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[Christopher]

Assuming you have played the game extensively, just how boring is it?

I'm pretty sure we played this game on the wii and the ds and the 3ds so he has a pretty good idea

 

[Neff]

I think its more of a new "Super Mario Bros." than a new Mario which would have a new title like 64, Sunshine, Galaxy, ???

You're quite right, but here we are on game #4 with little in the way of new concepts or mechanics, so the title becomes a rather poetic thorn in the side.

 

[UncleSporky]

This is not true in the least. I don't know how committed you are to this view. If its another one of those flippant internet over generalizations then I don't want to waste my time making a long list for you.

The amount of movement in obstacles alone is one of the big new additions. Platforms that rotate or shake, coins that show up out of nowhere and move into specific positions or shoot around as if shot out of a cannon, blocks that fly around...

This wasn't in previous Marios.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

The amount of movement in obstacles alone is one of the big new additions. Platforms that rotate or shake, coins that show up out of nowhere and move into specific positions or shoot around as if shot out of a cannon, blocks that fly around...

This wasn't in previous Marios.

Great example there. That didn't even come to mind when I was thinking. Love that level so much.

 

[ShineALight]

I'm pretty sure we played this game on the wii and the ds and the 3ds so he has a pretty good idea

It's not the same game. It's not the same content.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

So does the difficulty fall around Wii or higher?


The thing about Super Meat Boy is that its mechanics (and in effect what its level design can do, especially concerning enemies) is far simpler than even Super Mario Bros, which is looked at as the "vanilla" 2D action game series. Your relationship with anything in that game comes off as a simple binary. This is made worse by the fact the endlessly collection of ugly spinning buzzsaws and whatnot lose meaning with no punishment. "Trial and Error" is phase often used to describe a game that is "cheap", but I see it instead as an opportunity to talk about a game which becomes too easy because butting your head against it does work since it functions on very short bursts. Trial and Error basically means not enough complexity or punishment to prevent a human from just trying the same 15 seconds over and over again and greatly increasing his chances of success.

Although something like NSMBW spends a lot of the time not being particularly challenging (I would put where it gets interesting a bit earlier than most, as early as World 3 or 4), it doesn't feature the sterile, unimmersive flash-game nature of Super Meat Boy. Super Mario Bros has this thing called "pacing", and its real nice to have. Looking toward arcade classics or even something like SMB2(JP) which are truly more challenging, clearing them in a 1cc fashion is like a true journey and to some extent that remains true even for the relatively easier NSMB games. Super Meat Boy and any game which is based on that heavy checkpoint/save-state nature just rips the journey out of the game and makes it a marginalized reflex test (which can be played in any order even). Most everything else about it is so repulsive too. Some good music tracks, but that is all I'll give it.

I'm glad I'm not alone in the "yeah, fuck Super Meat Boy" club that Amirox is the emperor against. If he had it his way, Rayman Origins would be 40 stages of Treasure Box chases, 10 hours of running your head into a brick wall at 90 MPHs until it's over. Super Meat Boy is an ugly, highly repetitive, draconian little mess of a video game. But in a sea of easy games, it's really hard, so "hardcore" gamers feel good about themselves after they bashed their head through that wall after a few dozen attempts.

 

[zroid]

Rayman Origins would be 40 stages of Treasure Box chases, 10 hours of running your head into a brick wall at 90 MPHs until it's over.

jesus, I just felt a part of me die when I read that

 

[Christopher]

It's not the same game. It's not the same content.

But I digress they're having a wii play thingy in the mall on the 19th I'm gonn test it out

 

[PogiJones]

I'm glad I'm not alone in the "yeah, fuck Super Meat Boy" club that Amirox is the emperor against. If he had it his way, Rayman Origins would be 40 stages of Treasure Box chases, 10 hours of running your head into a brick wall at 90 MPHs until it's over. Super Meat Boy is an ugly, highly repetitive, draconian little mess of a video game. But in a sea of easy games, it's really hard, so "hardcore" gamers feel good about themselves after they bashed their head through that wall after a few dozen attempts.

Or, you know, some of us just really like the game, and found it fun.

 

[Burnburn]

So does the difficulty fall around Wii or higher?


The thing about Super Meat Boy is that its mechanics (and in effect what its level design can do, especially concerning enemies) is far simpler than even Super Mario Bros, which is looked at as the "vanilla" 2D action game series. Your relationship with anything in that game comes off as a simple binary. This is made worse by the fact the endlessly collection of ugly spinning buzzsaws and whatnot lose meaning with no punishment. "Trial and Error" is phase often used to describe a game that is "cheap", but I see it instead as an opportunity to talk about a game which becomes too easy because butting your head against it does work since it functions on very short bursts. Trial and Error basically means not enough complexity or punishment to prevent a human from just trying the same 15 seconds over and over again and greatly increasing his chances of success.

Although something like NSMBW spends a lot of the time not being particularly challenging (I would put where it gets interesting a bit earlier than most, as early as World 3 or 4), it doesn't feature the sterile, unimmersive flash-game nature of Super Meat Boy. Super Mario Bros has this thing called "pacing", and its real nice to have. Looking toward arcade classics or even something like SMB2(JP) which are truly more challenging, clearing them in a 1cc fashion is like a true journey and to some extent that remains true even for the relatively easier NSMB games. Super Meat Boy and any game which is based on that heavy checkpoint/save-state nature just rips the journey out of the game and makes it a marginalized reflex test (which can be played in any order even). Most everything else about it is so repulsive too. Some good music tracks, but that is all I'll give it.

