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[JAMMA]

This forum and moderation is bias in favor of Sony Playstation fans ***at all times***. This IS SonyGAF.

If you're not a Sony fanboy, do yourself a favor and enjoy gaming talk elsewhere where it's not skewed by pseudo moderation. NeoGAF IS unfortunately a Playstation fanboy forum and you will be negatively targeted if you enjoy Xbox. You WILL be attacked by PS fanboys and PS fanboy moderation.

I hope that everyone can find a new place besides here where they can enjoy gaming talk or discussions in peace without being wrongly and negatively targeted if they're not a PS fanboy.

I feel sorry for all of you that unfortunately found their way to this place, but sadly it is simply the way that it is here.

Get out now while you still can, otherwise I wish you all the best of luck.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

It depends on what region you'r from & how much you paid for them, whats your 3300$ PC specs ?

-The ROG Crosshair VII Hero (WiFi).
-Ryzen 7 2700x.
-Radeon VII.
-32GB (16x2) DRR4 3200Mhz G.SKILL TridentZ.
-1TB 970 PRO NVMe. m.2.
-2TB WD SSD.
-Corsair AX860i power supply.
-InWin 101c case.
-6x InWin Polaris 120mm fans.
-Windows 10 Pro ($252 USD).
+Shipping costs.

Why Radeon VII and not RTX2080?

16GB vs 8GB
1024GB/s vs 445GB/s bandwith
HBM2 vs GDRR6

0% gaming so far (might consider gaming if something interesting enough from xbox or for Star Citizen), video/photo editing is the main purpose. If PC gaming was my main goal I would be with team (If you think consoles>PC then you're stupid as F)

 

[sinnergy]

Looks like you already chose to believe GitHub leaks are fact even though everyone else is saying they are practically equal. Ok, you're entitled to that.

Who is everyone ? Insiders here ? They know nothing,, just like us .. but that github data is real and the most real stuff we have ... instead of I heard this and that ..

 

[Sussoloc]

Price and games will always be more important than power.

Price of course big time, but games not that much. Casuals mostly don't care about exclusive games and they dominate the market. Every PS4 owner bought i think it was like 12 games and about just one of them was an exclusive game and nobody knows how many of those were just almost free bundle copies.

I would say exclusive games mostly matter for core gamers, but so does power.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Incorrect, that extra 15% is considered huge in Japan.

xbox and japan. lol you are delusional . you need to lay down the pipe man . xbox will be even more irrelevant next gen if thats even possible. you like Japanese games? you get Nintendo or PS. thast all . otherwise you suffer and become delusional.even PS is becoming niche there lol

 

[SportsFan581]

Probably both are using the Radeon VII die as a platform for that? Explains the HBM2 rumors (even though if it ends up being GDDR6) and why Radeon VII has been discontinued quite early?

Spoiler: Source

My Ass

 

[Gudji]

Who is everyone ? Insiders here ? They know nothing,, just like us .. but that github data is real and the most real stuff we have ... instead of I heard this and that ..

Matt and Jason comments are also very real.
If you choose not to believe Matt - foolish imo, he's rarely wrong - then we can always go with Jason Schreier, his track record speaks for himself.
He said someone told him to expect GPU performance for both consoles above RTX 2080 performance level.
A PS5 with 9.2 TF does not fit the description of Jason, that would put it closer to a RTX 2070 super performance.

 

[Rim]

Price of course big time, but games not that much. Casuals mostly don't care about exclusive games and thy dominate the market. Every PS4 owner bought i think it was like 12 games and about just one of them was an exclusive game and nobody knows how many of those were just almost "free" bundle copies.

I would say exclusive games mostly matter for core gamers, but so does power.

The Switch alone is being sold with their exclusives.
Tons of first party games from sony sold over 10m copies.

Exclusives will always sell consoles.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Correct, but most those games weren't first party. Phil said he's working for a better relationship with Japanese 3rd party devs next gen.

Either way the new PSVR will be awesome and XSX will not have any VR support in the foreseeable future.

You on first name terms with him now? That salesman has been saying the same shit about making a closer relationship with Japanese devs for 3-4 years now seriously. It will lead to precisely very little or nothing as usual, it just gets keeps the fanboys on tenterhooks and hopeful for something that will never come.

