Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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OsirisBlack said:
On the hardware side not even upset it puts them in a pretty shit position for the entire generation though. They will be playing catch up and their is no sauce created that can span that gulf. XSeX is definitely more powerful. Also clearing up a bunch of bullshit Ive read PSV does constantly run in boost mode but I don't think that is a good thing. (Own Opinion) Cant imagine sustaining that high a clock speed is going to be quiet after hours of playing anything. Never cared who won will still be getting both systems for exclusives but XSeX should be the multiplat king.
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Dude we were praising both consoles like it's second coming of Jesus & you start giving us stories about the games you saw, now you trash the ps5?? You said that devs told you that both consoles capable of 4k@90fps etc, now the SX is the king of multiplat??

In the end you got almost everything wrong, so everything else is questionable.
 
lepermessiah said:
Except I doubt the vast majority of those that touted the github leak on twitter, YouTube and forums that aren't devs (remember the leak was rdna 1, let's not forget) understood what all that hardware customisation/custom silicon, co-processors, etc, tech talk from Cerny was about in the least.

I'm totally unsure about which will garner better real-world results on which titles at the end of the day. Yes Series X has the raw number advantage, however it remains to be seen whether it'll always perform the best under all scenarios.
Remember Assassins Creed Unity performing better on the vanilla Xbox One over the PS4 due to more cpu intensive loads? I remember, now take into account that variable frequency and bottleneck killing that Cerny mentioned... Performance wise things are going to be interesting and far more nuanced than just looking at raw numbers on paper.


NmJuwVH.png
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Most important components in a console are CPU and GPU, so we can only assume based upon this being a fact up to this point that Series X is more powerful. Believing that SSD is gonna cut that difference significantly is based upon nothing but wishful thinking on the part of Sony fans at this point as we have no data to prove this. People can only go off of what they already know and the preceded that has been sent.
 
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SlimySnake said:
trump was right about fake news.

Andrew Reiner from Gameinformer, Colin Moriarty Ex-Kinda Funny Games, Klee From EGM, Jason From Kotaku, Hasan Pirzada from WCCFTECH, all journalists, all misled us in one way or another.

I was always suspicious of forum insiders, but had some built in trust for these journalists with sources in the industry. Never again. They are parrots just like thuway. they will say anything they hear. i bet sony first party devs were creating this false narrative feeding them bad info all this time.
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husomc said:
Ppl shouldn't be allowed to err. Sony has to show it to us. Going forward every day that Sony goes without clarifying or dropping bombs, is a day that they lose some of their momentum/goodwill
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The only thing Sony will be promoting in full force is SSD. I don't think all of the 3D audio babbling will be promoted long term.

What you'll get is Sony's big feature being PS5 loading games in 2 seconds. Their first PR bit about PS5 a year ago was the Spiderman video. Cerny's show was full force SSD.

I don't see how marketing can effectively convey SSD being able to stream open world games better, in which SeX's SSD can do it too.

Sony will focus on first party games and SSD speed factor. 3D audio (which to me is them just doing filler content) will die off. Most people don't even have gear to do 3D audio, but being able to show in TV ads or YT videos showing GT being being able to load a track in 2 seconds will resonate with everyone as people can understand waiting.

And nobody likes waiting, whether it's a game or at the grocery store.
 
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Gamernyc78 said:
Thyve built good will on years of great games, features, innovation and hardware so I don't agree with tht part. Good will doesn't get lost so easily.

However i agree the onus is on them to show what the system is capable of which we all know thy will, just depends on when.
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Hopefully we get some PS5 game news within the week. Ideally they should have followed that deep dive with a few game announcements.
 
Just curious on the consensus here with regarding to digital foundry. Everyone here said that they were hacks for doing a deep dive into the GitHub leak. Now that it is shown that the leak was based in reality and real hardware, does that change people's position? I have to say they were pretty complimentary with PS5 coverage as well. They could have easily pitted the release specs against each other which would paint the PS5 in a negative light, but they chose to highlight the "potential" advantages such as system brings you.

