Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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MasterCornholio said:
I wouldn't say half. But it could be possible that some of the custom hardware will do some of the work for developers. Things they they used to do themselves are now handled automatically by the hardware. Thus the possibility of reducing development time. No idea how much time it will reduce though.
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A safe bet would be for 0 need for complex solutions to streaming. You want it, you got it, whether open world or walking sim.

Although that translating to other platforms is a non starter, so we shall see how it plays out..
 
MasterCornholio said:
We saw what happened when that Dealer discord FUD got out of control. But I don't think anyone will be treating Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem like he's a big shot YouTuber, developer or insider.
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Probably not - but repeat a lie enough times and people will believe. And as stated earlier, the more well-articulated you are, the easier it is to get people to believe your outrageous claims.
 
FeiRR said:
Is there any realtime footage from Xbox Series X available to date, except for last gen ports of games like SoD2, GoW5 and Minecraft with RT? If not, why? It's less than half a year till the release.

IT WORRIES ME. /s
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Has Microsoft ever shown anything realtime before E3 of launch year?
Gediminas said:
Cerny in road to PS5 said that you need at least 7,5GB/s to reach standart PS5 SSD. and how he said it, body language tells me that number could be even higher. we'll see.
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Did he though? Because the bus they are running that expansion m.2 on is likely limited to 7GB/s.
 
Bo_Hazem said:
That's really interesting, never seen it or heard about it. Would be great indeed to easily remaster them. But modders on PC usually do that, don't they?



I doubt it'll still be less capable than PS5's SSD, and it'll need more work from the i/o to overcome its defeciencies as Cerny said we are comparing apples vs oranges:

Timestamped: Listen until 23:39




It's pretty clear that for game design that 2 priority level is still problematic, at least for 1st party games.
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But that is my point... Cerny says you will can run games normally from standard SSDs to be launched late this year.
That means you don't really need what is inside PS5 SSD... you need the custom I/O silicon of course but the custom silicon is the same no matter the SSD.

I can understand if you say to match the custom PS5 SSD you need standard SSDs with 7GB/s or more... that is what Cerny hints... the 12 lanes and priorities* are not needed it just make it more efficient but you can overcome that with faster speeds... after 7GB/s SSDs it will be launched the 9GB/s SSDs ones these ones will probably runs games better than PS5 SSDs.

Is the priorities attached to the SSD or custom silicom?
 
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DaGamez said:
Has Microsoft ever shown anything realtime before E3 of launch year?


Did he though? Because the bus they are running that expansion m.2 on is likely limited to 7GB/s.
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your nonsense is limited. not enough time in xbox discord group?

through i made i mistake, he said 7GB/s not 7,5GB/s.
 
ethomaz said:
That means you don't really need what is inside PS5 SSD... you need the custom I/O silicon of course but the custom silicon is the same no matter the SSD.
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I feel like this bears repeating because apparently it has become the single hardest thing to understand about it. Sony really should've gone with some clever branding for it, like "Blink You Miss It Architecture".
 
ToadMan said:
I just meant marketing SSD tech - absolutely marketing games is something Sony are very good at.

But I am disappointed at the studios Sony has canned. I mean this coming gen was made for a new Wipeout or Motorstorm type game, even a Twisted Metal. Fast action and detailed graphics in open environments would really have shown the possibilities of the SSD tech to change game design. But Sony closed Evolution and Liverpool and doesn't seem to be doing anything with those IPs which were much loved.

Same with Driveclub ... so now we're stuck waiting for Polyphony to find a way to get a 240Hz physics model running... They'll probably have a demo ready a couple of years after PS6 has launched.

I don't know if I can understand Sony's decisions on that, but MS did the same at the end of the 360 gen. Now they've started picking up studios again perhaps it will wake up Sony too.
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Yeah this is seriously disappointing and a sizeable chink in the Sony armour. Sometimes you need loss leaders, people that come for those titles will buy other ones too. Not to mention it all adds to strengthening the brand. Bad Sony.
 
