Support NeoGAF

[Affeinvasion]

It almost certainly started as a pejorative from Euro--game-only gamers, but Ameritrash gamers kind of took it up as a badge of honor. When I first heard the term I thought it just referred to the huge amount of cardboard and dinky plastic pieces that are everywhere in those games.

 

[AstroLad]

It almost certainly started as a pejorative from Euro--game-only gamers, but Ameritrash gamers kind of took it up as a badge of honor. When I first heard the term I thought it just referred to the huge amount of cardboard and dinky plastic pieces that are everywhere in those games.

Yeah exactly. It's almost like how people say "pasted-on theme" (like me ) or "point salad" and it was originally pejorative but now it's often not. Feld point salad? Yummy!

 

[Lyng]

Feld point salad? Yummy!

Feld point salad is best salad! nom nom nom

 

[Boogiepop]

Also, any slightly more off the wall/less common suggestions as a back-up/addition/future addition? Like, I know he's had a lot of fun with stuff like Catan, Tsuro, Carcassonne, Survive, etc in the past, so I guess I'm looking for something that's good but he may not know?

Edit: Actually, any particularly great expansions/alternate versions for those/other well known board games? As I believe he hasn't delved into such things...

Reiterating this part of my question, as I'm now looking to hit the $100 threshold on Coolstuffinc for free shipping. The Risk: Legacy hits the $40 point, but I need to work in a bit more and need to figure out a direction. His Catan's actually destroyed and needs to be replaced, so that's an option, though that's unfortunately not terribly discounted right now, which is a shame.

Any good choices from their Black Friday deals, outside of Smash Up and X-com (which he already has access to)?

 

[platypotamus]

I'm not familiar with point salads. What are those? Is this a weight watchers thing?

 

[Blizzard]

I'm not familiar with point salads. What are those? Is this a weight watchers thing?

I think the term refers to games that give you victory points for several different things. A salad has several things jumbled together.

For example, you might get victory points for winning battles, but also get victory points for owning buildings, but also get victory points for having a technology bonus, but also ... etc.

 

[Morfeo]

I think GoT is way, way, way more approachable than twilight imperium. It's not as long and it's a lot more straightforward from a mechanics standpoint. GoT is in my top 5 games. I'll probably never play TI again even though I like it in theory.

I have to assume GoT is more popular. It's got an absurdly popular license instead of "space cats and space turtles!", it is way more approachable (often suggested as a step up from Risk), and takes 2-4 hours instead of 10.

Like, I'd play Game of Thrones with anyone that I've played board games with before. Twilight Imperium is something I'd only suggest for a pretty small subset of that group. Only crazy people want to play a thing for 10 hours over a day or two.

TI might come up more often as the hyperbolic ideal form of an Ameritrash game, but in terms of people buying and playing I'd assume GoT wins by a mile.

Ok thanks!

So what are some other good strategy games that maybe are a few steps up from GoT?

 

[Affeinvasion]

Point Salads are games where you accrue victory points by doing a large number of banal things over and over again so that you are tricked into thinking it's a good game because you never know who is winning at any given point.

There are point salad games that I enjoy, but it's mostly in spite of that aspect of the game. Feld makes some good ones but he also makes some horrendous ones, imo. Point salad games, I imagine, are really hard to balance/play test so designers who make a lot of them get a lot of credit when they come up with a good one. But I prefer designers to make more elegant, tactical games rather than pick a strategy or "do whatever you want and hope you win."

 

[Dryk]

Gained a space? Get 2 VP!
Rolled the dice? Get 1 VP!
Lost a space? Get 1 VP!
Played a card? Get 2 VP!
Got up to go to the bathroom? That's probably worth a VP!
Got 10 VP in a turn? Go ahead and take another VP!

Ok thanks!

So what are some other good strategy games that maybe are a few steps up from GoT?

I've been trying to figure this out all year. I really like GoT, my group really likes Risk & Ikusa. I have no idea what good trashy area control games to look at that aren't TI3 which is too long.

 

[Blizzard]

I like games where you can win in different ways, and that's presumably what they're aiming for. This especially becomes true if you play a game 1v1 several times, and one particular strategy pops out as overpoweringly strong.

I've been trying to figure this out all year. I really like GoT, my group really likes Risk & Ikusa. I have no idea what good trashy area control games to look at that aren't TI3 which is too long.

If anyone is into Greek mythology in your group, you MIGHT try Cyclades. It's an area control game like a tiny Risk, but mostly involves squatting on islands and avoiding combat while you build up secret gold and bid on powers to improve your empire. Presumably the expansions add more depth and combat, but I would play it so rarely I probably won't get the expansions.

