Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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The tempest engine is the one thing about PS5 that I'm sceptical about.

Do these sound-boosting techs really make a worthwhile difference? Afraid I won't notice, It's like my ears are constantly drunk and horny, they're happy with whatever they get.
 
DaGamez said:
You only need to move one model to memory, moving 50 different models in the same frame would be more demanding.

I'm also curious why you think HW RT would improve performance of the demo, given everything we've seen that is a highly unlikely scenario. Use any game available and toggle RT on/off, there is typically a performance penalty (doesn't matter if you have dedicated hardware for the BVH or not).
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Because it's using 4-3 types of ray tracing via software. Heck, even PS4 (even since PS3) is using ray tracing mildly in many games already, one of them being Dreams:






Give that "mild" yet very satisfying RT to the intersection engines and you're giving it a boost.
 
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RicochetBullet said:
The tempest engine is the one thing about PS5 that I'm sceptical about.

Do these sound-boosting techs really make a worthwhile difference? Afraid I won't notice, It's like my ears are constantly drunk and horny, they're happy with whatever they get.
Click to expand...
It makes.
But you need compatible equipment to have the results you are looking at.

The TV speakers won't give you that.
 
RicochetBullet said:
The tempest engine is the one thing about PS5 that I'm sceptical about.

Do these sound-boosting techs really make a worthwhile difference? Afraid I won't notice, It's like my ears are constantly drunk and horny, they're happy with whatever they get.
Click to expand...

It will most likely depend what kind of audio devixe you are using and if those hrtf profiles qill suit you.

Try watch the UE 5 Demo with a headset/headphone. Watch at the character and the environment shes in and listen to the sound. To me it felt way better and realistic then the games I played latly.
 
RicochetBullet said:
The tempest engine is the one thing about PS5 that I'm sceptical about.

Do these sound-boosting techs really make a worthwhile difference? Afraid I won't notice, It's like my ears are constantly drunk and horny, they're happy with whatever they get.
Click to expand...

I always game with a nice headset and it seems like I should be able to hear the difference that way, which excites me, I am a bit of an audio nerd for gaming. I remember always upgrading my sound cards on my old PCs when I was younger, and my first 5.1 surround speaker set. I think there was a quote from Cerny that said even TV speakers would let you hear the difference next gen. I could be wrong.

Hoping that the 3d audio next gen is on a whole new level.
 
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Bonsaibäumchen said:
Maybe you should watch Road to PS5 again.
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It is still dependent of the audio equipment.
For example you will need a better headset that can output what Tempest is doing.
Of course I don't know the requirements but I know cheaper stereo headsets and the TV speakers won't give you the difference he is looking.
 
RicochetBullet said:
The tempest engine is the one thing about PS5 that I'm sceptical about.

Do these sound-boosting techs really make a worthwhile difference? Afraid I won't notice, It's like my ears are constantly drunk and horny, they're happy with whatever they get.
Click to expand...

As with anything audio it's dependant on the implementation,the equipment, and the big factor is mix.

You can have the most expensive equipment in the world but if you get a Dolby Atmos mix that isn't mixed properly it can sound like trash next to a cheap Atmos setup with a properly mixed Atmos track.

Depending on the tools, implementation,and developer familiarity, it could be just as good as 3D sound that's already on the market and on paper it can be better.

Atmos technically can do everything tempest can just not in its current form. So it's not really new technology but Sony's take on it.
 
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Nikana said:
As with anything audio it's dependant on the implementation,the equipment, and the big factor is mix.

You can have the most expensive equipment in the world but if you get a Dolby Atmos mix that isn't mixed properly it can sound like trash next to a cheap Atmos setup with a properly mixed Atmos track.

Depending on the tools, implementation,and developer familiarity, it could be just as good as 3D sound that's already on the market and on paper it can be better.

Atmos technically can do everything tempest can just not in its current form. So it's not really new technology but Sony's take on it.
Click to expand...