Xbox sells a literal 100 units a week in Japan, PS4 does 15K and Switch 50K.

 

[Sussoloc]

The Switch alone is being sold with their exclusives.
Tons of first party games from sony sold over 10m copies.

Exclusives will always sell consoles.

Exclusives sell Nintendo consoles, 3rd partys sell Sony and MS consoles. In less than half the time and with less than half the user base the Switch already sold more exclusives than Sony.

 

[sonomamashine]

Regarding public opinion, quality games trump power anytime, just look at console history. And I know, PS4 was an exception.

The main reason MS will focus on making a more powerful console is public opinion, i do agree that quality games trump power but the masses don't know that, they just know numbers & statistics, if they go to the store and read the most powerful console in the market, they are sold.

-The ROG Crosshair VII Hero (WiFi).
-Ryzen 7 2700x.
-Radeon VII.
-32GB (16x2) DRR4 3200Mhz G.SKILL TridentZ.
-1TB 970 PRO NVMe. m.2.
-2TB WD SSD.
-Corsair AX860i power supply.
-InWin 101c case.
-6x InWin Polaris 120mm fans.
-Windows 10 Pro ($252 USD).
+Shipping costs.

Why Radeon VII and not RTX2080?

16GB vs 8GB
1024GB/s vs 445GB/s bandwith
HBM2 vs GDRR6

0% gaming so far (might consider gaming if something interesting enough from xbox or for Star Citizen), video/photo editing is the main purpose. If PC gaming was my main goal I would be with team (If you think consoles>PC then you're stupid as F)

you stated that next gen consoles would shit on a 3300$ PC which is not the case at all, might be the case for you but not for everyone else, cause region (overpriced products, your choice of product etc ...)

 

[SportsFan581]

The Switch alone is being sold with their exclusives.
Tons of first party games from sony sold over 10m copies.

Exclusives will always sell consoles.

Nintendo's 1st party attach is extremely impressive.

Sony's, given the size of the base, is just meh. Spiderman did great though.

 

[Rim]

Nintendo's 1st party attach is extremely impressive.

Sony's, given the size of the base, is just meh. Spiderman did great though.

Selling 10m copies is meh?
I can garantee you that 99% of the studios in the world would kill to have those "meh" sales.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I don't think VR is a big game changer. Not even 5% of the PS4 owners got it and it's not really expensive since years.

You start by having VR there, then games will eventually come by. Just like 8K tv's that you barely have enough content outside Japan (they have 8K streaming services), but content will come. Make the plates available so I can serve you my delicious recipes . Half Life might come to PS5 because of that, and that's a big deal.

 

[Rim]

Exclusives sell Nintendo consoles, 3rd partys sell Sony and MS consoles. In less than half the time and with less than half the user base the Switch already sold more exclusives than Sony.

And the reason opt from xbox or ps since the third party are similiar are the exclusives.
And in this gen sone Sony exclusives sold over 10m copies and not even Halo 5 reach that.

 

[SportsFan581]

Selling 10m copies is meh?
I can garantee you that 99% of the studios in the worls would kill to have those "meh" sales.

Ratios and basic math my man, ratios and basic math. Also, I think if you pulled some hard numbers on the % of Sony 1st party that hits 10m, well...

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Yeah that always makes me laugh, like halo 5 is this flop and they should be ashamed for making such an appalling game that sold poorly...

Yet sold 6.6 million copies... in its first WEEK.

I would kill to have that sort of sales figure on a title even over its entire lifetime...

But you know, goal posts and all.

 

[Rim]

Ratios and basic math my man, ratios and basic math. Also, I think if you pulled some hard numbers on the % of Sony 1st party that hits 10m, well...

So you telling me that GTAV sold like shit since it is in 4 different consoles, and on Steam?

Do you know how many Steam users there are?

 

[jasondefaoite]

Just for reference:

PS4 VS XBO = 50% difference
PS4 PRO vs XBOX X = 30% difference
PS5 (10.24 TF) vs XSX (12 TF) = 15% difference

PS4 vs XBO = 40 % difference (1.84 vs 1.31)
PS4P vs X = 42 % (4.2 vs 6.0)

 

[Gavin Stevens]

GTAV has sold over 110 million copies...

That's just...

Fuck a duck...