Am I getting ripped apart here? :lollipop_tears_of_joy:

source.gif


I'm still pages behind, will reply to all quotations later.
 
ethomaz said:
But that is my point... Cerny says you will can run games normally from standard SSDs to be launched late this year.
That means you don't really need what is inside PS5 SSD... you need the custom I/O silicon of course but the custom silicon is the same no matter the SSD.

I can understand if you say to match the custom PS5 SSD you need standard SSDs with 7GB/s or more... that is what Cerny hints... the 12 lanes and priorities* are not needed it just make it more efficient but you can overcome that with faster speeds... after 7GB/s SSDs it will be launched the 9GB/s SSDs ones these ones will probably runs games better than PS5 SSDs.

Is the priorities attached to the SSD or custom silicom?
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The SSD Itself has the 6 priority lanes, otherwise the issue about matching speeds would actually be pointless.
 
TBiddy said:
So the new narrative is that the PS5 SSD cuts development time in half? Is there anything that bloody SSD can't do?
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Could you please stop complaining for once and start debating and discussing? Let us see what you have and make a healthy outcome/conclusion.
 
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FeiRR said:
My Pro also had that "toothpaste" badly applied but a very good one applied correctly afterwards didn't help much with the jet engine.
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My pro had the exact same "toothpaste" badly applied. I decided to finally clean my PS4 Pro that I purchased in 2017 and the poor console had never been cleaned or opened before up until then.

I took a few good hours to completely clean it out. The 2 games that made my console wail in anguish were Battlefield V and Division 2. They were used as tests basically but I think I prepped well.

My experience is absolutely different from your own as I'll explain but basically, opened it completely, cleaned and reapplied paste using Arctic Silver MX-4 also purchased a Samsung EVO 860 SSD (1tb), Arctic Silver "ArctiClean" (for cleaning the older thermal paste and prepping/reapplying the newer MX-4 paste) and FujiPoly Ultra Extreme XR-M Thermal Pad (60x50x1.0) for applying to the Semiconductors and the GDDR5. I'm grateful you know just how loud that console can get lol, exactly like an aircraft but I am thoroughly impressed with the results. It's been a bit over a month and the damned console doesn't make a sound. It is absolutely quiet and runs extremely well considering I haven't had literally one "CE-34878" error in Division 2 which was absolutely rampant before I opened the console. I believe that may be due to the HDD but I'm not too sure.

Either way, my experience has been that cleaning and then reapplying the higher quality thermal paste and padding paid off in spades and the results are extremely apparent. The jet engine is literally no more 🍻.
 
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TBiddy said:
So the new narrative is that the PS5 SSD cuts development time in half? Is there anything that bloody SSD can't do?
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What "new narrative"? This was made clear from the beginning.

Artists take a lot of time making different LOD versions of their models.
Now that data can be streamed faster, games will very often only need one high detail model. Yes, it makes development faster.
 
Posted already? Probably not much to some, but I don't usually hear Max mention much about what he's heard regarding next-gen.



I seriously won't mind the silence from Sony if this lineup turns out to be good.
 
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TBiddy said:
Games will become more complicated because of the SSDs. At least that is what many people preach here on Gaf - you know, the whole ability to create whatever worlds you want etc.

I think development times will be as long as they are now.
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Yes, you know better. A quotation from people who know "less" than what you do:

In fact, according to Quentin Staes-Polet, General Manager, India and SEA, of Epic Games, Unreal Engine 5 is built very specifically to "chase" photorealistic graphics in games. Speaking in an interview with Indian Express, Staes-Polet said that not only does the new engine allow developers to save a lot of time while making their games, it also lets them come that much closer to "full reality simulation."

"We are chasing photorealism with Unreal Engine 5," Staes-Polet said. "The new engine will save a lot of time and at the same time, it gets us one step closer to full reality simulation."

"With Unreal Engine 5, you can take 4K Cinema quality 3D assets and ingest them in the engine as it is and work with them," he added. "So that's like a massive change as you can save a lot of time and on top of it, it brings photorealistic gaming in the future."

redirect.viglink.com

Unreal Engine 5 Is “Chasing Photorealism” – Epic Games

redirect.viglink.com redirect.viglink.com

Thanks to JareBear: Remastered JareBear: Remastered for that quotation.
 
