NES/Famicom Appreciation Thread

Gah...reading Famicom World has me paranoid. I have an AV Famicom on the way but also decided to grab a Super Famicom since I've always wanted one (dat rainbow color scheme and design).

They stress against using the Japanese AC adapters for both systems in American outlets. They will work but at the cost of extra heat and potential damage to the system or AC adapter over time. The Sega Genesis 1 adapter is an option but they look like they are getting hard to track down and are over $20. I ended up finding the step down converter for $17.99 and figured it was better safe than sorry especially if I'm going to be using both systems a lot.

If anyone is paranoid like me and wants to use a Japanese Famicom or Super Famicom in the States with the original AC adapter...

http://voltageconverters.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=VC100J
 
dcx4610 said:
Gah...reading Famicom World has me paranoid. I have an AV Famicom on the way but also decided to grab a Super Famicom since I've always wanted one (dat rainbow color scheme and design).

They stress against using the Japanese AC adapters for both systems in American outlets. They will work but at the cost of extra heat and potential damage to the system or AC adapter over time. The Sega Genesis 1 adapter is an option but they look like they are getting hard to track down and are over $20. I ended up finding the step down converter for $17.99 and figured it was better safe than sorry especially if I'm going to be using both systems a lot.

If anyone is paranoid like me and wants to use a Japanese Famicom or Super Famicom in the States with the original AC adapter...

http://voltageconverters.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=VC100J
Click to expand...
Man I wouldn't worry about it.

I've had Famicom adapters hooked up for years in Canada with no issue.

I even have a voltage converter from a Japanese ex girlfriend and I don't bother digging it out of storage to add to my Famicoms, that's how little I worry.

In Europe it's a different story I think.
 
I've been using a Mega Drive power adapter on a Super Fami for literally 20 years. And on my AV Fami for 15. It's the way to go.
 
I have a Japanese white Saturn and just use the power cable that came with it. I've never had any issues.

That's my only Japanese console, tho
 
dcx4610 said:
The NES adapter input is 17w, while the Genesis is 15w. The output on the NES is 9v, 1.3a. The Genesis, 10v 0.85a.

It'll work but I've always be a little bit paranoid about it. Apparently all the NES truly needs is at least 9v and .85a to work. The Genesis has 1 extra volt but less amps but is considered within tolerance levels. It also outputs in DC rather than AC like the original NES. Plug the Genesis adapter into your NES and it will work. Plug the NES adapter into your Genesis and you'll fry it.

If you look for one of the many just generic replacements for the NES, SNES and Genesis, they are 9v, .85a and DC output. I think you're safe but I'd rather stick with OEM if possible.
Click to expand...

The genesis 2 adapter is 10v DC, the genesis 1 adapter is 9v DC, just like the nes, but not ac power.

But the nes regulates internally so there should be no difference. Most of the third party nes adapters are DC 9v anyway.
 
Mzo said:
I need to hear some numbers on input lag before it's even a consideration.

I have a feeling I will continue to side with the RGB mod.
Click to expand...

Yeah, lag would play a big part in it. Some games really do require that precise input. I think the HDMI looks too Emulator-esq to me. I can understand there is a market mind.

Here's an example of the SMB title screen of a FamiRGB. (Please excuse the moiré)

IMG_6194%202.jpg


And a Cropped section of that picture

IMG_6194.jpg


Tim's board combined with a nice CRT gives such a beautiful picture combined with the lag less control.
 
I grew up with the 2600, NES, SNES, etc. and I'm just not hardcore when it comes to scanlines and CRTs like most retro gamers.

It seems a lot of people want to recreate their childhoods and experience games the way they remembered them. For me, I don't miss CRTs, scanlines and fooling with the color and tint settings.

I'm very much in favor of playing games on the original hardware without any emulation but as far as outputting the graphics, I'm more interested in seeing the games how they *should* look without old technology and CRTs holding them back. Seeing pixel perfect graphics and perfect color like the AVS and HDMI NES mod are going to do, that gets me excited.

There's definitely some nostalgia with scanlines but to me if almost feels like a filter over the graphics and I would rather see them unfiltered and clean.

