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[pawel86ck]

114fps for ACO
173fps for BFV
182fps for CIV
118fps for FC5
168fps for ME
237fps for Rage
151fps for Sekiro
247fps for TR
239fps for Witcher
358fps for Wolfenstein

AMD Ryzen 7 3700X Review

AMD's $330 Ryzen 7 3700X is an 8-core, 16-thread CPU that's clocked high enough to compete with Intel's offerings. Actually, its application performance matches even the more expensive Intel Core i9-9900K. Gaming performance has been increased significantly, too, thanks to the improved...

www.techpowerup.com

Seems pretty fucking fast to me at 720p when GPU bottleneck is removed.

Now, 20-30% less performance, I think would be pretty damn good for consoles, no? If we could get even lower TDP and 24mm² of die freed up for few CUs more?

Hitman 2 - miami bench scene. First gen ryzen has very good average but still dips below 60fps

The problem with CPU benchmarks is, most sites choose a typical benchmark location/scenario, but sometimes you can have 120 fps in one location, and 60 fps in another. There are however benchmarks sites that benchmark CPU's in the most demanding locations on purpose. Below you can see GTA 5 results from very CPU demanding west vinewood location:

GTA5 (extended distance sliders at max), Ryzen 2 is engough for 60fps, and not to mention first ryzen generation

And here's another site that also always choose demanding locations for their benchmarks

at 720p?

With current high end GPU's even results in 1080p arnt GPU bottleneck

 

[R600]

Benchmarks I posted where low settings on 720p to completely remove any CPU bottleneck. Yours are max settings + max LOD at 1080p. That will take toll on any GPU.

 

[pawel86ck]

Benchmarks I posted where low settings on 720p to completely remove any CPU bottleneck. Yours are max settings + max LOD at 1080p. That will take toll on any GPU.

LOL there's no reason to remove CPU bottleneck when you want to test CPU! Other sites also tests CPU's with max settings, the only difference is they choose a typical benchmark location, not demanding one. You play games with the lowest draw distance possible?

 

[R600]

Sorry, meant GPU bottleneck. There is no point in testing CPUs at 1080p and max details (and LOD) because its cleae 720p on low settings brings even more performance, therefore indicating GPU is bottleneck, not CPU

 

[TLZ]

 

[pawel86ck]

Sorry, meant GPU bottleneck. There is no point in testing CPUs at 1080p and max details (and LOD) because its cleae 720p on low settings brings even more performance, therefore indicating GPU is bottleneck, not CPU

2080ti and GPU bottleneck at 1080p? These are not games with RTX effects that would show GPU bottleneck even at 1080p. Cant you see there's a big difference between each CPU in these benchmarks? So there's no GPU bottleneck for sure, if it would be, all these CPU's would get the same result, but no, i9 is clearly the best here.

 

[CrustyBritches]

we already had laptops with 1080 in the past and now 2080.

Yes, but we're talking about APUs. What's the most powerful monolithic APU you've seen in a laptop or desktop? On top of that, which of those is paired with 16GB GDDR6 and no DDR4?

 

[vpance]

 

[Mass Shift]

 

[ANIMAL1975]

 

[SonGoku]

Yes, but we're talking about APUs. What's the most powerful monolithic APU you've seen in a laptop or desktop? On top of that, which of those is paired with 16GB GDDR6 and no DDR4?

Zen2 CCD is just 74mm2, they could make a low effort APU by duct taping a Zen2 CCD to a 5700XT die. That wouldn't be particularly hard or impressive
The problem is AMD doesn't sell APU boards they just sell CPUs with iGPUs.
Only semicustom partners would go with a tailor made APU board, which rules it out as a OEM part. At most it could be like what you speculated an Alienware semicustom APU but even that is a stretch

 

[sonomamashine]

like they did with intel

 

[SonGoku]

like they did with intel

Yeah something like that, it needs its own custom board. Kaby Lake G is not single die btw

 

[TLZ]

Dear Lord Cerny,

Stop being so smug and leak something to us poor forum peasants.

Regards,

#14tfTruther

 

[Thedtrain]

Zen2 CCD is just 74mm2, they could make a low effort APU by duct taping a Zen2 CCD to a 5700XT die. That wouldn't be particularly hard or impressive
The problem is AMD doesn't sell APU boards they just sell CPUs with iGPUs.
Only semicustom partners would go with a tailor made APU board, which rules it out as a OEM part. At most it could be like what you speculated an Alienware semicustom APU but even that is a stretch

I was actually thinking this was going into an Alienware line

 

[sonomamashine]

They recruted ex alienware ceo recently

 

[DJ12]

Word on the internet is Flute is the xbox chip.

