Physiognomonics
Member
You might prepare yourself for being wrong. You never know.
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Tqaulity
Member
#6 Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti (pie in the sky Sony bois)
Pie in the sky huh? On what basis? Just that it's too hard for you to believe?
Let's recap:
- [FACT] We know both consoles will be based on AMD new Navi architecture which is way more efficient than previous Radeon architectures but still not quite as efficient as Nvidia's Turing architecture.
- [FACT] We also know that the next gen console will use some derivative of Navi that will feature hardware based Ray Tracing which does not exist on any AMD GPUs today. Thus, they will NOT be using a standard 5700/XT GPU
- [FACT] In terms of timelines, AMD is set to reveal their next gen RDNA2 GPUs in less than 2 months at CES 2020. Meaning that those chips are already completely designed, taped out, and being manufactured as we speak
- [FACT] The next gen consoles won't launch until late 2020, giving plenty of time to mass produce a new RDNA2 based custom GPU for them
- The RDNA2 GPUs are said to be even more power efficient than the existing NAVI 5700 GPUs. How much we don't know, but if a 5700 base can outperform a GTX 1080 already with < 200W TDP, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the same amount of power can yield 1080TI level perf by end of next year
- [FACT] The 9.7 TFLOPS 5700 XT (stock) is already within 10% of a 1080TI. To put that in perspective, that is a game running at 60fps on a 1080TI would run at ~55fps on a 5700XT (not really that big of a difference). If you get an overclocked version of the 5700 XT, you can essentially get within <5% of 1080TI is most games
- [FACT] Multiple developer/insider leaks so far have all said the GPUs will be in the double digit TFLOP range of performance. The 5700XT is 9.7 TFLOPS so that essentially means we're looking at something above that
- Next gen consoles will use a derivative of the newer Navi RDNA2 GPUs coming out next year w/ Ray Tracing support. Those GPUs are designed to fill in the higher end GPU segment (read: segments above the current 5700/5700XT)
- CONCLUSION: if you put all the pieces together, we can at least say that the next gen console GPUs will be more powerful than the existing 5700/XT. If that is the case and we already can see that the existing 5700XT is very close to a 1080TI today, it is absolutely possible that the next gen console GPUs will be roughly on par with a GTX1080TI/RTX 2070 Super. In fact, one of the 2 manufacturers may even push a bit further and get to RTX 2080 level (which is only ~7% more power over a 1080TI).
I put out facts and logic. Does anyone who believes that the next generation console GPUs will be less powerful than the existing 5700/XT cards have any facts or evidence to support that notion?
Gamernyc78
Banned
I'm sure thy are open to a loss at launch just not heavy losses in the hundreds which was ps3. That is the lesson thy learned. Although I know ps4 and psvr were sold at a profit.
pawel86ck
Banned
RX 5700 benchmarks, so basically speaking facts anyone can check. On the other hand your GTX 1080 performance estimation is big unknown. Yes I know, you have friends all around the world in high places (maybe even president of the United States is your friend because you build rockets after all), but what if your friend has lied to you? Can you imagine what will happen when double digits TF will be finally confirmed? People here on neogaf will remember even one year from now what you wrote today and will consider you untrustworthy. Just yesterday we got another confirmation about double digits Navi in PS5, and 10TF navi should be around 1080ti performance, yet you say people are dreaming expecting 1080ti performance on PS5.
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Negotiator
Banned
Just imagine if Sony initially wanted to have 16GB GDDR6, but at the very last minute they bump it up to 32GB... I would relish the ERA/GAF meltdowns.
Tqaulity
Member
TrueJust imagine if Sony initially wanted to have 16GB GDDR6, but at the very last minute they bump it up to 32GB... I would relish the ERA/GAF meltdowns.
. I think 24GB is the target but I would not be surprised if at least 1 of the console manufactures pushed it to 32GB. I would however be completed shocked and disappointed if either settled on 16GB. But all indications point to that not being the case so I'm optimistic
FrostyJ93
Member
I mean MS.has understood that while people love to play halo, gears, forza etc they realize people do not always prefer their hardware. Basically they want to treat users of a dofferent platform as what they are: paying customers.
So get used to this new "xbox as a service attitude." Sony won't take it as far but they're opening up to it as well. Expect a PS Now mobile app to launch next year I say.
So get used to this new "xbox as a service attitude." Sony won't take it as far but they're opening up to it as well. Expect a PS Now mobile app to launch next year I say.
demigod
Member
Stop pretending to be in the industry or have sources. You're a nobody dude. I like how you single out "Sony bois" when both systems will have over 10TF according to a real insider. Which banned xbox account are you?
Imtjnotu
Member
$600Just imagine if Sony initially wanted to have 16GB GDDR6, but at the very last minute they bump it up to 32GB... I would relish the ERA/GAF meltdowns.
