Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Brudda26 said:
It was sold at a loss in its first year
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That's what Sony said, but there was info out there that sated that PS4 cost $380 to build. And only a few months laters Sony came out and said they're no longer selling at loss, which means it was either a lie or the initial loss was extremely minimal.
 
bitbydeath said:
You had a $150 difference between S and X but just $50 between X and Lockhart which is arguably a similar jump in tech. $350 would be at a massive loss, I doubt MS could afford it.
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Massive loss I don't think it be much more of a loss than they eat on X going for 350 daily. I don't think there will be a big difference in cost between the X and lockheart. The X has and expensive cooling solution that cancels out the SSD. The lockheart chip will be very small if it is 4tf probably 250mm. That balances out the more expensive process. The ram will be more expensive so it might be a little more costly to produce but not much. I don't see the point in the X when lockheart would be same cost to make and quickly get cheaper with scales of economy since it be a high volume product unlike the X.
 
DaGamez said:
Just keep in mind that XSX is the Xbone X equivalent in this scenario (big apu and all that). Lockhart would be a cheaper console, smaller chips, fewer memory chips, etc.
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Or there is no Lockhart.
And it's just a slim Xbox One X
 
~Fake said:
What your definition for 'cheaper'? If windows central was right, both Lockhart and Series X have a Ryzen CPU, unlike the expensive Xbox One X with an overclocked Jaguar CPU.
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Sony and MS pay for wafers and a licensing fee to AMD, they don't pay retail. The only thing that matters to them is size of the dies and yields, what's on there is immaterial to their costs.

TGO said:
Or there is no Lockhart.
And it's just a slim Xbox One X
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Unlikely, without a die shrink on the APU, and why do that when you have newer tech that's not limited by the old cpus.
 
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Mr Moose said:
They are currently having a month long event of sorts, from what I read, 25 years of PlayStation thing, and PS4 was revealed (most specs) in Feb 2013. That's really all people have to go on, and Klee said something about Feb.
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I was at that location last week during the NY Video Game Awards. I 100% assure you nothing is happening at that location. It's VERY small.
 
martino said:
nice ad hominem dodge
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D8G0QmI.jpg
 
Niked said:
I bet we dont get any info from Sony this week. We will se nothing in February. In Mars Sony will announce they delay PS5 to Q2 2021. The next generation will be a hard lesson for arrogant and lazy Sony. Im looking forward to PS6 and a hungry and competitive Sony that holds no prisoners!....
This is a let down
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In 2013 around this time you had no idea about ps4 what so ever. Now u know ps5 features and DS5 features . Just a little patience man
 
quest said:
Massive loss I don't think it be much more of a loss than they eat on X going for 350 daily. I don't think there will be a big difference in cost between the X and lockheart. The X has and expensive cooling solution that cancels out the SSD. The lockheart chip will be very small if it is 4tf probably 250mm. That balances out the more expensive process. The ram will be more expensive so it might be a little more costly to produce but not much. I don't see the point in the X when lockheart would be same cost to make and quickly get cheaper with scales of economy since it be a high volume product unlike the X.
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Not sure either but MS made a point of not discontinuing it for at least one - two years after next-gen arrives so there will be a difference between the two.
 
Reindeer said:
I'm not sure, some reports concluded they were actually selling at profit and it was just a PR statement. They also came out few months later saying they no longer sell at loss. Even if there was a loss, it must have been very small.
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I'd believe the word out of the horses mouth over a 'report' that is making guesses.
 
bitbydeath said:
I'd believe the word out of the horses mouth over a 'report' that is making guesses.
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I didn't completely dismiss that they sold at loss. Again, they said in May 2014 they no longer sell at loss, so the initial loss couldn't have been that great if in few months they were either breaking even or selling at profit.
 
Lockhart at $300 seems like a stretch. I'm thinking $350 if PS5 is $400.

Or maybe even $400 if PS5 and SeX are $500.

Who knows. Depends if Lockhart is really 4TF as rumours say.
 
Reindeer said:
Agreed, Lockhart's price could very much depend on what the price for PS5 is.
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Ya.

Lockhart 300, PS5 400, SeX 500 sounds like a nice utopian pricing scheme, but really comes down to what each systems power is, and whether Sony or MS care for $50 bumps. When it gets to prices that high it seems like it's $100 bumps at a time.
 
quest said:
Sony is the run away leader they can price their mid generation refresh how they wish. The pro is hardly worth 399.99 but since Sony is dominating it becomes the price. The market dominator can dictate prices to a degree
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So you're expecting it to drop $200 in price at PS5's launch?
 
since i have pro since launch i was not aware that this generation of console at this point is really overppriced
 
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joe_zazen said:
In the real world 9v12 isnt close. But how was originsl x1 (40% difference) framed by insiders and media? Further the fact Oberon was still being tested in summer of 2019....

