Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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geordiemp said:
Everything. Curious to know what makes you think the opposite ?

What have you seen on XSX that suggests otherwise. Even latest Gears had to use SSR and VRS to get there, Yakuza, Sekeiro and others I have seen enough. But its not long now.
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I'm in the same boat as you are. Outside of Game Pass, I haven't seen anything to suggest the Series X to be a knockout. I don't hate the console or anything and I do look forward to something taking full advantage. Now as it relates to multi-platform games, they only thing that makes me think Series X will have a slight advantage is the simple fact it has more shaders. It's also possible due to everything Sony has done with the PS5 (and some stuff we still don't know about) that despite the compute unit difference, PS5 could be just as effective, if not always, nipping at Series X heels.

Honestly just a guess from me at this point. You would figure Sony knew full well that Xbox would put as wide of a GPU as possible in their console. Looking at PS5 clocks, possible infinite cache(?), SSD and I/O, maybe it simply has higher efficiency on average versus Series X? I dunno.
 
Njocky said:
The XSX will be the best place to play all the next gen multiplatform games from day 1, not just 2 years from now. As for the first party exclusives, that's no longer an issue for Xbox. Keep up with the news. I suspect that's why all of a sudden, only the first 2 years of the generation matter to many people on this forum.
This is the first generation that won't be decided by which console had the most or best exclusives although the answer is likely to be Xbox.
The best strategy will win.
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The best place to play all multiplats after PC and from what we have seen the same also after PS5.

But it can be between the 2nd and 3rd best place to play multiplats.:messenger_grinning_sweat::messenger_grinning_sweat::messenger_grinning_sweat::messenger_grinning_sweat::messenger_grinning_sweat:

if you want to have that security buy an RTX 3090
 
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Riky said:
That's all 18% can realistically give you, plus a CPU advantage and a memory bandwidth advantage. If the PS4 was 40% more powerful than X1 and it translates to 900p v 1080p it's unrealistic to expect more. Unless Smartshift is a bigger hit than Sony are letting on.
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I think the advantage is in Ps favour, but we will see the results and you can ask where the TF and bandwidth perceived advantage went if you like.

We start learning on 28th and after when RDNA2 NDA is up. .
 
Riky said:
I suspect it's the PS5 CPU that will downclock when smartshift kicks in and that could become quite obvious in taxing games.
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lol at this downclock talk again.

the fact is that smartshift improves gaming performance with a limited power budget such as laptops. XSX also has a limited power budget but no smartshift. do you know what will happen to those taxing games on XSX :lollipop_beaming_smiling: do you know what symptoms an insufficiently powered GPU will exhibit?
 
Njocky said:
If I buy a multiplat game on the XSX and it performs less well than the ps5 version, then the developer is at fault. I can walk into any game store with that guarantee in mind. That's why it's the best place to play multiplat games unless haptics is your thing.
And that's coming from someone who's ordered both
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No that's not the developer's fault, you can blame that on your ignorance for thinking a TFLOPs number is the be-all and end-all when it comes to console performance.
 
Dave_at_Home said:
I'm in the same boat as you are. Outside of Game Pass, I haven't seen anything to suggest the Series X to be a knockout. I don't hate the console or anything and I do look forward to something taking full advantage. Now as it relates to multi-platform games, they only thing that makes me think Series X will have a slight advantage is the simple fact it has more shaders. It's also possible due to everything Sony has done with the PS5 (and some stuff we still don't know about) that despite the compute unit difference, PS5 could be just as effective, if not always, nipping at Series X heels.

Honestly just a guess from me at this point. You would figure Sony knew full well that Xbox would put as wide of a GPU as possible in their console. Looking at PS5 clocks, possible infinite cache(?), SSD and I/O, maybe it simply has higher efficiency on average versus Series X? I dunno.
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If Ps5 has a shared L1 cache, its a 1.22 multiplier on GPU for starters and bandwidth..... Maybe XSX also has it secretly and they put up wrong block diagrams to keep with NDA ?

Apis, fast caches, its all up in the air. Nothing is defined yet other than how games run, as we know NOTHING about the specs really,.
 
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smallpotatosan said:
lol at this downclock talk again.

the fact is that smartshift improves gaming performance with a limited power budget such as laptops. XSX also has a limited power budget but no smartshift. do you know what will happen to those taxing games on XSX :lollipop_beaming_smiling: do you know what symptoms an insufficiently powered GPU will exhibit?
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explain pls
 
sircaw said:
He certainly has gone down the hill, he was meant to get better with time, not go the other way around
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He has a rubbish centre back partner in Lindelof,
Got arrested in Greece,
Is under heavy media pressure because of the club he's playing for,
Dropped in form massively since the Greece incident.