Negotiator
Banned
BoM? Maybe. The MSRP is not going to exceed $499.
Negotiator
Banned
Mark your calendars:
web.archive.org
It's like a console-only user entering a PCMR thread just for drive-by posting...
We're not signing up PC-only users, especially when they justify price gouging.
Seriously, what's your agenda in a console-related thread? "Sony bois" and stuff like that seems like drive-by trolling to me.
Ps5 2020 infos - Pastebin.com
Sometimes I'm wondering what are you doing in this thread, since you're not interested in consoles (correct me if I'm wrong).
It's like a console-only user entering a PCMR thread just for drive-by posting...
BoM cost:
We're not signing up PC-only users, especially when they justify price gouging.
Seriously, what's your agenda in a console-related thread? "Sony bois" and stuff like that seems like drive-by trolling to me.
FrostyJ93
Member
Mark your calendars:
Ps5 2020 infos - Pastebin.com
Sometimes I'm wondering what are you doing in this thread, since you're not interested in consoles (correct me if I'm wrong).
It's like a console-only user entering a PCMR thread just for drive-by posting...
BoM cost:
We're not signing up PC-only users, especially when they justify price gouging.
Seriously, what's your agenda in a console-related thread? "Sony bois" and stuff like that seems like drive-by trolling to me.
User also said Nov. 6th for scarlett, $500 for both.
Probable first/second party launch day games for both:
PS5: GT7, Horizon 2 or Demon Souls, Predator: Hunting Grounds, Ghost of Tsushima
Scarlett: Halo Infinite, Battletoads, AoE4, 2nd party publishing deal
VFXVeteran
Banned
The hardware is already made. You can't take what will come out and think they can turn around the hardware in short order. Their card was chosen long ago.
Gamernyc78
Banned
Mark your calendars:
Ps5 2020 infos - Pastebin.com
Sometimes I'm wondering what are you doing in this thread, since you're not interested in consoles (correct me if I'm wrong).
It's like a console-only user entering a PCMR thread just for drive-by posting...
BoM cost:
We're not signing up PC-only users, especially when they justify price gouging.
Seriously, what's your agenda in a console-related thread? "Sony bois" and stuff like that seems like drive-by trolling to me.
Gran turismo 7 if true for launch has me happy asf and I cant wait bcus I know that'll be a graphical show piece and infinite replayability. 450 to 500 price I knew it would be and dropping in November yesssss I'm literally going to take off tht whole week anyway bcus of Thanksgiving.
VFXVeteran
Banned
I very seriously doubt it.
VFXVeteran
Banned
It's NOT logical to think that AMD's GPU chip was only chosen early this year. That's your flaw. Take yourself back before the 5700XT and see what the choices were. Also, hardware ray-tracing has NEVER been described. It could be that the API/shader just implements ray-casting in hardware. That doesn't mean it has special chips like Turing. Anothing thing, even if it did, it would be even more expensive to have it equal the 5700XT. You guys are all trying to make guesses with what hasn't come out yet and basing your assumptions on the latest that comes out. The architecture for the PS5 has BEEN chosen a long time ago.
bitbydeath
Member
Do you live in the future? Of course the hardware isn't already made yet.
What year are you living in?
Kazekage1981
Member
Zen3 will most likely not make it in hardware specs am I rite? I mean, developers have alpha, beta, and gamma kits before the final development kits. So perhaps earlier development kits feature zen 2, rdna 1 with ray tracing, and the final hardware and development kit *might* feature zen 3 with rdna 2 with ray tracing?
I know, I know, they have planned and sealed the specs years in advance and is very unlikely...
I know, I know, they have planned and sealed the specs years in advance and is very unlikely...
VFXVeteran
Banned
I don't care about everyone on here thinks. I'm not declaring myself the sooth-sayer. If I am told misinformation, so be it. All I know is that people went through this same exact thing before the PS4/Xbox came out and they all got butt hurt because the consoles weren't strong enough. It led to a mid-gen refresh. So if anything THEY let you down. Not me. If you got stung the first time, why are you putting so much hope into it not happening again? Your expectations are way too high. You gotta come down into reality on something! Everything can't be stellar in that box for $500.
bitbydeath
Member
The problem is you keep spreading misinformation and getting corrected on it.
You should do a better job investigating before posting.
Eg. You didn't even know about coding to the metal. That's very common information in the console space.
nowhat
Member
So wasn't Sony coming up with 8GB of GDDR5 something of a surprise this gen? That forced MS to include that funky ESRAM (which really didn't help to compensate having DDR3 otherwise)?