I will just be glad to ditch my astro mix amp sitting on the floor and plug my senheisser game zero directly into the controller (hopefully)
 
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RicochetBullet said:
The tempest engine is the one thing about PS5 that I'm sceptical about.

Do these sound-boosting techs really make a worthwhile difference? Afraid I won't notice, It's like my ears are constantly drunk and horny, they're happy with whatever they get.
Click to expand...

Well, while it's not as noticeable arguably as graphic improvements, sound quality IS a big deal. Just go listen to an old cassette tape compared to your DVD audio or CD audio. Go compare a 128kb mp3 in your good headphones compared to a 320kb or lossless version. You can tell a big difference. I can tell you sound on the PS3 was a lot better than the PS4 as well.

If in your game you can really hear things much more realistically and if...ideally sounds and things seem to come behind you even without you having a dolby 7.x setup...that would be a huge deal.
 
I don't know if I am follow everything well but the polemic is:

1)The demo can run in laptop with good specs:

a) Of course it will, the engine is made to be scalable another different thing is if run with same level of details at the same we saw

b)The tech demo was done in PC so at least Sony give access to all the people involve to the SDK of PS5 they need to tested locally
(the build process take time). When Sony for example certified you as a PS4 developer you are under NDA yeah even when is already
release hardware now imagine with a not released i, if you ever work for a company of software or hardware you know
some countries has some specific rules like for example China.

2)With software update a current PC and XSX will reach or exceed the SSD/IO combination of PS5

a)If you actually believe this stop reading this forum start to actually programing or studing because man is okay to not understand something
but is not to believe don't have to even studied and work per years in the industry like the same Cerny and Andrew Goossen of Xbox who modified
its respective IO hardware just for say everything can be solved by an update.

b)You cannot use as argument as Software one side because ,,,,, well this can be done any of those companies.
 
Lawrence 'Chunk' Cohen said:
[...] I think there was a quote from Cerny that said even TV speakers would let you hear the difference next gen. I could be wrong.

Hoping that the 3d audio next gen is on a whole new level.
Click to expand...

Thats what he said.
Theres basically going to be a menue to configure the sound output depending on the device you are using, the hrtf profile you are using and maybe even the distance to you speakers.

Then the audioengine will calcute how to modify the soundoutput so you'll receive the sound like you are actually ingame.

 
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Metroiddarks said:
I don't know if I am follow everything well but the polemic is:

1)The demo can run in laptop with good specs:

a) Of course it will, the engine is made to be scalable another different thing is if run with same level of details at the same we saw

b)The tech demo was done in PC so at least Sony give access to all the people involve to the SDK of PS5 they need to tested locally
(the build process take time). When Sony for example certified you as a PS4 developer you are under NDA yeah even when is already
release hardware now imagine with a not released i, if you ever work for a company of software or hardware you know
some countries has some specific rules like for example China.

2)With software update a current PC and XSX will reach or exceed the SSD/IO combination of PS5

a)If you actually believe this stop reading this forum start to actually programing or studing because man is okay to not understand something
but is not to believe don't have to even studied and work per years in the industry like the same Cerny and Andrew Goossen of Xbox who modified
its respective IO hardware just for say everything can be solved by an update.

b)You cannot use as argument as Software one side because ,,,,, well this can be done any of those companies.
Click to expand...


You realise the mistranslation, he mentioend 1080p on the laptop on edit mode and it is unclear what was achieved.....

Beyond 3d console tech someone did a proper translation.

Who knows.
 
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So, how do we speed up ray tracing? Maybe improve the speed of intersection calculations by a sparse sampling of a scene, coupled with a giant cache stacked on the GPU?
 
Bonsaibäumchen said:
Thats what he said.
Theres basically going to be a menue to configure the sound output depending on the device you are using, the hrtf profile you are using and maybe even the distance to you speakers.

Then the audioengine will calcute how to modify the soundoutput so you'll receive the sound like you are actually ingame.

Click to expand...


I'm skeptical on this unless they use the controller mic as calibration tool.
 
