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NEOGAF's Official Music Production Thread: calling all producers

F

Fusebox

Banned
It's surprisingly easy. For the first few months I used the software editor for everything because it's just crazy powerful:

tetra-editor-460-100-460-70.jpg


But once I realised how easy it is to assign parameters to the 4 assignable knobs from the front I've been using the software editor less and the hardware interface more.
 
H

Hop

That girl in the bunny hat
Hi everyone. I'm Charron, and as far as digital music production is concerned, I am an idiot.

I've been wanting and trying for years to make an album. Since we're talking rock, I've been trying the real-people route. That's consistently failed for all sorts of reasons- band members go crazy, band members suck, band members vanish in a puff of logic.

So I'm going solo. But, I'm a drummer. I'm getting over that, learning some basic music theory and how to put chords together and whatnot, but more importantly that means I'm probably going to need to synthesize everything. Not like I could play a guitar.

Here's where I ask for advice. I'm plenty familiar with Reaper as a DAW thanks to Rock Band work, but it's admittedly not a high level. I can find my way around and make sounds happen, but I have no clue how to make things sound... not shit. And I'm still talking rock, so I don't really want obviously electronic sounds either. That's proving really tricky, I mean nobody can seem to synthesize guitar well. (Danny's come close on the Super Meat Boy soundtrack, and I'll be asking his advice, but I don't wanna copy his sound.) So what kind of VSTs, toolkits, whatever should I be looking at to get some decent, human-ish instrumentation going?
 
Y

Yasae

Banned
Charron said:
Hi everyone. I'm Charron, and as far as digital music production is concerned, I am an idiot.

I've been wanting and trying for years to make an album. Since we're talking rock, I've been trying the real-people route. That's consistently failed for all sorts of reasons- band members go crazy, band members suck, band members vanish in a puff of logic.

So I'm going solo. But, I'm a drummer. I'm getting over that, learning some basic music theory and how to put chords together and whatnot, but more importantly that means I'm probably going to need to synthesize everything. Not like I could play a guitar.

Here's where I ask for advice. I'm plenty familiar with Reaper as a DAW thanks to Rock Band work, but it's admittedly not a high level. I can find my way around and make sounds happen, but I have no clue how to make things sound... not shit. And I'm still talking rock, so I don't really want obviously electronic sounds either. That's proving really tricky, I mean nobody can seem to synthesize guitar well. (Danny's come close on the Super Meat Boy soundtrack, and I'll be asking his advice, but I don't wanna copy his sound.) So what kind of VSTs, toolkits, whatever should I be looking at to get some decent, human-ish instrumentation going?
Click to expand...
None that I've heard.

And considering you're new to electronic production, well.. You're still going to have to make big compromises even with decent-sounding instruments. It's not like Jeremy Soule woke up one day knowing how to program articulations as well as he does. It takes time and practice.

I guess from a mixing standpoint, guitars almost always sound better cut to tape (or a good emulation like Acustica's Nebula 2.) Changes their vibe and imaging in a very pleasing way if done right.
 
V

VariantX04

Loser slave of the system :(
Up to this point I've made all my music using Logic Pro and its stock instruments (granted, i did play around with them until I achieved the sound I wanted). For those who've heard my work, what would, say something like NI Maschine do for my sound? Is it something I should look into?
 
P

PigSpeakers

Member
Whaaaaaat?! This is my thread! I had no idea about this until someone just linked to this. I'm a bit of an amateur still, but I've got a basic set up that includes:
-Powermac G5. It's old, but gets the job done most of the time.
-Digital Performer 6. It's what we used at school, so I'm most familiar with it
-Reason 4. Mostly use this ReWired into DP6. Still just working with the stock instruments and sometimes free refills.
-M-Audio Firewire Solo. Thinking about upgrading to something with at least two XLR ins. One is fine for most things since it's just me, but two would be awesome.
-M-Audio Keystation 88es. Most would claim that 88 keys on your controller is overkill for a starter studio, but I'm a pianist at heart and I really missed having the full set of keys when I was using a smaller keyboard. The thing barely fits on my desk by the way.
-Event 20-20p Monitors. They're kind of large and don't fit on my desk all that well either.

