Support NeoGAF

[majik13]

ugh that will just look really stupid. You call creating a zipline gimicky/lame and instead suggest the owl carries you? Lol

There's absolutely nothing about it that's complex. If you need to get a certain point in the distance, especially to take some advantage of the terrain, you command the owl to create a zipline for you...what's complex about it? It's a design choice and one that gives players more freedom.

You guys are trying way too hard.

I am not saying the gameplay is complex, just the idea is overly complex in a real world sense. Or they are trying to make something seem cool, new and futuristic. When it actuality it is makes no sense and wouldn't actually work.

All I am saying is if the humans are going to design these bots, that can carry your weight in the game world, then why design this whole zip line system into it? It is redundant, complicated, limited and would cause more issues , than just having the damn thing carry you.

Also, I am not saying it would be cool for the thing to carry you and they should change the game.

If anything, they should just bring back the jetpack, or give you a compact retractable glider of sorts that comes out the back of your suit., that would practically do the same thing as the zip line.

Also makes you wonder why the jetpacks where so big and bulky with huge jet thrusters, yet this little bot can hold your weight, fire guns, store a zipline etc. I am not tripping out over these details,. it is just a game. But I think they could have designed in a better, cooler mechanic.

 

[Leucrota]

Don't get the complaints about 'wall-hacks.' This is SP, not MP so who cares it is about having fun. Don't use it if that is more fun for you. Secondly, we already have the power to do 'wall-hacks' IRL. We could see the Boston Bomber kid in the boat even though we was covered up. Military probably has similar IR tech, or even better. That stuff isn't even sci-fi.

 

[NoirVisage]

That E3 demo really was thoroughly unimpressive.

it was, as a fan of the first 2 Killzones, especially the 2nd, It pains me to say that. I have a feeling they're holding back, I hope when they do release the Kraken, it makes up for the generic drivel we've been subjected to.

The drone seems to make the whole gameplay experience feel cheap and unrewarding.
I don't want press one button and watch a robot shoot some hapless soldiers in the face at 10000 rounds per minute.
A soldier, by the way, who I can see through the wall from the safety of my cover. It takes away all sense of danger and the thrill of overcoming it.

whats stopping you from not using it? Play how you want, they're called options.

 

[andregnreis]

Yeaahhhh doesnt look that good. I really hope Sony brings more launch titles to the PS4 and announce them at Gamescom ou maybe TGS. Killzone looks boring, same for Knack and Driveclub. If only Infamous came out this year...

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

it was, as a fan of the first 2 Killzones, especially the 2nd, It pains me to say that. I have a feeling they're holding back, I hope when they do release the Kraken, it makes up for the generic drivel we've been subjected to.

Well they didn't really show much of KZ3 before it's release, and well that had some of the Craziest battles I've experienced in a while

Spoiler

The fight with that huge colossus looking thing for starters, that was a trip in 3D

. Based on track record, I have no doubt they'll deliver on this front.

 

[Visceir]

I am not saying the gameplay is complex, just the idea is overly complex in a real world sense. Or they are trying to make something seem cool, new and futuristic. When it actuality it is makes no sense and wouldn't actually work.

All I am saying is if the humans are going to design these bots, that can carry your weight in the game world, then why design this whole zip line system into it? It is redundant, complicated, limited and would cause more issues , than just having the damn thing carry you.

Exactly my first thoughts, haha. Just really poor world building.

They should move on from this level already, I wanna see some new areas.

Edit: Just strap a camera on that OWL and remote control it safely from somewhere far away ...would probably make a better game too.

 

[Lord Error]

I like how much more open ended this seems to be compared to last two games, especially KZ3. It's taking much needed influence from Halo, I think.

I am not saying the gameplay is complex, just the idea is overly complex in a real world sense. Or they are trying to make something seem cool, new and futuristic. When it actuality it is makes no sense and wouldn't actually work.

Zipline is faster, which matters for gameplay. I don't think it really matters if it would be more practical in real world.

 

[Violater]

I want to upload Rico's intelligence into the Owl, now that would be an awesome game.
He could be like claptrap in borderlands.

 

[Marleyman]

Yeaahhhh doesnt look that good. I really hope Sony brings more launch titles to the PS4 and announce them at Gamescom ou maybe TGS. Killzone looks boring, same for Knack and Driveclub. If only Infamous came out this year...