This is going to be another interesting generation where we don't have one console just completely outclassed in the other. generally you're probably going to get better performance and resolution out of the Xbox but who knows what some talented developers will pull off with those high clocks and IO speeds.
 
lepermessiah said:
Except I doubt the vast majority of those that touted the github leak on twitter, YouTube and forums that aren't devs (remember the leak was rdna 1, let's not forget) understood what all that hardware customisation/custom silicon, co-processors, etc, tech talk from Cerny was about in the least.

I'm totally unsure about which will garner better real-world results on which titles at the end of the day. Yes Series X has the raw number advantage, however it remains to be seen whether it'll always perform the best under all scenarios.
Remember Assassins Creed Unity performing better on the vanilla Xbox One over the PS4 due to more cpu intensive loads? I remember, now take into account that variable frequency and bottleneck killing that Cerny mentioned... Performance wise things are going to be interesting and far more nuanced than just looking at raw numbers on paper.


NmJuwVH.png
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See, it's exactly THIS kind of thing that is fascinating to me about the architecture.
I have no idea what to expect from it in real world terms and that excites me.
 
48086 said:
No one is downplaying the ssd. If anything, the ssd is being hailed as a god by warriors. The fact is, no one really knows what it's capable of when it comes to games. Will third parties utilize it? Will first party Sony games be significantly better than xsx first games because of it? Sure it's great tech but it's not really going to matter if it doesn't allow for obvious improvements over the xsx in the yearly sportsball, cod, and first party games.
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Disagree. We've already seen a real life application of the SSD when Cerny showed the difference in speeds in Spiderman. We know what it can do at the base level. Warriors however are trying to equate an obviously customized SSD and trying to say it's no different than a SSD you can buy from Best Biy and slap it in the PS5 which is disingenuous.
 
What ever happened to those insiders adamant about the PS5 being over 12tf? My feeling is there was a lot of MS warriors feeding false info to people, knowing fully that the PS5 was going to be 9tf overclocked.
 
Reindeer said:
SMH. That's just common sense. Not even 2080 TI can run all games from this gen at 60FPS. You can cry about those games running at ultra settings on PC, but you have to take into account that fidelity will be massively increased next gen which will consume a lot of power. None of this is rocket science, I'm sorry if it is to you.
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Gears 5 is 100 fps\4K with settings superior to Ultra on SeX. 2080 TI do not use VRS, machine learning and it's nor RDNA2. If by tf alone SeX if beyond 2080 Super, with RDNA 2 it'over 2080 TI.
Dunno about next gen, but SeX could run everything in this gen basically in every way.
 
StreetsofBeige said:
The only thing Sony will be promoting in full force is SSD. I don't think all of the 3D audio babbling will be promoted long term.

What you'll get is Sony's big feature being PS5 loading games in 2 seconds. Their first PR bit about PS5 a year ago was the Spiderman video. Cerny's show was full force SSD.

I don't see how marketing can effectively convey SSD being able to stream open world games better, in which SeX's SSD can do it too.

Sony will focus on first party games and SSD speed factor. 3D audio (which to me is them just doing filler content) will die off. Most people don't even have gear to do 3D audio, but being able to show in TV ads or YT videos showing GT being being able to load a track in 2 seconds will resonate with everyone as people can understand waiting.

And nobody likes waiting, whether it's a game or at the grocery store.
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I totally get the SSD thing, I've actually given up on several games due to loads time of over 1 minute ( I'm looking at you Witcher 2). Going forward this might actually be beneficial to 3rd party games as well. Like having better load times on the ps5. This deep dive thing shouldn't have happened. Would have been much better if they mailed the video to all the devs instead of broadcasting to 560k ppl most of whom wouldn't have been able to make head or tail of what was going on apart from the fact that PS5 < XSX.
 