Mics:
-M-Audio Nova Condenser. I know I have a lot of M-Audio crap, but it's sturdy, cheap, and does pretty well. This condenser works well with my voice since it's sort of deep.
-ES-57. This is some sort of SM57 copy from an orange county speaker company. It's a fraction of the price, just as well built and from what I've heard does just as well in the sound department if not better.
-Some Behringer Sm58 copy. I never really record with this anymore. It's mostly for singing live. It's very nice, rarely feeds back and hasn't broken on me yet.
 
N

Nekofrog

Banned
My setup:

-Line6 Pod XT Live into my computer via USB
Line6 Pod HD500 routed the same way
-Running Cubase
-Various VSTs including Addictive Drums and a lot of EWQL stuff
-Various number of guitars of differing brands and types.

I've been recording for several years now and like to consider myself above amateur, as I have made money off of recording gigs and such (theme songs).

Here's my latest tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxOX4dP0I_0&list=UUCx3q2EWdLat0MJTMvvpksA&feature=plcp

If anyone has any questions regarding production on rock & metal, I'd be happy to field some.
 
F

Fusebox

Banned
Heads up groovers:

Thanksgiving_landing_page_banner_680x400px.jpg


I fucken love Native Instruments, here's what I've got of theirs so far:

6397570183_c27b1dc8a2_b.jpg


And a few bits of hardware:

6397792503_768ae45561_z.jpg


I need to update that pic with the Transistor Punch Maschine pack and I plan to buy Razor while it's half-price too.
 
D

Drakken

Member
Great sale. Anyone who doesn't have Kontakt should jump on it while it's half off. Even if you don't end up using the factory library (which is very large), it'll come in handy, as there are SO many third-party libraries that require Kontakt.
 
Y

Yasae

Banned
Nekofrog said:
My setup:

-Line6 Pod XT Live into my computer via USB
Line6 Pod HD500 routed the same way
-Running Cubase
-Various VSTs including Addictive Drums and a lot of EWQL stuff
-Various number of guitars of differing brands and types.

I've been recording for several years now and like to consider myself above amateur, as I have made money off of recording gigs and such (theme songs).

Here's my latest tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxOX4dP0I_0&list=UUCx3q2EWdLat0MJTMvvpksA&feature=plcp

If anyone has any questions regarding production on rock & metal, I'd be happy to field some.
Click to expand...
Sounds pretty good, but snare and kick samples always irk the hell out of me. One trick mix engineers use is utilizing a single velocity sample to add consistency to drum strikes (since those often miss with less experienced drummers.) They still use most of the close snare, however, and it remains an augmentation rather than a replacement.

Anyone can listen to Nevermind if they don't believe me.
 
S

Scuba Steve

Member
Ok so I just got a 120gb SSD, would DAWs run faster on it? Ableton Live and Reason mainly. Also, would I need to save my VSTs on the SSD too? Or am I better off loading them onto my HDD?
 
S

Sullichin

Member
Oh wow, how have I never seen this thread? Looks like I've got some reading to do.

I use Ableton Live (Mac) and an Akai APC-40, which I love but recently broke. I have some other toys too. I really need to get some good VSTs.

here is a song that I made which samples audio CAPTCHAs. Don't be too harsh, now:
http://soundcloud.com/ceiling_fan/captcha-song

Definitely need to check out some of the links in this thread.
 
T

Teknopathetic

Member
"Ok so I just got a 120gb SSD, would DAWs run faster on it? Ableton Live and Reason mainly. Also, would I need to save my VSTs on the SSD too? Or am I better off loading them onto my HDD?"


They'd load faster, that's about it. DAWs themselves mainly want CPU and RAM. Some VSTs that come with large sample libraries and stuff would probably benefit greatly, but you'd only need a handful of those to eat up all your 120gb of space.
 
Y

Yasae

Banned
Teknopathetic said:
"Ok so I just got a 120gb SSD, would DAWs run faster on it? Ableton Live and Reason mainly. Also, would I need to save my VSTs on the SSD too? Or am I better off loading them onto my HDD?"


They'd load faster, that's about it. DAWs themselves mainly want CPU and RAM. Some VSTs that come with large sample libraries and stuff would probably benefit greatly, but you'd only need a handful of those to eat up all your 120gb of space.
Click to expand...
Pretty much. Plugins in particular eat up a lot of CPU, samples eat up a lot of CPU + RAM. Upgrades to those would make a much larger difference.
 
