Because nVidia (and sadly AMD as well) has conditioned PCMR folks to believe that these prices are "normal". We can also thank famous PC YouTubers/streamers for normalizing the ever increasing prices.
$399 -> 256-bit 16GB GDDR6
Maybe Microsoft will be willing to take the hit to undercut Sony. Maybe.
If one company is willing to take a $200 loss ($600 BoM), then that will decide the fate of the next generation.
Because nVidia (and sadly AMD as well) has conditioned PCMR folks to believe that these prices are "normal". We can also thank famous PC YouTubers/streamers for normalizing the ever increasing prices.
Why not price gouge gullible consumers? Every cynical CEO would do the same.
Thank god consoles follow a different business model:
Razor and blades model - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Indeed, gamepass, PS+ and so on can subsidise costs for upcoming generations. I imagine they might want a slower transition to next gen, than last gen, as it might keep existing revenue streams to help alleviate added costs. Then again, who can argue with 1 million units sold day one? Will be very interesting.
It will be interesting to see what the configurations are at the end. The PS4 had twice as many async compute engine's as the 7850 it was based on, and the PS4 pro had FP16 (rapid packed math) from Vega despite being based on the Polaris 10. I am quietly looking forward to what customisations each console manufacturer has brought to their device. Also very interested in what the memory bandwidth and volume will be. Cause that will set the standard for PC graphics cards for the next 7 years.
NeoMembers can't Edit post's
24Gb of Ram is not happening.
If they do that i think it will be even worse, Sony 100$ more expensive because it's more powerful, more/better exclusives,... it's just Sony.
Stolen from "that other place". PS5 is slighty more powerful, slightly.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air OT
If both consoles are within less than 7% of each as some of hinted at, it's basically a wash from a power perspective. I really hope this is true because then the differentiators are really about the games, services, UI, etc.www.resetera.com
Stolen from "that other place". PS5 is slighty more powerful, slightly.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air OT
If both consoles are within less than 7% of each as some of hinted at, it's basically a wash from a power perspective. I really hope this is true because then the differentiators are really about the games, services, UI, etc.
www.resetera.com
He was offered a job elsewhere and took the offer. Nothing sinister there.
Your post history with keyword search , "Xbox", "MS", "Phil"...fucking lol.Lots of carelessness too
Sure thats possible, but if I was Phil and I thought my $500-600 console would beat Sony's cheaper console easily, and made a comment about setting a benchmark for consoles based on the designs by my lead architect, i'd fire that guy too.
Well it's not all about you is it? There are many others who like it. This is also the best way for preservation. If the PS5 can also go the extra mile and do better upscaling or whatever it is called plus other options then even better.
So you can say that their partnership with console makers Sony and MS paid dividends and helped propel their research and therefore tech this time around.Thank you, I was waiting for someone to bring this upCommon misconception (at least for PS4). More education:
Most people assume the PS4 GPU was a scaled down 7870 desktop which released in March 2012 and was only the 2nd fastest card AMD made (the fastest was the 7970). In fact, the PS4 was actually based on the mobile GPU variant called the 7970M which initially released on the PC in April 2012. That card was the absolute fastest mobile card AMD produced and it was in fact based on the full 7870 desktop silicon. If you look at the specs you will see that it is indeed virtually identical to the known PS4 GPU sans the PS4 GPU being even more underclocked from 850 to 800 Mhz. Now even though the PS4 did not release until Nov 2013, that 7970M card was still the fastest mobile card AMD manufactured at the time of the PS4 release! In fact, if you look at the history, AMD did not make another faster mobile GPU until the R9 M295X which didn't release until Nov 2014. This was essentially the mobile version of the 7970 desktop card but it came too late to be included in the PS4 (and was also way too power hungry to be in a console).
