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[Kazekage1981]

Yea, I think you guys really need to consider that the PC is the frontrunner in this next-gen race. It's going to be way more powerful and exclusives are going to be fewer and fewer. The weather is moving in the direction of game selling instead of hardware selling.

I think you also have to consider the form factor and connectivity to UHDTV and Surround sound. If you can get PC to be a console like box set up with intel/amd paired with nvidia/radeon, hdmi 2.1, wireless keyboard, controller, blue tooth 5.1, wifi6 and have a sexy aesthetic casing with lights with 4k @ 60-100 Hz and get rid of all the windows legacy garbage with a sleek windows core UI fluent design interface, it is certainly achievable. Instead when buying a PC, its always either: desktop tower, or laptop mobile.. The desktop tower is always connected to a monitor in some sort of office room.

A console like looking windows desktop PC targeting the living room should be the ultimate goal of OEMS if they truly want consoles to die.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Maybe, but that's not what I'm hearing. Devs are tired of managing 3 platforms every single generation. It would be much easier to have 1 platform and make the best vision of the director on said platform. The consoles will never catch up to the hardware innovations and so all the money is pouring into the development of games for all platforms (or at least on PC). PC is the agnostic hardware here -- that's why devs develop on it first and foremost. You want a true RDNA 2.0? Buy an AMD. You want the best Nvidia has to offer? Buy the RTX. You want a lighting fast SSD setup? Buy NvMe. You love AMD CPUs? Buy the Ryzen. etc.. etc..

It's going to be even worse if the Lockhart is released, MS should make one console

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Going forward it will be much much less than 3yrs.. use Death Stranding as the example here.

MLB too. Pretty sure multiplat versions will be day one or pretty close to it. No point in a multiplat version coming out in September.

 

[BattleScar]

Maybe, but that's not what I'm hearing. Devs are tired of managing 3 platforms every single generation. It would be much easier to have 1 platform and make the best vision of the director on said platform. The consoles will never catch up to the hardware innovations and so all the money is pouring into the development of games for all platforms (or at least on PC). PC is the agnostic hardware here -- that's why devs develop on it first and foremost.

I don't understand that. The vast majority of PC gamers will have hardware in the low-midrange. Heck the most popular graphics card on Steam is Intel integrated graphics. Yes, the PC will always be the most powerful at the high end, but the number of people who can afford to be at the cutting edge of PC hardware is absolutely tiny.
Heck, I have an RX480 4GB and a 6600K, and I don't plan on completely upgrading my hardware until AMD releases AM5 and Zen 4 (or whenever Intel can sort out their Fab situation can deliver a competitive desktop part in the midrange).

Besides, you've said it yourself. Consoles are just prepackaged PC's now. The hardware is fundamentally the same. Microsoft will use DirectX, and Sony will probably use some variant of Vulkan that's customised for their purposes. At the end of the day, at launch the next gen consoles will effectively be upper-mid range PCs. Building to those specs will mean that they can reach the widest possible audience.
If they develop games using Ryzen 9 4950s and Titan Amperes, or whatever the pinnacle of PC gaming hardware moves to every 18 months, then they're making games that 98% of the entire PC gaming audience will struggle to run.

I could be wrong of course. You have the experience, but that's honestly how I see it.

Nah. Next-gen is whatever hardware can show a leap in standard hardware. Next-gen visuals was here for over a year or more on the PC. When the PS5/XSX come out along with Ampere, it will be next-next-gen from the developers point of view, because they'll be making their games based on the best GPU on a PC and porting down to consoles --- again.

Porting down to consoles in the same way they'll be porting down to PC gamers who have low-end hardware. Surely its as simple as changing the settings to match the console hardware. Console's are just PC's now. There's no PowerPC cores, no Cell, no custom microarchitectures. Its all x86. How are consoles any different to your average mid-range PC?

 

[LED Guy?]

