Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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People bought into the delay theory when Sony has dev kits all over the place?
to be fair, the PS3 was also delayed even tho there were some dev kits out.
but back then it was an issue with the production of the BD lasers (I think) and this time around they use the same source so in such an instance both would need to delay
 
Yeah 37 here and still love gaming.

You gotta teach DSP how to do this. He's desperate for it d00d.

That's the xboxmilgrau guy who finds it funny saying derogatory things about japanese people and laughs about the H-Bomb that was dropped on hiroshima

Sounds like his parents dropped a Duke controller on his head when he was born

hope this dude's early 20s or younger but I somehow doubt it
 
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Yes! I said this same exact thing to my wife when we were discussing where to watch the Superbowl.

I wonder how much a lengthy Superbowl commercial would cost them vs an event like e3 though.

For every 30 secs, it would be $5M-$6M. So, if they just did a 30 sec to 1 min ad, it would be much cheaper than a full E3 conference. And be watched by 100M or more people.
 
People bought into the delay theory when Sony has dev kits all over the place?
If we listened to devs we'd believe
1, PS5 is very powerful
2, More Publishers are making PS5 games
3, PS5 is easier to develop for then PS4

Obviously this can't be true
 
Not to make everyone panic, but we could quite well see all consoles being delayed. Currently fabrication plants in china are being closed down thanks to the coronavirus. Dont know how many or what ones but this could quite well see the consoles pushed into 2021.
 
Not to make everyone panic, but we could quite well see all consoles being delayed. Currently fabrication plants in china are being closed down thanks to the coronavirus. Dont know how many or what ones but this could quite well see the consoles pushed into 2021.
If a lot of Chinese people need to die for me to play my backlog on ps5 instead of PS4 then that's a sacrifice IM willing to make.

Oh and this is a Shrek reference and a joke. Please don't take it seriously
 
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Not to make everyone panic, but we could quite well see all consoles being delayed. Currently fabrication plants in china are being closed down thanks to the coronavirus. Dont know how many or what ones but this could quite well see the consoles pushed into 2021.

I dont thinks this will happen.
 
I dont thinks this will happen.
It depends if they can contain and keep the virus under control. If they cant china is going to have a severe problem. One that could cause a world wide recession again because every other country relies of china for the manufacturing of its products.
 
People bought into the delay theory when Sony has dev kits all over the place?

Yes. The spamming of gifs, paging albert panello & the excitement over a _rogame tweet.

This summed it up pretty well:
My favourite part of today's development; well, whole month's actually; PS5 is back to 8TF but still costs $499, but somehow Lockheart is 7TF and still remains at $299. It's just magic...love it all.
 
Seems like he read what we were talking here...

I'm sure that when people get through with it, "Replanned" will most certainly be re-translated into the PS5 being a more powerful console.

It really doesn't matter at this point, people will read something and see only what they want to see.
 
It depends if they can contain and keep the virus under control. If they cant china is going to have a severe problem. One that could cause a world wide recession again because every other country relies of china for the manufacturing of its products.

If the virus spreading a long faster that we think.The this is one possible senario
But i bellieve that they control the situation down there.
 
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Not to make everyone panic, but we could quite well see all consoles being delayed. Currently fabrication plants in china are being closed down thanks to the coronavirus. Dont know how many or what ones but this could quite well see the consoles pushed into 2021.
I believe they are in Taiwan.

Edit: never mind, I just read it's there, too.
 
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If a lot of Chinese people need to die for me to play my backlog on ps5 instead of PS4 then that's a sacrifice IM willing to make.

Oh and this is a Shrek reference and a joke. Please don't take it seriously

That's very sharp humor given the circumstances, but I think most people get it. You just have to be aware of how raw some people might be feeling about it at the moment.

Not exactly an example, but we had a couple people talking conspiracies about Kobe Bryant 's death at my job today, and made a lot of people very angry. Seriously, it's just not time for tin-foil crap like that. Let people mourn before you bombard them with that shit.

