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[Finem Orientis]

"Both first and third-party PlayStation 5 titles that offer new gaming experiences are in the works, and we'll be introducing a strong lineup soon." President and CEO Kenichiro Yoshida

 

[thurnishaleygw]

A story in 3 parts.

Source?

Me.

 

[ethomaz]

Link to watch Sony corporate strategy meeting is here: https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/strategy/
It should've begun already but it hasn't

Ohhhhhh it is today... why somebody wrote 20th.

Edit - Somenody posted the wrong date.

 

[HAL-01]

It happens tomorrow.

It's already over, they're doing Q&A right now

 

[Vaztu]

Great post - and I absolutely made a boat load of assumptions, pure speculation on my point: half the fun, for me.
Anyway, design philosophies are certainly at play - for example, it would make sense that Microsoft, a fundamentally software focused company, would put more emphasis on their software to solve problems, because it's what they've built their empire on. Sony's been in the hardware game for eons, so it makes sense they'd also play to their strengths. That's one component of it, no question. Cerny is bringing lots to the table at Sony as well, so we're starting to see the continued value of his expertise. I've said it before: Cerny is respected for a reason, so I'm not downplaying what him and his team have done.
For me, engineering always comes down: you do not do something unless you need to. Everything is done to achieve a goal. If Sony offloaded their I/O onto bespoke hardware, it's because they needed to in order to achieve a goal. So, that reason can be anything: it could be for latency goals, read speeds, heat dissipation, or component availability, or because their protocols were bottlenecking the I/O pipe. The short of it is Sony needed to offload it. Microsoft, on the other hands, didn't do this - so, there must also be a reason they didn't do this. Like Sony's reason, Microsoft's reason could be anything: perhaps they couldn't afford to, maybe they didn't have room to, they couldn't accommodate the additional heat, or - potentially - they had no need to. It's the balancing act of hardware engineering.
My insight is this: if Sony's I/O didn't create a significant load on the CPU, they wouldn't have put it on its own hardware and Cerny wouldn't have taken the time to explain that doing this frees up the CPU. Likewise, if Microsoft's I/O didn't create a significant load on the CPU, Microsoft wouldn't have explained that their new protocols freed up the CPU, negating the need for extra CPU power to handle the I/O. Taking both companies at face value, Sony indirectly said they needed to free up the CPU, so they added extra hardware. Microsoft directly said they needed to free up the CPU, and so wrote new software. I feel like these explanations and assertions from both companies imply that they both ran into bottlenecks, and solved the issue in different ways - playing to their strengths.

Read This:
He then clarifies further on later posts.

Microsoft is a company that develops "software". I don't see Microsoft collaborating with AMD to develop Hardware, much less the software for that new Hardware. If you have not even had the decency to bother to properly customize DX12U for XSX and have opted to use the generic version designed for PC. That does not mean that it is bad, but it certainly does not look good for a software company to give the impression that it has not made much effort to create decent tools that really measure up to the powerful machine they have bought. That will make that power not squeeze all its performance easily, and less from the beginning. That is the only weak point that I see Microsoft. Power without sufficient short-term control.


Look for the message in which I said that the PS5 GPU was more powerful in theoretical numbers than the XSX. It is not me who is stubborn in trying to compare those numbers. I have always said that PS5 is more efficient. I thought about it in January, and at this point I still think that it will continue to be so when consoles are on the market.

 

[chigstoke]

Well, there it is. The mysterious MS-Sony partnership finally revealed.

"We're very happy to be partnering with Microsoft on the development of AI Solutions, their use of RDNA3 during development over our lowly pathetic RDNA2 really helped to make our AI sensing better."

Timdog, probably.

 

[ZehDon]

Read This:
He then clarifies further on later posts.

I'm not sure what I'm responding to, frankly? I mean, DX12U is a multi-platform API. If it was fully customised for Series X... then it wouldn't be multi-platform any more. But, that's kind of the point. The name "Xbox" is a contraction of "Direct X Box", which was the informal name used to describe the console while it was in development. Xboxes are literally built to run DirectX. This isn't unique to this generation - the Xbox 360, for example, used DirectX9c, though I can't recall what version of DirectX the OG used. It's pretty common knowledge that the Xbox One has actually used different versions of Direct X, with DX12 being the most recent. So... yeah?