Came back to GAF after 24h and start seeing post that say that the PS5 is more balanced and there are even people going as far as saying thats its more powerfull with its tricks under it sleeves. Like i get it you whant to put your fav console in a good place against XSX but come on people be realistic. The PS5 is still a good console and has more than enough power to produce some amazing looking games. But gaddamn some of you ( everybody nows who) are really pushing hard to downplay every advantage the X has over the 5 while making ridiculous claims about the advantages the 5 has over X. The 5 dissapointed me yesterday, but even then i will get it to play Sony exclusives. I did the same last gen when Xbox launched with Forza and when PS4 didn't have anything interesting in the beginning, i bought the underpowerd overpriced console to play the games i like. But i didn't start making ridiculous claims to defend the flaws and weaksness of the box. I also bought the PS4 Pro even knowing that XBX was gonna launch a litlle later, you know why? Because it had games i liked that i could play on it. Instead going full damage controll just wait and see what kind of games they will produce on it.
 
VanSiriusGabriel said:
Gears 5 is 100 fps\4K with settings superior to Ultra on SeX. 2080 TI do not use VRS, machine learning and it's nor RDNA2. If by tf alone SeX if beyond 2080 Super, with RDNA 2 it'over 2080 TI.
Dunno about next gen, but SeX could run everything in this gen basically in every way.
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No, this is a lie spread on internet. DF already made a video stating that at 4K Ultra settings without new enhancements Gears 5 run on par with 2080, not even 2080 Super or 2080 TI. Watch DF video they just released. 4K Ultra 100FPS was a misinformation.
 
This got lost in the excitement :


YcW3WJo.png

(Try squinting)

It's the Series X PSU

110V @4.5A or 240V @2.2A - call it a 500W PSU

There are two outputs

12V @21.25A = 255W and 12V @5A = 60W

Puts an upperlimit on the APU+RAM power draw of under 255W. I'd guess the second is for USB/BluRay/Fan
 
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Deeper Underground said:
Disagree. We've already seen a real life application of the SSD when Cerny showed the difference in speeds in Spiderman. We know what it can do at the base level. Warriors however are trying to equate an obviously customized SSD and trying to say it's no different than a SSD you can buy from Best Biy and slap it in the PS5 which is disingenuous.
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That Spiderman demo was comparing the ssd to the ps4 not the xsx.
 
Smoke6 said:
No! He clearly said they tested the top 100 games and they all pretty much are running fine and will keep us up to date on that but it's looking good for full back compatibility
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Top 100 games most played and some crashed because of engine limitation.
 
Gamernyc78 said:
Figured but still too many unknowns on the affect of tht super fast ssd and diff in CU count and speed which all professionals have mentioned.
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I expect the SSD to affect performance as if the PS5 had more ram than it actually has. So in my mind this is Xbox One vs 4GB PS4 reversed. PS5 is going to behave as if it had more ram and Series X is going to be better performing.

In the end I guess results are going to be pretty similar with PS5 winning in some aspects and Series X in many others, but it's going to take some time for me to come back to reality after months and months of expecting PS5 to be better in every aspect.

It was so easy to decide buying a PS4 in 2013, it's not going to be so easy to decide buying a PS5 in 2020.

We will have to wait and see how they compare when running games side by side.
 
David Ricardo said:
I expect the SSD to affect performance as if the PS5 had more ram than it actually has. So in my mind this is Xbox One vs 4GB PS4 reversed. PS5 is going to behave as if it had more ram and Series X is going to be better performing.

In the end I guess results are going to be pretty similar with PS5 winning in some aspects and Series X in many others, but it's going to take some time for me to come back to reality after months and months of expecting PS5 to be better in every aspect.

It was so easy to decide buying a PS4 in 2013, it's not going to be so easy to decide buying a PS5 in 2020.

We will have to wait and see how they compare when running games side by side.
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I agree 10000% only difference is its still easy for me getting a psv but now I'm strongly siding on also getting a nextbox 🤦‍♂️ more money to spend yayyyy /s smh
 
Anyone know how Sony arrived at the very unusual 825GB SSD size? Cerny claimed "With 12 channel interface, the most natural size that emerges for an SSD is 825GB" but it doesn't make much sense to me. 512Gbit NAND chips would be too small (512/8*12=768GB), 1024Gbit NAND would be too big (1.5TB). 768Gbit NAND with a really big SLC cache or other kind of of tiered storage solution? Bad NAND with disabled cells? Some wonky mix of NAND densities?
 