I swear that I would have gotten the PS4 first if they launched w/ Infamous.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Something that nobody is mentioning is the vast openness of levels sf is bringing. Kz 2/3 were basically almost corridor shooters.

 

[mrklaw]

I don't like the strawberry jam that comes out of them when they get shot, but it looks really nice. Wish there was a version that was less compressed though :/

 

[B.O.O.M]

I am not saying the gameplay is complex, just the idea is overly complex in a real world sense. Or they are trying to make something seem cool, new and futuristic. When it actuality it is makes no sense and wouldn't actually work.

All I am saying is if the humans are going to design these bots, that can carry your weight in the game world, then why design this whole zip line system into it? It is redundant, complicated, limited and would cause more issues , than just having the damn thing carry you.

:S I really do think you are reading too much into it but I will humor this discussion

1. by using ziplines the design makes sure the players can go from a sloped angle in the map. If the owl carried it the next argument would be why can't he be taken from low to high ground.

2. Sustaining weight for a few seconds in a zipline vs having to carry the weight for a longer period of time is another possible argument.

At the end of the day this is such a non-issue.

 

[kaching]

Why does the zipline need a giant, visible hook? It's a scifi setting where the zipline could possibly have microbarbs at the end or use a nanotech cap to fuse with the target at a molecular level. Not something worth complaining about the suspension of disbelief over.

 

[bigboss370]

where's my cover? they should have shown more cover based gameplay.


also, they should change the gun back to the way it was in the Feb reveal.

graphics are still jaw dropping though.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Think it looks awesome, in for this and Watch Dogs Day One.

 

[Norml]

Looks great! Although the alien foliage does throw off a realistic look because can't match avatar yet.

I love the change up to stealthy because it slows down the gameplay.I think they should add looting to slow it down even more and add some things.

 

[doniewhalberg]

*cries* I keep checking back in here, and gamersyde, hoping a real uncompressed direct feed download pops up, but nada yet. Why do this to me.

 

[mrklaw]

I am not saying the gameplay is complex, just the idea is overly complex in a real world sense. Or they are trying to make something seem cool, new and futuristic. When it actuality it is makes no sense and wouldn't actually work.

All I am saying is if the humans are going to design these bots, that can carry your weight in the game world, then why design this whole zip line system into it? It is redundant, complicated, limited and would cause more issues , than just having the damn thing carry you.

Also, I am not saying it would be cool for the thing to carry you and they should change the game.

If anything, they should just bring back the jetpack, or give you a compact retractable glider of sorts that comes out the back of your suit., that would practically do the same thing as the zip line.

Also makes you wonder why the jetpacks where so big and bulky with huge jet thrusters, yet this little bot can hold your weight, fire guns, store a zipline etc. I am not tripping out over these details,. it is just a game. But I think they could have designed in a better, cooler mechanic.

the bot isn't strong enough to carry your entire weight, it needs the rope anchored to the tree to let the tree take some of the load.

There, is that a pointless enough explanation for a gameplay mcguffin?



I'd like to think they have amazing surprises waiting in store for us - but lets face it, it's a launch title that will be rushed to get ready. Dont' expect miracles. But do perhaps look foward to the next one, when Guerilla get the time to spend really pushing things.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

the bot isn't strong enough to carry your entire weight, it needs the rope anchored to the tree to let the tree take some of the load.

There, is that a pointless enough explanation for a gameplay mcguffin?

Sometimes I wish gaf had a + or - post system lol.

 

[MANGOD]

Day one with this. I enjoyed 2, got bored with 3 but I think with the new setting and some goddam colour added to the game this is shaping up to be very nice. Would have loved 60fps though......

 

[JawzPause]

I like that they've made it more open & colourful, reminds me of Halo, although I do sort of miss the dark theme of Killzone 2.
On a side note, why do the Helghast look different? I understand it's based a bit further in the future but the Helghast look worse imo.

 

[shinobi602]

where's my cover? they should have shown more cover based gameplay.


also, they should change the gun back to the way it was in the Feb reveal.

graphics are still jaw dropping though.

You didn't see cover in the Feb reveal? What's different about the gun btw?

