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Netherlands stops Turkish foreign minister's plane from landing

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S

Salty Rice

Member
Its funny how he calls everybody a nazi.

He should look more into the mirror.

Hope germany gonna stop kissing his ass at some point.
 
P

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Good for the Netherlands! Erdogan is awful and his reaction is expected.

Veidt said:
Lets be honest, Turkey had no chance to join. There was a time Turkey would have done its best and complied and be european, but too many EU members have had an irrational hatred for Turkey.
And to put it bluntly, it is because Turkey is a majority Muslim country.

The prejudicial rejection these countries posed, has driven Turkey right into the arms of danger. Turkey would have been a better member than a number of EU countries I can think of.
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HW5t8uD.gif
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You claim it's an "irrational hatred for Turkey", but then Turkey turns around and elects a complete asshole autocrat named Erdogan who wants to undo the more secular history of Turkey. A man who has huge public support in Turkey for doing just that. Pick one.

Clearly they didn't do their best since they never came close to the admittance standards at any point, nor is the vast, vast majority of the country in Europe anyway.

Turkey did this to itself. Stop blaming others and take a look in the mirror.
 
SkylineRKR

SkylineRKR

Member
Erdogan is a tool.

He calls us Nazi's for what exactly? For staging a coup to rout out his enemies and trying to create a totalitarian state like he does? Why the fuck should we allow rallies about Turkish politics? And that wasn't even the issue, its actually that they started to talk shit about sanctions.

We were victims of Nazism once, this psychopath has no place in the EU.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
campaigining for election OUTSIDE of your own country should be illegal.

I understand they are trying to take advantage of expat votes abroad but seriously it is unethical.

I'm a dually (Portuguese and Canadian) and I never ever vote in Portuguese elections because it is not ethically right for me to influence the elections of a country that I have not lived in for 4 decades. That's my opinion.
 
T

Theorry

Member
gutter_trash said:
campaigining for election OUTSIDE of your own country should be illegal.

I understand they are trying to take advantage of expat votes abroad but seriously it is unethical.

I'm a dually (Portuguese and Canadian) and I never ever vote in Portuguese elections because it is not ethically right for me to influence the elections of a country that I have not lived in for 4 decades. That's my opinion.
Click to expand...

Funny thing is, There is even a law in Turkye from 2008 wich says its not allowed lol.
 
F

Frustrated_me

Member
Islamists who are politically energized are one of the most dangerous groups of people. Once they take over they will corrupt, poison and slowly kill off any opposing society. This is exactly what they did in Turkey and it is exactly what they will do if ever invited into the EU.

Europeans need to ensure they do whatever it takes to not allow Turkey in. I say this as a Turkish born citizen.
 
J

Joni

Member
It is time for some rules, like you can't campaign inside the EU for elections outside the EU and like you can only vote in only one's country elections.

Frustrated_me said:
Islamists who are politically energized are one of the most dangerous groups of people. Once they take over they will corrupt, poison and slowly kill off any opposing society. This is exactly what they did in Turkey and it is exactly what they will do if ever invited into the EU.

Europeans need to ensure they do whatever it takes to not allow Turkey in. I say this as a Turkish born citizen.
Click to expand...

The only country that wants Turkey in the EU is leaving the EU.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Joni said:
It is time for some rules, like you can't campaign inside the EU for elections outside the EU and like you can only vote in only one's country elections.



The only country that wants Turkey in the EU is leaving the EU.
Click to expand...

The EU should pass a law barring rallies of foreign elections campaigning on EU soil.
 
N

norinrad

Member
I find it disturbing that she using the words, her citizens. Wtf, they are not your citizens, they are Dutch citizens even if they don't feel that way.
 
S

sensi97

Member
Joni said:
It is time for some rules, like you can't campaign inside the EU for elections outside the EU and like you can only vote in only one's country elections.
Click to expand...

gutter_trash said:
The EU should pass a law barring rallies of foreign elections campaigning on EU soil.
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I can't see this happening. In France, french politics frequently visit expatriates and campaign in foreign countries (for french elections where these can vote for like the senat and parliament).
In a similar way, local representatives of US Democrats and Republicans campaigned in France during the last US presidential election.
Is that rule going to apply to them too ?
 
J

Joni

Member
Ros8105 said:
Wow. What are they trying to do here?
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Same thing they are trying to do by for instance claiming a Belgian minister of Turkish descent is pro-Kurds and hates Turks. Making sure that the Turks in Europe feel patriotic and support Erdogan.
 
J

Jacobs

Member
Seems there are a few Turkish protesters from Germany, strange.