 

[Affeinvasion]

Ok thanks!

So what are some other good strategy games that maybe are a few steps up from GoT?

I don't know if it's really a "step up" since GoT can be a 4 hour game, but Kemet might be what you're looking for. Maybe Twilight Struggle if you want a two-player game, but I'm not a big fan of the game. I like Duel of Ages II but it's a pretty janky experience. I would compare it to those bug-riddled cRPGs that came out of Eastern Europe. It's a fun experience, but it's more of a game system and a cool idea more than it is a great, well put together game. The Mage Knight board game is a step up in complexity from GoT, but it's not really an area-control PvP style game. Shogun and Wallenstein might be ones to look at (if you like Japan or Europe respectively), though I'm not sure they are more complex than GoT, either.

 

[super-famicom]

Any term with "trash" in it automatically has a negative connotation to me, but maybe it's a regional/English language thing.

Same here, it took me a while to realize that using Ameritrash to describe a game didn't mean it was a bad game. I still think it, sometimes.

 

[Karkador]

I've been trying to figure this out all year. I really like GoT, my group really likes Risk & Ikusa. I have no idea what good trashy area control games to look at that aren't TI3 which is too long.

Maybe look into Rex? Or Cosmic Encounter.

 

[platypotamus]

Well, now I know. Castles of Burgundy is considered one of the good point salads, I'm guessing, since we mention Feld? Does 7 wonders count? Lots of paths to points there. Otherwise I'm not sure what else I've played that would count, but I like those two a lot so maybe I like point salads, or maybe I just got lucky and played only good ones.

 

[Dryk]

I don't know if it's really a "step up" since GoT can be a 4 hour game, but Kemet might be what you're looking for.

I think my group would probably enjoy Kemet, but it will probably leave us wanting if we try to use it to scratch the same itch as Risk. It will do the mashing dudes together part great but it lacks the aspect of carving out and defending a territory, which was something that I found Ikusa does really well when I played it at my mate's recently.

Shogun and Wallenstein might be ones to look at (if you like Japan or Europe respectively), though I'm not sure they are more complex than GoT, either.

Conversely I still haven't gotten around to reading the rules for Shogun but I've read that it might be a bit too Euro.

Maybe look into Rex? Or Cosmic Encounter.

Rex is near the top of my Christmas shortlist

Even if it fails to fill that niche it looks really interesting and fun. I explained the battle system to a few people and it's great fun mentioning that you lose your committed units as the very last thing and watching their faces change as the lightbulb goes off.

 

[AstroLad]

Well, now I know. Castles of Burgundy is considered one of the good point salads, I'm guessing, since we mention Feld? Does 7 wonders count? Lots of paths to points there. Otherwise I'm not sure what else I've played that would count, but I like those two a lot so maybe I like point salads, or maybe I just got lucky and played only good ones.

Agricola and most Rosenberg games are point salad. Agricola aggressively so given how the scoring works. Tokaido is a lighter point salad.

 

[JSR_Cube]

I would also recommend Chaos in the Old World or the new Blood Rage in addition to those games already mentioned.

The problem is that there honestly aren't many games better than AGoT for scratching that area control itch that doesn't spiral into either a rulesfest or a dicefest.

 

[bucknuticus]

Hi guys,

Im semi new to the board game world and now that im out of my Apartment i actually have room for boardgame nights. I currently have and like tickets to ride and pandemic + 2 expansions.

What else would you recommend? Groups would likely always be 4-6 people.

 

[Dryk]

I would also recommend Chaos in the Old World or the new Blood Rage in addition to those games already mentioned.

Been looking into them, do either of them hold together okay with their 5-player expansions?

The problem is that there honestly aren't many games better than AGoT for scratching that area control itch that doesn't spiral into either a rulesfest or a dicefest.

Yeah I think one day I'm going to have to come to terms with the fact that GoT does it best and I'm not the one that owns it.

 

[joeyjoejoeshabadoo]

La Granja is another point salad game. Possibly the best Feld game designed by someone who is not named Stephan Feld.

Agricola and most Rosenberg games are point salad. Agricola aggressively so given how the scoring works. Tokaido is a lighter point salad.

With Rosenberg's games it's less about acquiring points as it is staving off a negative score.

Been looking into them, do either of them hold together okay with their 5-player expansions?

I've played Chaos five player and read the rules for Blood Rage.

No to Chaos in the Old World. It was designed as a four player game and playing it with any less or more doesn't do the game justice. Blood Rage, on the other hand, doesn't seem like adding a fifth player should hurt the game at all.

 

[AstroLad]

La Granja is another point salad game. Possibly the best Feld game designed by someone who is not named Stephan Feld.