 

[BGs]

Read This:
He then clarifies further on later posts.

As I see that this Quote will bring consequences, I anticipate it.

Spoiler: Off Topic

I don't work at Microsoft or AMD or Sony. I am not a creator of software nor of hardware either. I USE the software that others make.

Therefore, I am aware that all software and hardware that is made has had a team of professionals behind, very suitable for the job and they have also had a budget / time for it. I have never wanted to undermine their work, surely they do so under specific circumstances and pressure.

But I, as a "user" of that software for which I pay money, have the right to express my discomfort or discomfort for those tools that are not as one expects them to be. That does not mean that they are bad, it simply means that they are not what I expected.

Similarly, if I did not have the right to express my discomfort, there would be no customer service department or technical department of a company. It is there to receive complaints or reports about things that do not work quite well. And then the company is the one that decides if the problem is solved or not. And how do you do it if you decide to do it. There are times when a software goes well and sometimes it goes wrong. Although the previous versions have been good, it does not necessarily imply that the new versions are better. They may be and they may not be.

For example, the software that I have used the most in my life is probably 3D Studio MAX, and it has things that I detest, errors that it still keeps dragging after 20 years (like the unstable Boolean bliss), and still I still use it day by day ( same as Windows). There are always many ways to solve a problem, and if your main tool (not the only one) does not allow you to work properly, then you send the respective reports to the company and if they do not solve it, you end up working with other solutions such as Houdini, for example. . But that doesn't stop me from continuing to use 3DSMAX.

The same goes for development tools, there are good ones, there are bad ones, there are optimized ones and there are some that are not. But sometimes the solution to the problem is so complex that perhaps it is more to their account to re-do them for the future Hardware in 5-10 years. Or never (for example Autodesk was supposed to do 3DSMAX from scratch in 2005 and I'm still waiting ... instead they decided to buy MAYA, which was more expensive in less time, or less expensive in long time than pay the hours of new workers, and they were satisfied). Sometimes it is easier to use the wallet than the head. Does that mean that your workers are incompetent? No. They are simply business decisions based (I suppose) on market statistics.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

Exactly and if people ACTUALLY paid attention during the presentation, FFS there's a god damn co-processor purely dedicated to their new ID-based storage access API. I remember Moore's Law is Dead saying a while ago that MS was originally planning to go with a 1.2-1.8GB/s drive without a custom decompressor for the Series X UNTIL they found out about what Sony was doing with their SSD tech. If him and his sources are anything to go by and that's true, just let that sink in for a moment before going to ramble on about how Microsoft's "SOFTWARE EXPERIENCE" is gonna help them close the gap with Sony's SSD tech.

Saying its leagues ahead makes sense and lines up with other rumours or apparent leaks. Like that one the other day with the 12 vs 10 boxes dev opinion and 2.5 - 5x faster, for me it's got to be in io.

I clicked on that Aaron Greenberg and colteastwood twitter link and was having a look through some comments, I know why do it but its amusing sometimes, but I came across this.



See the response...

It was off a random guy but is it true? Is this just what that '100gb instantly' is? So is it just worded to sound like something amazing but is just the space in the ssd they can draw from at that ssd speed?

Basically just marketing speak and a lot falling for it and using it to level the ssd arguments?

 

[HAL-01]

It was off a random guy but is it true? Is this just what that '100gb instantly' is? So is it just worded to sound like something amazing but is just the space in the ssd they can draw from at that ssd speed?

Basically just marketing speak and a lot falling for it and using it to level the ssd arguments?

Yeah, they don't have a hidden superfast memory pool, it's just paging 100gb from the ssd at normal transfer speeds

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

Saying its leagues ahead makes sense and lines up with other rumours or apparent leaks. Like that one the other day with the 12 vs 10 boxes dev opinion and 2.5 - 5x faster, for me it's got to be in io.

I clicked on that Aaron Greenberg and colteastwood twitter link and was having a look through some comments, I know why do it but its amusing sometimes, but I came across this.