When you have really serious issues, humor and levity can really be helpful. But it can backfire on you. Be careful 😉
 
That's very sharp humor given the circumstances, but I think most people get it. You just have to be aware of how raw some people might be feeling about it at the moment.

Not exactly an example, but we had a couple people talking conspiracies about Kobe Bryant 's death at my job today, and made a lot of people very angry. Seriously, it's just not time for tin-foil crap like that. Let people mourn before you bombard them with that shit.

When you have really serious issues, humor and levity can really be helpful. But it can backfire on you. Be careful 😉
That's very different. I'm making fun of a selfish attitude someone could potentially have if they get mad about a delay and pointing out how inconsequential it is next to lives being lost.
 
If we listened to devs we'd believe
1, PS5 is very powerful
2, More Publishers are making PS5 games
3, PS5 is easier to develop for then PS4

Obviously this can't be true

Devs themselves have not come out and say any of this; it's been people at Sony (Shu) and insiders who have supposedly talked to devs who have said these things. And as mentioned before, "devs" can mean almost anyone; at big companies you have A-teams, B-teams, C-teams etc. and I doubt any insiders have spoken with actual heads of major teams at the major dev studios.

Devs wouldn't come out saying this type of stuff that early, especially in absence of similar or comparative mentions of direct competition, because the absence of those mentions would imply unsavory stuff that could strain business partnership opportunities with said competition. If you want a perfect example of this look at Jonathan Blow's bit in his stream a few weeks ago and how that was interpreted. And we already know where he falls in the preference pile in terms of development (over possible backstage business issues years ago).

Basically all I'm saying is devs aren't stupid enough to come right out singing praises for either of the new systems this early, but ESPECIALLY aren't stupid enough to sing the praises of one and imply disfavor with the other or flat-out bad mouth it, this early on, knowing that could screw up future business deals with the other. Closest we've really seen devs outright bad-mouthing new consoles at start of a gen was certain Western devs being publicly negative on the Saturn before and during its launch window, directly in comparative contrast to PS1. And they arguably didn't risk terribly much because Sony's financial status would've recouped most damages they made between themselves and SEGA at the time.

That's the only notable time it's really happened before a new console gen or during the first year or so of new major console launches (I'm not counting stuff like 32X, which was an add-on, or Jaguar, which most were not taking as a serious potential competitor during its gen (5th gen), even leading up to the launch).
 
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In the real world 9v12 isnt close. But how was originsl x1 (40% difference) framed by insiders and media? Further the fact Oberon was still being tested in summer of 2019....

8-9 TF looks insane now, but when work began in 2015, MS had been coasting since 2011 and Nintendo was not a threat...so he are two alternate ps5 timelines.

worst timeline for ps5 hardware:
In 2015, sony was closing studios, keeping dev count absolutely minimal, and not addressing genre deficiencies. They were milking PS. Given that set of circumstances, and a huge does of hubris, they tell Cerny to target nothing more,than a ps4 type good-enough-break-even console. Cerney tells AMD to make a suitable apu for a break even $399 box.

then, as 2018 progresses, MS starts dumping cash into gaming; Google begins making moves; and even Nintendo starts tearing things up. Suddenly, competition is an order of magnitude greater. Sony becomes very concerned about how PS had been managed, and initiates firings and a big management shuffle.

They have much regret that during 2013-2018, PS did not solidify their portfolio via acquisition, studio expansions, and addressing their genre deficiencies—rather than what they did do: reduce studio count and focus on sport and 3rd person action story games made by tiny teams. They also regret their directive to make a cheapo ps5 apu.

in 2018, they realise the mistakes and begin to scramble. on the hardware front that means adding things they can add (super fast 2TB ssd and nice quiet cooling) and and doing their best with Oberon. But a radical redesign of an apu takes 2+ years, and the only company that can do it in less time is Apple. So they make do.

