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[ElectricThunder]

I'm not seeing a changelog anywhere obvious just yet, but if this demo video is any indication, the as of yet unreleased SunVox v1.9 is definitely continuing the trend of becoming more capable on the whole even if it seldom ever gets even a sliver of the spotlight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE7tcAfaOZ0

Though it does help that NightRadio is probably one of the top minds in the world when it comes to this sort of thing within the last generation or so.

 

[lazygecko]

1995 promo video for Logic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCLoqDGopuI

 

[Fusebox]

1995 promo video for Logic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCLoqDGopuI

Haha, holy shit, I never knew.

 

[lazygecko]

FLStudio 12 is out now

http://www.image-line.com/flstudio/

Also a friendly reminder to opt out of the sneaky toolbar crap in the installer. Dunno if they still have that.

 

[Accoun]

FLStudio 12 is out now

http://www.image-line.com/flstudio/

Also a friendly reminder to opt out of the sneaky toolbar crap in the installer. Dunno if they still have that.

They have it as paid software? Wow.

 

[lazygecko]

They have it as paid software? Wow.

Both paying customers and trial users download the same client. You'd think registered users could get access to premium mirrors or something.

Not too impressed with it so far. Apparently they've decided that you should no longer be able to add sampler or audio clip channels the usual way from the Insert menu. You can still get sample and audio clip channels from loading existing projects, but I can't figure out how to add new ones. If they're going to make such a fundamental thing that obtuse, I don't think I'll be using this version.

 

[Fusebox]

Also a friendly reminder to opt out of the sneaky toolbar crap in the installer. Dunno if they still have that.

Wow. Not cool FL.

Here's a track I'm playing around with atm:

https://soundcloud.com/kaarma/updownthing

Kind of a housey EDM thing, still a WIP.

 

[User 73706]

Yeah, I don't actually need Ozone 6 or any of the modules. I just want it. And I use Alloy2 as a channel strip currently. I really like iZotope's stuff in general. Next thing I buy from them would be Nectar.

The only product of theirs I'm familiar with is Mastering Essentials which came included in Mixcraft Pro Studio 7's additional plug-ins. Mixcraft 7 overall is such a huge step up from Mixcraft 6, primarily thanks to 64-bit plugin support. I managed to figure out a pretty amazing mastering sidechain using some of the pre-baked stuff, but I haven't actually done a whole lot with it yet.

That being said, I did just do a Metroid Prime / Kingdom feat. Keleka mashup with it. My boyfriend introduced me to the Kingdom track and my immediate reaction was "this is basically spoken word Torvus Bog."

 

[thezerofire]

Seeing a point blank masterclass by Chris Liebing today, pretty hyped

 

[Fusebox]

Seeing a point blank masterclass by Chris Liebing today, pretty hyped

Nice one man, where's that happening?!

 

[thezerofire]

Nice one man, where's that happening?!

San Francisco State University. They're both playing at DNA Lounge tonight too, tiny bar/venue

 

[Fusebox]

Phwoar, I'm jelly. Hope it makes it to youtube someday.

The only product of theirs I'm familiar with is Mastering Essentials which came included in Mixcraft Pro Studio 7's additional plug-ins. Mixcraft 7 overall is such a huge step up from Mixcraft 6, primarily thanks to 64-bit plugin support. I managed to figure out a pretty amazing mastering sidechain using some of the pre-baked stuff, but I haven't actually done a whole lot with it yet.

A mastering sidechain? You crazy kids these days...

edit: How's this for annoying, I've been wrestling to get my Virus TI2 stable on my MacBook Pro for a couple of years with no joy. Borrowed a Dell XPS laptop from work, took it home and my Virus is absolutely rock-solid on it. Can't get it to skip a beat or glitch in the slightest. Dunno if the problem is OSX or my MacBook drivers but it's so damn nice to be back on the TI2 (although the track I posted above is only using Serum and Dune 2).