Another one: "Turkey has the best democracy in the world."
 
I

iddqd

Member
So what are the dutch here saying? Anything I should read on reddit that is balanced?
It's super interesting to see the Turkish Government play the victim role here, similar to how Trump administration in the US has been doing it. Use the language of the other side and pervert it (see also Fake news).
 
G

Gangster Bastard

Member
EleventhHourSuperpower said:
You claim it's an "irrational hatred for Turkey", but then Turkey turns around and elects a complete asshole autocrat named Erdogan who wants to undo the more secular history of Turkey. A man who has huge public support in Turkey for doing just that. Pick one.

Clearly they didn't do their best since they never came close to the admittance standards at any point, nor is the vast, vast majority of the country in Europe anyway.

Turkey did this to itself. Stop blaming others and take a look in the mirror.
Click to expand...

"Irrational hatred" is a strong way to put it, but there's definitely a deep rooted cultural and historical divide. Whether they realize it or not I think most people's idea of Europe as a cultural unit more or less = Christendom. In that context Turkey is not just an outsider, it's a historical nemesis. Given the atmosphere of the present, how could that not be an issue?
 
A

AFCA

Neo Member
For the first time since many years I'am proud at our (dutch) ministers. A country should never bow for a foreign dictator. Germany (Angie) should be taking notes.

(On the other side, I don't think our ministers would have taken those decisions if their was no election next week. Lately a lot of parties are trying to steal voters from Wilders (PVV) by making more 'right wing' decisions.)
 
D

Dehnus

Member
AFCA said:
For the first time since many years I'am proud at our (dutch) ministers. A country should never bow for a foreign dictator. Germany (Angie) should be taking notes.

(On the other side, I don't think our ministers would have taken those decisions if their was no election next week. Lately a lot of parties are trying to steal voters from Wilders (PVV) by making more 'right wing' decisions.)
Click to expand...

It actually wasn't that smart, It was electoral. And it backfired, as the way the Turkish Minority is responding to this is fueling the votes for the PVV rather than the VVD. On top of that it also backfired in Turkey. Erdogan could abuse this to no end to act like the victim and to get more people to vote for his referendum rather then against. It was basically handing him it on a silver platter, just to please a few voters, not the smartest move.

Third way it wend wrong? NATO. Turkey is a Nato partner until the others can get rid of it, this makes NATO as a whole look bad and is right up the alley of rasPutin. It would have been better to just let the man speak, rather than make it into this spectacle and do EXACTLY what Erdogan wants. Soon Putin, to truly rub salt in the wounds, will offer a membership to the "Eurasian Confederation" to Erdogan, just for the LULZ.

Your Prime Minister did not get what he wanted, the electoral votes of the PVV, as really the next following days will make sure of that. Bastard Erdogan got what he wanted, and NATO looks like an ass. Diplomacy wise, this is a major fuck up, especially for Turkish people in cities that don't like Erdogan one bit. Prepare for the next flight of refugees as Erdogan institutes a ruthless dictatorship that is closer to a Ottoman Empire than a Secular Turkish Republic.
 
D

dragonelite

Member
Dehnus said:
It actually wasn't that smart, It was electoral. And it backfired, as the way the Turkish Minority is responding to this is fueling the votes for the PVV rather than the VVD. On top of that it also backfired in Turkey. Erdogan could abuse this to no end to act like the victim and to get more people to vote for his referendum rather then against. It was basically handing him it on a silver platter, just to please a few voters, not the smartest.

Third way it wend wrong? NATO. Turkey is a Nato partner until the others can get rid of it, this makes NATO as a whole look bad and is right up the alley of rasPutin. It would have been better to just let the man speak, rather than make it into this spectacle and do EXACTLY what Erdogan wants. Soon Putin, to truly rub salt in the wounds, will offer a membership to the "Eurasian Confederation" to Erdogan, just for the LULZ.

Your Prime Minister did not get what he wanted, the electoral votes of the PVV, as really the next following days will make sure of that. Bastard Erdogan got what he wanted, and NATO looks like an ass. Diplomacy wise, this is a major fuck up, especially for Turkish people in cities that don't like Erdogan one bit. Prepare for the next flight of refugees as Erdogan institutes a ruthless dictatorship that is closer to a Ottoman Empire than a Secular Turkish Republic.
Click to expand...

Don't think this will make more people go vote pvv, you are probably seeing pvv internet trolls.
 
D

Dehnus

Member
dragonelite said:
Don't think this will make more people go vote pvv, you are probably seeing pvv internet trolls.
Click to expand...