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VanSiriusGabriel said:
Gears 5 is 100 fps\4K with settings superior to Ultra on SeX. 2080 TI do not use VRS, machine learning and it's nor RDNA2. If by tf alone SeX if beyond 2080 Super, with RDNA 2 it'over 2080 TI.
Dunno about next gen, but SeX could run everything in this gen basically in every way.
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Fake news.
MS never talked about framerate any it doesn't run at 100fps at better setting than PC max.

In fact it runs pretty close to RTX 2080 settings/performance.
 
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ethomaz said:
Fake news.
MS never talked about framerate any it doesn't run at 100fps at better setting than PC max.

In fact it runs pretty close to RTX 2080 settings/performance.
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Even I at first believed this 4K 100FPS nonsense that was spread on internet, but this is obviously fake news.
 
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~Fake said:
I recommend you rewatch the video from yesterday. PS5 games are entering in beta testing and right now top 100 games will be on BC day one. They give me 'less' reasons to get a PS5 day one.
Keep in mind I not get a PS4 day one as well. I get the PS4 slim. I was hoping for a next gen way of doing BC. I could be happy with little PS5 games while I could play PS4 games while I wait the proper next gen games to happen, but I not so sure now. What is the probability of those 100 games one of them be my?

I live in Brazil and the top 7 games here are Fortnine, Ark and GTAV. None of those games I play.

Again, different people, different targets. For me was a deal break. No more day one for me.

MS don't make RT mandatory as well, but only Sony don't release tech demo about RT.
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From what you said, I wouldn't recommend you pick a PS5 day one even at full BC compatibility, once you want to wait 'proper' next gen games. Stick to your PS4 for a while.

About RT, it was indeed a big fail for Sony, they lost the opportunity to prove their point.
 
saqw this interesting post on the verge
JR78
10GB of RAM on the Xbox is 112 GB/s faster than the PS5. This is where the high fidelity textures, models, etc would all be loaded. These have much faster throughput through the APU unit because of this, leading to fewer missed cycles and more efficient processing. It is likely that the graphical differences will be greater than what the 18% difference in raw power tells us.
The improved I/O really only relates to loading into memory, but beyond 2GB/s the differences become fairly negligible. With their compression setup, it is likely the Xbox can fill all available RAM in a theoretical 2.7 seconds versus 1.6 seconds for the PS5. Most people will not care about an extra second.
There is also an APU advantage in that the compute cores and the CPU cores all operate at set frequencies in the Xbox whereas the PS5 is variable. There will be much more optimization needed on the PS5, especially accounting for thermal loads. Microsoft designed the power to be predictable. It is possible the PS5 could deliver more power in short bursts, but cannot sustain that power.
I would guess when the first titles for both are tested that we will see the Xbox having better visuals and framerates with the PS5 loading it in a couple seconds faster. The PS5 is also more likely to have heat and fan noise issues because of its design, though their cooling stack could tell us more.
What's interesting is Sony was pretty light on specifics and did not reveal the look. I'd guess Microsoft is way ahead on engineering and is likely already building spec and prototype out on the upgrade that will come in 2-3 years after release while Sony may only be doing light concepts because it seems they are still trying to completely lock down their next gen console.
I would not be surprised to see Sony delay the console longer than manufacturing needs and Microsoft to find a way to launch it near on time. It appears MS has a fairly simple manufacturing process and designed for that.
Posted on Mar 18, 2020 | 6:11 PM
 
Neo Blaster said:
From what you said, I wouldn't recommend you pick a PS5 day one even at full BC compatibility, once you want to wait 'proper' next gen games. Stick to your PS4 for a while.

About RT, it was indeed a big fail for Sony, they lost the opportunity to prove their point.
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So far no day one for me. Until launch they can change my mind anytime. I guess the conference lacks tech demo.

I actually was more hyped about the Dualshock 5 and the PS5 size, but there is.

