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[Ascend]

This is for the technically illiterate. The GPU of the current gen is too large, but the image describes the situation perfectly.

 

[FranXico]

This is for the technically illiterate. The GPU of the current gen is too large, but the image describes the situation perfectly.

* relative CPU and GPU sizes not actually to scale.

Impressive educational value!

 

[ethomaz]

That will sell exactly two copies.

His previous game sold 5 copies on Steam

 

[ethomaz]

This is for the technically illiterate. The GPU of the current gen is too large, but the image describes the situation perfectly.

False because Cerny it can both be full speed... he even said it is most of time.

 

[Tripolygon]

This is for the technically illiterate. The GPU of the current gen is too large, but the image describes the situation perfectly.

This doesn't make any sense. You've lost the plot when you try to explain 2 different design methodology with a quiet frankly facile understanding of how processor clock speed relates to power draw, performance and cooling.

1st the explanation states that the CPU gets a higher power budget than the GPU, then it further states that for the GPU to do any workload the CPU most be down-clocked significantly to redirect power to the GPU.

In reality as with PCs, you provide more than enough power for both processors to achieve their optimal power draw and performance and throttle based on thermal load.

2nd, the explanation seems to think that Xbox Series X CPU and GPU has different power lines that feeds them separate but equal amount of power. While in reality the whole system draws from a single pool of power budget on as needed basis. PS5 does the same thing, what is different is that PS5 processors are allowed to down-clock when they go over budget or when they are under budget.

 

[LittleBigGamer]

.....

How are you BGs?

 

[TherapistGaymer]

Yes he, can. Look what this guy did alone. But it does make sense saying something, but he cannot provide a proof to support his own claim as a dev. /s





How he can simulate PS5 devkit SSD speeds if he doesn't have one??? But 10 days passed since that tweet. We have the game showed now for XSX. He also developed 2 games before for Xbox/Windows platforms
Problem is there are persons who defending that tweet, well they care then. /s

OMG man you read my mind about the video you posted - The kid did it alone. That tweet was ignorant from the developer. Reason being for one, the CPU and SSD are not a bottleneck if you pay attention to what Cerny said about the 12 channels. Also if you don't "understand " how something works you dont comment about what it will or won't do. Definetly a weak tweet by someone who is a lame developer.

 

[Ascend]

This doesn't make any sense. You've lost the plot when you try to explain 2 different design methodology with a quiet frankly facile understanding of how processor clock speed relates to performance and cooling.

 

[MistBreeze]

I feel this one of the most interesting gens as each company chose different philosophy in designing their console yet they are very close in power and using same components architecture

in my opinion the most differentiation factor will be the games and exclusives , games what make a console
the one who have best initial selling price, os and services will be victorious
I admit playstation brand is stronger and the higher installer base invested in the eco system with big catalogue of purchased games will translate seemingly to ps5 unless sony fuck up hard
and in the other hand sony has the best exclusives than microsoft currently
but maybe microsoft new studios will make up for quality difference

 

[Tripolygon]

yeaok.gif

Care to elaborate on what you think is right about that nonsensical gif?

 

[TherapistGaymer]

What a load of bollocks. Comparing a one-man company to the entirety of Sonys 1st party studios. Good job.

Oh man you are definitely here to debate. So that game he showed you was indeed created by one boy alone and he sold it to Sony - really nice guy. Matter of fact it looked better before he sold it or partnered with Sony. So do you see how "respectfully" when you dont have full information that is makes an ass out of everyone? The developer said he doesn't understand PS5. He stated the bottleneck as fact while making a video example of Echo the Dolphin 2020. So yeah uninformative tweet. I'll listen to more well known dev's and even DF over this bs.

 

[Apollo Helios]

Oh man you are definitely here to debate. So that game he showed you was indeed created by one boy alone and he sold it to Sony - really nice guy. Matter of fact it looked better before he sold it or partnered with Sony. So do you see how "respectfully" when you dont have full information that is makes an ass out of everyone? The developer said he doesn't understand PS5. He stated the bottleneck as fact while making a video example of Echo the Dolphin 2020. So yeah uninformative tweet. I'll listen to more well known dev's and even DF over this bs.

Yeah he's been running for the title Master deBater for a while now. Arguing just for the sake of arguing...

 

[Aceofspades]

This is for the technically illiterate. The GPU of the current gen is too large, but the image describes the situation perfectly.

Oh wow current gen has better GPUs than next gen

He avoided doing the comparison with perfectly scaled boxes to actual performance of the machines just to avoid showing XsX in bad shape

 

[Tripolygon]

yeaok.gif

How computers work. Using my laptop with 4 cores and 8 threads, this also applies to any modern CPU and GPU. See how all the threads keep shifting clocks up and down? That is because they are adjusting based on workload. I was recording this gif which is what caused these spikes. There is no need to maintain a constant clock when you are doing something less taxing when same thing can be achieved using lower clock while saving you on power budget.

