hemo memo
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Yes. They'll not drop pre-orders out of the blue. I expect a show on the first week of August with pre-orders.
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Yes. They'll not drop pre-orders out of the blue. I expect a show on the first week of August with pre-orders.
Imtjnotu
Member
AveragePhoenix
Member
I don't see MS announcing the price first, Unless Sony's august event is *really* late. I don't think they want to repeat 2013.
Another posibility is, they announce Lockhart at $249 and the XSX at $449, I don't see them announcing first if it's $499
Hehe. I say this cause we should we talking more about games, right? Hardware was revealed ages ago. Let's focus on the event comming up.There are some good genuine tech people trying to have an honest conversation in this thread.
I am not one of these.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Could you and others stop bringing these fucking morons into this thread?
sircaw
Banned
I think until we have the Sony console breakdown speculation is going to go on for a fair bit.
PaintTinJr
Gold Member
Apologies in advance if it feels like a re-run on the XsX memory bandwidth discussions - I really don't think it is.
Anyway, it occurred to me that it was stated that XsX IO/decompression is done on a CPU core, so on that premise, if a game is streaming continuously in a REYES situation, how much of the effective 560GB/s peak memory bandwidth is the XsX able to utilise? And how much of it is lost to CPU involvement in IO, as it was vaguely stated IIRC that the CPU use reduces asymmetric access bandwidth down to 336GB/s.
Taking that thought about the IO/decompressor a bit further, when looking at the RAW versus decompression unit limits on the two consoles, the XsX is 2.4GB/s raw and 6GB/s through CPU core VA decompression, which is a max 2.5x benefit.
The PS5 is 5.5GB/s raw and 22GB/s through IO complex decompression , which is a max 4x benefit.
Looking at the PS5, because it has a simple unified memory setup, for it state 22GB/s theoretical figure the IO complex is(IMO) copying at maximum width from the SSD at raw and then through the decompressor, outputting to all 8 of the 32bit GDDR6 modules simultaneously, so we can then say that the 4x is a 256bit width(in the IO complex) and the 1x raw represents 64bit from the SSD controller interfacing with the 64bit Zen2 subsystems.
From the above, it seems like the 12 channel SSD in the PS5 is only internally different, so presumably the XsX SSD is also 1x at 64bit for its 2.4GB/s and (2.5 x 64bit) 160bit at output from CPU decompression through AVX2 or custom SIMD – which interestingly isn't the 6 x 32bit memory channels (of GDDR6 @14Gbps) giving 336GB/s bandwidth, which was expected above. Instead the 160bits is exactly half the memory width of the 10x 32bit memory channels that gives the GPU 10GB of GDDR6 their 560GB/s bandwidth.
So if what I've speculated makes sense, and the XsX decompressor expands compressed data to memory at 160bit width – which seems compatible as it fits inside both the 10GB's 320bit width and the 6GB's 192bit width - then a logical question arises: Does the XsX's asymmetric setup actually have a 3rd bandwidth setting that is 280GB/s - when copying from or to the SSD?
Anyway, it occurred to me that it was stated that XsX IO/decompression is done on a CPU core, so on that premise, if a game is streaming continuously in a REYES situation, how much of the effective 560GB/s peak memory bandwidth is the XsX able to utilise? And how much of it is lost to CPU involvement in IO, as it was vaguely stated IIRC that the CPU use reduces asymmetric access bandwidth down to 336GB/s.
Taking that thought about the IO/decompressor a bit further, when looking at the RAW versus decompression unit limits on the two consoles, the XsX is 2.4GB/s raw and 6GB/s through CPU core VA decompression, which is a max 2.5x benefit.
The PS5 is 5.5GB/s raw and 22GB/s through IO complex decompression , which is a max 4x benefit.
Looking at the PS5, because it has a simple unified memory setup, for it state 22GB/s theoretical figure the IO complex is(IMO) copying at maximum width from the SSD at raw and then through the decompressor, outputting to all 8 of the 32bit GDDR6 modules simultaneously, so we can then say that the 4x is a 256bit width(in the IO complex) and the 1x raw represents 64bit from the SSD controller interfacing with the 64bit Zen2 subsystems.
From the above, it seems like the 12 channel SSD in the PS5 is only internally different, so presumably the XsX SSD is also 1x at 64bit for its 2.4GB/s and (2.5 x 64bit) 160bit at output from CPU decompression through AVX2 or custom SIMD – which interestingly isn't the 6 x 32bit memory channels (of GDDR6 @14Gbps) giving 336GB/s bandwidth, which was expected above. Instead the 160bits is exactly half the memory width of the 10x 32bit memory channels that gives the GPU 10GB of GDDR6 their 560GB/s bandwidth.
So if what I've speculated makes sense, and the XsX decompressor expands compressed data to memory at 160bit width – which seems compatible as it fits inside both the 10GB's 320bit width and the 6GB's 192bit width - then a logical question arises: Does the XsX's asymmetric setup actually have a 3rd bandwidth setting that is 280GB/s - when copying from or to the SSD?