Nah. Next-gen is whatever hardware can show a leap in standard hardware. Next-gen visuals was here for over a year or more on the PC. When the PS5/XSX come out along with Ampere, it will be next-next-gen from the developers point of view, because they'll be making their games based on the best GPU on a PC and porting down to consoles --- again.

Nope, all these games that have released so far are games that were built with consoles in mind but PC got them at higher resolution, almost the same graphics, Same AI, same worlds, same everything.

Next-gen gaming won't start until Microsoft/Sony say so.

 

[Kazekage1981]

the rumored windows core-santorini with uwp & fluent design might bring my idea to vision. All this legacy baggage *I hope* will come off and make it fast, fluid responsive, intuitive. This along with advancements to direct x 12 and the new direct x raytracing is salivating.

 

[VFXVeteran]

A few things:

I don't understand that. The vast majority of PC gamers will have hardware in the low-midrange. Heck the most popular graphics card on Steam is Intel integrated graphics. Yes, the PC will always be the most powerful at the high end, but the number of people who can afford to be at the cutting edge of PC hardware is absolutely tiny.
Heck, I have an RX480 4GB and a 6600K, and I don't plan on completely upgrading my hardware until AMD releases AM5 and Zen 4 (or whenever Intel can sort out their Fab situation can deliver a competitive desktop part in the midrange).

It doesn't matter what consumers have. It matters what the developers have. They will have the latest and greatest hardware to develop on. It's always been that way actually. Porting down or introducing settings that can scale with the hardware is nothing new. This same thing will happen. There is just no more "secret sauce" but bruteforce power.

Porting down to consoles in the same way they'll be porting down to PC gamers who have low-end hardware. Surely its as simple as changing the settings to match the console hardware. Console's are just PC's now. There's no PowerPC cores, no Cell, no custom microarchitectures. Its all x86.

Yes, but the high fidelity assets won't run on a console but CAN run on a well-equipped PC. They target their graphics engines to scale very well on various hardware just like a 3rd party company would do.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Nope, all these games that have released so far are games that were built with consoles in mind but PC got them at higher resolution, almost the same graphics, Same AI, same worlds, same everything.

That's just not true. I'm not sure where you get that info.

You don't take a low res 1024x1024 texture map and then re-texture that same map for 4k because you are porting up. It's costly and won't give you the exact same results. The graphics engines in companies like ND or DICE have the same parameters for scaling up graphics. You just don't see it on a console but you do on a PC. All the 1st party games have PC versions already. It's the matter of whether corporate will approve the release of said version. And as you can see, things are changing..

 

[BattleScar]

A few things:

It doesn't matter what consumers have. It matters what the developers have. They will have the latest and greatest hardware to develop on. It's always been that way actually. Porting down or introducing settings that can scale with the hardware is nothing new. This same thing will happen. There is just no more "secret sauce" but bruteforce power.

Yes, but the high fidelity assets won't run on a console but CAN run on a well-equipped PC. They target their graphics engines to scale very well on various hardware just like a 3rd party company would do.

Fair enough. They'll just develop on PC. Which brings me back to my point, that the consoles are just a pre-built PC with custom software that lets a clueless user play FIFA out of the box. As long as there is a need for local hardware that (and I hate to say this) just works, consoles as a concept won't entirely disappear. Yeah maybe when streaming is an actual thing that people across the world can reliably use, they may finally disappear. But I don't see that happening for a while.

Even in that latter case, consoles might just become high-end luxury pre-builds for a niche.

Ultimately though, gaming is about the software. As long as the likes of Sony and Microsoft (and Nintendo...???) produce games that people want to spend their money on, they'll be fine. They'll take your money whichever way it comes. Via PC, their consoles or their streaming service.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Fair enough. They'll just develop on PC. Which brings me back to my point, that the consoles are just a pre-built PC with custom software that lets a clueless user play FIFA out of the box. As long as there is a need for local hardware that (and I hate to say this) just works, consoles as a concept won't entirely disappear. Yeah maybe when streaming is an actual thing that people across the world can reliably use, they may finally disappear. But I don't see that happening for a while.