 

[thezerofire]

they were really cool. pretty inspired right now

edit: It also wasn't him producing, but he did go through is creative strategies and organization and live set up, which was nice

 

[Fusebox]

Nice, I love that shit. The Ill Gates talk about getting organised is still one of the most useful production vids I've watched. Will have to keep an eye out and see if the one you went to hits youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVQ8c19unnM

 

[thezerofire]

Also Richie Hawtin talked a bunch about just playing with things and recording and letting things happen, so gave it a shot. First public track!

https://soundcloud.com/alcoves-2/inside

 

[Dice]

I need a 49key midi controller for Ableton and I already have a Push. What's a decent one without pads for under $150?? I was thinking the previous gen M-AUDIO Oxygen but the keys aren't weighted so that's kind of annoying.

 

[lazygecko]

How is Sony Vegas on the audio production front? I would like something serviceable for doing audio for video, but FL's video functionality is just awful for that. I was looking into getting Pro Tools for myself since I've done video work with it in the past, but I forgot how damn bloody expensive that thing is.

 

[lazygecko]

Making your own faux vintage drumloops is fun

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66640537/notcrazy.mp3

Used an old crappy Battery kit, heavy compression, EQ, and saturation, then some 909 on top. Instant 90's beat!

 

[Kenshin001]

How the hell do people get their tracks to sound loud? I render a track to Audacity and then bump up the Amplify as far as it will go but compared to other tracks on Soundcloud they still sound really quiet. Help!

 

[Falk]

How is Sony Vegas on the audio production front? I would like something serviceable for doing audio for video, but FL's video functionality is just awful for that. I was looking into getting Pro Tools for myself since I've done video work with it in the past, but I forgot how damn bloody expensive that thing is.

Vegas was and is used in a lot of audio production outfits up till this day. A place I used to intern at that outsourced audio for games like Bioshock, etc still uses it.

It works. Basic volume/pan/fx/sync functionality to video clips. Obviously don't expect to start sequencing in it. It's not a DAW.

How the hell do people get their tracks to sound loud? I render a track to Audacity and then bump up the Amplify as far as it will go but compared to other tracks on Soundcloud they still sound really quiet. Help!

Limiters and proper tone balance (A muddy track is gonna eat all your headroom)

This is a rabbit hole you want to go down very well prepared with knowledge on how much is too much, though.

 

[Dreaver]

I think I've asked before on this forum. But I'm going to ask again: I'm thinking about investing in some gear for live jamming. Right now, I have close to zero experience and all the terms that are people throwing around when searching on the internet makes my head hurt. I'm really interested in getting involved in it. There's not a lot of good information on the internet as a beginner.

What I want: play around with samples, percussion, existing tracks (and perhaps combine it with DJ'ing). To give two examples of what I like: Ansome techno live performance + KiNK presents Cyrilic.

So where do I even begin with buiding a live setup? Can someone enlighten me how hardware samplers and sequencers work exactly? I'm thinking about grabbing a drumcomputer at least. The Roland Aira TR-8 is obviously really cool, but I find $500 pretty expensive. I'm thinking about grabbing the Korg Volca Beats instead.

Any advice on what gear I should grab?

Right now I own Ableton / Xone K:2, Traktor and Traktor S2.

Budget for now = $500-600ish

 

[Fusebox]

Start off with something cheap in case you don't enjoy it. Volca Beats + a Microbrute or something will be a great setup to learn on. Whatever you like the sound of that fits in your budget, ask before buying but you can't go too wrong.

How the hell do people get their tracks to sound loud? I render a track to Audacity and then bump up the Amplify as far as it will go but compared to other tracks on Soundcloud they still sound really quiet. Help!

Leave loads of headroom and limit that shit. Grab the Ozone 5 demo and try the house music stereo widening preset.

I need a 49key midi controller for Ableton and I already have a Push. What's a decent one without pads for under $150?? I was thinking the previous gen M-AUDIO Oxygen but the keys aren't weighted so that's kind of annoying.

I don't like weighted keys for making electronic music, they just throw me off. I love my CEM Xkey lol.

Also Richie Hawtin talked a bunch about just playing with things and recording and letting things happen, so gave it a shot. First public track!

https://soundcloud.com/alcoves-2/inside

Cool man, will listen to this later!

 

[lazygecko]

Just discovered that the US equivalent of EBU R128 is called the CALM Act. Americans sure do love their acronym legislations.

 

[User 73706]

So, I'm starting to remake one of my old remixes / collabs with fellow gaffer aHebrewMenagerie (who was also on THE GAF TAPE album), and started out with the percussion first because there were some issues with the actual rhythm that needed addressing. Preview snippet

Original track is here.

