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Agnostic2020
Member
That is an inaccueate statment .gpu is operating at 10.3 tf almost all the time and rarely it shifts to 10.08 by dropping the clock frequency by couple of % to reduce power draw by 10%
devilNprada
Member
Stop.. the sticks will wear long before the battery ever does.
Battery technology is pretty great these days, good enough in fact, to not use those heavy cumbersome shaped AA's anymore... That is the only battery technology that hasn't changed in the past 40 years.
Lone Wolf
Member
You can't run an OS from the SSD. The OS handles all the sharing and streaming and it needs to be in RAM at all times.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Nothing, I was barely supposing anything.
10.3 is calculated with clocks and CU, smartshift efficiency in moving power from CPU to GPU is not about TFs is directly about performance. At very least, the calc Cerny did didn't say it was thanks to smartshift, was 10.3 normally, then smartshift helps. Again, this is what I recall from the conference.
SonGoku
Member
Sorry i misunderstood you. So this actually like a devtool that comes with Azure backing it, like devs baking GI?
One thing though Audio RT is a very light load for dedicated RT hardware and the advantage of doing it in real time is it will be more dynamic and thus retain realism outside the scripted scenarios.
eastwood333
Banned
Stop? I find quickly swapping out rechargeable batteries more convenient. Why change something that isn't broke? And where do you even buy those type of batteries? I don't see them at my local Walmart.
That's fine if you prefer that over rechargeable batteries.
SgtCaffran
Member
But I'm sure that with the PS5 SSD, you could only keep the bare OS minimum in RAM and then just load whatever you need on the fly. (when PS button or share button is pressed)
You should tell Sony that and my launch ps4 controller that had always had sub 10 hour battery life. You can make an argument for both this generation. My rechargeable last 30 hours on the one x. 30 hours and instant swap vs sub 10 hour and needing to have to run cord to charge for a long weekend of gaming.
eastwood333
Banned
Then why have variable clocks at all?
ResilientBanana
Member
He mentioned it in the video when he spoke directly about smartshift and how it takes power from the GPU to the CPU and in reverse. It's neat tech but it's variable and not streamline.
Lone Wolf
Member
Which would take away memory from the game and hurt performance. Stop believing all this nonsense. The OS will not be offloaded to the SSD and audio will not take up 20% GPU. For Gods sake stop falling for the trolling.
SgtCaffran
Member
Yes exactly, that is what I think is Project Acoustics! I think it's very comparable to baked GI. That also means for dynamic environments, this won't work (as well).
I agree audio RT is a light load (as indicated by Cerny as well) so I would be very interested in a comparison when the boxes are out. Considering sounds travels by wave and not by ray, I wonder how easy it is to actually model audio with raytracing. Waves have some unique qualities to them that might be hard to capture with just rays. Exiting times ahead!
Agnostic2020
Member
To drop the electrical power draw by 10% if needed by a minor % reduction in clock so the fan stays silent
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
So he directly said that THANKS to smartshift PS5 reaches 10.3? Because I really don't recall this, the 10.3 was a number simply extrapolate by him from CU and clocks as normal.
But ok.
SgtCaffran
Member
Because Sony has opted for a fixed power budget for the PS5 and the power is not only affected by the clock speed but also by the load. If the load is suddenly very high, the GPU (or CPU if it's under utilised at that moment) will be able to downclock slightly to stick to the power budget.
Audio won't take up 20% GPU, I agree.
However, I think loading only the core OS into the RAM would be a brilliant solution. It would not hurt performance, instead, it would improve it! The PS5 might give 15.5 GB out of 16 GB to developers to use if they only need 500 MB for the core OS. The PS5 SSD is so fast that by the time you start pressing the PS button, the required OS data is already loaded into RAM.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
Once he used the word "staggering" for tht level of power difference you know he's full of shit lol
I wonder what he thought with xbox one versus ps4 levels of power difference? Deadly? Ridiculous? Jarring?
MARTYWOLF
Member
I'm still confused on ps5 storage. If someone can help me out
Is it a spare a nvme slot or is it just replaceable? If only replacable I can imagine alot of people just moving games back and forth from external hdd back to internal this applies to series x too.
I have it in my mind that I'll likely get 3 series x external nvme's and name them based on my 3 big game genres and keep everything else on the internal. I'm gonna assume swapping out the ps5 nvme if it's indeed just replaceable and not a spare slot will not require screws or anything to get too?
Is it a spare a nvme slot or is it just replaceable? If only replacable I can imagine alot of people just moving games back and forth from external hdd back to internal this applies to series x too.
I have it in my mind that I'll likely get 3 series x external nvme's and name them based on my 3 big game genres and keep everything else on the internal. I'm gonna assume swapping out the ps5 nvme if it's indeed just replaceable and not a spare slot will not require screws or anything to get too?
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kyliethicc
Member
I assume the variable clocks is to allow the GPU to run at a higher clock SOME of the time then would possible to run the GPU ALL of the time. With a fixed clock, some lesser loads on the GPU wouldn't push it to the max limit, so why not allow for the GPU to boost even higher when it can? And when it can't, lower it back down to whatever it can. Makes sense to me. With a fixed clock, as was on PS4, you end up with a few games/moments of super loud fan noise and heat. This should eliminate that, and allow other times for the system to hit a clock speed that it can't be used all the time. Seems cool, but I'm not a developer so idk.
geordiemp
Member
Probably was sat outside gamestop watching how many Xbox were sold with timdog.
These people are crazy lol, seriously need medical attention and some treatment.
SgtCaffran
Member
It's an additional M2 slot so you can have additional storage. You will probably have to install it with a few simple screws but nothing complex.
kyliethicc
Member
The PS5 will have a second M.2 SSD bay for expansion, like how the Switch has a SD card slot. The PS5 internal SSD is 12 chips of flash storage (probably soldered to the board) and cannot be removed. Unlike the PS4, which only had 1 internal HDD we could replace.
