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ResilientBanana
Member
All hail lord 4chan, source of truth. I'm starting to wonder in the 7nm Vega was created not as a stop-gap but to give them a reason to release a prototype with all them R&D dollars creating the 7nm video cards. Not only that, but to also give Sony and Microsoft a video card with a similar setup that would be close to what the new consoles will be toting.
Edit: brain thinking
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Fake
Member
Its a leak thread, so... 'my leak is better than yours.'
thelastword
Banned
Actually, it is AMD that is ahead of NV with its architecture. You can see that easily with Vega's performance with modern api's, not long in the tooth api's where the monopolistic NV crippled AMD's performance.....
NV actually followed AMD's lead with better compute for Turing over Pascal. NV followed AMD with freesync support and yet their cards don't even do freesync over Hdmi for the tv's that support it.... Amd has been on the charge with compute, FP16, better IQ, less compression. Amd is about pushing better Api's that don't gimp hardware but instead maximize hardware, so they gave huge support to mantle/vulkan, dx12.
They are about pushing next gen features like Radeon Chill, StoreMi, the ID buffer, hbcc..... They have plans to do raytracing via compute, which current Vega can already handle with aplomb... Amd is about giving us lots of bandwidth and giving us more vram than a Gtx 970 in 2019, they are not about their flagship cards coming with less vram than their prior generation.... So much for NV being ahead of AMD, if you value worse IQ, worse frame times and to be crippled by vram, sure.....
Perhaps you should thank AMD, that the game works reign is loosened, that the gpp program was dismantled. We're entering an open standards era in the GPU space, pioneered by AMD, where no piece of hardware from any manufacturer is purposely gimped through proprietary BS. The industry should boost technology together as a united front, as is happening with Radeon Rays, where Crytek, PD, ND and all the top devs are contributing. Nvidia is about stifling the industry, lieing and taking what's not theirs, hence, another company is suing them for 5 cases of patent infringement........
Nvidia has not been innovating anything in this industry except their wallets, with similar Pascal performance in Turing with less vram than pascal and msrp' s in excess of 40% from Pascal...... Innovation indeed....
And NO, Vega was never said to go against a 2080ti....Where are you getting this from? Quotes from AMD on that one, receipts please.....
In any case, the two people who own 2080ti's has little impact to Nvidia's bottomline, the low end to midrange is where the money is at through volume..... Besides, Turing is not selling well, so NV is in a world of hurt.....
Vega VII is a better production card than the 2080ti, it's also a better mining card with record breaking hash rates and its comparable to rtx 2080 in games, beats it in many of the latest games too and we're talking aib NV cards which are more expensive than Vega, has much less vram and which have massive overclocks on top....
ResilientBanana
Member
I will say, it is neck and neck with the 2080 at 4K but they are the same price.
Some may poo poo this site, but I like seeing it side by side.
UserBenchmark: AMD Radeon-VII vs Nvidia RTX 2080
gpu.userbenchmark.com
The problem I'm seeing is, for $700 I can get a better card and get more FPS if I stuck with nVidia.
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Negotiator
Member
Wait, I thought memory compression was lossless?
If so, why is less memory compression a good thing?
Polaris added DCC, which seems like an improvement to me over previous GCN iterations:
Getting the Most Out of Delta Color Compression
DCC is a domain-specific compression that tries to take advantage of data coherence. It’s lossless, and adapted for 3D rendering. The key idea is to process whole blocks instead of individual pixels.
gpuopen.com
joe_zazen
Member
Ive always heard that 18 months is the minimum from final tapeout to store shelves, so final silicon should be ready.
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Insane Metal
Member
Zen 2 is ready.
Come On Tars
Member
I am most excited for a new controller because with how console gaming is starting to embrace mouse and keyboard more, we have a chance of a new form factor. I have always wanted a gamepad like a Razer Tartarus v2, with a fully functional ANALOG joystick.
PC gaming has been amazing. That being said, every time I start a single player game I have this nagging debate of using a controller or mkb. Shooters tend to make this decision easier but games like the resident evil 2 remake have me stuck. I want to buy the full game but after the demo it's hard for me to decide if I want to play through this game with a controller or mouse and keyboard. This game occupies a middle ground of a shooter and a slow paced immersive experience. You gain awesome aim with a mouse but lose the slow smooth movement of an analogue joystick. It feels better to explore the hallways with analogue movement instead of a robot scuttling zipping around laser beaming headshots. With fps it's a no brainer but for games like this and Hitman it's tough to decide.
