets of my city.

Yes, automatically. The problem is a violent Neo-Nazi terror organization, with a history of violently attacking counterprotestors, committing terrorattacks and murdering people.

Get over it.

 

[RoadHazard]

Yes, automatically. The problem is a violent Neo-Nazi terror organization, with a history of violently attacking counterprotestors, committing terrorattacks and murdering people.

Get over it.

They are A problem. Violent left extremism is another. One problem being worse than another does not mean the latter isn't one.

 

[Oersted]

They are A problem. Violent left extremists are another. One problem being worse than another does not mean the latter isn't one.

You are unable to condemn violent Neo-Nazis without pulling a "but both sides are shit".

 

[Cybit]

If it eases your pain, I considered him to be a useful idiot.



It looks... icky when a violent Neo-Nazi terror organization automatically invokes a "but both sides"

Fair. That does make me feel better.

It also sounds like the groups coming to "counter-protest" are straight up anarchist groups actually spoiling for a fight rather than counter-protestors per se. Does this usually end OK out there or does it get as, uh, insane as it can get sometimes in the US?

 

[Oersted]

Fair. That does make me feel better.

It also sounds like the groups coming to "counter-protest" are straight up anarchist groups actually spoiling for a fight rather than counter-protestors per se. Does this usually end OK out there or does it get as, uh, insane as it can get sometimes in the US?

You mean a Neo-Nazi driving into them?

 

[RoadHazard]

You are unable to condemn to condemn violent Neo-Nazis without pulling a "but both sides are shit".

Why wouldn't I talk about both sides when a clash between them is gonna cause havoc and destruction on Saturday? Yes, the base problem is that these fuckwads are planning this demonstration in the first place, but these other people with itchy fists coming to join the party is only going to make things even worse.

 

[54-46!]

Fair. That does make me feel better.

It also sounds like the groups coming to "counter-protest" are straight up anarchist groups actually spoiling for a fight rather than counter-protestors per se. Does this usually end OK out there or does it get as, uh, insane as it can get sometimes in the US?

Look up EU Summit 2001 riots.

 

[Oersted]

Why wouldn't I talk about both sides when a clash between them is gonna cause havoc and destruction on Saturday? Yes, the base problem is that these fuckwads are planning this demonstration in the first place, but these other people with itchy fists coming to join the party is only going to make things even worse.

These fuckwads with itchy fists. Please use the correct term.

 

[mlclmtckr]

Antifa brandishes the hammer and sickle—a regime that killed millions of people. It’s ironic no one sees that symbol as being the same or worse than the nazi symbol. Antifa can turn into something much worse than they are now if they keep getting power.

Just so we're clear, a lot of the alt right and white supremacists online are now pivoting to "anti-communism" as a watchword for fascist ideology. Unsurprisingly the original Nazis did this as well. "Anticom" is the latest branding of the fascist movement.

Also, antifa are not, like, as a rule revolutionary communists. It's ridiculous to even try to imply that antifa is somehow going to "gain power" and start putting people in gulags. It's incredibly disingenuous to pretend to be concerned that's going to happen.

 

[RoadHazard]

These fuckwads with itchy fists. Please use the correct term.

You're right, my apologies.

But while you think I'm icky for criticizing both groups and not just NMR, I think it's pretty icky that you seem to consider the violence-seeking members of AFA to be good, upstanding citizens, since you refuse to acknowledge them as a problem. I'd hope that most decent people would condemn both groups.

 

[Cybit]

You mean a Neo-Nazi driving into them?

That is sadly a significant downgrade from the violence you would generally see -
Greensboro in '76 for example. There are also protests like Seattle in 99, LA post Rodney King, etc.

 

[Staf]

I'm staying the fuck put on my island, Hisingen, drinking whisky and ignore this whole fucking shit on saturday.

 

[charsace]

No matter how far humanity advances a large portion of us will be stupid.

 

[Aske]

No matter how far humanity advances a large portion of us will be stupid.

And a significant percentage will be violent. As has been pointed out, Nazism is inherently violent. Even in its most benign and palatable form, it's inherently racially prejudicial and discriminatory. Antifa is not inherently violent, but of course it attracts violent zealots like almost any other cause promoting a strong and specific moral assertion.

Remember that recent news story about three neo-Nazi roommates? One converted to Islam, and then murdered the other two. That young man's violence wasn't born of ideology: ideology was a means to focus his violence.

One issue is an antisocial ideology that promotes division along racial lines at best, and genocide at worst. The other issue is that of violent young men who look for gangs to join, and justify their desire for violence with righteous indignation. These social problems overlap, but they're also distinct from one another.

Let's not talk at cross-purposes. Those in the thread expressing concern due to the second problem do not diminish or oppose those focusing on the first one.

 

[Ozigizo]

Funny, I don't think



That is "lecturing" anyone about the state of political extremism in Sweden.



That's fine, but you have people straight up implying he's a Nazi. Because the knee jerk reaction to condemn anyone who is not 100% in lockstep is so swift and strong and completely devoid of actual context or intelligent thought for more than a second.