 

[Sussoloc]

And the reason opt from xbox or ps since the third party are similiar are the exclusives.
And in this gen sone Sony exclusives sold over 10m copies and not even Halo 5 reach that.

Not that impressive if you think of the 110 million hardware base and what extremely huge amounts Sony had to spend for advertisement for those games. Even months after it's release i saw Spiderman commercials on tv. You can't compare any MS game to Sony games. 45 million user base vs 110 million user base + Game Pass that lowers sales numbers. Does not make any sense andt it doesn't matter. COD + Fifa sell much more consoles than Halo or any narrative 3rd person action adventure from Sony together.

 

[SportsFan581]

So you telling me that GTAV sold like shit since it is in 4 different consoles, and on Steam?

Do you know how many Steam users there are?

When you compare attach rates, that's what you are doing. Comparing the size of the base to the sales. Nobody does it better than Nintendo, and it has been that way for a long time.

Active Steam users that purchase $60 games, fewer than you think.

 

[Rim]

Not that impressive if you think of the 110 million hardware base and what extremely huge amounts Sony had to spend for advertisement for those games. You can't compare any MS game to Sony games. 45 million user base vs 110 million user base + Game Pass. Does not make any sense andt it doesn't matter. COD + Fifa sell much more consoles than Halo or any narrative 3rd person action adventure from Sony together.

Selling 10m copies in on hardware is not impressive?
God damm.
For your logic any game on Steam is a flop.

Steam Now Has One Billion Accounts (And 90 Million Active Users)

Valve's digital PC games storefront Steam got its billionth registered user on Sunday, though it has 90 million monthly active users.

variety.com

 

[Insane Metal]

I was hired as one of the private dancers for a party at Mark Cerny's house. As I was scooping up the dollar bills from the floor, I noticed some sheets of paper under the desk.

I pulled them out and noticed it was a piece of mail sent to Mark. It was from his boss. It demanded that he increase the PS5 from 8TF to 14TF. So, it was 8TF at one point.

My g-string got caught on the handle of a drawer as I was getting up, and it opened in front of me. Inside the drawer was a PS5 prototype. It looked exactly like the new Xbox. It was a tower shape, but instead of just being a rectangle, it was in the shape of a 5.

Mark immediately yelled at me and demanded that I leave. I was in a state of disbelief and walked straight into a filing cabinet. It crashed to the ground and popped open. One of the sheets of paper flew out and I could make out some text on it. It said 799.99 US dollars.

Dude.............................. what the fuck lol.





I don't believe it. $799.99 sounds fishy.

 

[JAMMA]

This forum and moderation is bias in favor of Sony Playstation fans ***at all times***. This IS SonyGAF.

If you're not a Sony fanboy, do yourself a favor and enjoy gaming talk elsewhere where it's not skewed by pseudo moderation. NeoGAF IS unfortunately a Playstation fanboy forum and you will be negatively targeted if you enjoy Xbox. You WILL be attacked by PS fanboys and PS fanboy moderation.

I hope that everyone can find a new place besides here where they can enjoy gaming talk or discussions in peace without being wrongly and negatively targeted if they're not a PS fanboy.

I feel sorry for all of you that unfortunately found their way to this place, but sadly it is simply the way that it is here.

Get out now while you still can, otherwise I wish you all the best of luck.

 

[Sussoloc]

Selling 10m copies in on hardware is not impressive?
God damm.
For your logic any game on Steam is a flop.

Steam Now Has One Billion Accounts (And 90 Million Active Users)

Valve's digital PC games storefront Steam got its billionth registered user on Sunday, though it has 90 million monthly active users.

variety.com

It would be damn impressive if the hardware base was like 30 million, but with like 110 million 10 million is less than 10%.

 

[SportsFan581]

*picks up pipe*

Certainly helps with the hopefulness.

 

[Rim]

When you compare attach rates, that's what you are doing. Comparing the size of the base to the sales. Nobody does it better than Nintendo, and it has been that way for a long time.

Active Steam users that purchase $60 games, fewer than you think.

I wanst conparing attach rates, I was saying total sales. You the one that says that selling to 10% is meh.
So by your logic GTA V sold meh numbers

It sold 115m at the end of 2019

90m active Steam users
110m ps4
45 Xbox one
85 xbox 360
85 Ps4

 

[hemo memo]

GTAV has sold over 110 million copies...