 

[Fusebox]

Also Richie Hawtin talked a bunch about just playing with things and recording and letting things happen, so gave it a shot. First public track!

https://soundcloud.com/alcoves-2/inside

Not bad at all man! Some really cool percussion. Not much happening in the first 4 mins though, but it's definitely got that Dave Clarke/Hawtin old school techno vibe going on although I wouldn't have minded a hook of some kind and the cool delay tricks around the 7 min mark should have kicked in about 5 mins earlier.

 

[thezerofire]

Not bad at all man! Some really cool percussion. Not much happening in the first 4 mins though, but it's definitely got that Dave Clarke/Hawtin old school techno vibe going on although I wouldn't have minded a hook of some kind and the cool delay tricks around the 7 min mark should have kicked in about 5 mins earlier.

Yeah, I definitely need the toms to come in louder, earlier, and doing more stuff earlier in addition to all that too. This was all just on a Volca Beats, I need to get my setup working with the Bass unit so I can do both at the same time. Thanks a ton for the feedback

 

[Fusebox]

That was all on Volca Beats? Now I'm even more impressed man, those beats sounded proper. I might have to grab one too!

 

[thezerofire]

That was all on Volca Beats? Now I'm even more impressed man, those beats sounded proper. I might have to grab one too!

They're really fun, but also really quiet. I have a Focusrite 6i6 I use and I have to put the gain way up to get sound in. Also they output in stereo for whatever reason which is cool but I only have two inputs with that gain control so I lose half of it if I want to use both at the same time

Really fun little boxes though, I feel like I've barely even got started on learning the Bass one

 

[Dreaver]

Start off with something cheap in case you don't enjoy it. Volca Beats + a Microbrute or something will be a great setup to learn on. Whatever you like the sound of that fits in your budget, ask before buying but you can't go too wrong.

Thanks for your comment. I managed to grab a used TR-8 for about 150 euro's cheaper. It was only used 3 times and there's still 2,5 year warranty on it. Really liking it!

Also Richie Hawtin talked a bunch about just playing with things and recording and letting things happen, so gave it a shot. First public track!

https://soundcloud.com/alcoves-2/inside

Cool jam! I'm going to give live recording with my TR-8 a try tomorrow.

They're really fun, but also really quiet. I have a Focusrite 6i6 I use and I have to put the gain way up to get sound in. Also they output in stereo for whatever reason which is cool but I only have two inputs with that gain control so I lose half of it if I want to use both at the same time

Really fun little boxes though, I feel like I've barely even got started on learning the Bass one

Do you also have the keys? If so, any advice which one is more fun to get first (next to my TR-8)? I'm definitely getting either one of them soon, but not sure which one I should get.

I'm also thinking of getting a Boss DS-1 Distortion Pedal for some distorted techno kicks on my TR-8 and a Mini Kaoss Pad 2 for some neat effects. I saw it somewhere for about 50 euro (it's not made anymore because there's a new version, but I believe that the new version is about 160 euro, 50 is a steal)...

 

[thezerofire]

Thanks for your comment. I managed to grab a used TR-8 for about 150 euro's cheaper. It was only used 3 times and there's still 2,5 year warranty on it. Really liking it!


Cool jam! I'm going to give live recording with my TR-8 a try tomorrow.


Do you also have the keys? If so, any advice which one is more fun to get first (next to my TR-8)? I'm definitely getting either one of them soon, but not sure which one I should get.

I'm also thinking of getting a Boss DS-1 Distortion Pedal for some distorted techno kicks on my TR-8 and a Mini Kaoss Pad 2 for some neat effects. I saw it somewhere for about 50 euro (it's not made anymore because there's a new version, but I believe that the new version is about 160 euro, 50 is a steal)...

I don't have the keys or the sampler yet but I'd love to get both.

 

[Dreaver]

Inspired by Thezerofire's post: here's my first jam on the TR-8. First time actually trying to make some beats with progress in the form of a simple track.

http://www19.zippyshare.com/v/2j6jT3gc/file.html

 

[DesertEater]

Hello everyone,

I have been playing the piano now for about six months. I have a basic understanding of scales, chords, chords progressions and such things, but I still feel like there is a good amount to learn. Now, I'm mostly focusing on how to play different pieces, while spending sometime now and then in learning a thing or two about music theory.