Do you even have any idea what you are talking about? The charm that Super Meat Boy has IS it's simplicity. It's straight up platforming where your skills get measured, no fancy stuff and no trial and error involved. The only trial and error involved is when new mechanics get introduced, which take only one life to figure out.

 

[ArynCrinn]

So does the difficulty fall around Wii or higher?


The thing about Super Meat Boy is that its mechanics (and in effect what its level design can do, especially concerning enemies) is far simpler than even Super Mario Bros, which is looked at as the "vanilla" 2D action game series. Your relationship with anything in that game comes off as a simple binary. This is made worse by the fact the endlessly collection of ugly spinning buzzsaws and whatnot lose meaning with no punishment. "Trial and Error" is phase often used to describe a game that is "cheap", but I see it instead as an opportunity to talk about a game which becomes too easy because butting your head against it does work since it functions on very short bursts. Trial and Error basically means not enough complexity or punishment to prevent a human from just trying the same 15 seconds over and over again and greatly increasing his chances of success.

Although something like NSMBW spends a lot of the time not being particularly challenging (I would put where it gets interesting a bit earlier than most, as early as World 3 or 4), it doesn't feature the sterile, unimmersive flash-game nature of Super Meat Boy. Super Mario Bros has this thing called "pacing", and its real nice to have. Looking toward arcade classics or even something like SMB2(JP) which are truly more challenging, clearing them in a 1cc fashion is like a true journey and to some extent that remains true even for the relatively easier NSMB games. Super Meat Boy and any game which is based on that heavy checkpoint/save-state nature just rips the journey out of the game and makes it a marginalized reflex test (which can be played in any order even). Most everything else about it is so repulsive too. Some good music tracks, but that is all I'll give it.

I feel like I'm reading a opinionated assessment of someone who heard about something rather than direct prolonged experience. In any case, you're wrong, and you're approaching it from the wrong angle. Where's your wealth of experience and insight into the level-to-level intricacies (from level design to difficulty length), I know the leaderboards who's who, I know the YT runners, never heard of you there... In any case I'd argue that mastering 5-20, 7-20, 7-12x, and 5-13x, and a whole host of others is a order of magnitude more difficult and adventurous than clearing SMB2Jap on 1cc, please prove me wrong. Better yet, show me, rather than hammer the keyboard.

SMB is about a process, refinement, and perfection at it's core. Nailing a strat is one thing, approaching a top time is another, developing new strats is another. It's a arcadey psychological/reflex test, of various sorts, superimposed through different mechanics and layered obstacles. It's a different kind of platformer. It's raw platforming in it's simplest and truest form, where your manipulation of control, timing and technique (and understanding of level layouts) hold the most sway over all the other accoutrements people often attribute to other platformers, whatever they may be.

Looking toward arcade classics or even something like SMB2(JP) which are truly more challenging, clearing them in a 1cc fashion is like a true journey and to some extent that remains true even for the relatively easier NSMB games. Super Meat Boy and any game which is based on that heavy checkpoint/save-state nature just rips the journey out of the game and makes it a marginalized reflex test (which can be played in any order even).

Yeah, you are monstrously incorrect, aside from "any order", which is actually a huge plus and what ironically distinguishes the SDA style and oldschool arcade style...

Spoiler

it was the same with all the arcade classic Mario and most platformers in general.

 

[Stumpokapow]

The thing about Super Meat Boy is that its mechanics (and in effect what its level design can do, especially concerning enemies) is far simpler than even Super Mario Bros, which is looked at as the "vanilla" 2D action game series. Your relationship with anything in that game comes off as a simple binary. This is made worse by the fact the endlessly collection of ugly spinning buzzsaws and whatnot lose meaning with no punishment. "Trial and Error" is phase often used to describe a game that is "cheap", but I see it instead as an opportunity to talk about a game which becomes too easy because butting your head against it does work since it functions on very short bursts. Trial and Error basically means not enough complexity or punishment to prevent a human from just trying the same 15 seconds over and over again and greatly increasing his chances of success.

You're not wrong in some parts of your assessment here (and I share your hatred of the aesthetic), but I will say a few basic observations:
- The restarting is so quick that the frustration associated with an "error" being an error is lowered
- The replay function adds some value to failure, because you can watch your triumph over your past failures and see how you iteratively got better at the level
- The fact that you drip meat juice / blood over the level I think does a good job of both showing you your best progress, challenging you to beat it, and give you a sense of "weight" to your death--obviously no gameplay consequence, but something more like the aesthetic benefit of kickback or strong sound design in making gunplay feel good in a shooter.
- I think replaying World 1 or 2 after finishing the game suggests that there is obviously a fairly high skill ceiling in Super Meat Boy. If the game were easy due to the design, you wouldn't see people become significantly better. Even going from Cotton Alley to, say, Hell makes your skill progression dramatically visible.

(I had SMB somewhere around #5 of my GOTY list that year, although I feel VVVVVV is pound-for-pound the better game)

I feel like I'm reading a opinionated assessment of someone who heard about something rather than direct prolonged experience.

Riposte has a very direct and awesome way of expressing himself, I love it in a poster. You need to roll with the punches

 

[ArynCrinn]

Riposte has a very direct and awesome way of expressing himself, I love it in a poster. You need to roll with the punches

I like Riposte as a member and agree with a lot of what he normally goes on about. In a round about way I just meant that anybody who's put in the hours and tears wouldn't say what he's saying, they'd be complaining about technical issues and Team Meant in general...

What Riposte says here makes a lot of sense if you simply took the game at surface value, but we all understand that a years long 3rd Strike player doesn't view the game on that level. And there's no dispute, or there shouldn't be, that SMB is the most technical platformer ever made. Although Dustforce could reasonably argue with that.