That's just...

Fuck a duck...

A cross-gen game.

 

[sonomamashine]

Dude.............................. what the fuck lol.





I don't believe it. $799.99 sounds fishy.

That price is impossible.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

you stated that next gen consoles would shit on a 3300$ PC which is not the case at all, might be the case for you but not for everyone else, cause region (overpriced products, your choice of product etc ...)

I've spent $3300 on my PC less than a year ago, and I'm more than sure both consoles will shit on it. Just deal with it.

But let's start now with a simple one with today's pricing after the price drop for the same older stuff:

-$300 Windows 10.
-$600-800 RTX 2080 (I got Radeon VII for $700, but barely as it was overpriced up to $1400 in March 2019).
-$343 1TB 970 Pro.
-$170 Ryzen 7 2700x
-$231 Crosshair Hero VII
-$100 (16GB only) DDR4 3200Mhz G.Skill Trident Z
-$100 Corsair AX860i power supply
-$70 InWin 101c case
-$63 Xbox controller + adapter.

Total: $1977-2177 and next gen consoles WILL still shit on it!

 

[SportsFan581]

I wanst conparing attach rates, I was saying total sales. You the one that says that selling to 10% is meh.
So by your logic GTA V sold meh numbers

It sold 115m at the end of 2019

90m active Steam users
110m ps4
45 Xbox one
85 xbox 360
85 Ps4

Nah, selling through to over 25% of the base is a solid result no matter how you shake it.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

But let's start now with a simple one with today's pricing after the price drop for the same older stuff:

-$300 Windows 10.
-$600-800 RTX 2080 (I got Radeon VII for $700, but barely as it was overpriced up to $1400 in March 2019).
-$343 1TB 970 Pro.
-$170 Ryzen 7 2700x
-$231 Crosshair Hero VII
-$100 (16GB only) DDR4 3200Mhz G.Skill Trident Z
-$100 Corsair AX860i power supply
-$70 InWin 101c case
-$63 Xbox controller + adapter.

Total: $1977-2177 and next gen consoles WILL still shit on it!

And will melt as I forgot to mention the cooling fans.

 

[Sussoloc]

Nah, selling through to over 25% of the base is a solid result no matter how you shake it.

And we don't even know how many Steam PCs are capable of running it. Definately not all.

 

[Rim]

Nah, selling through to over 25% of the base is a solid result no matter how you shake it.

I'm not finished.

GoG
humble bundle
G2A

 

[hemo memo]

Dude.............................. what the fuck lol.





I don't believe it. $799.99 sounds fishy.

Same. I thought everything about the story is believable except that part.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Yeah that always makes me laugh, like halo 5 is this flop and they should be ashamed for making such an appalling game that sold poorly...

Yet sold 6.6 million copies... in its first WEEK.

I would kill to have that sort of sales figure on a title even over its entire lifetime...

But you know, goal posts and all.

Those are "starvation" sales. When you get nothing for too long you'll eat A LOT even if the food tastes like shit. (Sorry with the food examples, I'm pretty hungry at the moment)

 

[JAMMA]

This forum and moderation is bias in favor of Sony Playstation fans ***at all times***. This IS SonyGAF.

If you're not a Sony fanboy, do yourself a favor and enjoy gaming talk elsewhere where it's not skewed by pseudo moderation. NeoGAF IS unfortunately a Playstation fanboy forum and you will be negatively targeted if you enjoy Xbox. You WILL be attacked by PS fanboys and PS fanboy moderation.

I hope that everyone can find a new place besides here where they can enjoy gaming talk or discussions in peace without being wrongly and negatively targeted if they're not a PS fanboy.

I feel sorry for all of you that unfortunately found their way to this place, but sadly it is simply the way that it is here.

Get out now while you still can, otherwise I wish you all the best of luck.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Those are "starvation" sales. When you get nothing for too long you'll ear A LOT even if the food tastes like shit. (Sorry with the food examples, I'm pretty hungry at the moment)

So first week sales of six and a half million are bad? Starvation, because they have nothing else? What about the oth.......

Ohh no, no no no, I'm not going down this road again, good day to you sir

 

[SportsFan581]

I'm not finished.