Even in that latter case, consoles might just become high-end luxury pre-builds for a niche.

Who knows? I only know what I'm being told. Managing 3 platforms while costs of production (reaching movie status) goes up is eating away at the developers' sales margins. I wouldn't be surprised if there is no console after this generation (IMO of course).

 

[Kazekage1981]

vfxveteran is there any PC windows desktop product out there that looks like a console that you can connect to your 4k UHD via HDMI 2.1, and surround sound with 4k graphics *with* raytracing between 60-90 hz with wifi6, fast SSD NVme drive, 4k ultra-blu ray disk player between $399-$499 ?

 

[Playboi Carti]

Nah. Next-gen is whatever hardware can show a leap in standard hardware. Next-gen visuals was here for over a year or more on the PC. When the PS5/XSX come out along with Ampere, it will be next-next-gen from the developers point of view, because they'll be making their games based on the best GPU on a PC and porting down to consoles --- again.

Not on multiplats tho. Next-gen visuals on multiplatform games will only arrive when they stop developing for current-gen consoles. That's why Hellblade II looks better than any multiplatform PC game to date.

 

[splattered]

Yup, after this generation sony and ms will team up and create a single console together called the … play-box

 

[VFXVeteran]

vfxveteran is there any PC windows desktop product out there that looks like a console that you can connect to your 4k UHD via HDMI 2.1, and surround sound with 4k graphics *with* raytracing between 60-90 hz with wifi6, fast SSD NVme drive, 4k ultra-blu ray disk player between $399-$499 ?

That's a very broad stroke question. I can't answer that because I don't know at which capacity the RT will function. At $500, I don't see it doing much or very useful with only 1080Ti bandwidth.

 

[Rightisright]

They don't need to. They just already know.

Well that settles that then.

 

[Rightisright]

Why would I be hurt?

Just pointing it out. I'm sure others know it too.

I just love how your waiting for other members of the SDF to give your post that fire like.

 

[SlimySnake]

Im calling it. Sony will fail hard this generation. They act very missguided and some suit/s with power is making all the wrong decisions. Its like some one has been possessed with ken kutaragi soul...
Well I guess Its good that I have low expectations going forward...

it happens to every console gen leader. Sony with the PS3. MS with Xbox One. Nintendo with the Wii U. They all bounce back.

PS6 will be amazing.

 

[CuriousToe]

Who knows? I only know what I'm being told. Managing 3 platforms while costs of production (reaching movie status) goes up is eating away at the developers' sales margins. I wouldn't be surprised if there is no console after this generation (IMO of course).

Consoles will be a thing for a few more generations for one reason - convenience. It's easier to spend X amount, place the device under your television, and play the latest games on it for 5+ years.

Streaming will (eventually) got to a point where it's easier to just start the Xbox/Playstation/Nintendo app on your connected TV and pick up a controller. Obviously we're moving in that direction but it has a while to go.

For what it's worth, I also think the winds are moving in the direction of PC. However I think it's going to be a much slower transition than what you're suggesting.

 

[LED Guy?]

That's just not true. I'm not sure where you get that info.

You don't take a low res 1024x1024 texture map and then re-texture that same map for 4k because you are porting up. It's costly and won't give you the exact same results. The graphics engines in companies like ND or DICE have the same parameters for scaling up graphics. You just don't see it on a console but you do on a PC. All the 1st party games have PC versions already. It's the matter of whether corporate will approve the release of said version. And as you can see, things are changing..

Yeah and that's why I'm saying Next-gen gaming won't start until PS5 and Xbox Series X release, all games that we see today are built around console power with PC taking those games and upping the graphics a very little bit. That's all.

But in the end, believe what you want but doesn't negate facts.

 

[Kazekage1981]

That's a very broad stroke question. I can't answer that because I don't know at which capacity the RT will function. At $500, I don't see it doing much or very useful with only 1080Ti bandwidth.

If sony and Microsoft can achieve this with $400-$500 price point isn't it,..well kind of amazing? Well its also thanks to AMD with ryzen and rdna architecture along with TSMC's 7nm node, chiplet design, AMD infinity fabric etc.