Seems to confirm that xbox is infact weaker than PS5 if true.

That is of course if you believe that Gonzalo is the PS5 chip.

If this is true, I cannot see myself investing in next gen.

Best to just upgrade my desktop to a 3950x when they come out and just use the PC for everything, like I have been doing for the last couple of years anyway (Red Dead Redemtion birthday present, month worth of game time excluded)

 

[jonnyp]

Word on the internet is Flute is the xbox chip.

Seems to confirm that xbox is infact weaker than PS5 if true.

That is of course if you believe that Gonzalo is the PS5 chip.

If this is true, I cannot see myself investing in next gen.

Best to just upgrade my desktop to a 3950x when they come out and just use the PC for everything, like I have been doing for the last couple of years anyway (Red Dead Redemtion birthday present, month worth of game time excluded)

Yes, best to avoid all the exclusives that will come out for PS5

/s

 

[bitbydeath]

Word on the internet is Flute is the xbox chip.

Seems to confirm that xbox is infact weaker than PS5 if true.

That is of course if you believe that Gonzalo is the PS5 chip.

If this is true, I cannot see myself investing in next gen.

Best to just upgrade my desktop to a 3950x when they come out and just use the PC for everything, like I have been doing for the last couple of years anyway (Red Dead Redemtion birthday present, month worth of game time excluded)

Neither Gonzalo or Flute are capable of Ray Tracing so it's not them.

 

[vpance]

Word on the internet is Flute is the xbox chip.

Seems to confirm that xbox is infact weaker than PS5 if true.

That is of course if you believe that Gonzalo is the PS5 chip.

If this is true, I cannot see myself investing in next gen.

Best to just upgrade my desktop to a 3950x when they come out and just use the PC for everything, like I have been doing for the last couple of years anyway (Red Dead Redemtion birthday present, month worth of game time excluded)

If they pull a Gonzalo, then you can be sure another Pro/X are coming anyways. No point to jump in at launch if you already own a decent PC and can do a mild upgrade and be set again.

 

[Negotiator]

The problem is AMD doesn't sell APU boards they just sell CPUs with iGPUs.

Not sure what you mean by that.

APU board = SoC?

A SoC has everything (including the southbridge), while an APU doesn't include that.

Intel CPUs may include an iGPU, but AFAIK they're not HSA/hUMA compliant, so maybe the term "APU" is a stretch for them.

 

[SonGoku]

If they pull a Gonzalo, then you can be sure another Pro/X are coming anyways. No point to jump in at launch if you already own a decent PC and can do a mild upgrade and be set again.

Yeah gonzalo performance makes no sense
Why rush to 2020 if 9tf is all they could do? Sony especially is in no hurry, PS4 still has one last power up: $199

They could launch in 2021 if the tech really wasn't afordable to mass produce in 2020

Not sure what you mean by that.

APU board = SoC?

A SoC has everything (including the southbridge), while an APU doesn't include that.

Intel CPUs may include an iGPU, but AFAIK they're not HSA/hUMA compliant, so maybe the term "APU" is a stretch for them.

Yeah SoC, I meant AMD comercial APUs are just CPUs with integrated graphics meant to go inside traditional motherboards CPU socket
An APU with its own memory (GDDR6 in this case) and powerful gpu would need its own custom/proprietary board to feed it.

BTW does AMD make the board for consoles or just the chip die itself?

 

[Negotiator]

BTW does AMD make the board for consoles or just the chip die itself?

Marvell designed the PS4 southbridge. AMD designs only the APU (not even the drivers, they give whitepapers).

 

[R600]

Neither Gonzalo or Flute are capable of Ray Tracing so it's not them.

Except you cant know that, but you are presenting it as a fact.

 

[bitbydeath]

Except you cant know that, but you are presenting it as a fact.

It is fact.
It's confirmed the 5700/5700XT does not feature Ray Tracing.
I linked you previously on it too.

 

[R600]

It is fact.
It's confirmed the 5700/5700XT does not feature Ray Tracing.
I linked you previously on it too.

Gonzalo is not 5700 or XT. Its chip based on Navi 10, with any modifications that Sony or MS may request.

 

[Racer!]