GoG
humble bundle
G2A

You're right, in real metrics the sales were way greater than 25%. PS3/360 were dead men walking by the time GTA5 released, sales there are not what they would have been if the release was a few years prior.

 

[jasondefaoite]

When you compare attach rates, that's what you are doing. Comparing the size of the base to the sales. Nobody does it better than Nintendo, and it has been that way for a long time.

Switch attach rate ... 5.92
3DS attach rate ... 5.05
WiiU attach rate ... 7.60

Source ... Nintendo Dec 2019 ... https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/hard_soft/

PS4 attach rate ... 9.56

Source ... Jan 2019 (so a year old) https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...fter-the-strong-holiday-season-300774260.html

Nintendo hasn't had a decent attach rate since the Wii (9.1)

 

[Bo_Hazem]

So first week sales of six and a half million are bad? Starvation, because they have nothing else? What about the oth.......

Ohh no, no no no, I'm not going down this road again, good day to you sir

In terms of exclusives And let's not forget that Halo was great:

Halo: Combat Evolved Reviews

In a desperate attempt to keep a conquering alien race called the Covenant from finding Earth, you--a cybernteically enhanced soldier representing the peak of human military evolution--and a ragtag group of Marines flee to a distant uncharted system where you unexpectedly stumble across Halo, an...

www.metacritic.com

You get hyped for games with great history to make it right next time.

 

[hemo memo]

Switch attach rate ... 5.92
3DS attach rate ... 5.05
WiiU attach rate ... 7.60

Source ... Nintendo Dec 2019 ... https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/hard_soft/

PS4 attach rate ... 9.56

Source ... Jan 2019 (so a year old) https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...fter-the-strong-holiday-season-300774260.html

Nintendo hasn't had a decent attach rate since the SNES (21).

PS4 is a beast.

 

[DrDamn]

I don't believe it. $799.99 sounds fishy.

It smells fishy, much like the aforementioned g-string.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

This is all well and good but as we really saying what's successful based purely on it being the leader in something?

Surely successful has many metrics? I mean if product A sells 100 million and product B sells 50 million, that doesn't mean product B is a flop.

I know a few teams that would be celebrating night and day having a game sell a few million, even.

 

[SportsFan581]

Switch attach rate ... 5.92
3DS attach rate ... 5.05
WiiU attach rate ... 7.60

Source ... Nintendo Dec 2019 ... https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/hard_soft/

PS4 attach rate ... 9.56

Source ... Jan 2019 (so a year old) https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...fter-the-strong-holiday-season-300774260.html

Nintendo hasn't had a decent attach rate since the SNES (21).

That's general attach, IE all games. Check the numbers on their first-party. They've been doing 10 - 11m (with some consistency) on a base of 50m or so, which is fantastic.

 

[Rim]

You're right, in real metrics the sales were way greater than 25%. PS3/360 were dead men walking by the time GTA5 released, sales there are not what they would have been if the release was a few years prior.

Actually those consoles were at their pique. With higher fanbase than GTA4 had. Btw you can also buy GTAV on...

Instant Gaming
Eneba
Gamivo.com

And many more store. And God damn, the more you think about the shitier GTAV sales were.
Acording to you of course that thinks that attach rate matter more than overral sales.

For the rest of the world, they think GTAV sales were very impressive, no matter how many people were available to.
1 Billion Steam accounts created. I bet the House brothers must be devastated with the bad attach rate.
Might be the reason why one of them left lol

 

[Bo_Hazem]

This is all well and good but as we really saying what's successful based purely on it being the leader in something?

Surely successful has many metrics? I mean if product A sells 100 million and product B sells 50 million, that doesn't mean product B is a flop.

I know a few teams that would be celebrating night and day having a game sell a few million, even.

I might get Halo Infinite though, but for $10 on gamepass for 1 month Time to cook my steak before I throw more food-related examples next.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

I might get Halo Infinite though, but for $10 on gamepass for 1 month Time to cook my steak before I throw more food-related examples next.

Can't argue with steak mate Enjoy!

 

[saintjules]

Out of all the places. This morning I'm getting out of my car at the Speedway for Gas and on the screeen at the pump, a Newscaster is talking about PS5 with the logo to the right of them. Jim Ryan was also shown briefly. By the time I get my phone it was gone Couldn't make out what was being said lol.