I'm just wondering, how deep of an understanding in music theory do u need to make simple songs?
How do u guys divide your time between learning how to play an instrument, how to make music, and actually making music?

 

[Falk]

Call me an oddity, but I feel like developing the motor skills for playing an instrument, the aural skills to pick apart songs and understand theory, and the creativity to write your own stuff are three very separate skillsets that rely on each other.

I used to play everything under the sun casually - piano lessons, guitar, bass, some really terrible drumming, etc. but eventually found that my calling was along a different path - transcription, composition, arrangement, production, engineering, etc (being surrounded by people who were many, many tiers above where I was in performance helped with that push :V sup Boston music community)

Nowadays I rarely play, but the skillsets I developed as a teenager (especially understanding chord structure, etc) still helps with my current composition/arrangement/productions/engineering projects. Hanging out with so many musicians also lets you have an idea of what's physically possible and impossible when writing music if the music's actually meant to be played and not simply just a production (and of course they're an invaluable resource for cross-checking when in doubt)

 

[lazygecko]

I think first and foremost you need an appropriate catalyst to nurture your interest and passion for each facet of music. I started playing violin in third grade but that was absolutely not something for me (the only thing I remember from those lessons is how bad the old wooden violins smelled). It was my discovery of trackers and computer music years later that made me realise this was something I really wanted to do. I imagine for others it's common to start a band in your teenage years simply because it's just a cool thing to do, and while most "grow out" of that phase others will discover that this is something they're genuinely interested in.

For a lot of years I was solely into electronic/dance music since that's what computer music typically is centered around. It was when I started getting into jazz fusion and progressive rock/metal I realised that harmony was something I had a fundamental interest in since these genres are a lot richer and more varied in that aspect. Still never picked up a guitar or anything though cause the performance aspect has never felt relevant to me.

I think these days when the ability to record and produce music has become completely democratized, you have this entire generation of bedroom producers appearing who have no real interest in exploring harmony or music theory and this is really reflected in the music. I heard a funny anecdote from someone who was at the same studio complex Avicii was working at. He and his team of production assistants were stuck on a track because they were having issues with dissonance they couldn't figure out. So this guy just happens to walk by, takes a look and pretty soon figures out that they are stacking major and minor chords. It's pretty amazing that not a single person in their team could figure that out.
You can see this trend in online production communities and scenes like KVR as well. When people discuss music it's more often about kick sounds or plucks, and chords moreso refer to synth presets with baked in harmonies.
That's not to say that you can't see the same attitudes manifest in non-electronic music though. Plenty of boring coffee shop guitarists who are content with staying in the comfort zone of the 4 chord grips they've learned.

I just wish that more people could be inspired somehow to take more of an interest in this stuff.

One of the things I cherish the most about my years of experience is how I started to see how composition, arrangement, production, mixing etc are all heavily intertwined with eachother. Something that you might think of as a mixing problems could just as well be fixed via the voicing in the arrangement rather than whipping out the EQ. I treat all of these as the same thing in my workflow rather than dividing everything into rigid steps.

 

[Xrenity]

Had a shot at popular EDM production because a colleague kept hammering me for it.

https://soundcloud.com/tymermusic-1/tymer-dj-oh-yeah

 

[ElectricThunder]

Well, after an enormous slog of time, the forever ambitious Radium has made it to Radium 3

http://users.notam02.no/~kjetism/radium/index.php

The changelog is...all over the place inside and out since the v1.9x times---the screenshots and a demo video(track) has been updated alongside the About page to an extent. Ideally, the website and all could probably do better on enticement and summary...but...yeah, there's definitely no PR department afoot.

Radium is a music editor with a new type of interface.

-Compared to the normal sequencer interface editing is quicker and more musical data fits on the screen.
-Compared to trackers, note positions and effects are edited graphically, which should be quicker, provide more vertical space and give a better musically overview.

However, despite its unusual appearance, it's a design goal for Radium to be straightforward to use, and easy to learn. It should not be harder to learn Radium than any tracker or most midi sequencers.