I mean it is *certainly* a possiblity for OEMS to disrupt both Sony and Microsoft to create a console like looking desktop PC that does the same exact thing but better.

Edit: OEMS really have to start going after peoples living rooms where the desktop pc is one stop all. NOT their offices

 

[TGO]

The Russian is Anton Logvinov. He correctly called Death Stranding coming to PC before it was announced, Cyberpunk 2077 being delayed, and Horizon Zero Dawn coming to PC (He even said it would be announced around early year, around February). I couldn't find anything he said about BOTW coming to PC though, but I haven't had enough time to translate all of his videos yet. It seems like he has at least some insider feeding him info. The only prediction that he has made for the next gen systems is this one though: https://bgr.com/2019/12/23/xbox-series-x-might-have-a-huge-advantage-over-the-ps5-at-launch/
From that article: "Logvinov claims the PS5 will not have a single major exclusive at launch, offering buyers enhanced versions of popular PS4 exclusives instead. The Xbox, meanwhile, will get anywhere between 12 to 16 exclusives right on day one, although not all of them will be major releases.

If people believe this, Wow

 

[StreetsofBeige]

VFX,

I've probably missed it among the zillion pages in this thread, but what's your rumoured TF count for PS5 and SeX?

 

[VFXVeteran]

Yeah and that's why I'm saying Next-gen gaming won't start until PS5 and Xbox Series X release, all games that we see today are built around console power with PC taking those games and upping the graphics a very little bit. That's all.

But in the end, believe what you want but doesn't negate facts.

And I'm saying that the 1st party games this current gen were NOT built around console power in the sense that the studio did NOT implement features in the graphics pipeline that couldn't possibly run on a console. Take Detroit, for example. That game on the PC simply can NOT run on any console at true 4k WITH 4k higher res texture maps, more accurate ambient occlusion, higher texture filtering etc.. it was not added AFTER the fact. It was added DURING development and ported DOWN to consoles. You will see other exclusives with these same dramatic changes when released on the PC. Just wait for it.

 

[Tiago07]

Man we've decreased and increased PS5's TFlops every time.
We had go to 13 TF or little above / low by Klee and Osiris
We had go 9.2 TF and little high by Github and possible VFX too

I prefer to belive in both closely / very closely

Everything SeX have (8k, 120fps and more) PS5 will have too (Sony has confirmed these too)
So they're closely

 

[VFXVeteran]

VFX,

I've probably missed it among the zillion pages in this thread, but what's your rumoured TF count for PS5 and SeX?

I have no info on the XSX. PS5 was told "between 1080 and 1080Ti performance". No numbers were given as most devs don't know the specs. Real world performance though is what I was after. That performance simply isn't enough for any real RTX enhancements IMO.

 

[Insane Metal]

I have no info on the XSX. PS5 was told "between 1080 and 1080Ti performance". No numbers were given as most devs don't know the specs. Real world performance though is what I was after. That performance simply isn't enough for any real RTX enhancements IMO.

That's extremely disappointing if true.

 

[Investor9872]

I can't see Sony releasing the PS5 this holiday season without a single, major exclusive. It goes against their recent narrative for the PS5's launch.

 

[01011001]

If people believe this, Wow

i have no issue believing this. new games don't fall out of the sky. and Sony already release 2 major AAA games on PS4 this year.
my bet is the biggest PS5 launch title will be Bluepoint's remake

 

[Kazekage1981]

The Xlauncher could potentially be the surface series for OEMS to help video gamers transition into the PC master race. The surface series is a template for OEMS to try to emulate. My Samsung windows ARM based galaxy book 2 looks almost exactly like the surface series from Microsoft. So in addition to PS5, Xlauncher, you have the potential to have console looking desktops that target your living room.

 

[joe_zazen]

.

I can't see Sony releasing the PS5 this holiday season without a single, major exclusive. It goes against their recent narrative for the PS5's launch.

what narrative? We've had wired and ces and state of plays, am i missing something?