Other solutions I have entertained using are using a ps move nunchuck or a gamepad like the razer tartarus with a modded analogue stick (expensive to have someone do it and I'm not sure of the results, would be amazing if razer made an official one with a real analog joystick on it)
Imagine having best of both worlds in pc gaming. Racing games, tps, all have the aim of a mouse and the immersion of a joystick. Hopefully it happens!
PC gaming has been amazing. That being said, every time I start a single player game I have this nagging debate of using a controller or mkb. Shooters tend to make this decision easier but games like the resident evil 2 remake have me stuck. I want to buy the full game but after the demo it's hard for me to decide if I want to play through this game with a controller or mouse and keyboard. This game occupies a middle ground of a shooter and a slow paced immersive experience. You gain awesome aim with a mouse but lose the slow smooth movement of an analogue joystick. It feels better to explore the hallways with analogue movement instead of a robot scuttling zipping around laser beaming headshots. With fps it's a no brainer but for games like this and Hitman it's tough to decide.
Other solutions I have entertained using are using a ps move nunchuck or a gamepad like the razer tartarus with a modded analogue stick (expensive to have someone do it and I'm not sure of the results, would be amazing if razer made an official one with a real analog joystick on it)
Imagine having best of both worlds in pc gaming. Racing games, tps, all have the aim of a mouse and the immersion of a joystick. Hopefully it happens!
KlickKlack
Banned
and who is saying that?
i was talking about GPU with Dedicated RT hardware and GPU without dedicated RT hardware.
joe_zazen
Member
I’m hoping for a rollerball to replace trackpad on ds5 so we can get that marble madness 2020 i want.
Negotiator
Member
What about gyro aiming? PS4 already has that...
Come On Tars
Member
I am on pc. And aiming is not the issue, it's movement.
Ar¢tos
Member
I guess that will depend on how PSVR2 tracking will be done. I would prefer psvr2 to be bundled with vr controllers, so there is no need to use ds5 for VR games, and have a light on the controller.
Handy Fake
Member
The only real issue I had with the light was that the bloody thing reflected off the screen while I was playing.
Fake
Member
Some games like PS4 exclusives (Horizon, GoW, etcc.) and others like Witcher 3 keep change the color of the light based on your health (green 100%, yellow 50%, red critical). Constant change of color drain the DS4 battery.
Imtjnotu
Member
I'd rather have a backlight controller than a stupid led bar doing nothing
bitbydeath
Member
Yes and Cerny had announced the former.
ethomaz
Banned
I can only laugh
what a wonderful mind to create histories that doesn't existis in reality.
ethomaz
Banned
Actually Navi is confirmed to be part of Radeon VII line of product.
Vega 7nm is the high-end models (56 to 64 CUs).
Navi 7nm is the mid-end models (32 to 40 CUs).
Navi 7nm is the direct sucessor of Polaris.
Of course that didn't affect Sony and MS that can choose to use a Custom chip based in Navi with more than 40CUs... it is just that the Desktop GPUs from AMD won't have more than 40CUs with Navi.
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CyberPanda
Banned
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE
I think you're still missing the point here. When people speculate or "wishful think" about PS5 being a powerful device or more powerful than the Xbox equivalent based on "insider" and "leaked" information it's almost immediately dismissed. There's almost no discussion around it. Then again, no...
www.resetera.com
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
ethomaz
Banned
That forum has a weird way to not accept others opinions even when they are wrong.Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE
I think you're still missing the point here. When people speculate or "wishful think" about PS5 being a powerful device or more powerful than the Xbox equivalent based on "insider" and "leaked" information it's almost immediately dismissed. There's almost no discussion around it. Then again, no...
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
There are so many uninformed and misunderstanding comments there that some makes me shocked
.
CyberPanda
Banned
Dabaus
Banned
Things did get radio silent after that Wired Cerny interview didnt they? Seemed like every other day we were getting rumors about how MS will have the most powerful console ever and are set to "dominate" next gen then, poof, nothing. Silence before the E3 storm?
thelastword
Banned
I guess my point is made..I can only laugh
Haha, I hope you don't change your tune, when real information about Navi debuts..... Won't be too long now.....Actually Navi is confirmed to be part of Radeon VII line of product.
Vega 7nm is the high-end models (56 to 64 CUs).
Navi 7nm is the mid-end models (32 to 40 CUs).
Navi 7nm is the direct sucessor of Polaris.