Gonzalo is not 5700 or XT. Its chip based on Navi 10, with any modifications that Sony or MS may request.

Radeon Rays is based on Navi 20 and RDNA2. This chip has almost certainly nothing to do with PS5, but its fun to speculate I guess.

 

[R600]

Radeon Rays is based on Navi 20 and RDNA2. This chip has almost certainly nothing to do with PS5, but its fun to speculate I guess.

Thats not how AMD custom design works at all. RDNA2 is almost certainly very similar GPU design with few bits and pieces + RT, which Sony and MS can modify as they see fit.

They have AMD roadmap, and as it was case with last gen consoles and mid gen refreshes, they can implement things not in current AMD lineup even though they may be based on current GPU.

It is funny how guys who have been decoding chips for years, before they end up in tech site, think its clearly PS5 chip, yet guys on this forum say "Nah...they will be using RDNA2 therefore that chip is not PS5".

 

[Lort]

Hitman 2 - miami bench scene. First gen ryzen has very good average but still dips below 60fps

The problem with CPU benchmarks is, most sites choose a typical benchmark location/scenario, but sometimes you can have 120 fps in one location, and 60 fps in another. There are however benchmarks sites that benchmark CPU's in the most demanding locations on purpose. Below you can see GTA 5 results from very CPU demanding west vinewood location:

GTA5 (extended distance sliders at max), Ryzen 2 is engough for 60fps, and not to mention first ryzen generation

And here's another site that also always choose demanding locations for their benchmarks

With current high end GPU's even results in 1080p arnt GPU bottleneck

Im confused where you meaning to point out that the jaguar does fine at supporting 30 fps for current gen .. ( very few console games drop below 30 fps) and that pc despite being so powerful still are primarily GPU limited?

You make it sound like the last gen consoles were perfectly balanced ... ( since the GPU tech couldnt support 60 fps and even now a modern gen CPU is needed to drive 60 fps no drop anyway. )

 

[Lort]

Radeon Rays is based on Navi 20 and RDNA2. This chip has almost certainly nothing to do with PS5, but its fun to speculate I guess.

You read all that from a part number? Your amazing or full of ....

The next gen consoles have hardware ray tracing and other optimizations which all take up silicon space. None of these customisations would be used in a simple 3dmark and so the performance would reflect only base capability.

 

[bitbydeath]

Gonzalo is not 5700 or XT. Its chip based on Navi 10, with any modifications that Sony or MS may request.

Navi 10 does not support Ray Tracing. You require Navi 20 for that feature.

 

[R600]

Navi 10 does not support Ray Tracing. You require Navi 20 for that feature.

Except in semi custom you dont. You can pick and chose, as they already have in past, to put Vega features 2yrs away into Polaris based GPU.

 

[bitbydeath]

Except in semi custom you dont. You can pick and chose, as they already have in past, to put Vega features 2yrs away into Polaris based GPU.

No, that's not how that works.
Navi 10 is the GPU portion of the 5700/5700XT.
Ray Tracing lives directly on the GPU and has been confirmed to not support Ray Tracing.

 

[R600]

No, that's not how that works.
Navi 10 is the GPU portion of the 5700/5700XT.
Ray Tracing lives directly on the GPU and has been confirmed to not support Ray Tracing.

Nah, Navi 10 Lite (which Gonzalo is) is code for Navi iGPU. Has nothing to do with a fact if or not it has RT hardware.

When these consoles where starting their design, MS and Sony looked at what AMD has in their roadmap and picked and chose which bits they want on a chip. So yes, it absolutely can be Navi 1st gen based with RT hardware, as was a case for PS4/Pro and Xbox One X (especially Pro - Polaris based with Vega features like FP16).

 

[bitbydeath]

Nah, Navi 10 Lite (which Gonzalo is) is code for Navi iGPU. Has nothing to do with a fact if or not it has RT hardware.

When these consoles where starting their design, MS and Sony looked at what AMD has in their roadmap and picked and chose which bits they want on a chip. So yes, it absolutely can be Navi 1st gen based with RT hardware, as was a case for PS4/Pro and Xbox One X (especially Pro - Polaris based with Vega features like FP16).

Do you have any links to back that up? I don't think you can just pick or choose Ray Tracing to be on a card. It's not like extending the CU count, it would change the card drastically.