So contrary to popular belief, Sony included the absolute best and fastest card available at that time considering AMD's roadmap, PS4 release schedule, and thermal considerations for the console. In fact, if you know about computer hardware and thermals than you will know why it the PS4 HAD to include the mobile version. In short, AMD GPUs at that time were not very power effecient. GPUs in a console typically need to be < 100W TDP in order to be practical given the thermal and cooling limitations in a console. The desktop 7970 GPU released with a TDP of 250W which is absolutely not practical for a console. Even the desktop 7870 GPU had a TDP 175W which again is not practical given that the total TDP for the console is less than 150W. However, AMD was able to make a mobile variant of the 7870 with a TDP of only 75W, perfect for a console. Again this was the absolutely fastest card that was feasible up until the PS4 released in Nov 2013.
People always want to talk about the PS4 being so "underpowered" at launch but if you know that facts and what it takes to build a console from a hardware standpoint, Sony did the best they could given what AMD had available. But the focus for the PS4 (and Xbox One) wasn't on pure power, it was on developer ease and convenience. The real change was the move to x86 architecture on the CPU and again the Jaguar was the only thing AMD had available that could "fit" in a console form factor at that time (the AMD desktop parts were way too big and power hungry).
However, AMD is NOT the same company today that it was in 2012/2013. They have a wide range of highly competitive CPUs and will be releasing a wide range of highly competitive GPUs in the coming year. Not just in raw performance, but more important in terms of efficiency.
Also, the priorities of the console manufactures are different this time around. While the PS4 and Xbox One were mostly about removing barriers for developers, both Sony and Microsoft have made it clear that PS5 and Scarlett will be about pushing the boundaries of gaming. Having announced a GPU with 8K, 120fps, and ray-tracing capabilities says that they will definitely be significantly more powerful than the current RX 5700. If you look back, the PS4 and Xbox One GPU didn't really offer anything "new" at the time (except for ACE units on PS4). There were no marketing buzzwords to highlight advanced features and in fact all Sony could say was that it was a "super charged" PC.
Microsoft focused on software and UX features for Xbox One as part of their defocus on gaming initially. They paid the price and are hell bent on making sure they are technically competitive from day one with Scarlett. The difference in power between the two will be extremely small, probably smaller than any other previous generation.
So again if you think that the next consoles will ship with AMD Navi GPUs equivalent to the current RX 5700, then you are surely mistaken and you will see in due time!
That makes my point, why are they arguing which is better than the other, also they do that to mislead the competition in therm of leaks.
isn't that what a Dev kit is for ?
we are not talking resolution anymore since both of them are 8k capable, we are talking details.
Besides, the solid state storage is by far the biggest difference this time around. You're focus is way off.
LOL WHAT ?!?!
The answer is it depends, we just have to wait and see.
Dunno if this part of your post was sarcasm, but the new surface have a 'Ryzen Surface Edition'. AMD can indeed have mutual benefit of cooperation in this.
community.amd.com
They probably help each other.
They're simply custom SoC contracts using AMD ip blocks. What Sony and MS do is no different than what Zhongshan Subor did with the Subor Z+.
From the same site that has contradicting insiders: "Klee", "Matt", "Klobrille", "Benji". Komachi and Apisak are the only ones who have produced anything with actual data tied to it. Well, you could argue that "Benji" was talking about Vega-based dev kits, which could be accurate in that case. *edit* First 169 results for Fire Strike, Ryzen 2600+Vega 64 are "20K+". 550 results over 20K for Ryzen 3600+Vega 64.Ehhhh, not convinced yet. Just too many assuptions being made. Based on a leaker who says he "was told" that the PS5 was slightly better than Scarlett.
And based on dev kits.
The cooperation can be beyond CPU and GPU mind you. Sony for example, have one of the best color calibrants yet (because Sony Camera division) and they use and abuse on Playstation division for HDR purposes. I still looking for some AMD blog info when they spoke about the benefics of cooperation with Sony on PS4 and what this could matters for the notebook division.