Is never recommend getting a day one hardware, but sometimes the hype do the job.
 
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jon3sy9 said:
saqw this interesting post on the verge
JR78
10GB of RAM on the Xbox is 112 GB/s faster than the PS5. This is where the high fidelity textures, models, etc would all be loaded. These have much faster throughput through the APU unit because of this, leading to fewer missed cycles and more efficient processing. It is likely that the graphical differences will be greater than what the 18% difference in raw power tells us.
The improved I/O really only relates to loading into memory, but beyond 2GB/s the differences become fairly negligible. With their compression setup, it is likely the Xbox can fill all available RAM in a theoretical 2.7 seconds versus 1.6 seconds for the PS5. Most people will not care about an extra second.
There is also an APU advantage in that the compute cores and the CPU cores all operate at set frequencies in the Xbox whereas the PS5 is variable. There will be much more optimization needed on the PS5, especially accounting for thermal loads. Microsoft designed the power to be predictable. It is possible the PS5 could deliver more power in short bursts, but cannot sustain that power.
I would guess when the first titles for both are tested that we will see the Xbox having better visuals and framerates with the PS5 loading it in a couple seconds faster. The PS5 is also more likely to have heat and fan noise issues because of its design, though their cooling stack could tell us more.
What's interesting is Sony was pretty light on specifics and did not reveal the look. I'd guess Microsoft is way ahead on engineering and is likely already building spec and prototype out on the upgrade that will come in 2-3 years after release while Sony may only be doing light concepts because it seems they are still trying to completely lock down their next gen console.
I would not be surprised to see Sony delay the console longer than manufacturing needs and Microsoft to find a way to launch it near on time. It appears MS has a fairly simple manufacturing process and designed for that.
Posted on Mar 18, 2020 | 6:11 PM
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You don't neee to load to RAM with faster I/O.
He is having a very closed mind to what SSD can be used.

For example you can use the RAM only to GPU processing without need to upload anything from SSD tom RAM.
That save RAM so you have more to use for GPU calculations and save time (you don't need to use cycles to load from SSD to RAM).

It is just one example of what you can do.

He forget Xbox has 6GB of slower RAM... what happen if devs needs to use it in their games?
 
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ethomaz said:
Fake news.
MS never talked about framerate any it doesn't run at 100fps at better setting than PC max.

In fact it runs pretty close to RTX 2080 settings/performance.
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Ok.
But 12.1 TF RDNA 2.0 is definitely better than 2080, Gears demo took about two weeks of work. In the long run we will see more. This, putting aside 4k 60 fps on next gen games anyway.
 
VanSiriusGabriel said:
Ok.
But 12.1 TF RDNA 2.0 is definitely better than 2080, Gears demo took about two weeks of work. In the long run we will see more. This, putting aside 4k 60 fps on next gen games anyway.
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Yes it is probably better for render graphics... XDK is probably early yet.
But it is not that difference people tried to create... sub 60fps vs over 100fps with better graphics.

I still believe (not specific to Xbox) RTX RT solution is way stronger than RDNA2 RT solution.
 
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M-V2 said:
Dude we were praising both consoles like it's second coming of Jesus & you start giving us stories about the games you saw, now you trash the ps5?? You said that devs told you that both consoles capable of 4k@90fps etc, now the SX is the king of multiplat??

In the end you got almost everything wrong, so everything else is questionable.
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I think there is some sarcasm there, tbh.
 
ethomaz said:
You don't neee to load to RAM with faster I/O.
He is having a very closed mind to what SSD can be used.

For example you can use the RAM only to GPU processing without need to upload anything from SSD tom RAM.
That save RAM so you have more to use for GPU calculations and save time (you don't need to use cycles to load from SSD to RAM).

It is just one example of what you can do.