 

[FranXico]

Oh wow current gen has better GPUs than next gen

Note how tiny the PS5 components are. Judging from those educational graphics, you'd think that the CPU runs at 1.8GHz and the GPU is 5TF.

 

[Tripolygon]

Note how tiny the PS5 components are. Judging from those educational graphics, you'd think that the CPU runs at 1.8GHz and the GPU is 5TF.

That's why i hate these kinds of infographics made by fanboys. They legit look like they're informative but they are either made to mislead or they are outright just dumb but yet people buy into it. I've seen this same infographic quoted in various threads on this board and then a bunch of people like it because it confirms their biases.

 

[BGs]

How are you BGs?

 

[Dodkrake]

How computers work. Using my laptop with 4 cores and 8 threads, this also applies to any modern CPU and GPU. See how all the threads keep shifting clocks up and down? That is because they are adjusting based on workload. I was recording this gif which is what caused these spikes. There is no need to maintain a constant clock when you are doing something less taxing when same thing can be achieved using lower clock while saving you on power budget.

It still baffles me that some people do not understand that variable clocks is not the same as clock boost.

Clock boost = short boost to round off performance peaks

Variable clocks = clocks adjust to the required budget, up to a specified peak.

 

[TheSpecialOne]

Sometimes, I get tired of the rubbish at resetera and think to myself, let me come to neogaf for some respite. Then I arrive at neogaf and find it in a more embarrassing state than resetera akin to something like gamefaqs and I shake my head in disgust. So far, the only good forum is beyond3d....

One of the few places where you can attempt to have technical discussions with your peers. Here we have armchair developers who hold no qualifications and no degrees doing analysis on things they know nothing about. Reading this thread gives me a headache and I say that as someone with a software engineering degree and almost a decade of development experience. There are things in the hardware configuration I cannot confidently speak on and defer to the computer hardware engineers like my brother for example. Yet here on neogaf, we have walmart and gamestop employees, reporters, community managers, etc trying to discuss topics that are clearly out of their domain with child like analysis / reasoning patterns. Embarrassing.

 

[M1chl]

How computers work. Using my laptop with 4 cores and 8 threads, this also applies to any modern CPU and GPU. See how all the threads keep shifting clocks up and down? That is because they are adjusting based on workload. I was recording this gif which is what caused these spikes. There is no need to maintain a constant clock when you are doing something less taxing when same thing can be achieved using lower clock while saving you on power budget.

Except not really, because this is adjusting clock on idle to be less hot/takes less energy to power, but when you run it at 100% (or even 50%) then you would see no change in clocks, aside from thermal throttle.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

A nightmare.

 

[SmokSmog]

 

[LittleBigGamer]

I hope you get a bit every day.

 

[FeiRR]

Do you guys think that we will have an instant play this gen? I mean, I put in a disc into the console and can play a game straight away? Do you think something like this might work with xCloud or PSNow with installation in the background?

How do you imagine moving data instantaneously from the disc to SSD? It will still take time. But after you're done, maybe no waiting times anymore. Or so I hope.

 

[prinz_valium]

False because Cerny it can both be full speed... he even said it is most of time.

This doesn't make any sense. You've lost the plot when you try to explain 2 different design methodology with a quiet frankly facile understanding of how processor clock speed relates to power draw, performance and cooling.

1st the explanation states that the CPU gets a higher power budget than the GPU, then it further states that for the GPU to do any workload the CPU most be down-clocked significantly to redirect power to the GPU.

In reality as with PCs, you provide more than enough power for both processors to achieve their optimal power draw and performance and throttle based on thermal load.

2nd, the explanation seems to think that Xbox Series X CPU and GPU has different power lines that feeds them separate but equal amount of power. While in reality the whole system draws from a single pool of power budget on as needed basis. PS5 does the same thing, what is different is that PS5 processors are allowed to down-clock when they go over budget or when they are under budget.

No, that is exactly how it works.
By design they can not both be at 100% Frequency and 100% power budget. Otherwise you could make the clocks fixed and it would not make a difference.
And Cerny never said they're both at max speed at the same time. The whole design philosophy only makes sense that way. If the SOC could run the GPU and CPU at 100% frequency under load it would be the same classic console design like the Ps4 or Series X.

Again that is literally impossible under load. And without lod it also does not matter how high your frequency is, because it's not needed anyways.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Sometimes, I get tired of the rubbish at resetera and think to myself, let me come to neogaf for some respite. Then I arrive at neogaf and find it in a more embarrassing state than resetera akin to something like gamefaqs and I shake my head in disgust. So far, the only good forum is beyond3d....