See the response...

It was off a random guy but is it true? Is this just what that '100gb instantly' is? So is it just worded to sound like something amazing but is just the space in the ssd they can draw from at that ssd speed?

Basically just marketing speak and a lot falling for it and using it to level the ssd arguments?

Did you expect they have 100GB Ram or Vram?
Yes it is what it is.
They still have to use their 2,4GB/4,8GB throughput.

You know that why MS is so good with marketing.
They blurt out some random stuff and most xbox Fans don't even understand it.
They make up their own stories without any knowledge how it really work.
It's a bit sad to watch.

 

[kensama]

Yeah, they don't have a hidden superfast memory pool, it's just paging 100gb from the ssd at normal transfer speeds

The true question is why MS let do this.
Honestly that's weird that even official PR use those fanboys, with high level of shitty word continue this.

 

[megreotsugua]

"Both first and third-party PS5 titles that offer new gaming experiences are in the works, and we'll be introducing a strong lineup soon." President and CEO Kenichiro Yoshida

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

Yeah, they don't have a hidden superfast memory pool, it's just paging 100gb from the ssd at normal transfer speeds

Did you expect they have 100GB Ram or Vram?
Yes it is what it is.
They still have to use their 2,4GB/4,8GB throughput.

You know that why MS is so good with marketing. They say blurt out some random stuff and most xbox Fans don't even understand it. They make up their own stories without any knowledge how it really work.
It's a bit sad to watch.

I didn't think they did, just wasn't entirely sure what they meant by it, it sounded like marketing nonsense.

LOL at people using this in arguments to offset the PS5 IO breakthroughs.

 

[ksdixon]

What's this AI partnership between Sony and MS? Anything to-do with gaming, or is this search/virtual assistant/chat bot shite?

I thought they had an agreement where Sony would use MS Azure servers as the backend for PSN? What's happening with that, and how would it affect PSNow/Gaikai/Remote Play?

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

The true question is why MS let do this.
Honestly that's weird that even official PR use those fanboys, with high level of shitty word continue this.

Why not?
Seems like most companys like to take advantage of gullible people.
I mean you can see it everywhere all day.

Thats actually a real problem in modern society.
People don't even try to unterstand what some company tells them, they just go "yay sounds good take my money".
Then of course they start to fight for their product which they paid for.

Been there done that in my youth.
Quite glad I'm not so gullible and invested anymore.
Beeing sceptic about stuff is a healthy attitude. As long as you don't overdo it like "Flat-Earthers" and "Corona-Hoax" or "Deep State / Qanon" kind of people.

 

[kensama]

Why not?
Seems like most companys like to take advantage of gullible people.
I mean you can see it everywhere all day.

Thats actually a real problem in modern society.
People don't even try to unterstand what some company tells them, they just go "yay sounds good take my money".
Then of course they start to fight for their product which they paid for.

Been there done that in my youth.
Quite glad I'm not so gullible and invested anymore.
Beeing sceptic about stuff is a healthy attitude. As long as you don't overdo it like "Flat-Earthers" and "Corona-Hoax" or "Deep State / Qanon" kind of people.

Understand that, but that's not like this that MS will gain customer especially from those that have a better feeling with Sony or Nintendo IP IMO.

 

[RespawnX]

What's this AI partnership between Sony and MS? Anything to-do with gaming, or is this search/virtual assistant/chat bot shite?

I thought they had an agreement where Sony would use MS Azure servers as the backend for PSN? What's happening with that, and how would it affect PSNow/Gaikai/Remote Play?

Camera (sensors).
AI and gaming just starts. Will take a some time until we see real advantages.
Servers are servers. They are running the services, not more or less.

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

Understand that, but that's not like this that MS will gain customer especially from thise that have a better feeling with Sony or Nintendo IP IMO.

I might be pessimistic/dystopian.
But I feel like this whole connectivity/social networking thing is making people stupid.
it's like an accelerated degree of mental deterioration.
In any case I "feel" like the audience for this kind of PR is growning faster then education can keep up.