He forget Xbox has 6GB of slower RAM... what happen if devs needs to use it in their games?
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heres his reply
JR78
Should also be noted that 10GB of XSX's RAM is 112GB/s faster than any of the PS5's RAM. That is where most all of the visuals will be.
The SSD bandwidth is nice, but will not be all that noticeable to most people. Think of a loading screen. 10GB of data going into the system memory on that loading screen would take would take about 1.25 seconds on the PS5 to load with compression techniques and 2.08 seconds on the Xbox.
Once you get over 2GB/s the load speeds to fill RAM are negligible for most people.
So to load all approx 13GB of available memory (considering system overhead) it would take the Xbox 5.4 seconds if able to load at minimum bandwidth. The PS5 would do 13GB in 2.36 seconds. Less than half the time, but we're talking seconds. Once you get to PCIe 3.0 speeds, it really is such a small difference.
If we were talking 100MB/s versus 230MB/s (the equivalent of the difference between the two) then it WOULD matter because 10GB on the Xbox would take 100 seconds versus 44 seconds for the PS. But once you get to 2 GB/s or so, the speeds really become less and less material and the I/O speed less important.
The big thing is the much faster 10GB of memory on the Xbox for you visuals. That means more data bandwidth to the CPU/GPU and less missed cycles because of it.
My guess is the Xbox will be easier to optimize for from what has been released and will present better frame rates and graphical fidelity overall. Will be very interested to see the comparative ray tracing performance and the ability to add HDR enhancement to old titles through some AI enhancement.
Posted on Mar 18, 2020 | 6:02 PM
 
ethomaz said:
Yes it is probably better for render graphics... CDK is probably early yet.
But it is not that difference people tried to create... sub 60fps vs over 100fps with better graphics.

I still believe (not specific to Xbox) RTX RT solution is way stronger than RDNA2 RT solution.
Click to expand...

Optimization will play a huge role on RT and once again consoles have the job to move foward this tech.
 
jon3sy9 said:
heres his reply
JR78
Should also be noted that 10GB of XSX's RAM is 112GB/s faster than any of the PS5's RAM. That is where most all of the visuals will be.
The SSD bandwidth is nice, but will not be all that noticeable to most people. Think of a loading screen. 10GB of data going into the system memory on that loading screen would take would take about 1.25 seconds on the PS5 to load with compression techniques and 2.08 seconds on the Xbox.
Once you get over 2GB/s the load speeds to fill RAM are negligible for most people.
So to load all approx 13GB of available memory (considering system overhead) it would take the Xbox 5.4 seconds if able to load at minimum bandwidth. The PS5 would do 13GB in 2.36 seconds. Less than half the time, but we're talking seconds. Once you get to PCIe 3.0 speeds, it really is such a small difference.
If we were talking 100MB/s versus 230MB/s (the equivalent of the difference between the two) then it WOULD matter because 10GB on the Xbox would take 100 seconds versus 44 seconds for the PS. But once you get to 2 GB/s or so, the speeds really become less and less material and the I/O speed less important.
The big thing is the much faster 10GB of memory on the Xbox for you visuals. That means more data bandwidth to the CPU/GPU and less missed cycles because of it.
My guess is the Xbox will be easier to optimize for from what has been released and will present better frame rates and graphical fidelity overall. Will be very interested to see the comparative ray tracing performance and the ability to add HDR enhancement to old titles through some AI enhancement.
Posted on Mar 18, 2020 | 6:02 PM
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That is the same quote I replied.
 
CJY said:
Supporters of Xbox and PS alike should probably go and watch and listen to Cerny talk about the PS5 again with a new set of expectations and with an open mind. The stuff he is talking about is absolutely mind blowing.
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Fast SSD (and smaller game installs, less mem needed) is cool.
GPU overclocked into oblivion (heat, noise, longevity) is not.
3D audio... AMD had that for a while, well, maybe.

RT is unlikely to take off, at best it sounds like it is on current gen RTX crap levels.

New dualshock might be exciting, but they have yet to demo it.


jon3sy9 said:
The SSD bandwidth is nice, but will not be all that noticeable to most people. Think of a loading screen. 10GB of data going into the system memory on that loading screen would take would take about 1.25 seconds on the PS5 to load with compression techniques and 2.08 seconds on the Xbox.
Click to expand...
And now multiply that by 10.
 
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