Of course that didn't affect Sony and MS that can choose to use a Custom chip based in Navi with more than 40CUs... it is just that the Desktop GPUs from AMD won't have more than 40CUs with Navi.
ethomaz
Banned
I always though that claim from MS was a bit misinterpreted by some... for me it always looked MS will do generation resets like the past but all the XB1 games will run on NextXbox (Forward Compatibility) while exclusive NextXbox games will run only in the NextXbox family (they won't run on XB1 family).
Some thought MS was saying all games will runs in all devices (XB1, X, NextXbox, etc).
Glad MS is doing a generation reset like I expected.
ethomaz
Banned
What that even means? You made a 50/50 bet to say I told you about Navi? If you are wrong what do you will say? And Navi is indeed the successor of Polaris AMD was always clear about that... it is part of Radeon VII family.
How I will change my tune about something that own AMD said?
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Actually Navi is confirmed to be part of Radeon VII line of product.
Vega 7nm is the high-end models (56 to 64 CUs).
Navi 7nm is the mid-end models (32 to 40 CUs).
Navi 7nm is the direct sucessor of Polaris.
Of course that didn't affect Sony and MS that can choose to use a Custom chip based in Navi with more than 40CUs... it is just that the Desktop GPUs from AMD won't have more than 40CUs with Navi.
Where does it say the info about Navi CU count?
Dee Dah Dave
Member
It’s going to be 14TF Xbox and 20TF FP16 PS5.
ethomaz
Banned
AMD own words released today.
"In gaming, we successfully returned to the high-end market with the launch of our Radeon™ VII GPU in February 2019 and we are on track to introduce our next-generation “Navi” GPUs for the mainstream market later this year. "
Navi (at least this year) is mid-range... up to 40 CUs (I don't know the right number but it is probably 36 like Polaris)... while Vega 7nm continue to be the high-end solution.
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bitbydeath
Member
AMD has confirmed Navi as a high-end card FYI.
AMD claims Navi will compete with Nvidia’s high-end… is it a more powerful GPU than we thought?
We thought AMD's next-gen Navi graphics cards would be mainstream Polaris replacements, but the messaging seems very different
www.pcgamesn.com
ethomaz
Banned
You can read yourself officially form AMD.AMD has confirmed Navi as a high-end card FYI.
AMD claims Navi will compete with Nvidia’s high-end… is it a more powerful GPU than we thought?
We thought AMD's next-gen Navi graphics cards would be mainstream Polaris replacements, but the messaging seems very different
"In gaming, we successfully returned to the high-end market with the launch of our Radeon™ VII GPU in February 2019 and we are on track to introduce our next-generation “Navi” GPUs for the mainstream market later this year. "
BTW you own quote says the same "Whenever we’ve spoken to AMD’s AIB partners, and colleagues in the industry, the general consensus has been that Navi is going to be a 7nm mainstream GPU that will take the place of Polaris in the Radeon tech tree. "
Navi = Mainstrain
Vega 7nm =High-end (already launched)
The article assumption is based in this part...
"I asked David Wang specifically about Navi going toe-to-toe with Nvidia at the high-end of the market, and Dr. Su seems to be talking about the Turing-based cards from Nvidia when she says they’re going to be ‘right there in the mix.’ "
Well based in that quote he estimate Navi could be a little more powerful than expected... but right there in the mix is a bit ambiguous because nVidia RTX cards are there from RTX 2060 to RTX 2080TI... I'm a trully believer Navi will be better than RTX 2060 (and one version will trade direct blows)... but to be better than RTX 2080? No way... they are still threating Vega 7nm as their high-end solution.
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ResilientBanana
Member
They could always Stream to the X1S/X1X, I don't see that being an issue. But the Architectures will be radically different for first party. Also, AMD will compete, but rarely defeat the competition. I'd like to see where they end up, but nVidia's 3000 series cards will be looming.
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TBiddy
Member
Gotta love these speculation threads. On the one side, we have the people claiming MS will come out guns blazing with the more powerful console and that the leaks/speculation showing otherwise are clearly false rumours made up by idiots.
On the other side, we have the people claiming Sony will take MS to town and whoop their ass, based on their preferred choice of random 4chan leaks, while completely ignoring the abundance of leaks giving the throne to MS.
On the other side, we have the people claiming Sony will take MS to town and whoop their ass, based on their preferred choice of random 4chan leaks, while completely ignoring the abundance of leaks giving the throne to MS.
Lort
Banned
I wonder if MS had this planned all along... insiders and speculators agree that Sony recently revealing basline specs so early was a reaction to the xbox one x and in order to get a jump on Microsoft. Now Microsoft can estimate very accurately those specs they can tweak lockhart and anaconda to the price performance brackets they want. We are still 12 months out 18 if ms is happy to launch 6 months later .. plenty of time to tweak specs of an existing architecture.
ethomaz
Banned
Looks similar to what happened in 2013.