 

[FranXico]

Yeah, they don't have a hidden superfast memory pool, it's just paging 100gb from the ssd at normal transfer speeds

Mind you, it is fast. The XsX has a pretty good SSD

 

[kensama]

Mind you, it is fast. The XsX has a pretty good SSD

Nobody said (and particularly on Sony fanboys side) that XSX is not powerful and worst that PS5 is stronger than XSX.
But that's a fact that MS fanboy are not happy with the XSX spec and i don't understand why? That's weird to see those MS fanboy trying to want PS5 as powerful as a PS1.

 

[ksdixon]

I hate the fact that due to some users talking about "Sony Tuesday", I now hope for some scrap of PS5 news every Tuesday despite knowing not to get my hopes up. Y U Do This!?

 

[DrKeo]

Block compression, whether named S3_TC (from Savage 3D technology originally) and debranded as generic DXTn, or using the newly DX10 BC/BCPACK moniker is hardly the topic. The important point is still about it being a lossy compressor, to offset storage bandwidth deficiency against lossless textures.

It seems you don't quite appreciate the difference in lossy formats, say comparing BC to jpeg for instance, if you feel my speculation about using BCpack textures could result in flashing pixels if sampling on an error.

Unlike jpeg, S3_TC/DXT compression is better at retaining hard edge details - because you can guide the block compressor to prioritize what it wants to retain.. The downside being that discontinuity errors are then more likely for what it was prepared to lose, because the compressor hasn't treated the image as a complete signal like jpeg does. Jpegs will lose precise detail at the expensive of retaining the overall shape of the signal as best it can through the compression ratios - which wouldn't cause harsh discontinuity errors.

Obviously lossy is, well, lossy, so you can't retain 100% of the detail. But I have news for you, games have been using BC for ages and if you look at large BC7 compressed textures at ~50%-60%, they look indistinguishable from the original texture (except for alpha). So as much as you like FUD on the XSX, I doubt even DF analysis videos could tell the difference, especially after all the layers of post processing, filtering and reconstruction happes. I mean, it's so ironic that you seem so glade that UE5 is sub-4K and reconstructing to 4K because native doesn't matter anymore (or in other words, the image gets new pixels not in the original data, creating artifacts much worse than BCn compression) and at the same time worrying that XSX textures won't look good because of lossy compression.

As for the discussion about pop-in. you are going to have to work much harder to make that point.

Problem 1. Epic said the data for each frame gets crunched new every frame - obviously you can't fit the billions of polygons and 8K texture source data in memory, and only what gets rendered goes in the 16GB - so classic pop-in as you are describing doesn't exist in the scene, unless you are claiming Epic engineers are wrong.

It does, but it's not classic pop-in, it's more like Tasselation pop-in. The model you see in frame exists on screen and in memory while it is rendered, but when you want to render the next frame you don't discard it and start from scratch, you just stream in the new data, the delta. If you miss your frame target, what you get is the same model with fewer triangles, just like you can see every time there is a camera cut in the demo.

Problem 2. pop-in is visualized by seeing higher quality LoD/mipmap arrival over multiple frames. The video source is lossy compressed through h.264/h.265 so no way of telling if it was video encoding or engine errors, and the handful of native stills won't be for 3 consecutive frames at this point.

It wasn't video encoding, common. Look at the video, you can see the data streaming and fill in. It's not textures, it's polygons.

Problem 3. The scene is of an Ancient building in the desert, and IMHO that picture actually just looks correct. The parts of the building have been artistically aged differently to make it look organic - like the wind and sand have damaged it differently - as it should be, rather than some perfect shinny render of the same geometry multiple times without any flaws.

No, just no. One frame it's low poly, after a few frames the polygons fill in. It's the same statue on both images only a few frames later.

 

[Neo Blaster]

"Both first and third-party PlayStation 5 titles that offer new gaming experiences are in the works, and we'll be introducing a strong lineup SOON" President and CEO Kenichiro Yoshida

 

[xacto]

"We're very happy to be partnering with Microsoft on the development of AI Solutions, their use of RDNA3 during development over our lowly pathetic RDNA2 really helped to make our AI sensing better."

Timdog, probably.