 

[majik13]

:S I really do think you are reading too much into it but I will humor this discussion

1. by using ziplines the design makes sure the players can go from a sloped angle in the map. If the owl carried it the next argument would be why can't he be taken from low to high ground.

2. Sustaining weight for a few seconds in a zipline vs having to carry the weight for a longer period of time is another possible argument.

At the end of the day this is such a non-issue.

yeah I get that, I edited my post too late, Or I thought I edited earlier but I guess it didnt take. Anyways, that is why I said a retractable compact glider, that comes out of your back on your suit, would make much more sense and would be cooler, than this weird zipline mechanic, it would still work somewhat like the zipline, in the sense that you have to slope down, and would open up some more gameplay mechanics.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Are they finally showing a new level here? I am seriously getting tired of that forest level.

 

[farisr]

Are they finally showing a new level here? I am seriously getting tired of that forest level.

Nope. But it's finally direct feed 1080p footage of the level. But still sadly a youtube vid.

 

[Sendou]

So people think that looked bad? Looked pretty damn good to me. Gotta love some more diverse settings. I'm big fan of forests myself.

 

[majik13]

the bot isn't strong enough to carry your entire weight, it needs the rope anchored to the tree to let the tree take some of the load.

There, is that a pointless enough explanation for a gameplay mcguffin?


I'd like to think they have amazing surprises waiting in store for us - but lets face it, it's a launch title that will be rushed to get ready. Dont' expect miracles. But do perhaps look foward to the next one, when Guerilla get the time to spend really pushing things.

Weird I was just thinking of this thing in the Mcguffin sense. And NO this is not a satisfactory explanation! If the bot is the apex or height of the zipline, and the tree is down hill on the ground. The bot wiould still be holding most of the weight, until you get closer to the bottom of the zipline.


But yeah this bot seems to be the mcguffin for any gameplay issues they wont to solve. Just seems a little lazy for me to have this bot do anything and everything.

 

[Always-honest]

Nope. But it's finally direct feed 1080p footage of the level. But still sadly a youtube vid.

This... Dear god Youtube has the worst compression. It makes 1080p clips look like compressed to shit 480p clips.

edit':

why the fuck is there a building standing IN the wall?

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Nope. But it's finally direct feed 1080p footage of the level. But still sadly a youtube vid.

ARGHHHHHH!

Give us a new level dammit!

I want to see some classic KZ gameplay with big battles. I really hope this game has that.

What we have seen so far seems like too much sneaking/lone wolf gameplay.

Where are the huge engagements this series has features in past games?

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

Weird I was just thinking of this thing in the Mcguffin sense. And NO this is not a satisfactory explanation! If the bot is the apex or height of the zipline, and the tree is down hill on the ground. The bot wiould still be holding most of the weight, until you get closer to the bottom of the zipline.


But yeah this bot seems to be the mcguffin for any gameplay issues they wont to solve. Just seems a little lazy for me to have this bot do anything and everything.

Not to be an asshole, but I like how them adding a bunch of new features into the game makes them lazy

 

[Stellactic]

You can layer your game with fancy graphics but the enemies are still bullet dumpsters made so that your pointer finger has something to do.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Yes I'm laughing at these comments, guerilla only did the best looking shooters on the current gen. No big deal... Once they show a level on the other side of the wall I expect massive amount of crow eating.

Yes I agree. If they stick to hard surfaces and use as little vegetation as possible, it will look really really good.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

ARGHHHHHH!

Give us a new level dammit!

I want to see some classic KZ gameplay with big battles. I really hope this game has that.

What we have seen so far seems like too much sneaking/lone wolf gameplay.

Where are the huge engagements this series has features in past games?

You'll see all that no doubt.

We are still 3-4 months from release. I'm waiting for darker colour tones from the Helghast side of the wall. Should be pretty spectacular visually.

 

[Raist]

I am not saying the gameplay is complex, just the idea is overly complex in a real world sense. Or they are trying to make something seem cool, new and futuristic. When it actuality it is makes no sense and wouldn't actually work.

All I am saying is if the humans are going to design these bots, that can carry your weight in the game world, then why design this whole zip line system into it? It is redundant, complicated, limited and would cause more issues , than just having the damn thing carry you.

In real world sense? You mean like physics and stuff? The weight of the guy is share between the bot and whatever the zipline is attached to. You'd have an easier time doing so yourself than supporting someone's weight entirely on your own. Not to mention that going down a zipline is faster. Gravity helps, you're not fighting against it.

why the fuck is there a building standing IN the wall?