With Rosenberg's games it's less about acquiring points as it is staving off a negative score.

Haha yeah, but with Agricola basically every action you take will get you points of some flavor.

 

[Karkador]

Agricola and most Rosenberg games are point salad. Agricola aggressively so given how the scoring works. Tokaido is a lighter point salad.

You know what, though, I really like filling out those scoresheets with different things at the end of Agricola and 7 Wonders. I kind of want to make scorepads for all my games.

 

[platypotamus]

Oh right, the Rosenbergs. Yeah I think I just like point salads!

 

[Dryk]

No to Chaos in the Old World. It was designed as a four player game and playing it with any less or more doesn't do the game justice.

Might have to go on the backburner until I'm more comfortable buying games for lower player counts then. It does seem really engaging though.

 

[Ecto311]

Just got a copy of code names from amazon. Any house rules or other things to know of before attempting to play on thanksgiving?

 

[AstroLad]

Just got a copy of code names from amazon. Any house rules or other things to know of before attempting to play on thanksgiving?

Not too much. Just read the short rules carefully to understand the boundaries of cluegiving (basically your clue has to relate to the meaning of the words you're trying to get people to pick and the number itself can't be a clue to anything other than how many you want the team to guess). Number of people on each team is irrelevant, but definitely play with at least six players so you can have discussions.

 

[JSR_Cube]

Might have to go on the backburner until I'm more comfortable buying games for lower player counts then. It does seem really engaging though.

Ya, Chaos isn't best with five.

I have played Blood Rage with five and it is good though.

 

[Blizzard]

Asking one more time in case it got buried on the previous page: Does anyone have good/bad opinions of Stronghold? I'm wondering if the new Robinson Crusoe edition is likely to be better / decent quality, or if I should grab the old one before the remake.

 

[Femmeworth]

The game us going back to Stronghold and they will be releasing their own edition next year.

You mean Portal Games.

 

[AbsolutBro]

Twilight Imperium terrifies me. Just the idea of a game taking basically an entire day seems like so much...effort. Not to mention awkward to plan. How do people manage it?

Yeah, that's basically it. I think it is also the theme. If you want to play a game where you can theoretically simulate every part of a crazy space opera with your friends Twilight Imperium is the game for you.

The game gives you lots of options on how you play, it's not a game that can be broken down into numbers or I win situation. You play out actual politics and conflict on a small scale table setting. The game also tends to go long because of how it starts and players will spend several rounds just building up their little corner of the galaxy before really interacting with the other players.

Yeah, I-mmmm mostly sad I missed discussion of TI. Ultron basically covered it all. The objective of the game is to get 10 victory points. There are a couple ways to get victory points, so there are a couple ways to play the game.

1. Secret mission. Everyone gets one at the start, usually worth 2VP. Some require you to get certain tech upgrades, some require you to conquer enemy home worlds.

2. Public missions. One of the "action" cards puts a new public mission into play. Anyone can complete 1 of these each turn. The first so many are worth 1 VP, the rest are worth 2 VPs. So the more in play, the more VP are available. Most are fairly conflict neutral things like "I spend x trade goods", "I spend x influence".

3. Imperial. One of the "action" cards is worth 2 VP when played.

It really is one of my favorite games, but finding a game can be extremely difficult. Even among my friends who showed me the game, they don't always want to spend the hours dedicated to just one game. And our games can get a little... heated.

 

[super-famicom]

Just got a copy of code names from amazon. Any house rules or other things to know of before attempting to play on thanksgiving?

If you need a timer, the companion app is free to download on iOS or Google Play. Has the grid layouts for spymasters as well.

 

[antiquegamer]

You mean Portal Games.

Yes, that is what I meant. I am mixing up the two because they are working together and I often listen to their podcast.

This may be the first time I've ever heard Twilight Imperium described as "Ameritrash" in any form.

Any ideas on whether the new edition will be better or worse? I don't know much about Stronghold.

The Polish edition of Robinson Crusoe is published by Portal and I got some of the promo items from Portal Games and aside from some of the size differences they are just as nice. Keep in mind though when the next expansion come out (the Cthulhu island) it will be Portal edition only, so if you are in no hurry to get the game then you might as well wait for that edition because the card sizes etc. will be difference from the Z-Man one. That said I don't know what the time frame is for Portal one. Ignacy said on BGG that if there are any changes, they will offer upgrade kit for those with Z-Man Games edition. According to BGG (which is down at the moment) the Portal version have nice components. I also noticed that the game isn't being offer any longer on Portal store so may be they are waiting to publish the 2nd edition of the game and letting the current one go out of print.

