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[Negotiator]

Just Cause 4 is a dumb example, since it still uses CPU SIMD. The improvement in 4 vs 3 is that it uses all available cores vs single-threading.

But even JC4 cannot match games like Uncharted 4 or HZD that make heavy use of GPGPU compute to offload physics, AI etc.

GPU compute will always trump even the strongest CPU available. I'm sure Cerny and co will do all the necessary modifications needed, they're not moving away from this programming paradigm just because "Zen > Jaguar".

 

[R600]

Gonzalo can be discarded because it features the RX5700 which we know isn't in the PS5 or the next Xbox.

Except it doesnt. It contains Navi at 1.8GHZ, thats all.

 

[bitbydeath]

Except it doesnt. It contains Navi at 1.8GHZ, thats all.

It contains no Ray Tracing.

 

[SonGoku]

Further improving. Plenty self explanatory right there.

If TF improvements were as tame as some predict they wouldn't even mention it and instead focus on other aspects
The fact that he mentioned TF and SSD speed together should be telling that GPU raw performance (TF) is one of the pillars of the PS5 design.

The crumbles are there, RDNA2, 7nm EUV, RT.

 

[nowhat]

But even JC4 cannot match games like Uncharted 4 or HZD that make have use of GPGPU compute to offload physics, AI etc.

I'm not disputing both of your examples use GPGPU very heavily, they absolutely do.

The question is though, would they if the Jaguar cores wouldn't suck ass (and not in a pleasant way)?

 

[SonGoku]

The question is though, would they if the Jaguar cores wouldn't suck ass (and not in a pleasant way)?

 

[nowhat]

Oh sure, and we probably will. Just that this gen, at least in part, GPGPU may have been a necessity instead of a preferred solution.

 

[SonGoku]

Oh sure, and we probably will. Just that this gen, at least in part, GPGPU may have been a necessity instead of a preferred solution.

GPGPU is not some lower quality compromise, both have their respective strengths and weakness. Exploiting both CPU & GPU compute will yield the best possible results, important to keep in mind we are talking next gen games here not uprez PS4 games.

 

[Negotiator]

I'm not disputing both of your examples use GPGPU very heavily, they absolutely do.

The question is though, would they if the Jaguar cores wouldn't suck ass (and not in a pleasant way)?

Yes, they would. That's the console philosophy of programming (offloading SIMD tasks to dedicated co-processors) vs PC philosophy that uses CPU for mundane tasks like those.

Here's an example of what I'm saying:

Does Zen 2 FPU performance matter for audio in console games? No, because they will not use the CPU for that, unlike PCs.

Raytraced audio as a baseline feature should tell us that much. The CPU in consoles is more of a captain and less of a worker.

Oh sure, and we probably will. Just that this gen, at least in part, GPGPU may have been a necessity instead of a preferred solution.

It's not a necessity, it's here to stay. GPU compute grows bigger every year, since there are so many tasks suited for it (from gaming/physics simulation to facial recognition/AI surveillance systems).

No common desktop CPU has broken the 1 Teraflop mark yet, while GPUs did that back in 2008 (Radeon 4850).

Advertising Zen 2 flops (800 GigaFlops max vs 8000 GF for Navi 5700 = 10x difference) is nothing impressive. People want their TeraFlop fix. They've had it since 2013 at least. Giga scale is so 2000s. It's not PR-worthy material.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes, they would. That's the console philosophy of programming (offloading SIMD tasks to dedicated co-processors) vs PC philosophy that uses CPU for mundane tasks like those.

Here's an example of what I'm saying:

Does Zen 2 FPU performance matter for audio in console games? No, because they will not use the CPU for that, unlike PCs.

Raytraced audio as a baseline feature should tell us that much. The CPU in consoles is more of a captain and less of a worker.


It's not a necessity, it's here to stay. GPU compute grows bigger every year, since there are so many tasks suited for it (from gaming/physics simulation to facial recognition/AI surveillance systems).

No common desktop CPU has broken the 1 Teraflop mark yet, while GPUs did that back in 2008 (Radeon 4850).

Advertising Zen 2 flops (800 GigaFlops max vs 8000 GF for Navi 5700 = 10x difference) is nothing impressive. People want their TeraFlop fix. They've had it since 2013 at least. Giga scale is so 2000s. It's not PR-worthy material.

Some people still don't understand the built-in advantages of programming for a console over a PC. They think consoles are just PC parts thrown into a small box.

 

[R600]

It contains no Ray Tracing.

Nope, nowhere is it specified if it does or it doesnt contain RT.

 

[R600]

If TF improvements were as tame as some predict they wouldn't even mention it and instead focus on other aspects
The fact that he mentioned TF and SSD speed together should be telling that GPU raw performance (TF) is one of the pillars of the PS5 design.

The crumbles are there, RDNA2, 7nm EUV, RT.

Sounds completely opposite to me. He is making sure to tell everyone that big improvements should be expected specifically in SSD dept.