Sony has a 20 minute State of Play in Feb where nothing concrete is revealed about ps5 except for ssd speeds. A second launch state of play occurs after E3 that reveals an anaemic launch lineup and more ssd numbers. Actual numbers and specs only get revealed after launch in Nov., that work being done by the public.

playstation fans boo.

best Timeline for ps5 hardware

Sony management, being very happy with Cerny's ps4, gives him a nearly free hand with ps5 in 2015, saying to him 'we'll eat up to $159' per launch console.

Cerny decides to invest in cool technologies we haven't seen yet, and tells AMD to pull out all the stops in making a $650 BOM 2020 console. They staff up on software engineers and make a killer OS and fantastic dev tools.

Amd delivers the first chiplet console with 72 CUs (dual gpu), ray tracing, and their newest zen tech.

sony fans cheer wildly at February 29 reveal of the new 13+ TF $650 BOM console, preorders for $499 up now.
As outsiders looking in we can only speculate about what is going on behind the scenes but I think it's a combination of the two scenarios you've painted here. Lets keep in mind back in 2015-16 Microsoft almost canceled Xbox altogether. Zhuge x had a tweet about it. So Sony being the market leader and all just decided to coast on third parties to carry the day. Fortunately for them they also happened to have an already big first party. And because of Microsoft seeming headed for the exits didn't feel the need to expand their first party much. On the contrary they closed 2-3 studios.

Then e3 2018, Xbox is back. Now, we don't have any idea how well funded Xbox is now, I think people exaggerate, but they are at least back to competitive 360 days in my estimation. Some of the smarter heads at Sony realized this and decided change was necessary. John kodera was pushed aside for jim Ryan who seems like an assertive guy. Layden was pushed out for whatever reason. Perhaps he was viewed as too complacent or Sony really wanted to put first pet titles on pc and he was against that. Who knows but there was behind the scenes drama.

All the meanwhile next generation is looming. Fortunately they Cerny again. It does sound like 2019 was the real date for the Ps5 but due to technology not being ready/affordable enough and rumors of Microsoft making a comeback and wanting a really powerful console plans were put on hold. With all that said no insider has claimed Sony is behind or playing catch up. But it does seem like to me like 2015 to 2017 Sony perhaps underestimated Microsoft attempting a come back and Nintendo's recent success.

Edit: One thing that lends credence to the whole changing the Ps5 in 2019 rumor is late 2018 and early 2019 we would get a new article a day about how Microsoft is set to dominate next gen. Then the wired article came out in April where Sony confirmed the cpu and ssd but played coy with the gpu, which almost a year later they still are. I think one of the reasons Xbox pr was so confident based off of these puff piece articles is that they thought Sony was planning on launching a half step ps4.5 in 2019. I do genuinely believe the Ryzen cpu and ssd announcement came As a surprise to them. It was e3 2019 where we heard lockheart was cancelled which says to me the "sandwich" strategy was no longer variable. For whatever reason lockheart may well be back in the cards about I do believe Sony made big changes to the Ps5 early 2019.
 
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Lol MS was never considering cancelling the Xbox division. If this were actually something they considered in 2015-2016, why is there only a single tweet from one person that can be referenced? Rumors that big with some bit of substance to them, would be getting reported on by everyone. Tons of journalists, Youtubers, IGN, Wired, Gamasutra, WCC, Forbes etc.

That should probably indicate there wasn't much smoke to that rumor, so no fire. But yeah, they were in a shitty place at that time and needed to rethink a lot of things.
 
What are the chances of getting Ryzen 7 4700U or Ryzen 7 4800U in next gen consoles ? they are both 8 core CPUs
and U series is cheaper Than H series
 
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Lol MS was never considering cancelling the Xbox division. If this were actually something they considered in 2015-2016, why is there only a single tweet from one person that can be referenced? Rumors that big with some bit of substance to them, would be getting reported on by everyone. Tons of journalists, Youtubers, IGN, Wired, Gamasutra, WCC, Forbes etc.