Haha, good catch. Fix this shit GG.

 

[majik13]

Not to be an asshole, but I like how them adding a bunch of new features into the game makes them lazy

whats up with some reading comprehension, where did I say this? I am saying how they are designing or implementing these new features into the game are lazy.A non lazy way to do this traversal zipline thing, as i have stated several times now, I think would to have a retractable compact glider come out the back of the suit.

anyways...

 

[bigboss370]

You didn't see cover in the Feb reveal? What's different about the gun btw?

I did see cover in the Feb reveal, and I loved it. But it seems completely missing in the E3 demo.

Also the gun was bigger in the E3 demo, the colors were different, and the scope was different.

Hit reaction physics also seems to have changed from how it was in KZ2 and KZ3. But I'm not too sure about that yet.

 

[majik13]

In real world sense? You mean like physics and stuff? The weight of the guy is share between the bot and whatever the zipline is attached to. You'd have an easier time doing so yourself than supporting someone's weight entirely on your own. Not to mention that going down a zipline is faster. Gravity helps, you're not fighting against it.

.... If the bot is the apex or height of the zipline, and the tree is down hill on the ground. The bot would still be holding most of the weight, until you get closer to the bottom of the zipline.

.... that is why I said a retractable compact glider, that comes out of your back on your suit, would make much more sense and would be cooler, than this weird zipline mechanic, it would still work somewhat like the zipline, in the sense that you have to slope down, and would open up some more gameplay mechanics.

.

 

[B.O.O.M]

yeah I get that, I edited my post too late, Or I thought I edited earlier but I guess it didnt take. Anyways, that is why I said a retractable compact glider, that comes out of your back on your suit, would make much more sense and would be cooler, than this weird zipline mechanic, it would still work somewhat like the zipline, in the sense that you have to slope down, and would open up some more gameplay mechanics.

But this would be a much more silent, precise, controllable method than a glider, especially in a forest. I also don't think it will 'look' cooler at all. I don't see what other gameplay mechanics it would bring up that would add to the overall experience either tbh.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

whats up with some reading comprehension, where did I say this? I am saying how they are designing or implementing these new features into the game are lazy.A non lazy way to do this traversal zipline thing, as i have stated several times now, I think would to have a retractable compact glider come out the back of the suit.

anyways...

The goal is probably to emphasize reliance on one device. On other levels should they just choose to not let you have it, that will be that, your strategies will change. If you make multiple devices to do multiple things, people would always expect to have some form of extra? I don't know their reasons, but this is not something that's hard to believe.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

I'm sorry guys but that footage left much to be desired. I can't help but feel like this is just another generic look futuristic shooter with a fresh coat of paint. No disrespect to all the Killzone fans out there, but Shadowfall looks bland and uninspired to me based off of all the footage we've seen so far. Hopefully Guerilla is holding back and the final product looks/feels a lot better.

 

[majik13]

But this would be a much more silent, precise, controllable method than a glider, especially in a forest. I also don't think it will 'look' cooler at all. I don't see what other gameplay mechanics it would bring up that would add to the overall experience either tbh.

it would add the ability to control your decent, speed and direction( in a limited fashion), and be able to use both hands, to still fire and aim your gun, or whatever else. Could also direct your flight to an enemy and end with a melee kill. I dont know maybe some of that stuff is possible with the zipline too?

Also not sure how the zipline is more silent, precise and controllable than a glider would be.

 

[kaching]

Anyways, that is why I said a retractable compact glider, that comes out of your back on your suit, would make much more sense

No it wouldn't - a glider would make you a bigger, slower, more vulnerable target.

 

[KageMaru]

Been a while since I've played FEAR, but I agree HL and Halo have better AI. Still, my point was that I would list Killzone's as one of the ones up there.

Yeah, no doubt the AI in KZ2 is some of the better AI in shooters.

I personally think the A.I is MUCH better than Halflife or Halo. Fear was definitely good, but I'd say it rivals that and surpasses it in some instances. What the A.I is capable of versus what you might see on one playthrough can vary exponentially. I've seen mild A.I and extreme A.I right next to each other in the Killzone franchise, similar units acting completely differently etc etc etc. As mentioned earlier though, anyone can cherry pick anything to death. Name me a game where you can't find an instance of poor A.I.

