bitbydeath
Member
And even if they chose to completely overhaul it to include RT, the addition/use of RT would tax it even further.
Are people really expecting a 1080P gen given 1080P TVs aren't largely available in stores anymore?
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And even if they chose to completely overhaul it to include RT, the addition/use of RT would tax it even further.
Are people really expecting a 1080P gen given 1080P TVs aren't largely available in stores anymore?
SonGoku
Member
If the 2GHz clock rumor is indeed real, 44CU is the minimum, 48CU the middle ground and 52-56CU the ceiling
Think about it: If all they could pull at 2ghz is 36-40CU they'd be much more likely to go with 48-56CUs at lower clocks (1600-1800mhz) achieving far greater perf/watt
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Imtjnotu
Member
Pretty much. My one post in the swatting thread has over 50 likes here but if I call someone a piece of shit there I'm banned for ever
Imtjnotu
Member
I'm still calling 18tf with 8-12 kugoson cores. Full 8KRT SUPPORT
Racer!
Member
Euv is a certain at this point imo. My bet is 56 CU, lines up perfectly with original leaks.
llien
Banned
How could something that barely has userbase be a "standard baseline"?
Game developers targeting PS4 and XB are targeting some "baseline", but PS4 Pro or XB X it is not.
You have an unknown variable here, that you can set at will.
"New 4k games will be more complex to render" - yes, absolutely. But how many times more complex? It will depend on hardware that Sony and Microsoft will put into consoles there is no "wait wait, you absolutely need to support Y times more complex scenes", it simply doesn't exist, Y can be any number higher than 1.
There is no "natural" value for Y.
It's like the endless "where are my 60fps, isn't hardware fast enough yet" misconception. We could easily have 4k 120fps on PS4, just would need to drop graphics complexity to something along Switch levels.
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SonGoku
Member
Baseline in the sense of it being the min hw requirement to run current console games at 4k, that's why it serves as a benchmark NOT that i expect 6x-8x leaps from midgen to next gen
My expectations fit the traditional 6-8x jump from base consoles
No doubt, which is why even with 11-12TF consoles i expect games to dip below 4k
With 9tf devs will be much more constrained than a 11-12tf console, they'll target 1440p more often
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llien
Banned
They would target below 4k resolutions regardless of the figure. E.g. 15tf? But even cooler looks at slightly lower resolution? Of course they'd go for it.
For that not to happen you need:
1) Either public that would not accept it (e..g. "OMG game isn't even 1080p!!!"
2) GPU no longer being a bottleneck (arguable if that could ever happen)
SonGoku
Member
It would be a similar situation to the Pro & X
The 11-12TF machine would stay closer to the 4K target than the 9TF machine would
The 5700XT is a 1440p card btw
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llien
Banned
Where is the difference between "60fps" target and "4k" target?
SonGoku
Member
Resolution is more flexible, you can use dynamic resolution without detracting from the experience, especially at 4k whereas a unlocked frame rate is more bothersome unless its in the 100fps+ where its less noticeable.
We can also judge GPU performance tier by looking at current games benchmarks: If 5700XT struggles with current gen games at 4K, the situation will only get worse
Closing thoughts: I think 5700XT performance is enough to provide a next gen leap if the target resolution is 1440p
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bitbydeath
Member
And no RT.
vpance
Member
The cost analysis must have worked out better to go high clock and "medium" CU count of 44-52CU, versus the 56-64 low clock setup with a ballpark target of 11TF. Go smaller, better yields, and dump the savings into better cooling. They probably upped their TDP budget to 210w+ is my guess.
llien
Banned
Once again: "next gen" is whatever Sony and MS will put into their consoles.
Neither target fps, nor target resolution depend on what hardware will be inside.
bitbydeath
Member
Once again: "next gen" is whatever Sony and MS will put into their consoles.
Neither target fps, nor target resolution depend on what hardware will be inside.
What we do know:
The 5700 is simply not capable of the above and therefore can be ruled out.
That image is not rumour.
llien
Banned
All new - check
SSD - check
Backwards Compat - check
Ray Tracing - of course not, 5700 discreet GPU doesn't have it yet, we know it, no surprises
8k - lol, I hope nobody read it at "8k gaming"
Disk support - check
3D audio - check
But the point here is, we are talking about performance, not literally 5700 or XT being put into console. Nothing in this list, including ray tracing, tells you anything practical about what "absolutely totally minimal" graphic power will be in the next gen consoles.
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xool
Member
What if 2GHz is the target and the console APU is limited by thermal throttling ..
- Already know AMD has fine grain frequency control/temperature sensors - eg read the recent 110 degrees C news items [edit link ]
- Basically already did something along these lines on the Xbox One X [edit - sort of]
- Could suck for people whos consoles didn't get enough thermal paste - thermal lottery - Sony would need to be much better regarding that than production was for PS4/Pro
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Fortuneelsewhere
Member
Sony is heavily committed to VR. They absolutely can't afford to have a sub 12tf machine if they want VR to take off. I think this is one of the main drivers for them to push the envelope regarding ps5.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
You cannot put an arbitrary TF figure on it like this. The fact Sony have already confirmed that PSVR will be compatible with PS5 if anything suggests to me they will take their time with any follow up.
pawel86ck
Banned
Maybe not with maxed out settings (55-65fps), but at high settings 2080ti is powerful enough (80fps+). In comparison xbox x run upscaled 4K at 30fps and medium settings.
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ResilientBanana
Member
The screen tearing and microstutter in that video is bad. Was that with RTX on also? Typically if it is turned off FPS will skyrocket.
Racer!