Didn't Lisa Su say onstage they worked with both Sony and MS for a long time on Navi? As in it was a joint research/efforts?
i think what
CrustyBritches
meant to say is AMD take notes from their partners but AMD gonna do what AMD see fit for them money wise, AMD is not going to make something specific for a specific partner, they take notes from different partners and make what suits everyone.
Inside or not, I agree. Think it'll be revolutionary.Cool it, mate
Thank you, I was waiting for someone to bring this up
Most people assume the PS4 GPU was a scaled down 7870 desktop which released in March 2012 and was only the 2nd fastest card AMD made (the fastest was the 7970). In fact, the PS4 was actually based on the mobile GPU variant called the 7970M which initially released on the PC in April 2012. That card was the absolute fastest mobile card AMD produced and it was in fact based on the full 7870 desktop silicon. If you look at the specs you will see that it is indeed virtually identical to the known PS4 GPU sans the PS4 GPU being even more underclocked from 850 to 800 Mhz. Now even though the PS4 did not release until Nov 2013, that 7970M card was still the fastest mobile card AMD manufactured at the time of the PS4 release! In fact, if you look at the history, AMD did not make another faster mobile GPU until the R9 M295X which didn't release until Nov 2014. This was essentially the mobile version of the 7970 desktop card but it came too late to be included in the PS4 (and was also way too power hungry to be in a console).
So contrary to popular belief, Sony included the absolute best and fastest card available at that time considering AMD's roadmap, PS4 release schedule, and thermal considerations for the console. In fact, if you know about computer hardware and thermals than you will know why it the PS4 HAD to include the mobile version. In short, AMD GPUs at that time were not very power effecient. GPUs in a console typically need to be < 100W TDP in order to be practical given the thermal and cooling limitations in a console. The desktop 7970 GPU released with a TDP of 250W which is absolutely not practical for a console. Even the desktop 7870 GPU had a TDP 175W which again is not practical given that the total TDP for the console is less than 150W. However, AMD was able to make a mobile variant of the 7870 with a TDP of only 75W, perfect for a console. Again this was the absolutely fastest card that was feasible up until the PS4 released in Nov 2013.
People always want to talk about the PS4 being so "underpowered" at launch but if you know that facts and what it takes to build a console from a hardware standpoint, Sony did the best they could given what AMD had available. But the focus for the PS4 (and Xbox One) wasn't on pure power, it was on developer ease and convenience. The real change was the move to x86 architecture on the CPU and again the Jaguar was the only thing AMD had available that could "fit" in a console form factor at that time (the AMD desktop parts were way too big and power hungry).
However, AMD is NOT the same company today that it was in 2012/2013. They have a wide range of highly competitive CPUs and will be releasing a wide range of highly competitive GPUs in the coming year. Not just in raw performance, but more important in terms of efficiency.
Also, the priorities of the console manufactures are different this time around. While the PS4 and Xbox One were mostly about removing barriers for developers, both Sony and Microsoft have made it clear that PS5 and Scarlett will be about pushing the boundaries of gaming. Having announced a GPU with 8K, 120fps, and ray-tracing capabilities says that they will definitely be significantly more powerful than the current RX 5700. If you look back, the PS4 and Xbox One GPU didn't really offer anything "new" at the time (except for ACE units on PS4). There were no marketing buzzwords to highlight advanced features and in fact all Sony could say was that it was a "super charged" PC.
Microsoft focused on software and UX features for Xbox One as part of their defocus on gaming initially. They paid the price and are hell bent on making sure they are technically competitive from day one with Scarlett. The difference in power between the two will be extremely small, probably smaller than any other previous generation.
So again if you think that the next consoles will ship with AMD Navi GPUs equivalent to the current RX 5700, then you are surely mistaken and you will see in due time!
The CPU and GPU they're using were designed under Chief Architects who left AMD and are now working for Intel along with John Sell, the Chief Architect of the Xbox Scarlett for fucks sakes. Does that mean impending doom for AMD and Xbox? Doesn't that sound like a dumb conspiracy theory?
www.extremetech.com