Also, stay safe Sweden-GAF - that does not look like it is going to end well.

But I'm Jewish. Lol at your shitty assumptions.

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

That's why it is always funny when i see it here. I always have to fight the urge to go Yeah bruh how many Nazis you punched recently? Or ever?

Well I guess it depends on the Nazi, You don't want to go around punching Aryan Brotherhood members because they will actually murder you. A neckbeard that rides public transport is probably a safe bet.

 

[Jumeira]

Spreading hatred and promoting discrimination isnt a right. Close this down.

 

[ChainedMaster]

Why are people bringing up Pewdiepie? Are people still raging over the N word? Or did he do something actually Nazi-like?

 

[Lois_Lane]

Why are people bringing up Pewdiepie? Are people still raging over the N word? Or did he do something actually Nazi-like?

paid a guy to dress up as hitler

 

[Paganmoon]

On the topic of "undisturbed" NMR rally not ending in violence:

https://translate.google.se/transla...for-valdet-i-nmrs-demonstrationer/&edit-text=

Google-translate article about the violence of NMR during demonstrations.

Shit wouldn't have been peaceful even without the counter protestors.

Why are people bringing up Pewdiepie? Are people still raging over the N word? Or did he do something actually Nazi-like?

Raging over the n-word? yeah, it's soooo last week right.
wtf?

paid a guy to dress up as hitler

paid people to hold a sign saying "death to all jews" and a few more things as well.

 

[mlclmtckr]

Why are people bringing up Pewdiepie? Are people still raging over the N word? Or did he do something actually Nazi-like?

yeah racial slurs have nothing to do with the most famous racist in human history

 

[IrishNinja]

team #bothsides even found its way here, bless up

Why are people bringing up Pewdiepie? Are people still raging over the N word? Or did he do something actually Nazi-like?

yeah man, the n-word is cool now, let it go guys

 

[Keasar]

The American Embassy is warning people to stay away from Göteborg on Saturday.
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/amerikanska-ambassaden-varnar-for-demonstrationen

Kammarrätten (Court of Appeal) also shorten the Nazi demonstration with an hour and also halves their route.
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/tiden-for-nazistdemonstrationen-forkortas

Saturday is gonna be interesting.

 

[Rayis]

Do we know if Pewdiepie is joining them?

 

[astroturfing]

60 eh? 60 000 counter-protesters should show up.

neonazis should feel way more afraid of the rest of society, they should NOT feel confident enough to gather publicly.

these fucking assholes would genocide other groups of people if they could, they should simply not be allowed to be a visible part of any society in 2017.

 

[Drinkel]

It seems like it will be a scary day. I'm going to be there for the counterprotests anyway, don't really know what else there is to do honestly.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Jesus fuck, don't "both sides" this... Even during the riots of 2001, shit was stirred up by neo-nazi fucks (while taking refuge behind police lines) to rile up the left.

The fighting subgroup of these counter-protesters are still undisputedly better people than even "non-violent" nazi fucks.

I understand that you're probably American but in some European countries there actually are incredibly violent groups on the left. If you think this is a good thing, good on you but some people don't want their town centers turned into a war between two groups spoiling for a fight, even if one of them is ideologically disgraceful.

I mean, I obviously don't support violence but its against Nazis and I'm not the one doing it so its more that I'm not disagreeing than I'm agreeing with the methods.

So people aren't 'both sides' here.

 

[zoukka]

What the fuck? How is this piece of shit free?

Nordics.

 

[Keasar]

A quick translation of the SVT article describing who the NMR are:

Origin: The Nordic Resistance Movement, NMR, was formed in 1997 with activists from White Aryan Resistance. NMR is also a political party, and through the Swedish Democrats open lists it took seats in both Ludvika and Borlänge City Council in 2014.

Ideology: NMR claims that the white race is dying due to immigration in Sweden. A state institute should be set up to assess "race" and those who are not "ethnic northern Europeans" should be returned where they have their roots. People who criticize this mindset are seen as traitors of the people, something that politicians and journalists has been called. Traitors should be sentenced to special tribunals and be able to be punished with death, according to the NMR Party Program. Swedish democracy is not accepted and Sweden is considered occupied by a "Jewish conspiracy".

Violence: More than half of the known activists have been convicted of crimes and a quarter of them have been sentenced to imprisonment.

"They invite members, among other things, to wear knives and, for example, they do not hold back for using them against opponents," says Jonathan Leman, at the magazine Expo.

Growth: According to Christer Mattsson at the Segerstedt Institute at Göteborg University, the number of members increases and according to SÄPO, the activities increase. There are no exact figures for the number of members, but they are expected to be a few hundred across the country.

"Without a doubt, they have grown very strong for ten years. And the biggest growth is the last five years. What we see happening right now is probably just the beginning of a new wave of violence in Sweden, says Christer Mattsson.

Should give a perspective why these fuckers needs to be stopped.

 

[CornBurrito]

I'm sure they are very fine people who don't mean any violence if they end up rising to power. Nazism as we know is capable of peacefully exterminating inferior races.