That all depends on how the Turkish Minority in the Netherlands will behave in the coming days. From what we see right now, it doesn't bode well. If they start rioting? You just KNOW that the PVV will get an electoral win out of this whole thing.
 
W

WingM@n

Member
Dutch special police forces, armed with rifles, arrived at the Turkisch consulate. They are going to arrest her? Wow
 
V

Veidt

Blasphemer who refuses to accept bagged milk as his personal savior
Dehnus said:
That all depends on how the Turkish Minority in the Netherlands will behave in the coming days. From what we see right now, it doesn't bode well. If they start rioting? You just KNOW that the PVV will get an electoral win out of this whole thing.
Click to expand...
The election is in less than 4 days. Lets hope nothing happens. If they riot, it wont automatically mean votes for PVV either.
 
P

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Gangster Bastard said:
"Irrational hatred" is a strong way to put it, but there's definitely a deep rooted cultural and historical divide. Whether they realize it or not I think most people's idea of Europe as a cultural unit more or less = Christendom. In that context Turkey is not just an outsider, it's a historical nemesis. Given the atmosphere of the present, how could that not be an issue?
Click to expand...

You say Christendom, but what about secularism? It doesn't seem like many Turks have ever been comfortable with Ataturk's reforms, nor did Turkey ever make an effort like the Eastern European nations made to accede to the EU and its high standard for civil liberties.

So if secularism and later the liberal reforms the EU demanded were met with backlash or ignorance there, then there really was nothing to discuss. The vision of Turkey as being aggressively secular (a good thing) was sadly just that, a vision. To fit with Europe as was desired, that requires some serious and intense cultural change bordering on transformation. It never fully happened, and it's now all been reversed, sadly.
 
A

Alanae

Member
Dehnus said:
It actually wasn't that smart, It was electoral. And it backfired, as the way the Turkish Minority is responding to this is fueling the votes for the PVV rather than the VVD. On top of that it also backfired in Turkey. Erdogan could abuse this to no end to act like the victim and to get more people to vote for his referendum rather then against. It was basically handing him it on a silver platter, just to please a few voters, not the smartest.

Third way it wend wrong? NATO. Turkey is a Nato partner until the others can get rid of it, this makes NATO as a whole look bad and is right up the alley of rasPutin. It would have been better to just let the man speak, rather than make it into this spectacle and do EXACTLY what Erdogan wants. Soon Putin, to truly rub salt in the wounds, will offer a membership to the "Eurasian Confederation" to Erdogan, just for the LULZ.

Your Prime Minister did not get what he wanted, the electoral votes of the PVV, as really the next following days will make sure of that. Bastard Erdogan got what he wanted, and NATO looks like an ass. Diplomacy wise, this is a major fuck up, especially for Turkish people in cities that don't like Erdogan one bit. Prepare for the next flight of refugees as Erdogan institutes a ruthless dictatorship that is closer to a Ottoman Empire than a Secular Turkish Republic.
Click to expand...
As opposed to letting the rallying for the purpose of letting a dictator come to power go unaposed?
Most of the things you mention would also occur if that would have happened instead.
PVV would have used it to claim that the current government has no spine/etc. in order to win voters.
Turkey would have used the rally for the referendum to... get people to vote for the referendum.
Either way those things would have been the case.
At some point one is going to have to look beyond reacting to the high level mindgames which for some reason always end up with you playing into the secret master plan of those that play them no matter what you do and stand up for what is right.
 
S

sechsterangriff

Member
Gangster Bastard said:
"Irrational hatred" is a strong way to put it, but there's definitely a deep rooted cultural and historical divide. Whether they realize it or not I think most people's idea of Europe as a cultural unit more or less = Christendom. In that context Turkey is not just an outsider, it's a historical nemesis. Given the atmosphere of the present, how could that not be an issue?
Click to expand...
If it really was seen as an"historical nemesis" as you say, EU membership wouldn't have been even on the table to begin with. I can see some animosity from Greece because of their shared history, but aside from that I believe the long term idea that a secular democratic Turkey that has resolved its human rights issues would make a stronger EU did persist among EU leaders for a long time. The thing is Turkey's democracy never fully matured (on the contrary) and their issues with the Kurdish people also never came close to being resolved. In a time when we look at Hungary's and Poland's increasingly hard right and potentially authoritarian governments with apprehension, in a time when everyone is increasingly wary of radicalism and populism, a character like Erdogan couldn't possibly ever help in that cause.
 
H

hobblygobbly

Member
Wilders and people like Trump give so much ammunition to people like Erdogan. Erdogan is just like them, but Erdogan will use "see, the west doesn't want you" as well.

All these idiots are on the same coin, just different faces.
 
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