8-9 TF looks insane now, but when work began in 2015, MS had been coasting since 2011 and Nintendo was not a threat...so he are two alternate ps5 timelines.

worst timeline for ps5 hardware:
In 2015, sony was closing studios, keeping dev count absolutely minimal, and not addressing genre deficiencies. They were milking PS. Given that set of circumstances, and a huge does of hubris, they tell Cerny to target nothing more,than a ps4 type good-enough-break-even console. Cerney tells AMD to make a suitable apu for a break even $399 box.

then, as 2018 progresses, MS starts dumping cash into gaming; Google begins making moves; and even Nintendo starts tearing things up. Suddenly, competition is an order of magnitude greater. Sony becomes very concerned about how PS had been managed, and initiates firings and a big management shuffle.

They have much regret that during 2013-2018, PS did not solidify their portfolio via acquisition, studio expansions, and addressing their genre deficiencies—rather than what they did do: reduce studio count and focus on sport and 3rd person action story games made by tiny teams. They also regret their directive to make a cheapo ps5 apu.

in 2018, they realise the mistakes and begin to scramble. on the hardware front that means adding things they can add (super fast 2TB ssd and nice quiet cooling) and and doing their best with Oberon. But a radical redesign of an apu takes 2+ years, and the only company that can do it in less time is Apple. So they make do.

Sony has a 20 minute State of Play in Feb where nothing concrete is revealed about ps5 except for ssd speeds. A second launch state of play occurs after E3 that reveals an anaemic launch lineup and more ssd numbers. Actual numbers and specs only get revealed after launch in Nov., that work being done by the public.

playstation fans boo.

best Timeline for ps5 hardware

Sony management, being very happy with Cerny's ps4, gives him a nearly free hand with ps5 in 2015, saying to him 'we'll eat up to $159' per launch console.

Cerny decides to invest in cool technologies we haven't seen yet, and tells AMD to pull out all the stops in making a $650 BOM 2020 console. They staff up on software engineers and make a killer OS and fantastic dev tools.

Amd delivers the first chiplet console with 72 CUs (dual gpu), ray tracing, and their newest zen tech.

sony fans cheer wildly at February 29 reveal of the new 13+ TF $650 BOM console, preorders for $499 up now.
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Give us more of the "best timeline" storyline!
 
Reindeer said:
Agreed, Lockhart's price could very much depend on PS5.
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You would think MS has already a plan outlined for pricing regardless of what the competition is doing.
Same with Specs and everything else.
Seems some people think MS has had a spy in Sony HQ and has got a plan for price and power based on Sony's plans.
Something which is pretty evident no one knows.
Probably why Sony keeps skipping E3, it was a source for leaks.
 
it doesn't matter if the PS4 was sold at a loss, what you have to keep in mind is that even at the time it released it only had GPU capabilities lower than that of a mid range PC card in the $200 spectrum (you could get a 2.4-ish Tflop AMD card back then for that price)
let's say MS and Sony will go a similar route this gen, then we can look up current AMD cards at that range and see what we get.

we are barely getting above 6TF at that price range from AMD at this very moment.
and now add the fact that we also need to account for a supposed state of the art SSD, we need 8 Zen 2 CPU cores, RayTracing technology and we need at least 16GB of GDDR6

let's be generous and say that in this price range by the end of the year we will get an RDNA GPU that can reach 8TF and we would have a $400 box.

if one or both of the next gen systems have higher specs than that you can say goodbye to the $400 price range. the question is are they comfortable doing that? that's the ultimate question here... will they go above $400, will they stay at $400 but sell at a loss, will that stay at $400 and have a console that can be sold without a loss?
 
TGO said:
You would think MS has already a plan outlined for pricing regardless of what the competition is doing.
Same with Specs and everything else.
Seems some people think MS has had a spy in Sony HQ and has got a plan for price and power based on Sony's plans.
Something which is pretty evident no one knows.
Probably why Sony keeps skipping E3, it was a source for leaks.
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I'm sure they have a price they're going with, but they could always bump it up by a $50 if PS5 is expensive.
 
Reindeer said:
I'm not sure, some reports concluded they were actually selling at profit and it was just a PR statement. They also came out few months later saying they no longer sell at loss. Even if there was a loss, it must have been very small.
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The BoM was just a bit under the retail price, it was impossible to sell at profit at launch when you consider distribution cost and retailer's margins.
 
Hawking Radiation said:
Please bear in mind that this game was done off a 1.8TF GPU and a shit tier mobile CPU.

Can you even imaging something north of 10TF and a desktop class CPU running this game.

FAARRKKK !!!
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Yup.

Its always been like this when comparing pcs and consoles.

pc gamers like to bring up weak consoles holding back gaming, yet pcs are the ones where a game can still run on an old spec rig with windows 7.
 
Pretty sure the accepted insider* view was that the Sony's decision to change from 2019 to 2020 was made in 2017. I.e. in very good time.