VFXVeteran
Banned
If you ever read my imdb, you wouldn't be so snide. I do know a LOT of people in both industries. They overlap easily. And I know where I worked in the last 19yrs. I may be nobody to you. But I can guarantee you that I'd get an interview at any of these gaming companies.. it's just that simple. Sony bois are the only ones that think they are MASTER RACE console zealots and feel entitled to superior hardware/games. Sony is going to a game selling model. Get over it.
Kazekage1981
Member
Can there be some sort of ESRAM on top of GDDR6 to boost the bandwidth, so it can be close to HBM2-HBM3 levels? I dont know if it has ever been tried before
VFXVeteran
Banned
I haven't been corrected on anything. And about coding to the metal? When all games are available for consoles and PC, you'll think about that comment.
Negotiator
Banned
8 Signs Someone Has A Superiority Complex, According To Experts
Experts explain the meaning of a superiority complex, and how to tell if someone you know has one.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
8 Signs Someone Has A Superiority Complex, According To Experts
Experts explain the meaning of a superiority complex, and how to tell if someone you know has one.www.bustle.com
I'm a fighter. I'll ALWAYS defend myself when attacked personally. Plain and simple. It has nothing to do with superiority. More like confidence.
bitbydeath
Member
I haven't been corrected on anything. And about coding to the metal? When all games are available for consoles and PC, you'll think about that comment.
You've been corrected on almost EVERYTHING!
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VFXVeteran
Banned
All these attacks because Sony fans don't want to hear something more realistic than their speculations.. Wow, I like it!
Negotiator
Banned
So that's your agenda on this thread? Being a PCMR warrior/anti-Sony boi fighter?
That's a noble goal, I must say!
VFXVeteran
Banned
Not a single person (who is in the know) has corrected me on PS5/Scarlett specs. I dare them to do it.
Gamernyc78
Banned
So that's your agenda on this thread? Being a PCMR warrior/anti-Sony boi fighter?
That's a noble goal, I must say!
I must not see the convo you guys are having bcus I block all the shill fanboys
Some of these green team warriors are out there 
Microsoft went the safe route for 8gb with DDR3. ESRAM was there to compensate some of the difference in speed. That was not directly forced by Sony's decisions. Sony got more or less lucky that higher density chips got available in masses. They took a gamble and made the right call in the end.
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Negotiator
Banned
Correct. 8GB GDDR5 was still a surprise though:
Crytek wants 8GB of RAM in next-gen consoles
Lol, good one Crytek XD Mock if old =/ German studio Crytek has become the latest developer to start discussing what it would like to see from the next-generation of consoles, saying that 8GBs of RAM should be "a minimum" for the next-gen. "My finger-pointing at Microsoft/Sony would...
It's fun to read 2011 posts, isn't it?
Plenty of 2-4GB lowballers... I wonder where are they now?
nowhat
Member
Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia
nowhat
Member
We'd be less skeptical if you'd post your IMDB page, with something that would validate it really is you.
I question that source if they don't have a forza game for scarlet launch they skipped this year to be ready for fall 2020. Basically best case ever for Sony worse case ever for MS.
FrostyJ93
Member
Klobrille implied no forza next year as well.
Tqaulity
Member
Ok I'll try this:
1. I don't know why you are calling out Sony fans boys when if you look at my posts I have consistently been talking about both next gen consoles. I never singled out Sony or the PS5. To be clear, both next gen consoles will have > 16GB or RAM and both will have GPUs more powerful than a GTX 1080 or 5700 (non-XT). You can book it
2. Regarding your post:
If you have any idea how computer hardware is made and more specifically how video game hardware is developed than you would know (as I do) that I am not suggesting AMD's GPU chips were chosen this year. That's silly. In reality, Sony and Microsoft were meeting with AMD back in 2014 to scope out the next gen consoles and as part of that AMD shared their roadmap for the timeframe they were targeting to launch (2019-2020). Every year, AMD continued to provide updates to both of them on how their roadmap is trending and what hardware will be available in time for the console launches. In other words, WE may not know what is coming out next year exactly in terms of RDNA2 but Sony and Microsoft have know for YEARS. Not only that but their respective chips have already been finalized and are in the final stages of testing currently. All I was pointing out was those chips are targeting the latest and greatest that AMD can product in time for launch. The fact that we know AMD is releasing new GPUs in the same year of the new consoles with features that align with the confirmed information we have on the next gen console specs points to it being feasible that some derivative of those new GPUs are likely what will be included in the next gen boxes. Again, Sony and Microsoft have been developing this chip for years and at this point it's already finalized. We (the public) just don't know what it is...yet. But if you pay attention, you can deduce a lot from the products and information that is available today.
Knock off the console waring. This is a multiplatform thread containing discussions from people with all next-gen hardware interests and preferences.
Nickolaidas
Banned
I'm a die-hard PlayStation fan and I want the new Xbox to be just as powerful as the new PlayStation. Because if it's not, third-party games on the PS5 are going to be lacking because of it.