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sircaw
Banned
You just know this shit is going to come back and bite those fanboys so damn hard.
AveragePhoenix
Member
Which is really on sony TBH. Their lack of transparency compared to MS is disappointing. I don't think anyone can disagree.
J_Gamer.exe
Member
Sinthor
Gold Member
I agree. It seems a bit ridiculous that the Xbox One X would support 4k and not the PS5 that is way more powerful. But we'll see. I just think these fanboys are hanging their butts WAAAAY too far over the edge with all of this. It's very likely to hurt them in the end. (see what I did there?)
sircaw
Banned
Maybe or Sony is extremely confident in their product. Microsoft is the one who has had to come out all guns blazing. Sony are the Market leaders and will still be so this next generation. As long as they produce a good quality system and have great exclusive games they have zero worries. After last generation i would not doubt it either.
I am interested in Microsoft for a few games but lets face it, it is hard to leave an ecosystem once you invested in it. I have spent hundreds of pounds on my system with games, and i am a cheap arse. Others have entire catalogues, getting those to move, there needs to be something really special to happen.
HawarMiran
Banned
your argument can't pass through my tinfoil hat. sorrySo i guess Cerny is also exaggerating when he acknowledged how loud a lot of the units are.
AveragePhoenix
Member
Also, important question, Does the PS5 have an equivalent to Quick Resume? This hasn't been clarified, has it?
Thirty7ven
Banned
I agree. It seems a bit ridiculous that the Xbox One X would support 4k and not the PS5 that is way more powerful. But we'll see. I just think these fanboys are hanging their butts WAAAAY too far over the edge with all of this. It's very likely to hurt them in the end. (see what I did there?)
Unlikely. These mouth breathers will grab another olive branch straight away.
Quick resume already exists on PS4. The question is if it will support multiple games. Sony hasn't showed anything about the OS, interface, features etc
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AveragePhoenix
Member
If you're confident, you show your guns. MS wouldn't be all guns blazing if they weren't confident in their product. Also, remember PS3?Maybe or Sony is extremely confident in their product. Microsoft is the one who has had to come out all guns blazing. Sony are the Market leaders and will still be so this next generation. As long as they produce a good quality system and have great exclusive games they have zero worries. After last generation i would not doubt it either.
I am interested in Microsoft for a few games but lets face it, it is hard to leave an ecosystem once you invested in it. I have spent hundreds of pounds on my system with games, and i am a cheap arse. Others have entire catalogues, getting those to move, there needs to be something really special to happen.
AveragePhoenix
Member
PS4P: 30 FPS, checkerboarding "4k"
XOX: 30 FPS, 4k
PS5: 60 FPS, Raytracing, checkerboarding "4k"
XSX: 60 FPS, Raytracing, 4k.
Not saying that will be the case, this is just for the people who say it wouldn't make sense.
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HawarMiran
Banned
Sorry I didn't meet people whose console were noisy. I am not denying that there are some. But I am sure it is blown out of proportion.
AveragePhoenix
Member
Quick resume *is* support for multiple games...
SportsFan581
Member
I would assume they would, just because in the streaming age, that's the difference between picking up exactly where you left off and starting back at the last save point.
sircaw
Banned
.
When you have a good hand in poker you don't start shooting your mouth off telling every one about it. you wait for the right moment to deliver. If they have the good's their show will show it
Microsoft are going to be better this generation, there is no way around it, they were frankly a disgrace last generation. I think they will deliver at there conference, but, people need to take things with a grain of salt, there has been so much disinformation lately from fanboys, fud patrol and some very strange double speak messages from Phil and his other execs.
People have been constantly attacking Sony every day, there is some new bullshit coming our way. Sony seem to be acting with a bit more class, binding their time.
There is no need to try and belittle the others product if you are confident in what you have.
To long of a post, you get the drift.
When you have a good hand in poker you don't start shooting your mouth off telling every one about it. you wait for the right moment to deliver. If they have the good's their show will show it
Microsoft are going to be better this generation, there is no way around it, they were frankly a disgrace last generation. I think they will deliver at there conference, but, people need to take things with a grain of salt, there has been so much disinformation lately from fanboys, fud patrol and some very strange double speak messages from Phil and his other execs.
People have been constantly attacking Sony every day, there is some new bullshit coming our way. Sony seem to be acting with a bit more class, binding their time.
There is no need to try and belittle the others product if you are confident in what you have.
To long of a post, you get the drift.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
It is to be expected that XSX will push visuals further in some key aspects. How much of an impact it will have is TBD.
sircaw
Banned
Microsoft will have 4 games? that will quick resume +average of 6 seconds plus
What ever Sony has on there disk will probably be able to quick resume as the ssd is so much faster. that's if the developers allow it i suppose. I am not technical, perhaps one of the other lab rats in here will tell you.
I am more Pinky than brain.