Hopefully no mean Antifa show up and practice REAL violence by preemptively fighting against those who would attempt genocide.

 

[berzeli]

I understand that you're probably American but in some European countries there actually are incredibly violent groups on the left. If you think this is a good thing, good on you but some people don't want their town centers turned into a war between two groups spoiling for a fight, even if one of them is ideologically disgraceful.

I mean, I obviously don't support violence but its against Nazis and I'm not the one doing it so its more that I'm not disagreeing than I'm agreeing with the methods.

So people aren't 'both sides' here.

Paganmoon is Swedish.

And I don't think anyone is particularly interested in defending the "honour" of AFA, back in 2012-2013 or so some chapters committed several violent crimes for instance. A lot of them are shitheads.
But as has repeatedly been pointed out by now, NMR is an incredibly violent group and they're nearing the 90s levels of violence (and for reference, the 90s got real bad at points). They don't need counter-protesters to be violent, and insisting that "hey maybe things are as bad on the left" when there is no evidence supporting that claim is not useful for anyone.

 

[Martinski43]

I am also going to the Ghost gig tomorrow. This BS better not get in my way of that or i will be fucking pissed. Go take your dumb shit in some field and fight it out as well.

 

[Paganmoon]

I understand that you're probably American but in some European countries there actually are incredibly violent groups on the left. If you think this is a good thing, good on you but some people don't want their town centers turned into a war between two groups spoiling for a fight, even if one of them is ideologically disgraceful.

I mean, I obviously don't support violence but its against Nazis and I'm not the one doing it so its more that I'm not disagreeing than I'm agreeing with the methods.

So people aren't 'both sides' here.

Paganmoon is Swedish.

And I don't think anyone is particularly interested in defending the "honour" of AFA, back in 2012-2013 or so some chapters committed several violent crimes for instance. A lot of them are shitheads.
But as has repeatedly been pointed out by now, NMR is an incredibly violent group and they're nearing the 90s levels of violence (and for reference, the 90s got real bad at points). They don't need counter-protesters to be violent, and insisting that "hey maybe things are as bad on the left" when there is no evidence supporting that claim is not useful for anyone.

Yeah, I'm Swedish and from the city where this rally is being held, and was in the city back in the 2001 riots as well. Still think an Antifa shithead is better than a Nazi shithead, whilst not saying they're good.

On my walk home from work today, a short walk of about 10 minutes, I've seen 4 regular police vans and 2 Piket (SWAT), seems they're already making preparations.

 

[Aske]

Yeah, I'm Swedish and from the city where this rally is being held, and was in the city back in the 2001 riots as well. Still think an Antifa shithead is better than a Nazi shithead, whilst not saying they're good.

On my walk home from work today, a short walk of about 10 minutes, I've seen 4 regular police vans and 2 Piket (SWAT), seems they're already making preparations.

Agreed - all else being equal, at least you know the Antifa shithead isn't also racist.

Stay safe man.

 

[ChainedMaster]

yeah racial slurs have nothing to do with the most famous racist in human history

Oh look, a bunch of people are attacking me. Well I'll explain why I don't think harping over it is ideal. I don't consider things said during "the heat of the moment" to be indicative of their actual sentiment. I know it might be hard to believe, but many people do curse or swear or blurt things they don't mean when they're angry. So no, I don't think he's necessarily a racist for saying that and I especially don't think he's a Nazi for saying that.

 

[Ozigizo]

Oh look, a bunch of people are attacking me. Well I'll explain why I don't think harping over it is ideal. I don't consider things said during "the heat of the moment" to be indicative of their actual sentiment. I know it might be hard to believe, but many people do curse or swear or blurt things they don't mean when they're angry. So no, I don't think he's necessarily a racist for saying that and I especially don't think he's a Nazi for saying that.

Sorry but he's racist.

We've established this already. Normal people don't accidentally say racist words.

Also weird that you bumped a topic to cape for PDP. Maybe get a better role model, dawg.

 

[ChainedMaster]

Sorry but he's racist.

We've established this already. Normal people don't accidentally say racist words.

Who said he was normal? You're entitled to your opinion but I'm unconvinced he's racist from that alone. That's just my opinion.

 

[Paganmoon]

update so far:

There are many different anti-nazi manifestations around central Gothenburg. Thousands of people are gathering.
More police and journalists at the Nazi gathering site, than Nazis currently, (could mean they're gathering somewhere else?)
9 people arrested so far, 2 German citizens arrested with weapons at the airport yesterday, 1 other foreign citizen has been denied entry to the country.

Overall, currently "pretty calm".

Video from Heden (one of the larger anti-protest gathering sites)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXgpePOrLLo&ab_channel=SamPhotoandFilm
Edit: as expected comments on video is about it being in portrait mode

Edit2: also to mention, the Nazi demonstration isn't set to start until 12:00 local time (in 30 minutes)

 

[Paganmoon]

Nazis and police have clashed. So far 60 people injured. This is even before the fucks got to the start of their demonstration. Undisturbed wouldn't end in violence my fucking ass.