That should probably indicate there wasn't much smoke to that rumor, so no fire. But yeah, they were in a shitty place at that time and needed to rethink a lot of things.
I would not be so sure around those days the xbox division had almost zero budget to do anything and down to just a few studios. Think about when Phil was taking over everything was on the cheap like the backwards compatibility program dirt cheap. Might of not been canceled then and there but the xbox one being the last console from MS I absolutely believe was on the table until Phil sold the board on the gamepass model. If the series x,s and gamepass fail I believe it will be lights out for the xbox division for hardware and software right after that with no hardware gamespass does not work and the studios are sold off that might have value like playground.
 
I would not be so sure around those days the xbox division had almost zero budget to do anything and down to just a few studios. Think about when Phil was taking over everything was on the cheap like the backwards compatibility program dirt cheap. Might of not been canceled then and there but the xbox one being the last console from MS I absolutely believe was on the table until Phil sold the board on the gamepass model. If the series x,s and gamepass fail I believe it will be lights out for the xbox division for hardware and software right after that with no hardware gamespass does not work and the studios are sold off that might have value like playground.

Anything's possible, but scaling back on budget isn't really the same thing as a division being cancelled altogether, imho. If that's the case, just outright cancel the division and shutter it. You can say that was MS was doing with Xbox during those years is essentially what Japanese companies do with senior employees who screw up; they don't fire them or kick them to the curb, but just shove menial tasks on them and keep them around to save face. Plus there were probably financial reasons to still keep the division open.

2015-2016 period seemed like the time MS were rethinking their approach with Xbox as a business imho, but I don't think that ever included the idea of shutting it down. They couldn't keep trying the same stuff they tried beforehand with things like TitanFall and Sunset Overdrive, and that's probably when they (MS) also realized how bad their positioning was in markets outside of US and UK. And we've been seeing drips of that introspection since 2017, hopefully with a waterfall of those results starting up later this year when the new consoles launch.

And again, anything's possible. If MS's efforts fail again, yeah I can see them leaving hardware. Could say the same about Sony depending on how bad PS does (but it'd have to do noticeably worst than PS3 and I don't see that happening, at least right now). Only Nintendo would probably stick through in light of a monumental failure, since hardware is so fundamental to their brand and their bottom line. At the same time, I don't WANT anyone to fold their hands in the console game, because every time it happens, the industry loses a little bit of vision and never quite recaptures what those specific players brought. Atari, SEGA (biggest departures as console makers), SNK, NEC etc. They all brought something interesting and fun to the industry and in spirit with what gaming is about and should be about.

If MS or Sony were to leave, who would replace them? Apple? Samsung? Google? And can we really say those companies would even be a suitable replacement for the either of them? God forbid Nintendo ever left hardware, that'd probably be the day gaming as a hobby dies for at least half of gamers everywhere (myself too, most likely).
 
Not to make everyone panic, but we could quite well see all consoles being delayed. Currently fabrication plants in china are being closed down thanks to the coronavirus. Dont know how many or what ones but this could quite well see the consoles pushed into 2021.

While it is possible to see delays related to something like this virus. If it does happen, let's try to keep in mind the horrible reasons why and understand the suffering for those infected. If you are the sort selfish enough to be bothered that you can't get your new game console immediately in that circumstance, I speak only for myself when I say, politely, fuck off.
 
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I would not be so sure around those days the xbox division had almost zero budget to do anything and down to just a few studios. Think about when Phil was taking over everything was on the cheap like the backwards compatibility program dirt cheap. Might of not been canceled then and there but the xbox one being the last console from MS I absolutely believe was on the table until Phil sold the board on the gamepass model. If the series x,s and gamepass fail I believe it will be lights out for the xbox division for hardware and software right after that with no hardware gamespass does not work and the studios are sold off that might have value like playground.

i think they absolutely plan on going hardware-less....as they should. Streaming is 100% the future and they already have the infrastructure. Its a massive competitive advantage they have and should absolutely pursue it.