I do have a sexy tail though, its something.
AveragePhoenix
Member
People attack MS everyday too, the fanboyism on both sides is horrible.
Also... "There is no need to try and belittle the others product if you are confident in what you have"
You might wanna tell that to Sony, buddy.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Hawking Radiation
Member
Why are you posting Tim Dog tweets in this thread or in this forum?
He is a known troll and you're giving him a platform to continue his trolling and spreading of FUD.
Seriously don't know why Mods allow trolls posts in here.
Mod of War
:Not to discourage discussion here but surely having people posting tweets from troll accounts like Tim Dog serves nothing other than to provide Tim Dog with a platform to spread misinformation and devalues the quality of the thread and forum.
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sircaw
Banned
I thought i detected an angle with you.
You obliviously have not been readying this entire thread of or seen the numerous examples of fud.
Our conversation is now done.
In future, try and be Genuine.
you may reply, there will be no follow up.
AveragePhoenix
Member
Is this serious? An "angle"?
You do you, buddy.
BlueXImpulse
Banned
No need to ever post TimDog or Blue Ngohoro or whatever. You're simply getting sucked into their bullshit.
hwraytracer
Neo Member
RDNA1 architecture document states an optional feature called "rapid packed math (RPM)", you can choose to add this to your implementation or not.
chances are this same optional feature carried across to RDNA2, probably with more refined logic.
XSX chose to have this optional feature in their GPU implementation
PS5, there is no word yet if they decided to have this (thou sounding like not)
chances are this same optional feature carried across to RDNA2, probably with more refined logic.
XSX chose to have this optional feature in their GPU implementation
PS5, there is no word yet if they decided to have this (thou sounding like not)
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BlueXImpulse
Banned
That's a Vega feature and it was on PS4.
Mr Moose
Member
PS4 Pro has it, so it should be there in the PS5 too since it has BC, right?
AveragePhoenix
Member
For those who don't know, RPM allows developers to perform certain calculations faster, to possibly complete frames at a faster rate, and increase the frame rate and responsiveness in videogames.
hwraytracer
Neo Member
so what if PS4 has it ? all that matters is its an optional feature in RDNA1 and you choose to have it or not .. (not included by default) ...
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BlueXImpulse
Banned
What is the argument you are trying to make? I'm lost
hwraytracer
Neo Member
the PS5 GPU architect's tweet that people have posted here stating PS5 doesn't have ML ... Its directly related to RPM .. on/off is a decision sony engineers make with various components of RDNA
Dave_at_Home
Member
PS2 had the Emotion Engine: Fact
Has anything else since had an Emotion Engine?
No?
Fuck off.
Nintendo Switch 2 is Nvidia RDNA 3
Has anything else since had an Emotion Engine?
No?
Fuck off.
Nintendo Switch 2 is Nvidia RDNA 3
Daniel_Mallorca1985
Member
Confirmed by AMD,Cerny ,Devs and some still dont believe it
GRIEVEZ
Member
It kinda helps if you directly quote someone...
Mr Moose
Member
What PS5 GPU architect?
hwraytracer
Neo Member
Internet wayback machine shows this post was real and deleted.
Rosario Leonardi 🇬🇧🇪🇺🇮🇹 #PS5 on Twitter
“@willydearborn I can tell you only public available infos. The GPU is Navi-based, so there isn't any ML stuff on it. There is an extra CS only CU but it's reserved for the tempest engine (3d audio).”web.archive.org
I was referring to this quote in the thread, and tried to give context on the ML feature in RDNA1 called rapid packed math that is optional and needs to be added by request ..
Mr Moose
Member
I don't think that's a GPU architect.
hwraytracer
Neo Member
ahh yea right i missread his bio .. just a "Principal Graphics Engineer at Sony Interactive Entertainment Europe " BUT still you would think he knows the architecture that he is targeting as an graphics architect
eastwood333
Banned
I honestly want both MS/PS to succeed. I'm going to be getting both. Both companies are forcing each other to improve in there weak areas. Sony forcing MS to improve 1st party and MS forcing Sony to improve BC. We all should be rooting for them to duke it out, as we benefit in the end.
The games(multiplat) are going to look very similar on both platforms. The power differences just aren't large enough for significant, tangible difference really.
The games(multiplat) are going to look very similar on both platforms. The power differences just aren't large enough for significant, tangible difference really.
eastwood333
Banned
Seems like its just a matter of interpretation.
PS4 PRO uses RPM FP16, ML from what I recall uses FP8 and FP4?
RPM first appeared in the PS4 PRO then arrived later in AMD vega GPU lineup.
PS5 will literally have to use RPM for back compatible reasons if games made use of it.
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Neo Blaster
Member
They already labeled it accordingly, 'custom RDNA2'.
yewles1
Member
ML uses INT8 and INT4 as described by MS and Nvidia.
jose4gg
Member
Aceofspades
Banned
From Sony's presentation four months ago. What are people here babbling about?
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