GermanZepp said:
Why wouldn't? Not take advantage probably means more work to them.
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Because multiplat games will have to take into account the slowest SSD of the two consoles. Ergo, they won't take full advantage of the PS5 SSD as much as the PS5 exclusives will.

For example, if WB makes a Flash game (based on the DC comics), and they make The Flash fast enough to run through an entire city in ten seconds on the Series X and three seconds on the PS5, they will need to make him travel in ten seconds on the PS5 version in the end as well, in order for the two versions to play identically.
 
geordiemp said:
You realise the mistranslation, he mentioend 1080p on the laptop on edit mode and it is unclear what was achieved.....

Beyond 3d console tech someone did a proper translation.

Who knows.
Click to expand...
I just read it and makes sense.

I don't' know why the people choose to see conspirations everywhere.
 
ethomaz said:
It is still dependent of the audio equipment.
For example you will need a better headset that can output what Tempest is doing.
Of course I don't know the requirements but I know cheaper stereo headsets and the TV speakers won't give you the difference he is looking.
Click to expand...

Do you know that a properly mixed album is tested at multiple sources, and not just whatever top of the line monitors it was mixed in? You need to balance the audio.so that it sounds good with whatever potato speaker you have, your car, your TV, your crappy or expensive earbuds, headphones, etc.

By having more sources (think 10 Vs 30, for example) and a better HRTF profile (tailored or not to you) you can perceive 3D audio with a stereo, or even mono system. This gets way more technical than I'm willing to explain, but you can read more here:

en.m.wikipedia.org

Head-related transfer function - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

TL DR: having more sources also allows you to create a better 3D picture in your non 3D audio monitor set up.

Source: I've been a musician for more than a decade and have mixed and mastered albums myself.
 
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RicochetBullet said:
The tempest engine is the one thing about PS5 that I'm sceptical about.

Do these sound-boosting techs really make a worthwhile difference? Afraid I won't notice, It's like my ears are constantly drunk and horny, they're happy with whatever they get.
Click to expand...
The sound has years without the correct care in consoles if you heard for example the tech demo of Unreal in the part where rocks falls
you will heard reverberation this a very expensive for the GPU and CPU and now the PS5 can do it withou using resources of those.

So if even if you don't heard well, see it as this way you will have better graphics between other things because now the sound use resources from another
part.

BTW I found funny how some members of the discord group are agree every time someone say something bad or had real doubt like you
about if the PS5 is worth about some spec or found funny if someone says something good of PS5 but hey they think that group was horrible yeah sure....
 
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Nikana said:
I'm skeptical on this unless they use the controller mic as calibration tool.
Click to expand...
A certain degree of skepticism is healthy.

Theres a sony patent somewhere which states that the controller might actually have 3 mics. The intention was to use those so they can track your position and filter out other noises/voices. I wouldn't be surprised if they could use that to calculate your headposition even better.
Edit: https://segmentnext.com/2020/04/08/dualsense-microphone-array/

I'm quite optimistic about it considering our time alle the computational capabilities and some serious math. ( not that I'm capable to do that math but I bow before all those mathgeeks )
 
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You forgot Mr. Tempest has a special personal doorway in Mr PS5 company.
Yet MrXsX would need to take Mr. Tempests box by ordering the 12th box carrier to attend to Mr Tempests box therby allowing only 11 normal boxes through.
 
Bo_Hazem said:
If you put all tech and sorcery available in the world into Minecraft I won't be impressed. This game makes me wanna vomit when I look at it, I can't wrap my head around how someone would attempt to play it with the likes of Dreams or LittleBigPlanet that are more refined and creative.

But it's pretty famous, which makes me question my existence on Earth. Better reach Elon Musk to sign me up in his Martian mission.
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I know, but I showed my six year olds and my teenager and they were trying to figure out how to install the RT version. So I must not be raising them right. At their age I was playing Quake, Doom and Zork. The days of tape drive modems were amazing.

Really is awesome to see use go from monochrome pixels to actual real-time raytracing. There are going to be some monster PC gpus soon, and it sounds like I should have waited until next year to upgrade.. Ugh!