These football players are human. There's no doubt the Greece incident affected him mentally and he's been in a downward spiral ever since. Somewhat redeemed himself with that performance against PSG. There's a good player there and he will return to good form soon. The club has to work behind the scenes to keep the player in the right state of mind. This is something Sir Alex Ferguson used to do so well. Protect his players even in their darkest days.
 
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Riky said:
That's all 18% can realistically give you, plus a CPU advantage and a memory bandwidth advantage. If the PS4 was 40% more powerful than X1 and it translates to 900p v 1080p it's unrealistic to expect more. Unless Smartshift is a bigger hit than Sony are letting on.
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When did Smartshift become a negative? Or is this desperate hopes?
0jmXV58.jpg
 
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Yoboman said:
Playstation getting global stars to show off the PS5

Xbox gets Richard Leadbutter

And people were complaining about Sonys marketing?
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One of my buddies is getting a PS5 because of all of the Champion's League advertisements. He's a hardcore Nintendo fan so I was very surprised.

I guess it paid off for Sony.
 
geordiemp said:
If Ps5 has a shared L1 cache, its a 1.22 multiplier on GPU for starters and bandwidth..... Maybe XSX also has it secretly and they put up wrong block diagrams to keep with NDA ?

Apis, fast caches, its all up in the air. Nothing is defined yet other than how games run, as we know NOTHING about the specs really,.
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Sony has been clearly kissing AMD and not telling. Even after the 28th, Sony may still be under NDA or they simply won't give a shit and continue to say nothing. Frustrating. It would be pretty cool to get a Cerny deep dive. As for the possible infinite cache, what are the odds Sony co-developed that with AMD and, for those reasons, you won't find it on Series X?
 
mansoor1980 said:
explain pls
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Here is the data from the apple mac BETA OS froma couple of weeks ago, this is real data.

fRrcniA.png


Navi 22 is 40 CU RDNA2, closest die to ps5. Do you think 2.23 Ghz is an issue ?

Zen2 runs at 5 Ghz, do you think 3.5 Ghz is an issue ?

People have moved on from that months ago. Sony wants ps5 to be quiet and cool.
 
Hawking Radiation said:
He has a rubbish centre back partner in Lindelof,
Got arrested in Greece,
Is under heavy media pressure because of the club he's playing for,
Dropped in form massively since the Greece incident.

These football players are human. There's no doubt the Greece incident affected him mentally and he's been in a downward spiral ever since. Somewhat redeemed himself with that performance against PSG. There's a good player there and he will return to good form soon. The club has to work behind the scenes to keep the player in the right state of mind. This is something Sir Alex Ferguson used to do so well. Protect his players even in their darkest days.
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yep for sure, its just the cost of him vs what i have been seeing of him lately. it does not look good,

I understand it was just one game but oh boy did i enjoy Axel Tuanzebes performance the other night. it was a joy to behold.
 
Riky said:
It's obvious when 10.28 Tflops is the peak, it can only go down from there, it isn't adding anything to that figure.
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Ah my young padowan, let me explain.


GPU use 40 % of the CU if they are lucky, so you use 35-45 % of the CU per clock if its good, rest of the time its waiting for data, clicking its heels feeling hungry but hot....

Numbers artibiary, or are they ?

Increase instructions per clock by 22 %, then you have 22 % more performance in games.

Increase delivery of data to CU by 10 %, you have 10 % more performance in games.

You are quite correct if this was a mining competition, but games have huge delays, ray tacing can half or even quarter the power of a game, what if you could do it 2 x better ? How does that work ?
 
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geordiemp said:
Ah my young padowan, let me explain.


GPU use 40 % of the CU if they are lucky, so you use 35-45 % of the CU per clock if its good, rest of the time its waiting for data, clicking its heels feeling hungry but hot....

Increase instructions per clock by 22 %, then you have 22 % more performance in games.

Increase delivery of data to CU by 10 %, you have 10 % more performance in games.

You are quite correct if this was a mining competition, but games ahve huge delays, ray tacing can half or even quarter the power of a game, what if you could do it 2 x better ? How does that work ?
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Do you think smartshift would have been a benefit for the new xbox?

If so, any idea why they would not use it, does it take up to much silicon?

I know i know stupid questions from a dumb fish sigh.
 
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kyliethicc said:
Its some sort of proprietary pin connector. Sony says its a "click-in design" and calls them "Charging Terminals" on their spec sheet.

I just appreciate its simple looking Sony made solution for this daily thing, ready on day 1. And for only $30, its well worth it to me for something I'll use for ~ 7 years. Plus it matches the console and controller design too, bonus.

rHhDvs0.jpg


FRA4hb3.jpg
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I had this one for PS4. I always thought it was official. I'm surprised more people don't use.
4399023_R_Z001A

images
 
Hawking Radiation said:
He has a rubbish centre back partner in Lindelof,
Got arrested in Greece,
Is under heavy media pressure because of the club he's playing for,
Dropped in form massively since the Greece incident.