Yes, of course TF will be increased, but SSD will bring "dramatic improvements"

 

[SonGoku]

Sounds completely opposite to me. He is making sure to tell everyone that big improvements should be expected specifically in SSD dept.

Making emphasis of both as key pillars for inmersive (GPU) and seamless (SSD) experiences, the fact he brought up TF at all is telling.

EDIT: Even if PS5 is 14TF, the HDD->SSD leap is much bigger

 

[bitbydeath]

Nope, nowhere is it specified if it does or it doesnt contain RT.

Cons

• No real-time ray tracing

Radeon RX 5700 and 5700 XT review: AMD brings the fight back to NVIDIA

The unveiling of the Radeon 5000 family and Ryzen third-gen chips at Computex made it clear this was going to be a special year for AMD. Its latest CPUs include a monster 12-core chip for just $499. And with its latest video cards, the Radeon RX 5700 ($349) and RX 5700 XT ($399), AMD is finally...

www.engadget.com

 

[LordOfChaos]

Nope, nowhere is it specified if it does or it doesnt contain RT.

Wait, what, why is this discussion a thing

If it was ready for RT hardware wise, you don't recon AMD would throw that up as a selling point?

 

[SonGoku]

Wait, what, why is this discussion a thing

If it was ready for RT hardware wise, you don't recon AMD would throw that up as a selling point?

I believe they are talking about gonzolo RT capability
Which may or may not have RT or may not exist at all.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I believe they are talking about gonzolo RT capability
Which may or may not have RT or may not exist at all.

Oohh.

Well, back to the Windows benchmark on prototype bespoke Sony hardware discussion then lol

 

[R600]

Radeon RX 5700 and 5700 XT review: AMD brings the fight back to NVIDIA

The unveiling of the Radeon 5000 family and Ryzen third-gen chips at Computex made it clear this was going to be a special year for AMD. Its latest CPUs include a monster 12-core chip for just $499. And with its latest video cards, the Radeon RX 5700 ($349) and RX 5700 XT ($399), AMD is finally...

www.engadget.com

Thats 5700 PC cards. Not Gonzalo. Gonzalo is just confirmed Navi arch APU running at 1,8GHZ nothing more.

 

[SonGoku]

Thats 5700 PC cards. Not Gonzalo. Gonzalo is just confirmed Navi arch APU running at 1,8GHZ nothing more.

Navi 10

 

[bitbydeath]

Thats 5700 PC cards. Not Gonzalo. Gonzalo is just confirmed Navi arch APU running at 1,8GHZ nothing more.

So that leaves either the 5800 or 5900.

 

[bitbydeath]

 

[joe_zazen]

Making emphasis of both as key pillars for inmersive (GPU) and seamless (SSD) experiences, the fact he brought up TF at all is telling.

EDIT: Even if PS5 is 14TF, the HDD->SSD leap is much bigger

I think gamers are going to be wowed by games made exclusively to take advantage of nvme pcie4 tech with 20-24 gb ddr6–which (unfortunately for me) means only sony exclusives. I wish sony weren't so stingy, i mean r* and ubi both have teams of 1500 people working on a single title, at sony you get 1/4 that if you are number one studio, and 1/10 if you are Bend.

 

[Negotiator]

8K + ray-tracing seems rather dubious, even if it's CB...

Navi 5700 is way below that.

 

[bitbydeath]

8K + ray-tracing seems rather dubious, even if it's CB...

Navi 5700 is way below that.

Well as I keep mentioning it doesn't even support Ray Tracing.

 

[SonGoku]

which (unfortunately for me) means only sony exclusives. I wish sony weren't so stingy, i mean r* and ubi both have teams of 1500 people working on a single title, at sony you get 1/4 that if you are number one studio, and 1/10 if you are Bend.

Why unfortunately?
I think Guerrilla/ND sized studios are the sweet spot for exclusive games, and those work on two games each.

When you have too many people it becomes inefficient.

 

[Negotiator]

Why unfortunately?
I think Guerrilla/ND sized studios are the sweet spot for exclusive games, and those work on two games each.

When you have too many people it becomes inefficient.

This is true, but it's also interesting to consider the fact that Rockstar can afford to have 2000 devs since they have a multiplatform policy.

 

[SonGoku]

This is true, but it's also interesting to consider the fact that Rockstar can afford to have 2000 devs since they have a multiplatform policy.

I think they work on multiple games at a time, RDR2 was an 8 year proyect but i highly doubt 2000 people worked on it at the same time for the full duration, maybe the last couple years?

 

[TeamGhobad]

I think they work on multiple games at a time, RDR2 was an 8 year proyect but i highly doubt 2000 people worked on it at the same time for the full duration, maybe the last couple years?

i think they did and then the Housers edited stuff out. That game feels VERY edited. chunks of story missing. Story superglued at the end.

 

[xool]

Navi 10

Are you sure - doesn't navi 10 specifically mean a GPU (not APU) with a fixed die size and design - with the family consisting of CU binned parts and better/worse binnings .. ?