I was building my own machines before I could write, my dad tried to teach me assembly before my abc's so I really enjoy the PC space. The cost is what kills me, now that I am married with kids it is harder to justify a threadripper!

PS5 and XSX will be easier because I can tie it to the kids birthdays. 😁

Delayed post by 12-hours due to kids... Lol
 
Bonsaibäumchen said:
A certain degree of skepticism is healthy.

Theres a sony patent somewhere which states that the controller might actually have 3 mics. The intention was to use those so they can track your position and filter out other noises/voices. I wouldn't be surprised if they could use that to calculate your headposition even better.
Edit: https://segmentnext.com/2020/04/08/dualsense-microphone-array/

I'm quite optimistic about it considering our time alle the computational capabilities and some serious math. ( not that I'm capable to do that math but I bow before all those mathgeeks )
Click to expand...

If this is true then it at least shows they aren't trying to blow smoke up our asses. You can't have proper 3d audio with out a good algorithm to measure distances.
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
I believe there is an XSS
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But wouldn't developers have a development kit by now, I just can't see how there wouldn't be I'm Major league by now from some developer confirming the existence of an Xbox series s, I mean how could it exist and be in the hands of developers right now and not leak?
 
Metroiddarks said:
The sound has years without the correct care in consoles if you heard for example the tech demo of Unreal in the part where rocks falls
you will reverberation this a very expensive for the GPU and CPU and know the PS5 can do it withou using resources of those.

So if even if you don't heard well, see it as this way you will have better graphics between other things because now the sound use resources from another
part.

BTW I found funny how some members of the discord group are agree every time someone say something bad or had real doubt like you
about if the PS5 is worth about some spec or found funny if someone says something good of PS5 but hey they think that group was horrible yeah sure....
Click to expand...
Heard it on a 5.1. Incredible. Cinema-like.
Just wonder what hit XsX cpu will take to process Convolution Reverb?
 
Thirty7ven said:
Regarding the information coming from China presentation on U5, you can find it at: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/unreal-engine-5-2021-tech-demo.61740/page-28






By the way, I just love how a guy in a chinese forum, posting on a thread with around 6 or 7 users fanboy warring each other says he "called" the Epic dude and got from him that they were using a 2080, then he himself speculated that they were using a 970 EVO, and that shit is now being parroted around the web like fact. It's fucking hilarious.
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Which makes me doubt that the Lumen in the land of Nanite tech demo was actually leveraging the full capabilities of the PS5 I/O. It's way too early for a third party dev or a third party middleware engine to be leveraging the capabilities of a piece of hardware not yet fully released, they might have devkits but that doesn't mean they can leverage their hardware fully. I think there is power in the I/O that was untapped for that demo, meaning that we'll see graphics tech get more efficient at using that unit as time goes on but for now, the UE5 tech demo has given us our first glimpse at what that custom I/O is capable of.
 
Nivek OnlyOn said:
Heard it on a 5.1. Incredible. Cinema-like.
Just wonder what hit XsX cpu will take to process Convolution Reverb?
Click to expand...

"Project Acoustics – Incubated over a decade by Microsoft Research, Project Acoustics accurately models sound propagation physics in mixed reality and games, employed by many AAA experiences today. It is unique in simulating wave effects like diffraction in complex scene geometries without straining CPU, enabling a much more immersive and lifelike auditory experience. Plug-in support for both the Unity and Unreal game engines empower the sound designer with expressive controls to mold reality. Developers will be able to easily leverage Project Acoustics with Xbox Series X through the addition of a new custom audio hardware block. "

XSX has dedicated audio hardware, and can use hardware accelerated RT based 3d audio just like the PS5. Should have a negligible impact.
 