As far as lag, the AVS should have zero lag in theory. The HDMI NES mod uses the original CPU and PPU without any frame buffer and has zero lag.
 
dcx4610 said:
I'm very much in favor of playing games on the original hardware without any emulation but as far as outputting the graphics, I'm more interested in seeing the games how they *should* look without old technology and CRTs holding them back. Seeing pixel perfect graphics and perfect color like the AVS and HDMI NES mod are going to do, that gets me excited
Click to expand...
Then you're misunderanding how they 'should' look.

The games were designed for CRTs. They were designed around the limitations of CRTs, and those limitations are factored into how the graphics were designed. The entire concept of 240p output is a hack that picks up on a quirk of CRT technology.

They were also developed and tested on RGB CRT monitors. There were no LCDs and OLEDs and plasmas back then.

Anything that doesn't include consideration of a 4:3 image and scanlines is altering the original image, not 'cleaning' it of CRT features. Great pixel art in particular was designed around scaliness, and use them to trick the eye into seeing smoother, rounder edges and shadings.
 
I'd love to have a CRT in action and I've had one going in a retro setup in the past. It's just a space issue for me now with two kids and no extra space for an office or man cave. And I just don't see it happening any time soon. My unfinished basement in our 90-year-old house is kind of a dank and unwelcoming place, and I'd have to play games amid the smell of cat shit and the clanking of a washer and dryer.

Therefore I'm thinking of RGB modding an NES and buying a Framemeister to get a good IQ on my plasma TV -- a nearly $500 investment. I am just having a really hard time swallowing that cost. I guess even if I had a CRT I'd be considering RGB modding my NES anyway, though.... The photos like the ones Bancho just posted are just so damn delicious.
 
I am also rolling with the RGB mod on a CRT and it looks fantastic.

I'm not really a fan of the super sharp pixel look at all. The only real negative for me is that the geometry on most sets I've had have always been less than perfect. I don't think CRTs can help it much.
 
dcx4610 said:
I'm very much in favor of playing games on the original hardware without any emulation but as far as outputting the graphics, I'm more interested in seeing the games how they *should* look without old technology and CRTs holding them back. Seeing pixel perfect graphics and perfect color like the AVS and HDMI NES mod are going to do, that gets me excited.
Click to expand...

Then you should really consider RGB and CRT. This how they should look. The digital, square pixels is an internal, temporary rendition of the graphics, it never was intended to look like this by the artists: if you play SNES on an emulator, you will get the image stretched vertically because the square digital temporary pixel was supposed to be displayed with an horizontal stretch on a real display. And only a CRT can properly stretch the pixels, you will never get the correct look on an square pixel LCD display without additional filters that will inherently prevent you from seeing "pixel perfect graphics".

RGB is as clean as a digital output and CRT certainly doesn't hold it back, it's the perfect match for it with its adaptive resolution and phosphor spot size variability. Composite and RF are what held back the displays and the only thing you had to play in the US, which is why you were so relieved when Component and HDMI were introduced. A CRT can display a beautiful image, as long as you feed it the correct signal. In the case of the Famicom, have it RGB modded and wonder at the real pixel perfect graphics on a CRT.

tl;dr: don't conflate RF/Composite with CRTs.
 
dcx4610 said:
I grew up with the 2600, NES, SNES, etc. and I'm just not hardcore when it comes to scanlines and CRTs like most retro gamers.

It seems a lot of people want to recreate their childhoods and experience games the way they remembered them. For me, I don't miss CRTs, scanlines and fooling with the color and tint settings.

I'm very much in favor of playing games on the original hardware without any emulation but as far as outputting the graphics, I'm more interested in seeing the games how they *should* look without old technology and CRTs holding them back. Seeing pixel perfect graphics and perfect color like the AVS and HDMI NES mod are going to do, that gets me excited.

There's definitely some nostalgia with scanlines but to me if almost feels like a filter over the graphics and I would rather see them unfiltered and clean.

As far as lag, the AVS should have zero lag in theory. The HDMI NES mod uses the original CPU and PPU without any frame buffer and has zero lag.
Click to expand...