Some Features

Velocity automation
Effect automation
Pitch automation
Tempo automation
Smooth scrolling
MIDI sequencing
Tickless.
Modular mixer.
LADSPA and VST plugins
(More than 100 LADSPA plugins are included in the OSX and Windows versions)
Several built-in effects and instruments
(virtual instruments, etc.)
Pure Data embedded.
(Linux only for now)
Zooming
Microtonality
Perfectly tuned default color scheme
Extension language support.
(Write programs that generate music or modify your songs)
Scores can be generated with Common Music Notation (CMN)
Open source

It uses something of an unusual funding model compared to the bigger programs, but considering the main developer has quite a history back in the day---can't be that surprising out here in the far fringes. In theory, I'd imagine some rapid punctuated progress could well happen with a funding/user surge same as any other even tangentially bounty-oriented projects out there as opposed to the glacial black box that is the prevailing style in the ostensibly big leagues bearing their dongles and whatnot.

Still, I know there's got to be folks here who can better suss this out and perhaps avail themselves of it than not.

 

[Fusebox]

Little tip guys if electronic is your thing, make ALL your tunes DJ friendly, even the shitty, late night experimental throw-away tunes you know you're gonna abandon before they're 'finished'.

I went from DJing to production so I've always known exactly how to make a tune DJ friendly but I've ended up with way too many tunes where I started making them to test a new technique or synth and never bothered investing the small amount of time to get my intros and outros usable because it seemed inconceivable that the tune would ever get anywhere near a deck.

Fast-forward another 10 years and I've bought a Serato setup purely so I can knock our some DJ mixes using all my own production and some of those throwaway tunes have awesome parts that I want to use in my mix but I have to pimpslap the intro and outros into submission to get them mixed smoothly.

Lesson learned: Doesn't matter if you're just dicking around with a loop of a new synth, throw an intro and outro on that thing before ditching it and moving on because one day you'll probably want to spin it in a mix, even if it's just for a laugh.

 

[cjsnapp]

Hey guys. I've been checking out the Music Makers thread and came across this one recently. I just dropped a new track the other day for anyone interested in checking it out or giving any feedback. It's sort of breaks/electro I suppose.

https://soundcloud.com/jacksonsnapp/jackson-snapp-the-journey

 

[thezerofire]

Little tip guys if electronic is your thing, make ALL your tunes DJ friendly, even the shitty, late night experimental throw-away tunes you know you're gonna abandon before they're 'finished'.

I went from DJing to production so I've always known exactly how to make a tune DJ friendly but I've ended up with way too many tunes where I started making them to test a new technique or synth and never bothered investing the small amount of time to get my intros and outros usable because it seemed inconceivable that the tune would ever get anywhere near a deck.

Fast-forward another 10 years and I've bought a Serato setup purely so I can knock our some DJ mixes using all my own production and some of those throwaway tunes have awesome parts that I want to use in my mix but I have to pimpslap the intro and outros into submission to get them mixed smoothly.

Lesson learned: Doesn't matter if you're just dicking around with a loop of a new synth, throw an intro and outro on that thing before ditching it and moving on because one day you'll probably want to spin it in a mix, even if it's just for a laugh.

how would you suggest getting intro and outros usable?

 

[cjsnapp]

how would you suggest getting intro and outros usable?

I believe what Fusebox is getting as is:

Say you have an old project with a great section of music but can't figure out how to piece it into an entire song. Create an 8/16/however long intro and outro to include a beat with maybe some other minimal sounds going on. That way it can be easily transitioned into and out of for a DJ set.

 

[FloatingDivider]

Is it wrong to enjoy the music production aspect on an exclusive basis. I keep feeling like I actually need to press play in some live venues or something to be seen as someone who's really into music. I have a buddy who's played several reasonably big festivals and it's quite obvious he looks down on everything I do because I have no desire to become a "DJ".