IllegalLemon said:
Which makes me doubt that the Lumen in the land of Nanite tech demo was actually leveraging the full capabilities of the PS5 I/O. It's way too early for a third party dev or a third party middleware engine to be leveraging the capabilities of a piece of hardware not yet fully released, they might have devkits but that doesn't mean they can leverage their hardware fully. I think there is power in the I/O that was untapped for that demo, meaning that we'll see graphics tech get more efficient at using that unit as time goes on but for now, the UE5 tech demo has given us our first glimpse at what that custom I/O is capable of.
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Plus the tech is still in beta form so there's lots of room for more optimisation that will increase efficiency and thus performance. Either way, it's way too early to tell at this point in time.
 
Andodalf said:
"Project Acoustics – Incubated over a decade by Microsoft Research, Project Acoustics accurately models sound propagation physics in mixed reality and games, employed by many AAA experiences today. It is unique in simulating wave effects like diffraction in complex scene geometries without straining CPU, enabling a much more immersive and lifelike auditory experience. Plug-in support for both the Unity and Unreal game engines empower the sound designer with expressive controls to mold reality. Developers will be able to easily leverage Project Acoustics with Xbox Series X through the addition of a new custom audio hardware block. "

XSX has dedicated audio hardware, and can use hardware accelerated RT based 3d audio just like the PS5. Should have a negligible impact.
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Diffraction is not Convolution Reverb. Just need an opinion cos Tempest dont use ram, it uses DMAC on io. Frees up a ton on PS5
 
Agnostic2020 said:
The interviews asked Tim sweeney can this demo run on 2070 super with nvme and he said yes it can . But if question was can this demo run on iPhone 11 the answer would have been still yes it can. This a scalable engine and can and will run on everything .
Click to expand...
This is like the Elemental tech demo, we had the demo running in PS4 and PC but that doesn't mean the quality was the same.
 
Bonsaibäumchen said:
A certain degree of skepticism is healthy.

Theres a sony patent somewhere which states that the controller might actually have 3 mics. The intention was to use those so they can track your position and filter out other noises/voices. I wouldn't be surprised if they could use that to calculate your headposition even better.
Edit: https://segmentnext.com/2020/04/08/dualsense-microphone-array/

I'm quite optimistic about it considering our time alle the computational capabilities and some serious math. ( not that I'm capable to do that math but I bow before all those mathgeeks )
Click to expand...

Nikana said:
If this is true then it at least shows they aren't trying to blow smoke up our asses. You can't have proper 3d audio with out a good algorithm to measure distances.
Click to expand...


Link to patent:


"In another embodiment, the controller 10 may include one or more microphones for capturing sound from the interactive environment. In some embodiments, the microphones may be arranged as an array of microphones. In one embodiment, the arrangement constitutes a linear array of microphones. When three or more microphones are included in the array of microphones, it is possible to determine the location of a sound source relative to the microphone array based on analysis of the captured audio data from the microphone array. More specifically, a sound source can be localized relative to the microphone array based on the relative timing of its sound as captured by each of the microphones of the microphone array. Taken in combination with the known location and orientation of the controller (e.g. as determined based on sensors and tracking methods as defined elsewhere herein), and by extension the known location and orientation of the microphone array, then the location of the sound source within the interactive environment can be determined. Furthermore, captured sound can be processed to exclude sounds which do not emanate from a certain region of the interactive environment."
Click to expand...
 
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Nivek OnlyOn said:
Diffraction is not Convolution Reverb. Just need an opinion cos Tempest dont use ram, it uses DMAC on io. Frees up a ton on PS5
Click to expand...


While not being ram intensive in volume, it does of use ram, just not in a huge footprint due to the perfect 100% VALU mark talks about. It still moves a ton of data, and as Mark says, it can even move enough to negatively impact system performance if unchecked.

"Bandwidth-wise, the Tempest engine can use over 20GB/s, but we have to be a little careful because we don't want the audio to take a notch out of the graphics processing. If the audio processing uses too much bandwidth, that can have a deleterious effect if the graphics processing happens to want to saturate the system bandwidth at the same time."

If it can potentially cause "deleterious effect" on the system bandwidth, it's capable of hitting the Memory hard.
 
Can't June 4th just come already?
qW.gif
 
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