Dont be shocked if streaming takes over hardware the gen after this upcoming one. If Sony is smart then they will be looking to go hardware-less in the near future
 
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i think they absolutely plan on going hardware-less....as they should. Streaming is 100% the future and they already have the infrastructure. Its a massive competitive advantage they have and should absolutely pursue it.

Dont be shocked if streaming takes over hardware the gen after this upcoming one. If Sony is smart then they will be looking to go hardware-less in the near future

I still don't think this is the case. Much of the United States deals with data caps or throttling for high data use from Internet Service Providers. This could make it harder for large parts of the U.S. to handle a mostly or completely digital model. Unless that changes, I can't see them ever being able to embrace digital for streaming or otherwise as the main method gaming happens on a system.
 
i think they absolutely plan on going hardware-less....as they should. Streaming is 100% the future and they already have the infrastructure. Its a massive competitive advantage they have and should absolutely pursue it.

Dont be shocked if streaming takes over hardware the gen after this upcoming one. If Sony is smart then they will be looking to go hardware-less in the near future
That's what people said at the beginning of this gen. If data caps went away and internet got better in the states I'm all for it
 
That's what people said at the beginning of this gen. If data caps went away and internet got better in the states I'm all for it
I think lots of people outside the good areas forget how bad the internet is in a lot of the usa between caps and shit speeds in most rural areas. Streaming is a nice tool to have to supplement a ecosystem when on the road but hardly ready to be the front end at least here. That and local is best even Phil says it.
 
I think lots of people outside the good areas forget how bad the internet is in a lot of the usa between caps and shit speeds in most rural areas. Streaming is a nice tool to have to supplement a ecosystem when on the road but hardly ready to be the front end at least here. That and local is best even Phil says it.
Yep. I think mine is around 30mb/s

It's BARELY good enough for 4k video. Not anywhere near good enough for gaming and I'm on Ethernet. So many people online use freaking WiFi and drop constantly
 
Man I thought this thread was the worst when it came to stupid arguments. That was until I saw the Console Racing Sim Thread. Noped right the eff out of there.

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Am I alone in the team of I dont care if the consoles get delayed and release later in the best possible form? (I don't think they're going to be delayed btw)
 
Man I thought this thread was the worst when it came to stupid arguments. That was until I saw the Console Racing Sim Thread. Noped right the eff out of there.

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Am I alone in the team of I dont care if the consoles get delayed and release later in the best possible form? (I don't think they're going to be delayed btw)

If the delay was to significantly increase power within a reasonable time frame after when release was supposed to be, I'm good with that. If it's due to unforeseen circumstances, I'm good with that. If it's barely a change, screw that. Just release it and deal with the outcome.
 
at this point, we get a reveal when we get a reveal. We get the specs when we get the specs.

Just give me fucking TLOU 2 now
 
If the delay was to significantly increase power within a reasonable time frame after when release was supposed to be, I'm good with that. If it's due to unforeseen circumstances, I'm good with that. If it's barely a change, screw that. Just release it and deal with the outcome.
I actually prefer a wild west console launch provided nobody gets screwed with warranties and such. The Goku method of fighting with wreckless abandon vs the safe and boring Gohan approach
 
I found this Albert Penello post interesting from Resetera interesting. Someone asked himif it would be more cost effective to maximize a 36 cu chip or just design a new one.

If I understand the question posed, the idea is if it's cheaper to run an existing chip at a higher spec (therefore having less usable parts) to hit a performance target (say 10 TFLOPS) vs. building a new chip from scratch that has overhead to disable CU's to also get to 10 TFLOPS?

Is that the gist?

This is a super interesting question I'll have to think about it. There are a lot of variables at play, not the least of which is - when is this decision being made?