Secondly, how do you guys deal with finishing tracks, I have ridiculous difficulty actually finishing my projects because I keep doubting the quality of what I've made and tend to just abandon ship as soon as my brain goes I don't like this thing I've spent all day working on. I've actually got several gigabytes of shit that's kind of decent, I guess, but then I listen to it and it sounds like shit, but then I'll listen to it while in a different frame of mind and it sounds slightly less like shit. I basically keep going back and forth on a track, listening to the snippets over and over again before abandoning them. Hell sometimes I functionally finish a track and never do anything with it, or mix it, or master it or upload it. I've had this track sitting in a folder on my hard-drive since the 25th of June 2014 and nobody but myself has ever actually heard it. That's why I uploaded it today, but I feel like it's so old now and I could theoretically do way better. I also don't want to upload shit to my soundcloud that's subpar because I have this imagined level of quality I want to achieve, even though I don't have the skills to get there yet.

I've also been producing for a good year and a half now and still don't know shit about mixing and mastering, it's kind of embarrassing really. I blame the fact that I have really terrible ears. My hearing is fine, as in pretty standard for someone my age, but I have to be really careful to not aggravate the tinnitus that I caught as a result of a viral cold. It's mostly because my ears get tired super quickly, so I end up spending far too little time actually mixing/mastering shit which probably contributes to the fact that I think my music sounds far too amateuristic. I really want to hit that professional ass quality level, where I could actually contemplate charging for my music but I don't feel like I'm getting any closer.

 

[Kwansu Dudes]

Is it wrong to enjoy the music production aspect on an exclusive basis. I keep feeling like I actually need to press play in some live venues or something to be seen as someone who's really into music. I have a buddy who's played several reasonably big festivals and it's quite obvious he looks down on everything I do because I have no desire to become a "DJ".

No it isn't wrong but there's money to be made and it's a good way to spread your brand/music. I've been making music for a while and though I think it would be cool, I'd rather just make music. I think your perspective may change if you ever get picked up by a label though.

Secondly, how do you guys deal with finishing tracks, I have ridiculous difficulty actually finishing my projects because I keep doubting the quality of what I've made and tend to just abandon ship as soon as my brain goes I don't like this thing I've spent all day working on. I've actually got several gigabytes of shit that's kind of decent, I guess, but then I listen to it and it sounds like shit, but then I'll listen to it while in a different frame of mind and it sounds slightly less like shit. I basically keep going back and forth on a track, listening to the snippets over and over again before abandoning them. Hell sometimes I functionally finish a track and never do anything with it, or mix it, or master it or upload it. I've had this track sitting in a folder on my hard-drive since the 25th of June 2014 and nobody but myself has ever actually heard it. That's why I uploaded it today, but I feel like it's so old now and I could theoretically do way better. I also don't want to upload shit to my soundcloud that's subpar because I have this imagined level of quality I want to achieve, even though I don't have the skills to get there yet.

I'm pretty sure it's natural for most "producers" to have a shit ton of projects. I probably have hundreds of unfinished projects that range from shit to decent. It's all good. If you're forcing yourself to finish something, then you probably should come back to it later or just stop working on it. I'm the same way with my projects, i want it to sound "professional" so I end up quitting. Let it come naturally.

I've also been producing for a good year and a half now and still don't know shit about mixing and mastering, it's kind of embarrassing really. I blame the fact that I have really terrible ears. My hearing is fine, as in pretty standard for someone my age, but I have to be really careful to not aggravate the tinnitus that I caught as a result of a viral cold. It's mostly because my ears get tired super quickly, so I end up spending far too little time actually mixing/mastering shit which probably contributes to the fact that I think my music sounds far too amateuristic. I really want to hit that professional ass quality level, where I could actually contemplate charging for my music but I don't feel like I'm getting any closer.

I started making music almost a decade ago and I still don't know how to properly mix or master. Your bad ears probably play a part of it, but your lack of knowledge of knowing what to do probably plays the biggest role. There are a lot of guides out there to give you a general idea of what to do so I would suggest you do that. It isn't just the mix that makes your music sound amateur, it's also your sample choice and arrangement but that comes with experience and knowledge.

Personally, I think you're being way too hard on yourself. 1 1/2 years of production is a decent amount, but sometimes it takes longer for it to click or achieve that level you want. I don't think most producers got to where they are in only a year. Try remaking your favorite tracks, learn sound design, learn composition/theory, do something that'll help you improve your craft and show others your stuff. Some people might like it and can provide valuable feedback. Your friend played big shows too right? Why not ask him for help?