I think emulation altered modern gamers' perspective as to what old games "should" look like.
 
Peltz said:
I think emulation altered modern gamers' perspective as to what old games "should" look like.
Click to expand...
I hope they don't get that idea!!! Though anything that isn't composhite and RF is fine with me as I can't stand them anymore, already put up with it in the 90s, don't need to again.
 
I'm super obsessive over my consoles looking as best they can and as originally intended. RGB + broadcast monitor or bust. That HDMI Nes looks horrible to me
 
RF was always pretty terrible. But I still think I'd prefer it over the HDMI mod 0_0

They're opposite extremes and neither is ideal in my humble opinion.
 
Finished Risa no Yosei Densetsu and Fuun Shorinken Ankoku Maoh today so just two more FDS games and I'll move on to playing my cart collection.
 
IrishNinja said:
so hey can a US toaster NES be modded to work with an FDS somehow? please say yes
Click to expand...
Without heavy modification - Not in any way that doesn't look completely ridiculous. You'd have to use something like a game genie to extentd the cart slot out, then a 60/72 pin adapter, then the FDS interface thing hanging off the front. And you'd get no expansion audio unless you modified the adapter and possibly the game genie.
 
Can anyone explain the technical side of flash carts such as the Everdrive and Powerpack?

I keep seeing that no emulation is involved and that the flash cart simply loads the ROM into memory and the NES/Famicom play the game as if the actual cartridge was inserted.

What I don't understand is if no emulation is involved, why do certain games do not work or do not work properly? Famicom Castlevania 3 for instance has the VRC6 chip for expansion audio. I imagine since the ROM can't access the chip, there has to be some sort of emulation or else there would be no extra audio. The Everdrive has VRC6 support but it's not perfect and doesn't sound as good as the actual cart. Would it be fair to say it has to emulate VRC6?

If this is the case, isn't it also emulating the mappers and other specific functions? Why would those work and others do not?

I'm just rambling at this point but I guess I'm just trying to understand what the NES is actually doing when a ROM is loaded from a flash cart versus what the flash cart is handling. Anyone with some insight?
 
Yes that's correct, if there are any extra chips they have to be emulated.

That's why flash carts for some systems (GBA, DS, Master System, Nintendo 64, TG16) basically have perfect 100% compatibility, because the carts for those systems were all simply just ROM chips. No extras that sent things directly to outputs etc.

The NES is the console with by far the most complex variety of cart hardware. For many years it was thought a flash cart wouldn't even be possible for the NES. The Powerpak outright sucked until some other guys stepped in and wrote a lot of mapper emulation.

So yes, using a flash cart for anything except the most basic bank switching mappers is partly emulation, and that emulation is in many cases in somewhat spotty.
 
IrishNinja said:
so hey can a US toaster NES be modded to work with an FDS somehow? please say yes
Click to expand...

D.Lo said:
Without heavy modification - Not in any way that doesn't look completely ridiculous. You'd have to use something like a game genie to extentd the cart slot out, then a 60/72 pin adapter, then the FDS interface thing hanging off the front. And you'd get no expansion audio unless you modified the adapter and possibly the game genie.
Click to expand...
Join us on Team Famicom, Irish....

(yes I know you're balking at having to RGB mod that too)
 
Is there a way to get a hold of a RGB modden Famicom (with FamiRGB?). I know my soldering/modding skills aren't good enough to get it done so I'd rather either have a pro do it for me, or buy a pre modden one.
Any suggestions? I'm really getting back into my Famicom again and would love to have an RGB modded console to go with my CRT for the best possible picture.
 
Shadowman16 said:
Is there a way to get a hold of a RGB modden Famicom (with FamiRGB?). I know my soldering/modding skills aren't good enough to get it done so I'd rather either have a pro do it for me, or buy a pre modden one.
Any suggestions? I'm really getting back into my Famicom again and would love to have an RGB modded console to go with my CRT for the best possible picture.
Click to expand...

You might try sending a PM to Baphomet. He's done quite a few RGB mods here.

Pre-modded systems are pretty rare to find but pop up occasionally on eBay. They are usually at least $350 though. It would probably be easier to buy a cheap AV Famicom and then pay to have it modded.