Member
So does PS5`s PS4 bc suggest that they are going to take their time with PS5 games? The only thing it suggests is that the people buying PSVR now are going to get use out of it for a long time. Also because of install base. However, they do not want to give the impression that VR is going to replace traditional gaming any time soon, so VR takes back stage for now. They will probably launch PSVR2 a few months after PS5 launch imo.
Darius87
Member
PSVR2 most likely have 1440p screen, because 4k res with over 60fps is ridiculious waste of resourses and not really possible at high graphics fidelity on next-gen sytstems, so expect < 12 tflops to not get disapointed.
ResilientBanana
Member
I'm sure the options will be present.
4k/60 Medium
4k/30 High-Ultra
2k/60 Ultra
2k/144 Med-High
Clearly the 2K will have down-sampling.
sonomamashine
Member
Negotiator
Banned
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
sonomamashine
Member
Depends who you asking
.
SonGoku
Member
Once again: Next gen needs to offer a visual leap (Sony alluded to this multiple times), 5700XT performance is not enough to provide a generational leap at 4k, the only option left is to drop the resolution to 1440p or its approximates to offer the visual leap expected from next gen. RT will drop the rez even further... 5700XT is a 1440p card
People won't buy next gen consoles to play prettier looking current gen games
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Thedtrain
Member
How is this not understood at this point?
llien
Banned
Just be better, no concrete measurable "how much better".
There is no hard line "generational leap" requirement, people surely expect improvements, but 5700 (non-XT!) is what, 8 times faster? That's enough already, even discounting 4k's impact.
Or somewhere between 1440p and 4k.
It is the most likely scenario and there is nothing wrong with that.
On PC with un-optimised generic multiplats, and ridiculous "ultra" settings, yes.
People even buy loud PS4 Pro and XBX, of course they'll buy PS5.
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sonomamashine
Member
Lol most people just wants to play games, look how Nintendo is doing, people sure not buying it for latest and greatest graphics.
Bryank75
Banned
14 tflops of the old PS4 gcn architecture tflops. 9.2 tflops of the rdna type, equivalent to nvidia flops.
www.pcmag.com
Report: PS5 GPU Outperforms a GeForce RTX 2070 Super
Engineering samples of the PS5's Navi-based GPU apparently run at 2GHz and achieve 9.2 teraflops of performance, which outperforms both the GeForce GTX 2070 and 2070 Super.
SonGoku
Member
Next gen better
There is the idea of leapfrogging graphics, visuals not previously attainable
Corny alluded to this back when the Pro launched and that message carried on till now
Pathetic, the PS4 ($400 console designed on a tight budget) GPU was a bigger jump over last gen and the resolution jump was much smaller
So like the Pro then, and 1080p with rt
Nothing wrong at all, it just not suiited for a machine that shoots close to the 4k target
People already have 4k console, they won't be swayed to buy $500 consoles with games that don't show a visual leap over current gen
llien
Banned
Define it in concrete terms, since we are talking about concrete numbers now. What is the minimal perf jump needed from the last gen, and why.
SonGoku
Member
looooool
Nintendo caters to a very different audience, i'd like to see Sony launch a rebranded PS4 Pro as the PS5
In Cerny words, previously unattainable visuals, instantly noticeable
Some examples:
Uncharted2&3->Uncharted4
Killzone3-> Shadowfall
Infamous2-> SecondSon
asscreed3-> whatever asscreed is out now
rdr->rdr2
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I'll take this level of a leap. So what do you think that looks like? Do we have any examples of what a leap like that would look like?
SonGoku
Member
If the"leak" is true, that's my thought as well
If they couldn't get at least 44CUs at 2GHz they would have gone with a wider-slower design
Just tech demos
Im exited how much bigger, immersive and interactive worlds will be
Last gen was constrained corridors, this gen we got much more open levels
When i go back to PS3 games this is instantly noticeable
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sonomamashine
Member
You are missing the point or twisting what i said, most people just want to play video games and next gen not being 14Tf wont stop them buying it.
Darius87
Member
it will be a leap just not from the start of next-gen and not as huge as previous generation because visual leap is narrowing with every generation with diminishing returns.
your assumption of resolution targets is based on pc platform, but console is not pc, but you keep repeating same argument over and over again, look at xonex it almost achieves True 4k with 6tflops cgn which would be 4.2 rdna, 9.2 rdna would be is x2.2 times power of xonex.
it won't crush performance as some may think, RT benefits from apu design, sony not gonna just add RT just to play bellow expected performance targets, it will be optimized to HW level and most likely run at 4k resolution.
bitbydeath
Member
So you do agree that we'll be getting the 5800/5900 but are unsure of how much power these will deliver?
bitbydeath
Member
5700XT isn't possible with RT.
SonGoku
Member
Sure, but not enough to offer a nextgen leap and run at 4k at the same time.
Why you bring Nintendo then?
I agree btw, even with a 9TF console they just need to drop resolution to offer a sufficient visual leap and price it accordingly
This is a myth, we are nowhere near it yet
Sony/MS wouldn't have targetted 2020 if they couldn't provide a next gen leap, with 7nm EUV even 12TF is conservative.
We are not nowhere near next gen starved as we where in 2012.
That's great, it just won't target 4k and offer a next gen visual leap at the same time
Im cautiously optimistic about this but even if that's the case a smaller performance penalty will still push an already weak GPU further
I think so too, 2080S is the performance tier they must be aiming with some customizations on top should be able to do RT at dynamic 4k.
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TeamGhobad
Banned
been away a few weeks, how many TFLOPS are we at now?
rəddəM
Member
Infinite fp8 flops.
SonGoku
Member
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