I think it was RDNA 1.5 rather than RDNA 2. Get your facts straight

 

[xacto]

"Both first and third-party PS5 titles that offer new gaming experiences are in the works, and we'll be introducing a strong lineup soon." President and CEO Kenichiro Yoshida

I am waiting for the posts that will accuse Yoshida of lying, just like they did with Sweeney, Cerny and all the rest of them.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Obviously lossy is, well, lossy, so you can't retain 100% of the detail. But I have news for you, games have been using BC for ages and if you look at large BC7 compressed textures at ~50%-60%, they look indistinguishable from the original texture (except for alpha). So as much as you like FUD on the XSX, I doubt even DF analysis videos could tell the difference, especially after all the layers of post processing, filtering and reconstruction happes. I mean, it's so ironic that you seem so glade that UE5 is sub-4K and reconstructing to 4K because native doesn't matter anymore (or in other words, the image gets new pixels not in the original data, creating artifacts much worse than BCn compression) and at the same time worrying that XSX textures won't look good because of lossy compression.


It does, but it's not classic pop-in, it's more like Tasselation pop-in. The model you see in frame exists on screen and in memory while it is rendered, but when you want to render the next frame you don't discard it and start from scratch, you just stream in the new data, the delta. If you miss your frame target, what you get is the same model with fewer triangles, just like you can see every time there is a camera cut in the demo.


It wasn't video encoding, common. Look at the video, you can see the data streaming and fill in. It's not textures, it's polygons.



No, just no. One frame it's low poly, after a few frames the polygons fill in. It's the same statue on both images only a few frames later.

You are missing the point. These textures are being used by software renderers in UE5 - if the historical talks by Carmack/Sweeney for going beyond geometry are to be believed -discontinuity errors on textures that are mapping on micro-polygons could be a real problem. If you can't appreciate the point I've tried to make - that others have - then I'm happy to leave you with your opinion unchanged.

Your going to have to prove your pop-in isn't video encoding - which obviously you can't because macro blocking issues look like mipmap pop-in with a moving camera. Throw shade on the video if you like, it doesn't really matter, because the capabilities of the UE5 look great on the PS5, and if you are splitting hairs about that video, then I think you might need to brace yourself for other trade offs coming to your preferred XsX version, which I expect to have more noticeable compromises because of the weaker IO system in the XsX.

 

[ToadMan]

Saying its leagues ahead makes sense and lines up with other rumours or apparent leaks. Like that one the other day with the 12 vs 10 boxes dev opinion and 2.5 - 5x faster, for me it's got to be in io.

I clicked on that Aaron Greenberg and colteastwood twitter link and was having a look through some comments, I know why do it but its amusing sometimes, but I came across this.



See the response...

It was off a random guy but is it true? Is this just what that '100gb instantly' is? So is it just worded to sound like something amazing but is just the space in the ssd they can draw from at that ssd speed?

Basically just marketing speak and a lot falling for it and using it to level the ssd arguments?

MS offers 100gb of instant data - they just mean bypass the file system and address SSD storage direct like it was a slow portion of RAM.

Sony offers 852Gb of instant data using MS's definition - at least according to what has been released so far.

The 100gb on Xsex is a limitation compared to PS5. Still 100gb is a fair chunk of memory and ms have worked on things like compression so I don't think it will actually impact anything.

EDIT - Also to mention both Xsex and PS5 have a Flash File System so data can be looked up in the same way one would do it with a HDD. The above direct addressing systems are just faster in some scenarios.

 

[FranXico]

MS offers 100gb of instant data - they just mean bypass the file system and address SSD storage direct like it was a slow portion of RAM.

Sony offers 852Gb of instant data using MS's definition - at least according to what has been released so far.

The 100gb on Xsex is a limitation compared to PS5. Still 100gb is a fair chunk of memory and ms have worked on things like compression so I don't think it will actually impact anything.

EDIT - Also to mention both Xsex and PS5 have a Flash File System so data can be looked up in the same way one would do it with a HDD. The above direct addressing systems are just faster in some scenarios.

The 100GB number is just referring to the game installation. There is no artificially imposed limit. The entire game data is quickly accessible, without the seek times by virtue of being installed in an SSD.

 

[Niked]

This looks real...