 

[TeamGhobad]

apparently there is a lot of thermal headroom for a 64CU Navi

 

[sonomamashine]

No, that's not how that works.
Navi 10 is the GPU portion of the 5700/5700XT.
Ray Tracing lives directly on the GPU and has been confirmed to not support Ray Tracing.

as R R600 said, it can be a customization Sony & Ms chose to implement on the silicon, it could be a navi 10 + RT APU, AMD choosing later to implement it on navi 20

 

[bitbydeath]

as R R600 said, it can be a customization Sony & Ms chose to implement on the silicon, it could be a navi 10 + RT APU, AMD choosing later to implement it on navi 20

It's not on the APU. Sony already confirmed it was directly on the GPU.

 

[luca_29_bg]

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/18701766 but this 28k score for the gpu it's really high O_O

 

[pawel86ck]

Im confused where you meaning to point out that the jaguar does fine at supporting 30 fps for current gen .. ( very few console games drop below 30 fps) and that pc despite being so powerful still are primarily GPU limited?

You make it sound like the last gen consoles were perfectly balanced ... ( since the GPU tech couldnt support 60 fps and even now a modern gen CPU is needed to drive 60 fps no drop anyway. )

And I'm confused too , because I have never said anything like that. In fact I dont consider 8'th gen consoles perfectly balanced systems, just the opposite because of very weak (tablet like) CPU. "R600" was suggesting all games out there can be maxed out at around 150fps on modern CPU's, so I have posted CPU benchmarks that shows even the best CPU's out there can dip below 60fps in current games.

 

[R600]

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/18701766 but this 28k score for the gpu it's really high O_O

I dont think this is Gonzalo, as Apisak said there was only overall score for Gonzalo.

Could be 2080S.

 

[sonomamashine]

It's not on the APU. Sony already confirmed it was directly on the GPU.

APU = CPU + GPU on a single die, tha f...

 

[luca_29_bg]

I dont think this is Gonzalo, as Apisak said there was only overall score for Gonzalo.

Could be 2080S.

Are you sure ? Because on era many think this is still gonzalo :/

People, we need real leaks!

 

[R600]

Are you sure ? Because on era many think this is still gonzalo :/

People, we need real leaks!

 

[luca_29_bg]

yes i know this tweet, but they think this is another bench. The cpu seems really low too... :/

 

[McHuj]

I wish we also had a PS4 pro score.

 

[xool]

I hate to be the "King has no clothes" boy - but apart from this tweet - where is the benchmark ?

I mean where on here https://www.3dmark.com

 

[luca_29_bg]

Looks like this was debunked in beyod 3d forum, Apisak didn't find the graphics score, just the overall score. He said the graphics score was hidden. While this one shows the graphics score. The perfomance of the cpu should match a cut down version in cache of zen 2, if true, things will be really interesting!

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

The Gonzalo/Flute navel gazing is getting really tedious. All because there is nothing else to discuss and people are incapable of drawing their own conclusions unless it is spoon fed to them.

Let's simplify things to help the slow children in the class...

• Gonzalo/Flute are weak
• New consoles are targeting 4K/VR both requiring serious graphical horsepower
• 3rd party devs are happy or have been wowed by the grunt of these new machines
• Pachter has said (paraphrasing) PS5 could be $800 due to the spec it's targeting
• PS5 is ahead on Scarlett if you believe the dev rumours
• Sony have made serious bank this generation

All of this obviously points to the new consoles using 1st gen Navi without RT and <=40 CUs just because the power constraints of a console cannot change - ever.

/s/s/s in case it wasn't obvious.

GPUs are adding transistors, to do more you need to add more. This is outpacing node shrinks, so more power will be needed.

These are not your Grandpa's consoles any more.

Sony's Ryan has said he wants a fast transition (~3 years) to the PS5 as the main profit driver from the PS4. For a 100m user base transitioning that quickly, you are going to need an incredible spec with an amazingly low price to match because console buyers are price sensitive.

 

[xool]

GPUs are adding transistors, to do more you need to add more. This is outpacing node shrinks, so more power will be needed.

These are not your Grandpa's consoles any more.

This is my feeling too - the key metric for next gen seems to be "how much power (Watts) are Sony/MS willing/able to engineer for"

Lot of people seem settled for a 8 core Zen2 + slightly nerfed 5700XT combo APU + biscuits - but this seems to be a 250W+ system (not power supply, but consumption)

I feel sorry for people with TV cabinets with smoke glass doors - it's gonna be hot in there :flames