I'm not talking about instances of poor AI, every game does have that. I'm talking about the overall quality of the AI and how it stacks up to the competition. IMO to say that the AI in KZ2 is "MUCH" better than these other games is laughable and makes me question whether or not you really played these other games.

But hey, to each their own.

I just played through HL1, a good way into HL2 ( sooo long since I last played, playing it basically this week non stop) and the AI is not only mediocre, but compared to KZ2 is it quite bad.

The only good thing about the AI is that the AI pushes up a lot to attack you, which is also bad/ stupid since I have very easily been able to lure AI into a smaller room and basically kill em all off.

Something like that never worked in KZ2, the way the AI used cover to there advantage and flanked you is way beyond pretty much any game.

I have only played 3, reach and 4 so can't comment on 1 and 2, but those 3 have, again in comparison to KZ2, have pretty average AI. Not bad, but not once did I say " wow, this AI is good" or been impressed with how the battle.


BUT, I guess it is to to what you experience yourself, you could have experienced better ai in those games, and that is fine.


Never played Fear.

Admittedly I haven't played FEAR in a few years so my memory could be hazy, but what I do remember about HL2 was much more adaptive than what you're describing. I disagree with your opinion over how well the AI flanked you in KZ2 because much of the game is very linear with very little room for flanking. IMO it's good AI in CoD level-type designs, but the levels in HL (especially EP2) and Halo are more open than those found in KZ2. Also, I wonder what difficulty you played Halo on. The higher the difficulty, the better the AI is.

However I really don't want this to become a debate about AI in shooters (especially when exclusives are involved) so I think we should agree to disagree. I'm in a KZ thread, and while I love the franchise, I don't expect my criticism over the franchise to be well received here.

 

[shinobi602]

I did see cover in the Feb reveal, and I loved it. But it seems completely missing in the E3 demo.

Also the gun was bigger in the E3 demo, the colors were different, and the scope was different.

Hit reaction physics also seems to have changed from how it was in KZ2 and KZ3. But I'm not too sure about that yet.

Well it's missing because the scope of the level is different. It's more open ended and allows for various ways to achieve the objective and attack enemies. It seems there will be a variety of levels that allow for different gameplay.

As for the gun, I believe I read somewhere you can customize some of the weapons now, so I believe that's the case.

 

[majik13]

No it wouldn't - a glider would make you a bigger, slower, more vulnerable target.

depends on how they design it. If you have your hands free to shoot aim and melee when the gliding, that makes you less vulnerable. I don't think speed would be much different, maybe a bit slower. I don't know.

 

[schwabdizzle]

I am debating between this game and Battlefield 4 at launch and I am having a very hard time.

 

[B.O.O.M]

it would add the ability to control your decent, speed and direction, and be able to use both hands, to still fire and aim your gun, or whatever else.

Also not sure how the zipline is more silent, precise and controllable than a glider would be.

Man listen..before I say the following I have to point out we are heading in a rather ridiculous direction where we are seriously considering all sorts of crazy things in physics etc that really shouldn't be so deeply talked about of a video game.

Have you seen gliders? They are not always really accurate. Depending on the wind, obstructions in the environment etc etc the control-ability will be heavily affected. With a simple zipline creation mechanic those are no longer problems. The user can exactly plan, pin point and land in the location they want. This method is also much faster which is important in taking enemies by surprise.

And yes a glider would make more noise and grab attention than a simple zipline. To carry a man a glider will have to be at least of a certain size either way.

I'm not sure if you can't shoot while ziplining in this game but it really doesn't affect the overall gameplay. The animation takes just a few mere second to complete.

 

[kriskrosbbk]

Looks like they're using the touchpad to send the OWL in different directions.

well ,of course they are.looks handy.

 

[kaching]

depends on how they design it. If you have your hands free to shoot aim and melee when the gliding, that makes you less vulnerable. I don't think speed would be much different, maybe a bit slower. I don't know.

I'd like to think we're at the point here where you might be realizing that your conceptions about what's more realistic are more than a little arbitrary here...

 

[Original Man]

I never could understand how people can say this looks boring then go and say cod or bf or just about any other fps really, looks dope.

looks good to me.