MARTYWOLF
Member
Sweet as thank you so I'll be buying multiple nvmes for ps5 too lordy storage is gonna be expensive for both
devilNprada
Member
Your rechargables are AA's? Again that AA cumbersome shape and weight is the only battery technology that has not changed in 40 years.
you can actually pack more energy in less volume these days.
I find easiest to rotate controllers.
MARTYWOLF
Member
Maybe I'll even get external ssds for the next consoles I know they won't play games from them but transferring games should be quicker than a normal external hdd
Lone Wolf
Member
lets say your brilliant idea is a exactly what Sony is doing. What stops MS from doing the same?
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Half SSD speed on average, not accounting the 22 GB\s that may be theoric but that SeX just can't never do.
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M-V2
Member
Oh I see, and yeah see the video let me hear what you think about it.
eastwood333
Banned
Controllers aint cheap. 60 bucks a pop unless u find a sell. I'd rather buy 6 rechargeable batteries for like 12 bucks, swap them out and you're good for at least a yr depending on play time. And swapping takes seconds. I don't care if they've been around 100 yrs.
Imtjnotu
Member
hold off doing this. cerny said not all will work or size might be an issue. ps5 design is done tho so we should know soon.
also current ones dont work with ps5 for the same speeds. he said at the end of this year we should have ones with similar speeds to the ps5 so it will work flawless as if it were part of the system
Bo_Hazem
Banned
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Not quite, because most if not all SSDs would still lack the priority channels that the original has, leading to less optimized data management even at same speed. Cerny words.
zeroeffect
Member
When this guy or Jason quote "devs" are they first-party devs from Sony or Microsoft or third-party? That's kinda an important distinction to make so saying stuff like this or what Jason says is a lot of absolutely nothing. Specify. You don't have to tell us who but at least tell us what group they belong to. If you're not getting information from third-party devs what do you expect the first-party dev to say? Of course they're going to hype their employer's box up.
Saying "staggering" seems like hyperbole to me. I would need to see the proof of this. I doubt you're going to see a big performance difference between the games. Hypothetically the power gap is smaller here than in X1 vs. PS4 and the performance difference in those games was not big. Certainly not "big" like PS3 vs. 360 when you had Bayonetta running at 60fps on 360 and 30fps on PS3. I think PS3 proves there's a lot more to console design than raw power.
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SonGoku
Member
Its main benefit I think will be to run power hungry GPU loads at peak performance (10.28TF)
Depending of the scenario CPU might run at slightly lower frequency or retain peak frequency but run lighter loads
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SgtCaffran
Member
I don't know.
But if I had to make an educated guess:
- Slower SSD
- less optimised IO stack
- Windows
eastwood333
Banned
Ever heard of resolutiongate? 1080p vs 720 0r 900p?
devilNprada
Member
That's you not me... easy to just grab the other controller, I'm happy to pay for convenience.
I made sure nothing in my house uses traditional batteries... but that's me.
So we just agreed to disagree.
Imtjnotu
Member
no he did not say that.
he said the ps5 has 6 priority levels and the current m.2 standard is 2.
he said the drive would have to be faster than the ps5's just to make up the difference for the I/O controller on the nvme drive to run at ps5 level. they hook up directly to the I/O drive that the ps5 is also using.
Road to PS5, 21 minute mark
kyliethicc
Member
Thankfully we can also store and play PS4 games on any external hard drive. So no need to use the internal SSD for old games. Same with Xbox.
zeroeffect
Member
I wouldn't consider that a big gap in performance. When a game is gimped down to 30fps and another is running at 60fps...I'd consider that a major performance gap. A minor bump in resolution is nothing when most people probably couldn't even tell the differences. Also, you're comparing something based on the average person and what TV they're using, how far they're sitting, angles, etc. FPS impacts gameplay for every player whether they recognize it or not. That's a staggering performance gap not a minor resolution bump to please your eyes.
"staggering" seems like major hyberbole to me using that word to compare the performance gap considering PS5 has their own advantages. There's too much in play here for anyone to give realistic variables on how well games will perform. Wait until the games are being made before anyone judges either console.
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Yes, you were saying that SSDs with similar speeds will come out and they will work no problem.
Now you say that, exactly because of priorities factor, a faster SSD is needed. So we are saying the same thing I guess, just depends on the definition of "similar".
kyliethicc
Member
Yeah Cerny made it seem like to use a M.2 SSD it needs to be around 7 GB/s read (PCIe 4.0). That's not gonna be available until 2021 and will probably be at least like $150 for 512 GB. $250 for 1 TB. What Xbox chooses to charge for their proprietary 1 TB expansion card is gonna be fascinating.
Disco_
Member
There's no drive on the market that would be sufficient, IIRC.
The controller itself is on the die. That's why you can use other NVMEs as long as they're faster than the internal drive.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Dunno; I just don't see it being that straightforward. For tasks that are very cycle-dependent there's going to be at least some bit of a manual balancing act, the important part is that it doesn't become a game of minute micromanagement.
The 'time-to-triangle' thing is just one facet of development, it doesn't necessarily mean the actual development time gets shorter unfortunately. Ambitions and budgets will continue to rise so dev process in terms of time will probably stay about the same as this gen. Also I remember Sony saying a long time back they were interested in going with fewer AAA games, but making them bigger and bolder in ambition. So that'll all probably even out the development time on big games for next gen, all things considered.
eastwood333
Banned
More like 18-25% depending on how much each game stresses the PS5s variable clocks load.More like how Xbox fanboys see it. It's only 14.8%.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Bo_Hazem
Banned
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