Great game though, even if the rule can be a little hard to follow. (cheat sheet on BGG help a lot)

 

[Blizzard]

Yes, that is what I meant. I am mixing up the two because they are working together and I often listen to their podcast.



The Polish edition of Robinson Crusoe is published by Portal and I got some of the promo items from Portal Games and aside from some of the size differences they are just as nice. Keep in mind though when the next expansion come out (the Cthulhu island) it will be Portal edition only, so if you are in no hurry to get the game then might as well wait for that edition because the card size etc. will be difference from the Z-Man one. That said I don't know what the time frame is for Portal one. Ignacy said on BGG that if there are any changes, they will offer upgrade kit for those with Z-Man Games edition. According to BGG (which is down at the moment) the Portal version have nice components. I also noticed that the game isn't being offer any longer on Portal stores so may be they are waiting to publish 2nd edition and the game letting the current one go out of print.

Great game though, even if the rule can be a little hard to follow. (cheat sheet on BGG help a lot)

Thanks! I suppose I will wait until next Christmas and hope the new edition is out by then.

 

[Lyng]

Point Salads are games where you accrue victory points by doing a large number of banal things over and over again so that you are tricked into thinking it's a good game because you never know who is winning at any given point.

There are point salad games that I enjoy, but it's mostly in spite of that aspect of the game. Feld makes some good ones but he also makes some horrendous ones, imo. Point salad games, I imagine, are really hard to balance/play test so designers who make a lot of them get a lot of credit when they come up with a good one. But I prefer designers to make more elegant, tactical games rather than pick a strategy or "do whatever you want and hope you win."

What I like about good point salad games such as Trajan, Aquasphere or CoB is that they force you to create a strategy where you are efficient with every move and dont just try to score points here and there.
If you just do whatever to get points you will get schooled by anyone who is going after specifikt strategies.

 

[Morfeo]

Thanks for the answer on a slightly heavier GoT-type game, sucks there doesnt seem to be to many good alternatives. I really enjoyed the game Empire in Arms back in the day, which was more like a six month thing were we met to continue the campaign every sunday. Guess im looking for something similar, that can be completed in a day (or weekend at most).

 

[JSR_Cube]

Fief is also heavier but not better.

Warrior Knights and the new Mare Nostrum Empires are also worth a look.

 

[Karkador]

Thanks for the answer on a slightly heavier GoT-type game, sucks there doesnt seem to be to many good alternatives. I really enjoyed the game Empire in Arms back in the day, which was more like a six month thing were we met to continue the campaign every sunday. Guess im looking for something similar, that can be completed in a day (or weekend at most).

I'm almost certain it exists, we just have to dig a little deeper

 

[JSR_Cube]

Has anyone messed around with Tabletopia? I'm really not a fan of the subscription model but I see more and more games offering demos on it. Has anyone tried it? Any comparisons to Tabletop Simulator?

 

[espher]

Playing Machi Koro the standard way allows one strategy (furniture factory with forests and mines; alternatively cheese factories) to absolutely break the game. In my experience, it ended up not being fun for the people who didn't follow that particular strategy.

The 10 card variant improves things a lot in my experience. One of the expansions actually lists the variant in its rules.

Edit- has anyone purchased the Machi Koro Deluxe Edition with all the expansions included? I am tempted to go that route sinces I only have the base game and I've heard the card size changed in the expansions, but reviews have been lackluster. People had a missing card or two, and warping/faded colors on the cards.

Should clarify that we're playing kind of in between both setups. We take one of each card and shuffle it into a randomizer deck, then deal out ten cards at random. We then grab the remaining copies of each of those cards and stack them on the randomizer, so all six (or whatever) cards of any given type are available for purchase. When a stack is depleted, we grab a new randomizer and put the full stack of that card in play. We're thinking of leaving the purples in their own deck and putting two of those in play at any given time following the regular random 10 variant rule for determining them, because it's kind of meh when the same ones are available for everyone.

Seems to lead to a faster game than the pure random ten, since there is potential to still try and build an engine/strat, but doesn't have the 'solved game' nature of the original since you're still not sure which piles will turn up when. I went ham on Wheat Fields and Fruit and Vegetable Factories in a game and it got a little crazy with the coin generation.

I purchased the Deluxe a week ago - card stock is meh and cards were a little curved/warped (I sleeved everything though and they've evened out for the most part since), but didn't encounter any of the problems others mentioned (had the right card counts, dice were fine, etc).

 

[Femmeworth]

Welp, made a big order at Cardhaus.