 

[ElCasual]

and with PS5 exclusive comming to PC too.

 

[TGO]

i have no issue believing this. new games don't fall out of the sky. and Sony already release 2 major AAA games on PS4 this year.
my bet is the biggest PS5 launch title will be Bluepoint's remake

Sony has already said PS5 will launch with PS5 only games
And MS has said there won't be any exclusives for the first two years.
Yet you believe PS5 will launch with PS4 Remasters and XSX will have 16 exclusives?
Come on

 

[LED Guy?]

And I'm saying that the 1st party games this current gen were NOT built around console power in the sense that the studio did NOT implement features in the graphics pipeline that couldn't possibly run on a console. Take Detroit, for example. That game on the PC simply can NOT run on any console at true 4k WITH 4k higher res texture maps, more accurate ambient occlusion, higher texture filtering etc.. it was not added AFTER the fact. It was added DURING development and ported DOWN to consoles. You will see other exclusives with these same dramatic changes when released on the PC. Just wait for it.

We do not know when, but Detroit Become Human I have the game on my gaming PC and on my PS4 Pro, the game is 1:1 identical, I couldn't even spot the differences between them.

 

[SlimySnake]

That performance simply isn't enough for any real RTX enhancements IMO.

i agree. this is precisely why i dont want a shitty 9 tflops console. rt absolutely murders performance in current gen games. i cant even imagine what it will do to games that look like hellblade 2.

 

[chemical boy]

You believe the person who just said that Horizon will appear on PC (it is not confirmed). But instead when this same person claims that PS5 and Xbox are above 2080 .... then you don't believe it. That is called hypocrisy, believing the data that interests you.

 

[CyberPanda]

Now this article makes sense.

news

news

www.gamasutra.com

 

[TeamGhobad]

ssd 7Gb/s !??

 

[Hawking Radiation]

There is a lot of reasons because it set precedents to for new Sony first-party games:

• Decreasing quality due being focused in multiplatform development.
• Less specific use of platform features (I don't know what features PS5 will have but the changes to use it going multiplatform is near 0).
• Less PS5 sales and so less user pool for multiplayer games.
• PC games mess up the consoles multiplayer.
• Less focus in PlayStation ecosystem.

I can go on.

It will just become like the bland and boring platform that everybody hates.

Maybe the way now is go Nintendo.

It is a huge mistake too... exclusives take Sony to the top and now they will just open again to failures.
I believe they will lose sales and userbase.

You can forget Sony games selling over 10 million being released on the small PS5 userbase and PC.

How so?

Gaming PC's are expensive to put together and not everyone can afford a decent setup. This is where PS5 makes sense depending on how its priced which i'm sure will be low enough to entice casual gamers.

 

[Kazekage1981]

chemical boy, I am being conservative and my expectations low. Thinking that both are above 2080Ti + performance at $400-$500 price point at this point in time is just too good to be true. WIth that being said, I hope Sony and Microsoft blow my ass out of the water, make me eat shit and crow for their megaton reveal and prove me wrong.

 

[longdi]

I have no info on the XSX. PS5 was told "between 1080 and 1080Ti performance". No numbers were given as most devs don't know the specs. Real world performance though is what I was after. That performance simply isn't enough for any real RTX enhancements IMO.

Sigh..next gen is over even before it starts

 

[Insane Metal]

ssd 7Gb/s !??

There an info going around that the XSX will use Phison controller on its SSDs and they go all the way up to 7GB/s. Doesn't mean it will be, though. At this point all we can do is wait unfortunately.

 

[joe_zazen]

Sony has already said PS5 will launch with PS5 only games
And MS has said there won't be any exclusives for the first two years.
Yet you believe PS5 will launch with PS4 Remasters and XSX will have 16 exclusives?
Come on

i believe ms has locked down 12-16 games for release exclusively on MS platforms, some major some minor, mostly because of osiris, and MS spending lavishly on xbox Over the last two years. Plus they have studios like playground and343 that have said they have launch games coming.