These football players are human. There's no doubt the Greece incident affected him mentally and he's been in a downward spiral ever since. Somewhat redeemed himself with that performance against PSG. There's a good player there and he will return to good form soon. The club has to work behind the scenes to keep the player in the right state of mind. This is something Sir Alex Ferguson used to do so well. Protect his players even in their darkest days.
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When I watched him recently pull Luke Shaw down to the ground, preventing his own teamate from clearing the ball away from their own goal, all after Maguire himself headed the ball backwards like an idiot to no one....

I just sat and stared at the tv. No words can explain how that man cost that much. He's becoming Phil Jones 2.0.

 
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Tripolygon said:
The goal is to tone map from say Rec. 709 to ST2084 at 1000 nits without blowing out highlights and retaining detail in darker regions. Thats all they are doing but with different algorithm. Its like when Xbox One launched and the upscaler applied a higher contrast to the image that crushed the black level giving a high saturated contrasted look. PS4 on the other hand produces a flatter image that preserves details in the darker region but if you want a more saturated contrast look you can simply turn up the contrast level in your TV. Auto HDR is pretty cool and does not need defending. But your TV if you have one that has that feature can do the same thing.
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The goal is the same thing, but the result isn't.
 
kyliethicc said:
When I watched him recently pull Luke Shaw down to the ground, preventing his own teamate from clearing the ball away from their own goal, all after Maguire himself headed the ball backwards like an idiot to no one....

I just sat and stared at the tv. No words can explain how that man cost that much. He's becoming Phil Jones 2.0.



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why, why show stuff like that, i watched that live, and now you bring this shit up.

Was the shock and burden not enough the first time round, I hate you.
 
geordiemp said:
Ah my young padowan, let me explain.


GPU use 40 % of the CU if they are lucky, so you use 35-45 % of the CU per clock if its good, rest of the time its waiting for data, clicking its heels feeling hungry but hot....

Numbers artibiary, or are they ?

Increase instructions per clock by 22 %, then you have 22 % more performance in games.

Increase delivery of data to CU by 10 %, you have 10 % more performance in games.

You are quite correct if this was a mining competition, but games have huge delays, ray tacing can half or even quarter the power of a game, what if you could do it 2 x better ? How does that work ?
Click to expand...

You have played a well-programmed game and can reach 60% -70% occupancy on open or multiplatform hardware. But reaching those limits is hard work.

https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/t...lysis-method-for-optimizing-any-gpu-workload/

I hope that with infinity cache and the IO complex PS5 can achieve at least 15% more from the start.

Being able with hard work to reach 85% or 90%. I think it would be crazy to get to 90%.

I think the only development studio in the world that can do it is Nauty Dog.
 
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sircaw said:
Do you think smartshift would have been a benefit for the new xbox?

If so, any idea why they would not use it, does it take up to much silicon?

I know i know stupid questions from a dumb fish sigh.
Click to expand...

I really think the architectures are so different they may as well be from different suppliers never mind RDNA2 and smart shift, XSX and ps5 are polar opposites.

XSX I still cant get my head around, the big 14 CU per shader array to keep 4 shader arrays and slowish clock I think is well optimised for its intended primary purpose, as a server blade runing 4xb1s games in parralel and its been optimised as such. I believe

Hence if your running 4 games, why would you want to slow the GPU at frame start when CPU is busy and give GPU a coffee break for a few ms, there are 4 games running you cant do that.

MS choices I do believe will have been chosen around its dual purpose, but I am speculating and will get called FUD for it, so lets leave it until all specs are revealed and we know whats in XSX and ps5, and then we can talk.
 
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geordiemp said:
I really think the architectures are so different they may as well be from different suppliers never mind RDAN2 and smart shift, XSX and ps5 are polar opposites.

XSX I still cant get my head ariound, the big 14 CU per shader array to keep 4 shader arrays and slowish clock I think is well optimised for its intended primary purpose, as a server blade runing 4xb1s games in parralel and its been optimised as such. I believe

Hence if your running 4 games, why would you want to slow the GPU at frame start when CPU is busy and give GPU a coffee break for a few ms, there are 4 games running you cant do that.

MS choices I do believe will have been chosen around its dual purpose, but I am speculating and will get called FUD for it, so lets leave it until all specs are revealed and we know whats in XSX and ps5, and then we can talk.
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i reckon you get all hot under the collar when you get technical questions like that, and start rubbing yourself against your keyboard.
 
sircaw said:
Do you think smartshift would have been a benefit for the new xbox?

If so, any idea why they would not use it, does it take up to much silicon?