In general, the answer would doubtless be to build the right chip. Getting good yields and having overhead is going to be the most cost effective in the long run. That said, the sunk costs for a whole new chip development are, like, A LOT. So you don't want to do that twice.

But really it's sort of unanswerable without a lot more information. I think it really comes down to how much the yields are impacted and how the longevity of the good chips are affected. I've said before that +/- 10% is a good rule of thumb where you could consider the performance increases vs. the yield implications to be tolerable.

At the risk of beating a dead horse (since I've said this often), I also need to point out the case and cooling design limitations. You can can crank the silicon all the way up until you only have 1 good chip off the wafer, but if you can't cool it once it's in the console, it's no good. So that's a limiting factor in this as well.

(QUICK EDIT: Remember that the cost of throwing away bad chips goes up at a faster rate then the number of bad chips. So if you were expecting 90% yields, removing 20% more chips is ~30% more expensive per chip. Removing 30% more chips makes each chip 50% more expensive, and so on)

if sony is trying to maximise oberon or they decided to scrap it summer of 2019 and make a new chip....well someone fucked up royally. Of course maybe oberon is sony's lockhart. Or 1/2 of a dual set up. Or a rejected chip and they are scrambling to build a 13tf one. Or they had two design teams making two separate products, or, or, or....

Such a good mystery, cant wait to see how it turns out.
 
I found this Albert Penello post interesting from Resetera interesting. Someone asked himif it would be more cost effective to maximize a 36 cu chip or just design a new one.



if sony is trying to maximise oberon or they decided to scrap it summer of 2019 and make a new chip....well someone fucked up royally. Of course maybe oberon is sony's lockhart. Or 1/2 of a dual set up. Or a rejected chip and they are scrambling to build a 13tf one. Or they had two design teams making two separate products, or, or, or....

Such a good mystery, cant wait to see how it turns out.
Panello saying 8-9TFs makes me strong believe in 11-12TFs.

No next gen chip will be lower than 350mm2 that fits way more than 40CUs even with RT.

He failed in not giving up 30% this gen andhe is failing in thinking to have any ideia of next-gen console chips.
 
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i think they absolutely plan on going hardware-less....as they should. Streaming is 100% the future and they already have the infrastructure. Its a massive competitive advantage they have and should absolutely pursue it.

Dont be shocked if streaming takes over hardware the gen after this upcoming one. If Sony is smart then they will be looking to go hardware-less in the near future

Not at this house it isn't! Not just because of my internet.... but also because I didn't spend 2500 dollars on a TV to feed it trash signals. We're talking about hyper bandwidth HDMI 2.1 and perfect blacks and Dolby Vision over here and you guys want to crap all over my crystal clear video signal? Over my dead body. It's an additional option for some, not a forced replacement for everyone.
 
What if PS5:

PS5's GPU {
2x PS4 Pro Overclocked GPUs + a RT engine?
10 TFlops + 2.5 TFlops RT processor.}

+ Nextgen CPU
+ Nextgen SSG ready SSD
+ 16 HBM2 Ram
+ 8 DDR"3" (2GB SSD Cache e 6GB OS and Apps)

Not an insider, just a guess.
 
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What if PS5:

PS5's GPU {
2x PS4 Pro Overclocked GPUs + a RT engine?
10 TFlops + 2.5 TFlops RT processor.}

+ Nextgen CPU
+ Nextgen SSG ready SSD
+ 16 HBM2 Ram
+ 8 DDR"3" (2GB SSD Cache e 6GB OS and Apps)

Not an insider, just a guess.
Maybe it comes with a PS6 expansion slot and the controller is a ps vita2
 
What if PS5:

PS5's GPU {
2x PS4 Pro Overclocked GPUs + a RT engine?
10 TFlops + 2.5 TFlops RT processor.}

+ Nextgen CPU
+ Nextgen SSG ready SSD
+ 16 HBM2 Ram
+ 8 DDR"3" (2GB SSD Cache e 6GB OS and Apps)

Not an insider, just a guess.
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