Here's an NES Top Loader for instance...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nintendo-NES-Top-Loader-With-NESRGB-Board-MULTI-OUT-RGB-SVIDEO-101-SCART-/261805980292?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf4da3a84
 
D.Lo said:
Without heavy modification - Not in any way that doesn't look completely ridiculous. You'd have to use something like a game genie to extentd the cart slot out, then a 60/72 pin adapter, then the FDS interface thing hanging off the front. And you'd get no expansion audio unless you modified the adapter and possibly the game genie.
Click to expand...

so you're saying there's a chance.jpg

BocoDragon said:
Join us on Team Famicom, Irish....

(yes I know you're balking at having to RGB mod that too)
Click to expand...

very much so, yes
i mean the composite on FDS looks nice but still its a bummer
 
entrement said:
So apparently you can boil, yes boil, 72 pin connectors to clean older ones.

That's pretty crazy!
Click to expand...

It's not really cleaning. By boiling the connectors you're heating up the metal contacts and bending them back into place.
 
entrement said:
I didn't know that. That's kinda funky.
Click to expand...

Yeah. The problem with toaster NES's is that pushing the cartridge tray up and down bends the contacts. It was a fundamental design flaw with the NES. They wanted to make the system look more like a VCR and the reliability of the connector suffered for it.

Some small company actually came up with a new connector and cartridge tray for the NES that essentially aims to solve the fundamental problem for good. Can't speak for the quality but I'm glad at least somebody decided to try and fix that 30 year old mistake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iGRN-Q8kKU
 
^^^ Blinking Light Win has been posted here before and yeah, it looks sweet. Does anyone who's familiar with the RGB mod think that the BLW would in any way impede that? I think it would cool to have an NES with both.
 
IrishNinja said:
001_rg_139.jpg


...thought y'all would wanna know
Click to expand...

I've been reading that issue at the moment (I'm a big fan of the mag, the top 25 Snes RPG's in the latest issue is pretty on point as well).

Its a solid list of NES games as well, I've got pretty much all of them and can't really complain bar only one [spoiler[ Megaman [/spoiler] game making it into the top 25 (albeit almost right at the top). If I had my way I'd have probably included at least 3 of the 6 MM games in a top 25!



dcx4610 said:
You might try sending a PM to Baphomet. He's done quite a few RGB mods here.

Pre-modded systems are pretty rare to find but pop up occasionally on eBay. They are usually at least $350 though. It would probably be easier to buy a cheap AV Famicom and then pay to have it modded.

Here's an NES Top Loader for instance...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nintendo-NES-Top-Loader-With-NESRGB-Board-MULTI-OUT-RGB-SVIDEO-101-SCART-/261805980292?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf4da3a84
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up, I'll take a look into these options.
 
yeah, i missed that snes rpg issue due to a move somehow, but i was just saying to Mzo about the top 25 NES ones that the list would be a lot more interesting for me if you took off first party games...i mean, at least 10 are done right there.
 
IrishNinja said:
yeah, i missed that snes rpg issue due to a move somehow, but i was just saying to Mzo about the top 25 NES ones that the list would be a lot more interesting for me if you took off first party games...i mean, at least 10 are done right there.
Click to expand...

A top 10/25 hidden gems list might have been better, I mean for me especially I'm aware of all the mainstream games that Nintendo/Capcom/Konami released back then, most of the fun now is tracking down the lesser know stuff. Case in point I somewhat recently grabbed the Famicom Star Wars game just because it was very different in comparison to the USA/Euro release. I'd like to read about more stuff like that, and odd stuff like All Night Nippon Super Mario Bros (ok that one is technically a first party title, but an odd one at that in some ways!)
 
That replacement tray/connector concerns me. The video doesn't show how difficult it is to insert and remove games with the system fully assembled. The demonstrator had to use both hands to get the cart to lock into place and it sounded very tight, similar to the "death grip" replacement connectors you can buy now. My NES games currently slide in and out of place with almost no effort.
 
dcx4610 said:
Can anyone explain the technical side of flash carts such as the Everdrive and Powerpack?