 

[Falk]

To add on to that, I totally understand that in today's climate most 'music guys' are expected to be able to do everything themselves, but if you're at a point where you think you'd be able to monetize your music solely off your composition/arrangement/production skills, and mixing/mastering is holding you back, get someone else to do it for you. It's better to be able to crank out 3 songs and have them sound really good than spending the same amount of man-hours tinkering nonstop on one and getting it sounding decent.

If it's a matter of pride, think of it as more of a collaboration than a client-service production-engineering relationship. You just have to find people that jive well with your work methodology.

edit: And yeh, 18 months is pretty short in the grand scheme of things. People who have been at this for decades are still always improving and learning new tricks. If they want to remain in the business, that is.

 

[FloatingDivider]

No it isn't wrong but there's money to be made and it's a good way to spread your brand/music. I've been making music for a while and though I think it would be cool, I'd rather just make music. I think your perspective may change if you ever get picked up by a label though.

I feel like the label thing is a pretty big pipedream, I also don't even know if I really want to get picked up by a label, I'd be fine just making music on a solo basis forever. I just want it to sound a lot more professional.

I'm pretty sure it's natural for most "producers" to have a shit ton of projects. I probably have hundreds of unfinished projects that range from shit to decent. It's all good. If you're forcing yourself to finish something, then you probably should come back to it later or just stop working on it. I'm the same way with my projects, i want it to sound "professional" so I end up quitting. Let it come naturally.

That's my issue though, I never come back to it. At best I might finally decide to upload it to soundcloud, if it's finished enough, but generally once I hit that spot where I start to self judge it's always over for me.

I started making music almost a decade ago and I still don't know how to properly mix or master. Your bad ears probably play a part of it, but your lack of knowledge of knowing what to do probably plays the biggest role. There are a lot of guides out there to give you a general idea of what to do so I would suggest you do that. It isn't just the mix that makes your music sound amateur, it's also your sample choice and arrangement but that comes with experience and knowledge.

Personally, I think you're being way too hard on yourself. 1 1/2 years of production is a decent amount, but sometimes it takes longer for it to click or achieve that level you want. I don't think most producers got to where they are in only a year. Try remaking your favorite tracks, learn sound design, learn composition/theory, do something that'll help you improve your craft and show others your stuff. Some people might like it and can provide valuable feedback. Your friend played big shows too right? Why not ask him for help?

I agree with the statement about sample choice and arranging, that's honestly the area I'm most interested in improving and 90% of my efforts are in that area. It's also where I feel like I've made the biggest improvement, but I'm still a long way off the mark there imo. My big issue is that I'm super aware of the fact that I'm terrible in terms of judging the actual quality of my output. I also feel like the internet/family/friends are terrible mirrors because they're not honest enough. They're all like this sounds good, or is pretty decent but I feel like that's not the most useful type of feedback. Even if you post in feedback forums it seems like a lot of people tend to be there to fish for soundcloud likes/follows and it seems like a dead end in terms of getting really useful feedback. I have to be honest with myself too though and I should admit that I haven't put in enough effort yet, I'm fairly sure my music sounds hobbyist because that's the level of effort I'm putting into it. I should put my nose to the grindstone and get grinding to hit the quality level I want to achieve. I should stop thinking about quality and just start creating/finishing at a better pace than a track every three months or so. I'd like to thank you for your post though, it helped me self evaluate my actual goals while I was formulating a reply. Now I just need to compose a battle plan and execute it instead of playing a bunch of videogames in my freetime.

To add on to that, I totally understand that in today's climate most 'music guys' are expected to be able to do everything themselves, but if you're at a point where you think you'd be able to monetize your music solely off your composition/arrangement/production skills, and mixing/mastering is holding you back, get someone else to do it for you. It's better to be able to crank out 3 songs and have them sound really good than spending the same amount of man-hours tinkering nonstop on one and getting it sounding decent.

If it's a matter of pride, think of it as more of a collaboration than a client-service production-engineering relationship. You just have to find people that jive well with your work methodology.

edit: And yeh, 18 months is pretty short in the grand scheme of things. People who have been at this for decades are still always improving and learning new tricks. If they want to remain in the business, that is.

I agree 18 months is weaksauce and I shouldn't expect too much yet. I'm just terribly judgmental about myself like that, it's probably because I am a really quick study and usually when I'm 18 months into doing something I feel a lot more competent than I do when I'm making music. I'm not really interested in having someone mix/master my things out of the pride thing, and it's a skill I'd really like to master.