One of the few places where you can attempt to have technical discussions with your peers. Here we have armchair developers who hold no qualifications and no degrees doing analysis on things they know nothing about. Reading this thread gives me a headache and I say that as someone with a software engineering degree and almost a decade of development experience. There are things in the hardware configuration I cannot confidently speak on and defer to the computer hardware engineers like my brother for example. Yet here on neogaf, we have walmart and gamestop employees, reporters, community managers, etc trying to discuss topics that are clearly out of their domain with child like analysis / reasoning patterns. Embarrassing.

Well, ok... I guess.
I would be personally intrigued to read something from you about these two consoles anyway.

 

[Tripolygon]

No, that is exactly how it works.
By design they can not both be at 100% Frequency and 100% power budget. Otherwise you could make the clocks fixed and it would not make a difference.

By design they can both simultaneously reach their capped frequency. That is how they determined their fixed power budget and designed their cooling system. WTF are some of you on?


"We continually run the CPU and GPU in boost mode" he said. Will both processors be running at the highest frequency all the time? probably not because the workload at any given moment changes that is why they allow the clock speed to adjust based on workload.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

Sometimes, I get tired of the rubbish at resetera and think to myself, let me come to neogaf for some respite. Then I arrive at neogaf and find it in a more embarrassing state than resetera akin to something like gamefaqs and I shake my head in disgust. So far, the only good forum is beyond3d....

One of the few places where you can attempt to have technical discussions with your peers. Here we have armchair developers who hold no qualifications and no degrees doing analysis on things they know nothing about. Reading this thread gives me a headache and I say that as someone with a software engineering degree and almost a decade of development experience. There are things in the hardware configuration I cannot confidently speak on and defer to the computer hardware engineers like my brother for example. Yet here on neogaf, we have walmart and gamestop employees, reporters, community managers, etc trying to discuss topics that are clearly out of their domain with child like analysis / reasoning patterns. Embarrassing.

Goes looking for technical discussions with people who hold qualifications on gaming forums.

 

[Caio]

Devs CONFIRMED Xbox Series X FASTER than PS5 | Velocity Architecture and Kraken on Next Generation

 

[prinz_valium]

By design they can both simultaneously reach their capped frequency. That is how they determined their fixed power budget and designed their cooling system. WTF are some of you on?

"We continually run the CPU and GPU in boost mode"

I know that. And that is exactly what I said.
100% GPU and 100% CPU at 100% power target is impossible.
Yes they continually run in boost mode. Guess where the boost start? Not at 100% max frequencies.

It's at 80%, 85% or 90%

 

[pasterpl]

How do you imagine moving data instantaneously from the disc to SSD? It will still take time. But after you're done, maybe no waiting times anymore. Or so I hope.

I would imagine that a game can be streamed (xCloud, psnow) initially when the physical media is being installed.

 

[henau212]

By design they can both simultaneously reach their capped frequency. That is how they determined their fixed power budget and designed their cooling system. WTF are some of you on?


"We continually run the CPU and GPU in boost mode" he said. Will both processors be running at the highest frequency all the time? probably not because the workload at any given moment changes that is why they allow the clock speed to adjust based on workload.

Starting Minute 38. He is talking worst case game, both GPU and CPU at max. Then both are throttled.. So no, both cannot run at absolute max at the same time.

 

[Tripolygon]

I know that. And that is exactly what I said.
100% GPU and 100% CPU at 100% power target is impossible.
Yes they continually run in boost mode. Guess where the boost start? Not at 100% max frequencies.

It's at 80%, 85% or 90%

For there to be a boost mode, there has to be a base mode. PS5 does not have base frequency, it has a max capped frequency which would have been higher according to Cerny but they settled on 3.5GHz for CPU and 2.23GHz for GPU for logic reasons.

Their boost mode = variable frequency not the same as base and boost mode on PCs and mobile processors.

 

[FeiRR]

I would imagine that a game can be streamed (xCloud, psnow) initially when the physical media is being installed.

Do you think they'll put every second console into a cloud rack just to offer a feature not many people will appreciate? Also remember that a lot of decisions are made in the USA, a country which still is medieval in terms of Internet standards (data caps? I forgot about them 20 years ago).

 

[Tripolygon]

Starting Minute 38. He is talking worst case game, both GPU and CPU at max. Then both are throttled.. So no, both cannot run at absolute max at the same time.

They specifically said they don't throttle based on temperature which is what PC and mobile processors do. They adjust frequency based on workload.

 

[yewles1]

Just putting this out here, even if people don't want to go by everthing Mark Cerny said about about a 10% drop in power, the possible biggest drop could stil result in a smaller gap than last gen. Stating an opinion.