I keep seeing that no emulation is involved and that the flash cart simply loads the ROM into memory and the NES/Famicom play the game as if the actual cartridge was inserted.

What I don't understand is if no emulation is involved, why do certain games do not work or do not work properly? Famicom Castlevania 3 for instance has the VRC6 chip for expansion audio. I imagine since the ROM can't access the chip, there has to be some sort of emulation or else there would be no extra audio. The Everdrive has VRC6 support but it's not perfect and doesn't sound as good as the actual cart. Would it be fair to say it has to emulate VRC6?

If this is the case, isn't it also emulating the mappers and other specific functions? Why would those work and others do not?

I'm just rambling at this point but I guess I'm just trying to understand what the NES is actually doing when a ROM is loaded from a flash cart versus what the flash cart is handling. Anyone with some insight?
Click to expand...

I've used my PowerPak to play Castlevania 3 on my front-loader NES and it works great, but we had to perform a small mod to the board to get it to work.

Here's the guide we used: http://www.retrofixes.com/2014/05/open-hidden-sound-channels-in-nes.html

Also, I have a set of pins coming in that don't require me to press down in the front loader, but I can't recall the name of them right now. When I get them and install them I'll post impressions.
 
Zing said:
That replacement tray/connector concerns me. The video doesn't show how difficult it is to insert and remove games with the system fully assembled. The demonstrator had to use both hands to get the cart to lock into place and it sounded very tight, similar to the "death grip" replacement connectors you can buy now. My NES games currently slide in and out of place with almost no effort.
Click to expand...

I have the same concern and voiced it a few pages back. People commenting on the YT vid are saying the same thing. It looks like it slides pretty easily in and out to me, but it's not exactly a real-life demonstration with it half assembled like that. As always, I'll wait for impressions.
 
OnPoint said:
I've used my PowerPak to play Castlevania 3 on my front-loader NES and it works great, but we had to perform a small mod to the board to get it to work.

Here's the guide we used: http://www.retrofixes.com/2014/05/open-hidden-sound-channels-in-nes.html

Also, I have a set of pins coming in that don't require me to press down in the front loader, but I can't recall the name of them right now. When I get them and install them I'll post impressions.
Click to expand...

It sounds fine on both but it's technically emulation or recreation. The Everdrive and Powerpak are not directly accessing the VRC6 chip but taking the ROM instructions and handing them off to the NES. The NES is processing the information as if the chip is present if your system is modded for expansion audio or if you have a Famicom but the flash cart is emulating the chip.

If you compare the actual cart to the ROM, it's definitely different and not accurate. Another example is Famicom disk games which sound way off. For games with special chips that I love, I just buy the real thing.
 
dcx4610 said:
It sounds fine on both but it's technically emulation or recreation. The Everdrive and Powerpak are not directly accessing the VRC6 chip but taking the ROM instructions and handing them off to the NES. The NES is processing the information as if the chip is present if your system is modded for expansion audio or if you have a Famicom but the flash cart is emulating the chip.

If you compare the actual cart to the ROM, it's definitely different and not accurate. Another example is Famicom disk games which sound way off. For games with special chips that I love, I just buy the real thing.
Click to expand...

You know, you could be right. I'm not too up on the subtleties of Castlevania III's VRC6 soundtrack (doesn't help that I prefer the US version anyway). At a casual glance, it sounded good, but I didn't really dig. Honestly, I've been using my PowerPak to play my own Famitracker songs and they sound exactly how they sound in Famitracker, VRC6 channels and all.
 
ZealousD said:
Yeah. The problem with toaster NES's is that pushing the cartridge tray up and down bends the contacts. It was a fundamental design flaw with the NES. They wanted to make the system look more like a VCR and the reliability of the connector suffered for it.

Some small company actually came up with a new connector and cartridge tray for the NES that essentially aims to solve the fundamental problem for good. Can't speak for the quality but I'm glad at least somebody decided to try and fix that 30 year old mistake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iGRN-Q8kKU
Click to expand...

So this isn't a problem with NES 2 or AV Famicoms then?
 
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