 

[Falk]

I'd say in that case, take it one step at a time, and concentrate on mixing. Mastering is really a different ballgame, and with many popular methods of delivery (YouTube, looking at you) making loudness wars (at least, on the digital consumption side) something of a bygone era, it's not nearly as necessary to slam everything to absurdity.

If you're referencing commercially released stuff (which is a good practice) you can always reduce your reference tracks by like -9 or -12dB and compare it that way. That lets you concentrate on making your mix sound similar in terms of tone/balance/etc without worrying about getting it loud as well. That can come later, and should by all rights be done as a proper, discrete and separate 'mastering' stage* on a final, exported stereo mix.

* I'm loathe to call this mastering to be honest. Half the reason of mastering is to get a fresh perspective on a track. I do understand that budget is often a reason that the same person ends up mixing and mastering, that 'mastering' process does end up self-defeating. I'm qualified to do either, and while quite a few of my clients do ask me to 'mix and master', I'll ask to not be credited for mastering. That's not really mastering in the truest sense of the word. That's getting a track really loud, but without the critical unbiased-second-opinion facet of the mastering process.

All that being said, in many genres overall stereo compression is part of the overall sound. Not disagreeing with that at all. That's still part of the mixing and production process, though.

 

[Kwansu Dudes]

...

Just keep at it and your skills, knowledge as well as your ears will get better too. It's a long and time consuming road, but the payoff is really worth it. Believe it or not, you're not as bad as you think you are. When you read comments from strangers who enjoy your tracks, it feels great.

Regarding feedback, I would never ask family or friends cause I think it's a natural instinct to be nice because you don't want to come off as an asshole (sometimes my friends are useful though). It is tough finding someone who'll take some time out and actually critique you, but try posting in GAF's We Are The Music Makers OT. It's relatively active and I occasionally write megaposts for people's songs. I try to be as honest and constructive as possible. Others usually listen too.

I found that doing remakes and remixes of my favorite songs really helped with song structure, composition and melodies. I learned most of my structure and chord progressions through remaking songs. It also helps to understand minor and major chords as well (where theory comes in hand). Remixes already provide a foundation for you to build on, so it's usually easier to finish. Don't feel confined to genres and just do whatever sounds good to you.

It took me several years to finally make a decent track and I've taken extended breaks in between as well. Try to dedicate some time into it but don't stop playing games/doing your hobbies. You should want to do it, not feel forced to because you feel you need to in order to get better.

Falk sounds knowledgeable so maybe he could give you pointers on mixing and mastering.

P.S. I'm a total hypocrite because I too, overly judge myself for being too amateur-y compared professional tracks. We're here to help!

 

[Fusebox]

I believe what Fusebox is getting as is:

Say you have an old project with a great section of music but can't figure out how to piece it into an entire song. Create an 8/16/however long intro and outro to include a beat with maybe some other minimal sounds going on. That way it can be easily transitioned into and out of for a DJ set.

Nah, I'm saying get it right first time so you don't have to try and dig out a 5 year old project made using a bunch of hardware synths and plugs you no longer have.

how would you suggest getting intro and outros usable?

Make your intro is percussive without loads of complex parts, keep it simple so you can add more percussive layers to build some tension. Hold off your bassline and melodies until at least around the 32 or 64 bar mark, don't bring them in too early, give your last track plenty of time to disassemble before layering back up again with your next track. Make sure your drops are punctuated with crashes and impacts and don't underestimate how much a short snare roll or riser before the drop can help your mix sound pro. Similar thing for the intro, leave a nice long percussive section without any big bass or melody to roll out on, don't do fadeouts at the end, finish on a crash or impact to help the rollout.

 

[Fusebox]

http://blog.presonus.com/index.php/2015/05/13/join-us-may-20-for-our-most-epic-webcast-ever/

Oh shiiit Studio One v3 incoming? Give it to meeee!

 

[Fusebox]

Oh yeeeeaaah. S1 v3 Bought and installed. Now for some learning.

http://studioone.presonus.com

 

[Falk]

That was a fast purchase lol

Literally just under 24 hours