O

Onemic

Member
Hey music production GAF, where to start....Well I've dabbled in DAW's here and there when I was younger(FL studio), but now I've come to a point in time where I've decided that music is the main thing I want to be doing in my life. So currently I downloaded the Ableton Live trial, as I keep hearing great things about it and I totally love the thing, especially the fact that it has a session mode that lets you improvise, making things a hell of a lot of fun. I'm not sure if ableton is the only DAW that does this, but if it is I can see myself committing to this program for a long time.

Well long story short, since I'm a newb to production, what are the basic pieces of hardware I would need to get started? Ultimately I don't want to make electronic music per se, but record live instruments and maybe add some synths here and there or something to that end. I don't expect to start doing the whole live recording thing for a while till I get the money to invest in the hardware and get better at the instruments I want to incorporate(mainly guitar, I already play drums) so in the mean time I'd probably want to make some UK dubstep, or something in the vein of Daft Punk, M83, etc.

so here are my questions to summarize:

- If I want to record live instruments what would I need?
- What are the basic pieces of hardware to get started for production and why are they important?
- What are the best tutorials to get started?(I've already gone through some of the Ableton tuts, but I'm only assuming there are more comprehensive guides to using a DAW)
- Anything else I should know for getting started in production?

Many thanks beforehand!
 
K

kid ness

Member
Hey music production GAF, where to start....Well I've dabbled in DAW's here and there when I was younger(FL studio), but now I've come to a point in time where I've decided that music is the main thing I want to be doing in my life. So currently I downloaded the Ableton Live trial, as I keep hearing great things about it and I totally love the thing, especially the fact that it has a session mode that lets you improvise, making things a hell of a lot of fun. I'm not sure if ableton is the only DAW that does this, but if it is I can see myself committing to this program for a long time.

Well long story short, since I'm a newb to production, what are the basic pieces of hardware I would need to get started? Ultimately I don't want to make electronic music per se, but record live instruments and maybe add some synths here and there or something to that end. I don't expect to start doing the whole live recording thing for a while till I get the money to invest in the hardware and get better at the instruments I want to incorporate(mainly guitar, I already play drums) so in the mean time I'd probably want to make some UK dubstep, or something in the vein of Daft Punk, M83, etc.

so here are my questions to summarize:

- If I want to record live instruments what would I need?
- What are the basic pieces of hardware to get started for production and why are they important?
- What are the best tutorials to get started?(I've already gone through some of the Ableton tuts, but I'm only assuming there are more comprehensive guides to using a DAW)
- Anything else I should know for getting started in production?

Many thanks beforehand!
Click to expand...
Ableton is the only DAW currently with a session view, and you're right, it's a hell of a lot of fun and allows for some great improvisation.

About two months ago I was in the same position is you, and I've started taking classes at a place called Dubspot down in NYC. They have a course down there that you can take in person, and I've been taking classes there 4x a week to learn Ableton Live for about two months now, and there's one month left in the program -- it's amazing. I feel amazingly confident with Ableton and I had no experience beforehand, as I only worked with Logic.
They also have online classes you can take as well. www.dubspot.com

They also have a YouTube channel with literally hundreds of great, free tutorials you can check out; such as making drum patters, dubstep bass lines, etc. http://www.youtube.com/user/DubSpot

To record live instruments, you'll first need an audio interface. I'm not an expert on live recording, but you'll definitely want to research more on that.

In the meantime, as you said you're interested in electronic production, you should definitely invest in a MIDI controller. This is the one I use, and it serves me well. Having a MIDI controller is important because it allows you play any software instrument, and record it in MIDI notes. MIDI is essentially the language that music hardware and software use to communicate. You can make some amazing music with just a laptop and MIDI controller, and it's a great way to get started.

If you can get your hands on the Ableton manual, I'd recommend that. You mentioned that you can see yourself using this program long-term, and it would be beneficial to become associated with everything Live has to offer. Oh, and if you end up buying Ableton, make sure you get the Suite version, and the student discount, that'll save you up to like $300. I think there's a promotion going on til Christmas on ableton's website also?

As far as general tips go, don't get discouraged. When I first started making electronic music, I thought my stuff was great, and then I would go and listen to my favorite musicians and get insanely depressed as my stuff came nowhere close. It will all come with time. The more you give to it, the more you'll get back in return.