Name Ordered Shipped Price
Flash Point: Fire Rescue - 2nd Story
Condition: Brand New 1 1 $9.99
Flash Point: Fire Rescue - Extreme Danger
Condition: Brand New 1 1 $25.99
Machi Koro
Condition: Brand New 1 1 $14.99
Pandemic: Legacy Season 1 - Blue
Condition: Brand New 1 1 $42.99
Love Letter: Adventure Time (Clamshell)
Condition: Brand New 1 1 $5.39
Machi Koro: Harbor Expansion
Condition: Brand New 1 1 $8.99
Fantasy Flight Sleeves FFS03 - Green
Condition: Brand New 4 4 $2.49
Fantasy Flight Sleeves FFS05 - Gray
Condition: Brand New 6 6 $2.69

 

[Lyng]

Fief is also heavier but not better.

Warrior Knights and the new Mare Nostrum Empires are also worth a look.

Warrior Knights is only really good with the expansion though...

 

[zulux21]

Welp, made a big order at Cardhaus.

Name Ordered Shipped Price
Flash Point: Fire Rescue - 2nd Story
Condition: Brand New 1 1 $9.99
Flash Point: Fire Rescue - Extreme Danger
Condition: Brand New 1 1 $25.99
Machi Koro
Condition: Brand New 1 1 $14.99
Pandemic: Legacy Season 1 - Blue
Condition: Brand New 1 1 $42.99
Love Letter: Adventure Time (Clamshell)
Condition: Brand New 1 1 $5.39
Machi Koro: Harbor Expansion
Condition: Brand New 1 1 $8.99
Fantasy Flight Sleeves FFS03 - Green
Condition: Brand New 4 4 $2.49
Fantasy Flight Sleeves FFS05 - Gray
Condition: Brand New 6 6 $2.69

as did I

hopefully sheriff is fun as I keep hearing good things about it.

 

[Slacker]

Stared at 504 for a long time in the FLGS today. I love the idea of the game, but can't figure out whether that idea translates into a great gaming experience, or if it's worth 100 bucks to find out. Anyone have any experience with it?

 

[antiquegamer]

Stared at 504 for a long time in the FLGS today. I love the idea of the game, but can't figure out whether that idea translates into a great gaming experience, or if it's worth 100 bucks to find out. Anyone have any experience with it?

To me it's more like a tool if you want to design game. I never played it but watching the reviews I just kept thinking if you want certain type of games you might as well just buy that instead of a one size fits all one.

 

[Lyng]

Went into the local Dragon Slayer today and ended up impulse buying Machi Koro (after hearing positive things from Astro Lad and others) and have to admit the games is quiet fun.
It has a heavy luck element to it but I dont mind that with a game this short.

Feels like Monopoly made fun.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Basic turn flow is a standard setup phase -> players take actions till everyone passes -> wrap up phase.

The length comes from the middle part, because if you have six players everyone is taking on average 3-5 actions per turn and there can be 10 turns. Some of those actions are simple stuff like moving a fleet and building some units. But there are also "strategy actions" where you use a card you picked in the setup phase that could result in an additional building phase for everyone, or give everyone the chance to shuffle units around, or result in a 15 minute debate about a law that the galaxy might enact. And then if someone invades a planet there is a fleet battle and a ground battle and those aren't fast to resolve because there's a good number of dice involved.

It's a grand ridiculous thing that gets far too granular for its own good, but I love it enough to play it once every 9 months.

Don't forget the arguments/bargaining/begging. That eats up some time let me tell you.

 

[Dryk]

as did I

hopefully sheriff is fun as I keep hearing good things about it.

Those prices are insane. Pity I can't take advantage since I'd get completely murdered by shipping ;_;

 

[AbsolutBro]

My haul from Fantasy Flight's sale arrived today:

Merchant of Venus
Nexus Ops
Sky Traders
Gearworld: The Borderlands

I know basically nothing about any of these games except they were way on sale and looked neat. Impulse shopping at it's worst finest.

 

[Femmeworth]

Upon thinking about it, I didn't really save too much with Cardhaus' sale. I feel like I'm going to end up kicking myself at some point between now and Christmas.

Crunched the numbers and for what I ordered I only saved a few dollars versus ordering at MM under more ideal circumstances. Those more ideal circumstances being a sitewide 10% off sale.

 

[AstroLad]

My haul from Fantasy Flight's sale arrived today:

Merchant of Venus
Nexus Ops
Sky Traders
Gearworld: The Borderlands

I know basically nothing about any of these games except they were way on sale and looked neat. Impulse shopping at it's worst finest.

Nexus Ops is an awesome light tactics game that plays 4 very well. MoV is supposed to be a classic too. Don't know about the others.