Matt and Klee from the other site.
 
Aceofspades said:
What I love about Sony is that they are not trying to appease social media nerds . They are revealing PS5 on their own schedule which conspires confidence.
Video games industry is full of games that has been altered from their original vision just to avoid social media backlash, fucking Kudos to Sony.

We know PS5 is coming, It will be revealed on the right time. Sony must have been laughing their ass off reading this overreactions, rumors, specs fake leaks and having a field day with it .
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This is building hype and its working. The less Sony says, the more the hype builds.

For once i actually like the silence even though i feel im going crazy each day. But when Sony starts to show what they're working on, its going to be a social media nuke and i'm sure there will also be many surprises.

For once i'd like to go into this reveal blind, not knowing anything and being blown away by what will be on display. Can't wait.
 
DrDamn said:
Pretty sure the accepted insider* view was that the Sony's decision to change from 2019 to 2020 was made in 2017. I.e. in very good time.

Matt and Klee from the other site.
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Jason said they "entertained" the idea at beginning of 2017 but were always set to 2020. I remember Jason debunking SemiAccurate back in March 2018 when they said it will be released in 2019.
 
martino said:
since i have pro since launch i was not aware that this generation of console at this point is really overppriced
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Oh god yeah. I would have bought a Pro long ago if Sony was willing to drop the price. Lowest I've seen it was around $300, but even that was still a bit much for me. At least when we're this close to PS5.

It's why I just settled on selling my PS4 for now. I'll just catch up on the games from this year once I get PS5.
 
Vinex said:
I'm new here, but seriously what's wrong with most of people here?? I mean Shu has said that the devs told him that the ps5 is the easiest console that they've ever developed for.
Jason schreier said that MS has been well behind Sony w/r/t in communication, plus he said both consoles are similar in power (and both sound VERY powerful) . Ll Both consoles are pretty much done at this point with some updates going forward...
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All respects to Schreir, but he is just one person and not 100% correct. If other people are speculating things you don't like hearing, at least consider the fact that some of us are doing this not out of spite or dumb console warring, but because we've been following developments on this stuff long enough to arrive at some conclusions.

Myself personally, there is a lot of circumstantial and contextual stuff from the past year or so which have led me to my conclusions so far. Also you are misinterpreting Shu's comments; he was referring to PlayStation consoles when mentioning that quote, not competitor offerings. And to route back to not just Schreir but a lot of insiders actually, always keep in mind that we do not know the full context of what they have been told, such as when they were told, who told them such things, or the position of the people who've told them (not all employees at companies have the same access level of stuff like next-gen system specs. Some teams at big companies may not even be working on next-gen projects so they wouldn't need to know upper-level next-gen details other teams would know).

Basically, there's way too many variables even in terms of rather solid insiders who have some sort of vetting to them, to take what they are mentioning as 100% accurate. What we CAN take as being more or less accurate, however, is hard data like benchmark testing data leaks, photos of next-gen system components, new company hires/departures and their positions, fab wafer allocation numbers by company (AMD, for example) for a given process, and official reports from companies or technical analysis from looking at financial quarterly reports and stated company production target goals.

That is solid data, and it can either be put out officially or data-mined from people who have the means and time to data-mine it. And that is the main source of my own personal speculation. Same for many others; we can't help if all of that plus circumstantial patterns in rumors or event the past year or so, lead to a certain conclusion. It just is what it is 🤷‍♂️

DrDamn said:
Pretty sure the accepted insider* view was that the Sony's decision to change from 2019 to 2020 was made in 2017. I.e. in very good time.

Matt and Klee from the other site.
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Why were they still testing Oberon at 2GHz as late as June 2019 then? That doesn't add up whatsoever.
 
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DrDamn said:
Pretty sure the accepted insider* view was that the Sony's decision to change from 2019 to 2020 was made in 2017. I.e. in very good time.

Matt and Klee from the other site.
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R600 said:
Jason said they "entertained" the idea at beginning of 2017 but were always set to 2020. I remember Jason debunking SemiAccurate back in March 2018 when they said it will be released in 2019.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
Why were they still testing Oberon at 2GHz as late as June 2019 then? That doesn't add up whatsoever.
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iirc the narrative from Klee was the [alleged] delay was due to getting back.compat. to work .. though how he would know - thought his source was just a game dev. probably just rumour mill.
 
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Thinking about price sony knows that $£€399 is the sweet spot. I can totally see it hitting that price, especially so considering how fast tech moves forward these days even if its sold at a loss within a year it should be getting sold at a profit.

In a ideal world we should be able to afford all the consoles, but we cant and sony knows this hence why they like that 399 price point they know its affordable and can create a powerful console within that price range.

I'd by both if I could but when works cuts over half your hours its limiting me to one 🙃 going from 1200 to 600 a month is not fun
 
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