[edit ] Gonzalo is Navi 10 Lite (according to a single source) - not the same thing, but not likely to be much better than discrete Navi10 gpus

 

[SonGoku]

[edit ] Gonzalo is Navi 10 Lite (according to a single source) - not the same thing,

Fair enough
Anyways i seriously doubt is related to ps5 if it exists at all.

 

[Fake]

Is this APU support RT at all?

 

[Imtjnotu]

Make a vote for this thread goku.
Team 8tf vs team 12 vs team 14

 

[SonGoku]

Imagine a next gen open world with these graphics (hzd2, rdr3, gta6, deathstranding2, halo 7, battlefield, battlefront)

 

[Imtjnotu]

Imagine a next gen open world with these graphics (hzd2, rdr3, gta6, deathstranding2, halo 7, battlefield, battlefront)

Mgs5

 

[SonGoku]

Mgs5

Remake?

 

[DemonCleaner]

What is your interpretation of that tweet? I don't know what to think...

im not good deciphering those codes.
from what is heard arcturus seems to be VegaNext further indicating that AMDs gaming and compute cards are brenching of and will exist in parallel.

komachi did a follow-up tweet saying that arcturus will have up to 128 CUs and not just 64:



could be quite a beast then

I think there's a chance this is unrelated to the consoles. I mean after all, Sony didn't even merge there changes to LLVM for Jaguar optimisations until after the console was released. Why would AMD put codenames of consoles in desktop drivers?.

yeah sorry, wasn't clear (to me at least) yet when i posted, that this is VegaNEXT.

 

[Imtjnotu]

im not good deciphering those codes.
from what is heard arcturus seems to be VegaNext further indicating that AMDs gaming and compute cards are brenching of and will exist in parallel.

komachi did a follow-up tweet saying that arcturus will have up to 128 CUs and not just 64:



could be quite a beast then



yeah sorry, wasn't clear (to me at least) yet when i posted, that this is VegaNEXT.

So they are going back to the double card design but with Vega? Wasn't there something in the news the other day that Vega production was done?

 

[DemonCleaner]

So they are going back to the double card design but with Vega? Wasn't there something in the news the other day that Vega production was done?

what? no.

they seem to be making a big monolithic 7nm Vega die with 128CUs

VegaNEXT and RDNA will be existing as parallel archs. one for compute one for gaming.

 

[TLZ]

im not good deciphering those codes.
from what is heard arcturus seems to be VegaNext further indicating that AMDs gaming and compute cards are brenching of and will exist in parallel.

komachi did a follow-up tweet saying that arcturus will have up to 128 CUs and not just 64:



could be quite a beast then



yeah sorry, wasn't clear (to me at least) yet when i posted, that this is VegaNEXT.

Mutha fucka!

#Team26TF.

 

[Mass Shift]

So they are going back to the double card design but with Vega? Wasn't there something in the news the other day that Vega production was done?

Those were just assumptions I guess, nothing official from AMD.

Or maybe only the Vega name is being retired. Calling it Arcturus with RDNA2 instead.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

I'm afraid this doesn't tell us anything at all. Just standard corporate vague PR speak.

Don't loose faith man!

Mutha fucka!

#Team26TF.

We did it TLZ... Arcturus is PS5 confirmed!

 

[MilkyJoe]

"I wonder what's new in the next gen thread?"...

*clicks*

...

 

[INC]

So when we getting a sony event to get any real info

 

[-kb-]

He explicitly mentioned TFLOPS how many TF does the 3700x even have?
If the GPU is on the double digits TF, they'll prop it up especially if its on the 12-13TF range

0.4608 of them.

460GFLOPS is pretty beefy for a CPU.

 

[pawel86ck]

20TF GPU confirmed but still I will be happy with at least 10-14 TF

Imagine a next gen open world with these graphics (hzd2, rdr3, gta6, deathstranding2, halo 7, battlefield, battlefront)

I wonder if desert scene is using RT, it looks way better than similar location in Metro Exodus.

 

[bitbydeath]

So when we getting a sony event to get any real info

PSX most likely.

 

[IceManCat]

Imagine a next gen open world with these graphics (hzd2, rdr3, gta6, deathstranding2, halo 7, battlefield, battlefront)

Pretty cool but it seems to me we already have something similar in Star Wars Battlefront 1 and 2 with their "static backgrounds". I think I'd find it more impressive if the visuals looked like that and it was interactive with the player. Having a static non interactive photorealistic background is something we already have.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

Make a vote for this thread goku.
Team 8tf vs team 12 vs team 14

Which equates to:

• 8 TF (non 7nm EUV)
• 12 TF (7nm EUV)
• 14 TF (7nm EUV)

Those 8TF flat earthers still won't give up though.

Three shader engines or more also points to 7nm EUV.

 

[INC]

PSX most likely.

Which is roughly when dude?

 

[mckmas8808]

Imagine a next gen open world with these graphics (hzd2, rdr3, gta6, deathstranding2, halo 7, battlefield, battlefront)

Thanks! Now I know EXACTLY what we should be expecting when PS5 hits the scene. Anything less would be a disappointment.

Which is roughly when dude?

Usually in late November or early December of this year.