 

[mitchman]

MS offers 100gb of instant data - they just mean bypass the file system and address SSD storage direct like it was a slow portion of RAM.

Sony offers 852Gb of instant data using MS's definition - at least according to what has been released so far.

The 100gb on Xsex is a limitation compared to PS5. Still 100gb is a fair chunk of memory and ms have worked on things like compression so I don't think it will actually impact anything.

EDIT - Also to mention both Xsex and PS5 have a Flash File System so data can be looked up in the same way one would do it with a HDD. The above direct addressing systems are just faster in some scenarios.

As I've written before, it's borderline lies coming out of MS on this one and people with little technical knowledge fall for it.
They are actually trying to make people believe this technology is somehow new and revolutionary. It's not, mapping disk data to a virtual address space has been around for many years.

mmap - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[T-Cake]

The 100gb on Xsex is a limitation compared to PS5.

That 100GB number is just an arbitrary figure plucked out of thin air as an example of a game's size. It can address however much data the game occupies, be it 42GB or 242GB.

 

[martino]

As I've written before, it's borderline lies coming out of MS on this one and people with little technical knowledge fall for it.
They are actually trying to make people believe this technology is somehow new and revolutionary. It's not, mapping disk data to a virtual address space has been around for many years.

mmap - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

it's a new feature of DX12U and XSX , they comminucate about it.
Is it a problem when sony talks about geometry shader and RT when turing do it for more than 1 year ?

 

[mitchman]

it's a new feature of DX12U and XSX , they comminucate about it.
Is it a problem when sony talks about geometry shader and RT when turing do it for more than 1 year ?

If GS and realtime RT was 20+ years old technology, re-implemented and given a fancy name, yes then it would be disingenuous too. And I'm pretty sure it's not even new in XBox, any OS with virtual memory supports this and has for many years. PS4 and PS5 certainly also support is.

 

[martino]

If GS and realtime RT was 20+ years old technology, re-implemented and given a fancy name, yes then it would be disingenuous too. And I'm pretty sure it's not even new in XBox, any OS with virtual memory supports this and has for many years. PS4 and PS5 certainly also support is.

I see you're relying on feelings more than information to draw conclusion so let's stop it here.

 

[IkarugaDE]

This looks real...

I just don't know if you're serious. But no, it's not. The initiator of the video (as far as I remember) even wrote that it was his idea of DualSense.

 

[husomc]

Depends what you mean by that since there will be instances where the developers will throw parity aside and take advantage of each platforms strengths.

Or MS could pay 3rd parties to litter games with raytraced mirrors. DF will have a field day comparing that scenario.

 

[Agnostic2020]

I just don't know if you're serious. But no, it's not. The initiator of the video (as far as I remember) even wrote that it was his idea of DualSense.

Dual sense in 2077 probably

 

[Audiophile]

The "100GB" struck my as just an overly specific example of a AAA game's assets.

The idea that there's a 100GB partition on the SSD that allows you faster access than the rest of it makes no sense. It's an SSD, you ask for data from wherever you need it whenever you need it and you get it. There are no classical seek times.

It's neither a positive thing for the XSX (100GB with faster access) nor a negative thing for the XSX (a hard limit and everything outside of it is slower), it's just not a thing at all.

This is a classic example of fanboys trying to find something to brag about without understanding it, then people on the other side of the aisle trying to spin it and use it against them. There's nothing to see here folks.

 

[IkarugaDE]

Dual sense in 2077 probably

To be honest: it looks cool, no question. The possibilities offered by the extended functions would also be exciting.

But I don't want to know how quickly this fucker could have mechanical problems. Similar to the smartphones with the camera that moves out of the display.

 

[zubairali2]

sony tuesday brings you a new ps4 pro limited edition

 

[DrKeo]

You are missing the point. These textures are being used by software renderers in UE5 - if the historical talks by Carmack/Sweeney for going beyond geometry are to be believed -discontinuity errors on textures that are mapping on micro-polygons could be a real problem. If you can't appreciate the point I've tried to make - that others have - then I'm happy to leave you with your opinion unchanged.