I don't believe we will go 3 years before a forza game. It won't get released anytime outside fall. I just don't see the scarlet showcase being held off until fall 2021 especially with a GT game out there. Just concede the generation if your only launching with 1 game. The 2 one is indy level other is PC game. The only games that MS has that remotely compete with Sony are the forza games one needs to be there launch day. Preferably horizon since that arguably surpassed GT in several areas playground is the premier MS development team right now.
bitbydeath
Member
They're both using AMD and have both stated the same features. Their might be a difference either side but I doubt it'd be much worth mentioning.
Kazekage1981
Member
I think the differences between PS5 vs Scarlett in terms of RAW specs will be negligible. 5%-10% (unless by some miracle they make drastic upgrades to the already announced generalized specs). The main differences in consumers choosing a console of their choice will be (in no particular order):
1. Games, exclusive content
2. Services, ecosystem.
3. Secret Sauce-customizations, hardware and software specific functions
Point 1: I think Phil Spencer made it pretty clear, that Scarlett will not make the mistakes of the past, so this gives Microsoft a wonderful opportunity to reconcile its past (although Japan is a lost cause).
Point 2: I think the upcomming generation will make PS5 and Scarlett pretty neck to neck, and will not create the disparity and fragmentation of the current and past generation.
Point 3: 2020 will be a great year to be a gamer.
Point 4: I am saving up to buy both consoles and enjoy the best of both worlds.
1. Games, exclusive content
2. Services, ecosystem.
3. Secret Sauce-customizations, hardware and software specific functions
Point 1: I think Phil Spencer made it pretty clear, that Scarlett will not make the mistakes of the past, so this gives Microsoft a wonderful opportunity to reconcile its past (although Japan is a lost cause).
Point 2: I think the upcomming generation will make PS5 and Scarlett pretty neck to neck, and will not create the disparity and fragmentation of the current and past generation.
Point 3: 2020 will be a great year to be a gamer.
Point 4: I am saving up to buy both consoles and enjoy the best of both worlds.
ResilientBanana
Member
No. No one has any idea.
BattleScar
Member
???????
I don't recall ever saying they could turn the hardware around in such short notice.
I'm just saying that expecting performance that exceeds a base GTX1080 based on current information, is not unreasonable.
Anyway, you say you have people in the know. So what are your expectations? We know that the consoles will have 8/16 Zen 2 cores/threads at a moderate clock for maximum power efficiency and all this will take up at most 70 square millimetres. So how big do you expect the GPU to be? How many compute units? How many shaders? What's the clockspeed?
Komachi_Ensaka; a well known and reliable dataminer, found evidence of a chip by the name of Oberon which had "backwards compatibility modes" at ~900MHz and ~1100MHz and another setting at 2000MHz. The former two conveniently matched exactly with the clocks of the base PS4 and PS4 Pro GPUs, respectively. Assuming previous datamining which implied console APUs being based on the 40CU Navi 10, would put the chips at a minimum of 9 TFLOPs (36 active CUs, for redundancy) all the way up to 10 TFLOPs. The former would easily outpace a GTX 1080, while the latter (assuming sufficient bandwidth) would get uncomfortably close to a 1080ti/2080 - maybe within 5-10%.
So what information do you have? What do you know the peak theoretical compute performance to be? How many CUs/how many FP32 shaders?
Surely your information must be more accurate and specific than what has been datamined so far...
MrRenegade
Banned
Even John Carmack said multiple times back then that when a console gets its release, the PC GPUs are already much stronger. Consoles are around 1 generation behind current trends.
It will not be cutting edge tech. It will be an optimised behindgen thingy for consoles. It will be, because cutting edge is always risky. What if yields are shit? Well, that would kick the nextgen console supply in the balls. And nobody wants that.
VFXVeteran
Banned
We'd be less skeptical if you'd post your IMDB page, with something that would validate it really is you.
I already did. Look up my posts.
MrRenegade
Banned
The difference was always negligible. People buy consoles because of good exclusive games. Everything else are just crumbs. Xbox is dead... died long ago. Management is shit @ MS and they have zero exclusives.
Red_Driver85
Member
Can I find out what this statement is based on? I often saw that you write something similar at every opportunity. Do you have any serious sources? Because, if not, it looks like naive fantasies from the depths of your smoking thoughts. Logically, it makes no sense for Sony to release their games from internal studios on a PC, they need to sell their platform and services - this is the main task. And no, Sony is not Microsoft, because for them Playstation is their main brand and their most profitable business. It is possible that some small games will appear, Dreams for example. Because such games can expand the community of people creating something unique. You say that times are changing. Yes, of course they are changing, and the dependence of platforms on content becomes even more obvious. And high-quality exclusive content is valued more strongly - this is what attracts the player, inciting to buy a console.
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