All in all, it's all about chasing fun. Don't expect to see results immediately. You should be putting in thousands of hours into producing if you're really serious about it -- it's a big commitment, it will drive you crazy, but it's one of the most satisfying and rewarding processes in the world.
 
O

Onemic

Member
Sweet that controller looks like it's right in my price range and I'll definitely check out those tuts on youtube you talked about. So all I need is just a MIDI controller and an audio interface then I'm set? I'm looking at Fusebox's pictures and he has a fuckton of hardware.

EDIT: I was looking at other MIDI controllers on Amazon and am sort of confused by what's what. What's the difference between the Akai LPK25, Akai Pro LPD8, and the Akai Pro MPK Mini?

And would this be a good audio interface to start with?
 
T

Teknopathetic

Member
The difference between those 3 controllers are what they offer. The first is simply a small Keyboard (like a piano), the second is a pad controller mainly for use with triggering percussion, the last wraps up a bunch of stuff in one package. It has a keyboard, pads, and some knobs. I'd personally pick the last, just for variety's sake.

You'd pretty much be ready to go with just a midi controller, interface, and ableton.


At that interface's price range, it's hard to say. Tascam US800s are being blown out for 100$. That's a 250$ (IIRC) interface for less than that m-audio one. There's also the E-mu 0204 which is similar to the e-mu 0404 that gets a lot of love from budget enthusiast headphone freaks, another option.

Under 150$ almost all audio interfaces seem to have some problem or another.
 
O

Onemic

Member
Teknopathetic said:
The difference between those 3 controllers are what they offer. The first is simply a small Keyboard (like a piano), the second is a pad controller mainly for use with triggering percussion, the last wraps up a bunch of stuff in one package. It has a keyboard, pads, and some knobs. I'd personally pick the last, just for variety's sake.

You'd pretty much be ready to go with just a midi controller, interface, and ableton.


At that interface's price range, it's hard to say. Tascam US800s are being blown out for 100$. That's a 250$ (IIRC) interface for less than that m-audio one. There's also the E-mu 0204 which is similar to the e-mu 0404 that gets a lot of love from budget enthusiast headphone freaks, another option.

Under 150$ almost all audio interfaces seem to have some problem or another.
Click to expand...

Damn, the Tascam doesn't ship to Canada :(

Getting the midi controller though, I'm also assuming you have to be proficient at piano to use this thing? Because I stopped playing piano when I was 10 :/
 
Y

Yasae

Banned
onemic said:
Damn, the Tascam doesn't ship to Canada :(

Getting the midi controller though, I'm also assuming you have to be proficient at piano to use this thing? Because I stopped playing piano when I was 10 :/
Click to expand...
It doesn't require more than a cursory understanding.
 
T

Teknopathetic

Member
Yeah, you're not going to play Liszt on it or anything. At most all you need to know is where the notes are (which takes like 10 minutes) and a tiny bit of music theory (chord construction, etc.) but if you play other instruments, you probably have a basic understanding of that as well. You're only using the midi controller to play out your ideas and sequence them, which is significantly more difficult with a (typing) keyboard.
 
F

Fusebox

Banned
onemic said:
Are there any good plugins for ableton that would be worthwhile for me to use?
Click to expand...

Definitely. What sort of music do you want to make?

Wait, just noticed you said dubstep, daft punk etc.

If you get Ableton Suite, I wouldn't recommend any VSTs to start with. Use VSTs to solve problems/limitations as you reach them. At this stage I'd focus on putting together your first track, it won't be great but you'll get an appreciation for what you can and can't do. Use Analogue and Operator in Ableton for your bass sounds, use Drum Rack for your kits, use all the inbuild delays, compressors etc.

Once you get to a point where you think one of the inbuilt plugins isn't good enough for the job then start investigating some VST alternatives.
 
O

Onemic

Member
Fusebox said:
Definitely. What sort of music do you want to make?

Wait, just noticed you said dubstep, daft punk etc.

If you get Ableton Suite, I wouldn't recommend any VSTs to start with. Use VSTs to solve problems/limitations as you reach them. At this stage I'd focus on putting together your first track, it won't be great but you'll get an appreciation for what you can and can't do. Use Analogue and Operator in Ableton for your bass sounds, use Drum Rack for your kits, use all the inbuild delays, compressors etc.