Wrt sony, i can see them not having any major exclusives aside from uhd ps4 games. why? Sony is cheap as fuck and aside from VR and 2 sports titles, they only make games that take 5+ years. Plus they havent said anything about releases beyond Ghost.

But I could totally be wrong, and I hope I am.

 

[Darklor01]

And I'm saying that the 1st party games this current gen were NOT built around console power in the sense that the studio did NOT implement features in the graphics pipeline that couldn't possibly run on a console. Take Detroit, for example. That game on the PC simply can NOT run on any console at true 4k WITH 4k higher res texture maps, more accurate ambient occlusion, higher texture filtering etc.. it was not added AFTER the fact. It was added DURING development and ported DOWN to consoles. You will see other exclusives with these same dramatic changes when released on the PC. Just wait for it.

I say this every single time new console gen comes up and every single time it's true. Anyone that expects their console to perform the way a high end PC does is delusional. You simply cannot buy a Ferrari on a mid-size commuter car budget. That's not a knock on consoles. That's a knock on anyone who fits into the description.

The consoles will both likely perform quite well for their prices. I'll love mine. I'll also find out what it is capable of when they show me.

 

[joe_zazen]

You believe the person who just said that Horizon will appear on PC (it is not confirmed). But instead when this same person claims that PS5 and Xbox are above 2080 .... then you don't believe it. That is called hypocrisy, believing the data that interests you.

lol, no. Blame goes to osiris for "ms is killing it"

 

[chemical boy]

i believe ms has locked down 12-16 games for release exclusively on MS platforms, some major some minor, mostly because of osiris, and MS spending lavishly on xbox Over the last two years. Plus they have studios like playground and343 that have said they have launch games coming.

Wrt sony, i can see them not having any major exclusives aside from uhd ps4 games. why? Sony is cheap as fuck and aside from VR and 2 sports titles, they only make games that take 5+ years. Plus they havent said anything about releases beyond Ghost.

But I could totally be wrong, and I hope I am.

From launch we may see Horizon 2 and GT7.

 

[LED Guy?]

You believe the person who just said that Horizon will appear on PC (it is not confirmed). But instead when this same person claims that PS5 and Xbox are above 2080 .... then you don't believe it. That is called hypocrisy, believing the data that interests you.

This was me who posted this tweet!

 

[Kazekage1981]

Even if Xlauncher and PS5 are 2080ti + performance you still have additional problems of: Nvidia 7nm ampere and soon to be released Intel Discrete graphics. What I am upset about is that AMD always has to play catch-up for it to be equal or slightly better by defaulting to shrinking node.

So for AMD to equal the performance of Nvidia Ampere 3080 series, they will have to go to 5nm am I rite?

 

[kretos]

If people believe this, Wow

I mean, everyone doubted him and in the end it looks like he is right and HZD is coming to PC, so i wouldn't be surprised by anything really, and it doesn't help with Sony being silent

 

[Fake]

You believe the person who just said that Horizon will appear on PC (it is not confirmed). But instead when this same person claims that PS5 and Xbox are above 2080 .... then you don't believe it. That is called hypocrisy, believing the data that interests you.

You made a good point. When he said both consoles are pretty close people deny as fuck, but now they need to believe in that info if they want Horizon Zero Dawn on PC.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Even if Xlauncher and PS5 are 2080ti + performance you still have additional problems of: Nvidia 7nm ampere and soon to be released Intel Discrete graphics. What I am upset about is that AMD always has to play catch-up for it to be equal or slightly better by defaulting to shrinking node.

So for AMD to equal the performance of Nvidia Ampere 3080 series, they will have to go to 5nm am I rite?

Well, your concern is that AMD is inside the consoles. Even if AMD had a chip that would compete with Ampere doesn't mean it would show up in the consoles. If this next gen sees 6-7yrs before a new gen, and you factor in that Nvidia has been releasing a new chip every 2yrs, the consoles would be 3 generations behind by the next-next gen comes out.