Sorry, it's the other way around, you are the one who needs to prove that a high-quality lossy compression like BC7 will cause a real problem using micro polygons. Considering BC is one of the most popular methods to compress textures in games and one of the largest console makers decided to have a hardware unit dedicated just for that, I'm pretty sure the requirement for proof is on you.

Your going to have to prove your pop-in isn't video encoding - which obviously you can't because macro blocking issues look like mipmap pop-in with a moving camera. Throw shade on the video if you like, it doesn't really matter, because the capabilities of the UE5 look great on the PS5, and if you are splitting hairs about that video, then I think you might need to brace yourself for other trade offs coming to your preferred XsX version, which I expect to have more noticeable compromises because of the weaker IO system in the XsX.

It's easy, there you go.
Before - when not enough polygons streamed in:

After - when enough polygons streamed in:

took me 30 seconds, took these screenshots myself.

If you think that's streaming encoding, you don't know what streaming encoding artifacts look like. Calling me "splitting hairs" on the PS5 is losing touch with the actual argument we are having. My point was never against the PS5, it was actually the other way around, that this system streams in polygons and textures for the next frame and if it fails, all you see is just a lower quality asset for a fraction of a second so all of these problems will be worse on XSX. But for some reason, you've decided to go with a strawman, that somehow I'm attacking the PS5 for having some form of extremely gentle pop-in during 0.01% of the demo. That is not the point, the point was to show you what happens when the SSD can't keep up (which happened in these images I've brought because of a camera cut).

 

[LED Guy?]

Hmm I feel like Sony will DESTROY Xbox in the coming days/weeks just like they did with their unbelievable full-blown next-generation graphics, Unreal Engine 5 demo, and just like they did when The Last of Us Part 2 trailer and Ghost of Tsushima 18 minutes gameplay dropped!!

I hope Xbox comes back and fight against PlayStation because the 1st impressions of the Xbox Series X "gameplay" was funny and trash, while PlayStation 5 1st impressions were Unreal Engine 5 running in real-time on even old weaker PS5 dev kit, not even the newer ones, Sony showed us something that is NEXT-GEN, something that cannot be done on previous generation of consoles.

Like they say, "First Impressions Last". So I hope they focus, I mean it's already over for them.

 

[Audiophile]

Someone's reply made me laugh... PS5 is cooled by suction power!

 

[LED Guy?]

Sorry, it's the other way around, you are the one who needs to prove that a high-quality lossy compression like BC7 will cause a real problem using micro polygons. Considering BC is one of the most popular methods to compress textures in games and one of the largest console makers decided to have a hardware unit dedicated just for that, I'm pretty sure the requirement for proof is on you.


It's easy, there you go.
Before - when not enough polygons streamed in:

After - when enough polygons streamed in:

If you think that's streaming encoding, you don't know what streaming encoding artifacts look like. Calling me "splitting hairs" on the PS5 is losing touch with the actual argument we are having. My point was never against the PS5, it was actually the other way around, that this system streams in polygons and textures for the next frame and if it fails, all you see is just a lower quality asset for a fraction of a second so all of these problems will be worse on XSX. But for some reason, you've decided to go with a strawman, that somehow I'm attacking the PS5 for having some form of extremely gentle pop-in during 0.01% of the demo. That is not the point, the point was to show you what happens when the SSD can't keep up.

OK? Gonna chime in on this, let's say even if this happened, you cannot conclude this as "SSD can't keep up" because there are many other places where we can all be sure are much more demanding and much faster and yet they didn't have problems at all, like the fly-through in the end, that part is much more demanding so inherently, we will see pop-ins and such "streaming issues" and "SSDs can't keep up"......but we didn't see any.

So we can conclude that what you're saying is kinda wrong and surely splitting hairs, you realize that you are looking at a tech demo on an old PS5 dev kit, not the latest one, and even if that happened, there were way more stress points in that gameplay demo that were much worse on the SSD and much more demanding, yet we didn't see ANY pop-in or anything like that.

This here completely renders your notice or point as IRRELEVANT.