Once you get to a point where you think one of the inbuilt plugins isn't good enough for the job then start investigating some VST alternatives.
Click to expand...

Well currently I'm loving the hell out of this with the little amount of time I've had to play around with it(exams and all), so I'll probably look into suite once the trail runs out.

And I'm getting the Akai pro MK mini, should be in a little before christmas. Nice early christmas gift for me then :D
 
V

VariantX04

Loser slave of the system :(
You know I actually recorded both my albums (including singles and remixes) with a typing keyboard in Logic. It has served me very, very well since I just record the idea and sequence it to hell and back. Bought a MIDI-controller that's been collecting dust for a while. I might start using it soon when I get my iMac and Komplete 8/Maschine set up and ready to go.

If you're interested in hearing what I've done with just typing keyboards you could check out my work at Soundcloud or my two albums on Bandcamp or iTunes.
 
O

Onemic

Member
AgentWhiskers said:
You know I actually recorded both my albums (including singles and remixes) with a typing keyboard in Logic. It has served me very, very well since I just record the idea and sequence it to hell and back. Bought a MIDI-controller that's been collecting dust for a while. I might start using it soon when I get my iMac and Komplete 8/Maschine set up and ready to go.

If you're interested in hearing what I've done with just typing keyboards you could check out my work at Soundcloud or my two albums on Bandcamp or iTunes.
Click to expand...

With only a keyboard? Damn, that's good. I can't work on ableton right now as I have to study for exams and such, so by the time I finish my last one the MIDI controller is estimated to be delivered.

And Is this or this a good audio interface to begin with?
 
O

Onemic

Member
Fusebox said:
Dunno sorry, you'll have to check some reviews, and also google the model name plus the word 'problem' and make sure you don't get too many hits.
Click to expand...

There seems to be a lot less posts about problems for the io2 compared to the tascam us122, so I'm probably gonna be leaning toward getting the alesis model. It says it comes with cubase, is that another DAW or something? Anyone know if it would be compatible with Ableton?
 
O

Outdoor Miner

Member
For a sub-$200 interface I would go with the Steinberg CI2. Good reviews and with a little digging you can find this for around $120.

If you really cant go above $100 then grab an M-Audio Audiophile 2496. Good card and hands down the best sub-$100 option.
 
O

Onemic

Member
Just a curious question, what's the point of an MPC now? Isn't it simply a hardware based DAW with integrated mixer/sequencing controls and pads? Saw one on amazon and they still go for $1000+ depending on the model. Isn't Maschine pretty much the exact same thing but more affordable and built to work with DAW's?
 
T

Teknopathetic

Member
"Just a curious question, what's the point of an MPC now? Isn't it simply a hardware based DAW with integrated mixer/sequencing controls and pads? Saw one on amazon and they still go for $1000+ depending on the model. Isn't Maschine pretty much the exact same thing but more affordable and built to work with DAW's?"


1) MPCs are standalone, they require no computer at all.
2) The internal hardware colors the sound, some like it.
3 + 4) It's "legendary," used on countless chart topping hip hop/EDM tracks, hero worship.
5) The swing/quantize timing on certain MPCs.
6) Hero Worship
 
V

VariantX04

Loser slave of the system :(
So I've been working on a remix of Yelle's "Comme Un Enfant" for the SoundCloud contest and I was wondering if you guys could give me some feedback before I send it to their DropBox. I just started focusing more on the music production part of my work (when I used to just previously phone it in). Any feedback would help! Thanks.

Yelle - Comme Un Enfant (Agent Whiskers Remix)
 
V

VariantX04

Loser slave of the system :(
Alright so I made a few changes and submitted it. Pretty happy with how it turned out. I know it's not my best but it's exactly how i want it to sound. Thanks anyway, dudes.
 
O

Onemic

Member
I created I drum clip I really like, but the problem is that it doesn't fit in 4 bars, only about 3.5 If I continually duplicate it. Now does this matter when putting together everything else and if so how do you usually alleviate the issue?
 
S

silentcapybara

Banned
Loads of talent in here. If anyone has the Sibelius product, would you mind shooting me a PM? I have two scores that need to be converted to PDF's, but I no longer have access to the program. I'd greatly appreciate it.
 
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