 

[henau212]

They specifically said they don't throttle based on temperature which is what PC and mobile processors do. They adjust frequency based on workload.

Never said that. If a worst case game demands both to run at max based on workload, they will lower the frequency. Explicitly said starting from minute 38. Has nothing to do with temperature.

 

[Tripolygon]

Just putting this out here, even if people don't want to go by everthing Mark Cerny said about about a 10% drop in power, the possible biggest drop could stil result in a smaller gap than last gen. Stating an opinion.

The 10% drop in power is not the GPU performance but power draw from power supply.

 

[Tripolygon]

Never said that. If a worst case game demands both to run at max based on workload, they will lower the frequency. Explicitly said starting from minute 38. Has nothing to do with temperature.

That will never happen. And why is the worst case design target being extrapolated to be the norm?

They expect the norm for the clocks to be at or around those max clocks without the need to drop frequency.

 

[CatLady]

Quick question. I hardly ever look at this thread anymore and it has about a gazillion pages, way too many to try to catch up on. SOOO can anyone tell if we ever found out what that game OsirisBlack was describing in great deal a while ago?

 

[TheSpecialOne]

Goes looking for technical discussions with people who hold qualifications on gaming forums.

My issue is solely focused on the fact that there are a lot of pretenders here talking about things they don't know about. Where I'm from, we call them frauds or imposters. It's one thing to show an interest in a topic, it's another to speak authoritatively while talking out your ass. So far in this thread, there's a lot of talking out of your ass.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Quick question. I hardly ever look at this thread anymore and it has about a gazillion pages, way too many to try to catch up on. SOOO can anyone tell if we ever found out what that game OsirisBlack was describing in great deal a while ago?

No.

 

[geordiemp]

My issue is solely focused on the fact that there are a lot of pretenders here talking about things they don't know about. Were I'm from, we call them frauds or imposters. It's one thing to show an interest in a topic, it's another to speak authoritatively while talking out your ass. So far in this thread, there's a lot of talking out of your ass.

Your opinion on below would be interesting, the bandwith limitations of both consoles is likely the cap on performance ?

 

[TheSpecialOne]

Your opinion on below would be interesting, the bandwith limitations of both consoles is likely the cap on performance ?

I have no thoughts to share on the consoles other than at first glance, the XSX appears to be stronger. I'm familiar with the hardware configurations but not enough to speak authoritatively on machines I have not had the chance to work on. I'll leave the discussions and speculation to those who are actively developing for those machines and computer hardware engineers. From a quick glance, there are none to be found in this whole forum talkless of the thread.

 

[prinz_valium]

For there to be a boost mode, there has to be a base mode. PS5 does not have base frequency, it has a max capped frequency which would have been higher according to Cerny but they settled on 3.5GHz for CPU and 2.23GHz for GPU for logic reasons.

Their boost mode = variable frequency not the same as base and boost mode on PCs and mobile processors.

He also said a lot of nonsense in that presentation.
Like it was virtually impossible to run the CPU at 3GHZ fixed and GPU at 2GHZ fixed, but when it comes to the "super low" boost frequency of 3.5GHz CPU and 2.23GHz GPU they could've gone even higher...

Makes no sense at all.

 

[CatLady]

No.

Bummer, I was curious about that game. Thank you for the info and saving me from reading a gazillion pages.

 

[Ascend]

How computers work. Using my laptop with 4 cores and 8 threads, this also applies to any modern CPU and GPU. See how all the threads keep shifting clocks up and down? That is because they are adjusting based on workload. I was recording this gif which is what caused these spikes. There is no need to maintain a constant clock when you are doing something less taxing when same thing can be achieved using lower clock while saving you on power budget.

It still baffles me that some people do not understand that variable clocks is not the same as clock boost.

Clock boost = short boost to round off performance peaks

Variable clocks = clocks adjust to the required budget, up to a specified peak.

All true.... Except in those cases, the GPU boost and CPU boost work independently. Both clock up and down as needed and do not interfere with each other, unlike the PS5, which has been confirmed to need to balance between the CPU and GPU workload.

 

[Tripolygon]

Quick question. I hardly ever look at this thread anymore and it has about a gazillion pages, way too many to try to catch up on. SOOO can anyone tell if we ever found out what that game OsirisBlack was describing in great deal a while ago?

I don't like commenting on insider stuff but the information from insiders were all wrong.

 

[splattered]

Is that Kojima? haha

 

[Nickolaidas]

Do you guys think that we will have an instant play this gen? I mean, I put in a disc into the console and can play a game straight away? Do you think something like this might work with xCloud or PSNow with installation in the background?

Who knows? Frankly, I don't see this until the majority of the world has 200Mbps Internet connection at THE LEAST. But we'll get there, eventually.

This gen is all about no loading screens.