Let's see how it turn out this time.
thelastword
Banned
I gave you real benchmarks across 37 games, games tested recently.... This is no database of old results and estimated perf ratios...The difference between a GTX 1070 and an RX Vega 56 is not huge, knowing that the latter came out a year later and there are a lot of games where the GTX 1070 is in front of the RX Vega 56 despite its age,
so I maintain what I said before:
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-vega-56.c2993
Radeon VII is absolutely not part of the "Navi" lineup, you are misunderstanding this. Radeon VII and Navi are simply two GPU products landing this year, they are not interchangeable and not the same product line.......One has already launched, the Navi gpu's will debut soon...Actually Navi is confirmed to be part of Radeon VII line of product.
Vega 7nm is the high-end models (56 to 64 CUs).
Navi 7nm is the mid-end models (32 to 40 CUs).
Navi 7nm is the direct sucessor of Polaris.
Of course that didn't affect Sony and MS that can choose to use a Custom chip based in Navi with more than 40CUs... it is just that the Desktop GPUs from AMD won't have more than 40CUs with Navi.
Navi will also be high-end, now that's something that is actually official and was specified by several Amd officials, yet people want to go on claiming that Navi is only mid-gen...Make of that, what you will.....
ethomaz
Banned
"In gaming, we successfully returned to the high-end market with the launch of our Radeon™ VII GPU in February 2019 and we are on track to introduce our next-generation “Navi” GPUs for the mainstream market later this year. "
These people lol
You are really a figure
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Some insiders and some speculators think that and they based on the very concrete specs of “yep, Ryzen with 8 cores and a HPU we are do developing with AMD... and yeah, we have a very fast storage solution”. Not sure that, given the timing of the announcement and the overall sales performance of PS4 Pro vs Xbox One X as well as Xbox One vs PS4, this is much a reaction to MS and Xbox One X as some people may think.
SonGoku
Member
With GNC 64CU limit in place there might be left over space to be used for specialized RT HWAgreed, consoles could include acceleration of some widely used RT operations (ray/ triangle intersection test for example) and some features that may make managing and updating data structures commonly used in Ray tracing algorithms, but spending way too many transistors on HW that can only be used for RT operations in consoles is only a win if they crack the problem and find a way to deliver fully raytraced 1080p@60 or 4K@30 FPS game’s with a good enough graphics and interactivity jump over the top of the line current games... this is a hard task which I do not see arriving in a console before the generation after Xbox Two / PS5.
I fear this is going to become the dGPU meme from one side unless it is discovered that it was that side that has more FLOPs and less custom RT HW.
Turing RTX/Tensor cores apparently only take 22% of die space.
thelastword
Banned
Easy, Vega VII is the highest end Vega product......"In gaming, we successfully returned to the high-end market with the launch of our Radeon™ VII GPU in February 2019 and we are on track to introduce our next-generation “Navi” GPUs for the mainstream market later this year. "
These people lol
You are really a figure
Also, where did AMD say that Navi is only mid-end and it will be limited by 40 CU's?
SonGoku
Member
Personally I dont believe MS will use more advanced tech than Sony (i.e RT)
Having said that specialized hw is orders of magnitude faster than software based approach
Case in point: Look at how much faster the 2060 is compared to the 1080Ti when RTX is enabled, with RTX off the 1080TI is a much faster card overall.
ethomaz
Banned
Wait... are you agreeing with me now? Crazy.
Reading compression I guess?
Navi this year being only mainstream, sucessor of Polaris... so probably 36CUs and I give even a range up to 40 CUs... anything better than that will put it at high-end not mainstream and we know AMD is not replacing Vega 7nm that will be the only high-end solution this year.
I'm not here to create or make story like your previous posts... I just shared the AMD plans from it own mouth... you can try to deny or fight against it but I will only be here laughing lol sorry.
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SonGoku
Member
Both are likely using the same 64CU (4 disabled) chip, which one is more powerful comes down to clocks and cooling. Those can be adjusted on the fly and we are not even close to launch yet.
Who is more powerful than who is just pr talk atm and fanboy ammo.
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TLZ
Banned
Locked behind 7 keys. Heh.
CyberPanda
Banned
What does locked behind 7 keys mean?
Lort
Banned
7 key architecture choices?
7 levels of security?
Its the kind of odd thing to make up which makes this sound potentially true.
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