 

[DrKeo]

OK? Gonna chime in on this, let's say even if this happened, you cannot conclude this as "SSD can't keep up" because there many other places where we can all be sure are much more demanding and much faster and yet they didn't have problems at all, like the fly-through in the end, that part is much more demanding so inherently, we will see such "streaming issues" and "SSDs can't keep up"......but we didn't see any.

So we can conclude that what you're saying is kinda wrong and surely splitting hairs, you realize that you are looking at a tech demo on an old PS5 dev kit, not the latest one, and even if that happened, there were way more stress points in that gameplay demo that were much worse on the SSD, yet we didn't see ANY pop-in or anything like that.

This here completely renders your notice or point as IRRELEVANT.

There isn't a more demanding scene, this is after a camera cut. A 100% fresh frame is the harders work the SSD can have with a system that streams to the next frame. It's easier to stream something flying a million KMH than a camera cut in a next-frame streaming system.

And you too are missing the point, which is funny. What do you think is my point? That the PS5 SSD is bad? Did my whole post go over your head?

 

[LED Guy?]

There isn't a more demanding scene, because this is after a camera cut. A 100% fresh frame is the harders work the SSD can have with a system that streams to the next frame. It's easier to stream something flying a million KMH than a camera cut in a next-frame streaming system.

When you are at a very high speed and revealing more geometry onto the screen while being at a very high speed is way more demanding than a cut to a frame, there's no other way around this, my guy.

There were many other cuts and were more demanding, like the 500 statues cut-frame and they didn't have any pop-ins at all, surely they are more demanding than a cut-frame to a wall.

 

[mitchman]

I see you're relying on feelings more than information to draw conclusion so let's stop it here.

I rely on technical knowledge of software, which I have been a developer of for many years, to write about this. No, I have no feelings in particular about this except when borderline lies are being used to convince less technical people, like yourself, about some technology.

 

[Shmunter]

Tim Sweeney Explains Exactly Why the PS5's SSD and I/O Architecture Is Way More Efficient Than PC's

Epic founder Tim Sweeney explained exactly why the PlayStation 5's SSD and I/O Architecture is way more efficient than PC's.

wccftech.com

It should be noted that Tim Sweeney has discussed the PlayStation 5 since that has been the company's primary focus, as Epic has been working for 'quite a long time' alongside Sony on that Unreal Engine 5 demo. However, the Xbox Series X also features its own Velocity Architecture which is designed to 'radically improve asset streaming' and to 'effectively multiply available memory' thanks to a custom NVMe SSD (rated at 2.4 GB/s with raw data), a dedicated hardware decompression block, the new Sampler Feedback Streaming technology and last but not least, the new DirectStorage API.

The latter component is particularly relevant because Microsoft already confirmed plans to bring it to Windows PC, too. According to Microsoft, DirectStorage can significantly reduce CPU overhead for I/O operations (such as those happening in the background to load the next parts of the world) from several cores to a small fraction of a single core. Needless to say, this could severely diminish the PC I/O issues mentioned above by Tim Sweeney.

Let them Dream?

 

[LED Guy?]

Tim Sweeney Explains Exactly Why the PS5's SSD and I/O Architecture Is Way More Efficient Than PC's

Epic founder Tim Sweeney explained exactly why the PlayStation 5's SSD and I/O Architecture is way more efficient than PC's.

wccftech.com

It should be noted that Tim Sweeney has discussed the PlayStation 5 since that has been the company's primary focus, as Epic has been working for 'quite a long time' alongside Sony on that Unreal Engine 5 demo. However, the Xbox Series X also features its own Velocity Architecture which is designed to 'radically improve asset streaming' and to 'effectively multiply available memory' thanks to a custom NVMe SSD (rated at 2.4 GB/s with raw data), a dedicated hardware decompression block, the new Sampler Feedback Streaming technology and last but not least, the new DirectStorage API.

The latter component is particularly relevant because Microsoft already confirmed plans to bring it to Windows PC, too. According to Microsoft, DirectStorage can significantly reduce CPU overhead for I/O operations (such as those happening in the background to load the next parts of the world) from several cores to a small fraction of a single core. Needless to say, this could severely diminish the PC I/O issues mentioned above by Tim Sweeney.

Let them Dream?

Yup, let them dream.