I know i know stupid questions from a dumb fish sigh.
Click to expand...

You have to learn to separate maximum frequency from maximum consumption or maximum power.

Both consoles are 310-350W so no matter how much GPU you have, you cannot exceed that TDP. Having a tool that flexes the TDP between GPU and CPU could make you exceed the design TDP on the GPU and execute code that in an environment without Smartsift would be impossible.

I think SmartShift makes possible functions that are not possible in the same Clock by giving up a bit of CPU power and that can help to obtain more FPS since it will advance it instead of delaying it until the next wave clock.
 
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Nowcry said:
You have to learn to separate maximum frequency from maximum consumption or maximum power.

Both consoles are 310-350W so no matter how much GPU you have, you cannot exceed that TDP. Having a tool that flexes the TDP between GPU and CPU could make you exceed the design TDP on the GPU and execute code that in an environment without Smartsift would be impossible.

I think SmartShift makes possible functions that are not possible in the same Clock by giving up a bit of CPU power and that can help to obtain more FPS since it will advance it instead of delaying it until the next wave.
Click to expand...

Sometimes i feel really smart when i am on this forum, the rest of the time, really dumb. "lollipop_disappointed:
 
Nowcry said:
You have played a well-programmed game and can reach 60% -70% occupancy on open or multiplatform hardware. But reaching those limits is hard work.

https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/t...lysis-method-for-optimizing-any-gpu-workload/

I hope that with infinity cache and the IO complex PS5 can achieve at least 15% more from the start.

Being able with hard work to reach 85% or 90%. I think it would be crazy to get to 90%.

I think the only development studio in the world that can do it is Nauty Dog.
Click to expand...

I think thats Nvidia optimisation point of view, in GPU work load ready to go from L2, if you do frame workload Cerny said its lucky to be 40 % CU utilisation.

I can never find that quote where he said it. Damn.

But anyway, if your api and drivers are bad and have slower distibution at 35 %, a better driver, api and whatever can be better.

That goes both ways, maybe XSX will be 40 % better than ps5 - place you bets...roll up roll up.

I still think they will be sameish lol.
 
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Sinthor said:
Absolutely correct. Hong Kong IS China and has been since the British handed over control. That's part of what all the unrest there is about since China had agreed to be largely hands off of Hong Kong and the people there but has been gradually inserting itself more and more and impacting the citizens there more and more. So Hong Kong is definitely considered "China."
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One of my best mates is from Kowloon. You ain't fucking wrong.
 
geordiemp said:
I think thats Nvidia optimisation point of view, in GPU work load ready to go from L2, if you do frame workload Cerny said its lucky to be 40 % CU utilisation.

I can never find that quote where he said it. Damn.

But anyway, if your api and drivers are bad and have slower distibution at 35 %, a better driver, api and whatever can be better.

That goes both ways, maybe XSX will be 40 % better than ps5 - place you bets...roll up roll up.

I still think they will be sameish lol.
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Me too and I totally agree but 40% is too catastrophic.
 
X-Fighter said:
The goal is the same thing, but the result isn't.
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Have you compared the end result? The end result is a tone mapped SDR image to HDR image. It will not look like a natively produced HDR content but it is sufficient in producing the same effect. Sony image processing is the best in the world for TVs. Your analogy still not make any sense since that would be like you saying the NES is like the Series X since they both play games.
 
sircaw said:


Get up to 14% EXTRA Performance with SmartShift Enabled¹
Gamers get a graphics performance boost when it matters, while Content Creators can get that extra horsepower needed to finish their tasks quickly.

from AMD's website, it must count for something, granted its in their laptops but surely its the same thing.
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Think of it as saving to have to put in 14 % more power when its needed and steeling it from CPU when GPU is busy and CPU is having a nap. Ps5 is not a laptop so they are not saving battery, but they are serious about it being cool so want to keep the watts stable.
 
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Nowcry said:
Me too and I totally agree but 40% is too catastrophic.
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Well if you take the 70 % starting from when correct data is in cache to when its processed and then work that out over a frame, its going to be significantly less.... almost half as their is CPU time, audio access, GPU and every CU is never busy all frame.

Different measurements.

I just cant find Cerny quote where he was talking CU efficiency. was it in road to Ps5 and in a place nobody seems to replay ? I swear he said Sony had analysed CU efficency at 40 % in some games....but thats over the frame including CPU workload.

Also This is latest AMD paper, they can get 50 % more IPC from GPU for some work loads, that 70 % is for optimim data ready to run just in the GPU. The max they said was IPC 82 % improvement, so its no where near 70 % average as a whole for sure as you would not be able to increase it by that much just by optimising caches even potentially.

Of course you cannot compare architectures.

rlX8fZv.png
 
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