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MasterCornholio said:
Which is why I don't really worry about that kind of stuff.
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I rarely bother as well. But there's a limit somewhere.

Bo_Hazem said:
Yes, you know better. A quotation from people who know "less" than what you do:
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How does "save a lot of time" equal "cut development time in half"?

Also, it's awesome to see how the General Manager of Epic Games India is stating how many man-hours can be saved by using the product his employer creates. Obviously a very trustworthy and neutral source.
 
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TBiddy said:
How does "save a lot of time" equal "cut development time in half"?
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The first is fact, the second is my personal assumption. You can discuss and debate in an appropriate way saying otherwise, and I can back my point as well. Let the readers choose what they think is right, and everybody is welcome into the discussion without throwing shit around and acting like some kind of authority.
 
Bo_Hazem said:
The first is fact, the second is my personal assumption. You can discuss and debate in an appropriate way saying otherwise, and I can back my point as well. Let the readers choose what they think is right, and everybody is welcome into the discussion without throwing shit around and acting like some kind of authority.
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The former is debatable and the latter is outrageous. Having a super-fast SSD is not going to cut game development time in half (or more).

PS. I haven't thrown shit. You were the one who wrote I needed to stop whining, although you later edited that.
 
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TBiddy said:
The former is debatable and the latter is outrageous. Having a super-fast SSD is not going to cut game development time in half (or more).
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Could you provide how did you come to that conclusion? Here, a map section in less than one hour:





In 2 hours:





Counter strike map in 1 hour:





While artists are making their worlds, story is being crafted in parallel, character movements could even be created in engine without an actor at this point, or you can go the extra mile. Now, please don't give me one poor sentence, explain your point. Guess what? Even indies will up their quality, one guy made this:

 
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TBiddy said:
The former is debatable and the latter is outrageous. Having a super-fast SSD is not going to cut game development time in half (or more).

PS. I haven't thrown shit. You were the one who wrote I needed to stop whining, although you later edited that.
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I definitely do not think it can cut the development time in half, BUT, if you watch the next developer conference you will see all the time and effort that the team behind SpiderMan had to put into making the game just because the slow HDD inside the PS4 and PS4Pro, all the techniques to make it work right, duplicating elements, hiding stuff from the user when is moving fast, putting the map into chunks, designing a map that is convenient to do so, putting high buildings not just because is New York but because they need to hide what is behind all those buildings, limiting the quality of the assets such as textures, and file sizes...



Take a look at it and tell me how many weeks or even months do you think they could have saved themself without the need of implementing all those technics...
 
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B_Boss said:
My pro had the exact same "toothpaste" badly applied. I decided to finally clean my PS4 Pro that I purchased in 2017 and the poor console had never been cleaned or opened before up until then.

I took a few good hours to completely clean it out. The 2 games that made my console wail in anguish were Battlefield V and Division 2. They were used as tests basically but I think I prepped well.

My experience is absolutely different from your own as I'll explain but basically, opened it completely, cleaned and reapplied paste using Arctic Silver MX-4 also purchased a Samsung EVO 860 SSD (1tb), Arctic Silver "ArctiClean" (for cleaning the older thermal paste and prepping/reapplying the newer MX-4 paste) and FujiPoly Ultra Extreme XR-M Thermal Pad (60x50x1.0) for applying to the Semiconductors and the GDDR5. I'm grateful you know just how loud that console can get lol, exactly like an aircraft but I am thoroughly impressed with the results. It's been a bit over a month and the damned console doesn't make a sound. It is absolutely quiet and runs extremely well considering I haven't had literally one "CE-34878" error in Division 2 which was absolutely rampant before I opened the console. I believe that may be due to the HDD but I'm not too sure.

Either way, my experience has been that cleaning and then reapplying the higher quality thermal paste and padding paid off in spades and the results are extremely apparent. The jet engine is literally no more 🍻.
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I've said it multiple times in this thread, but it is well worth backing up, formatting the PS4(or Pro HDD) on a PC, reinstalling with USB firmware before opening any PS4/Pro for thermal pasting.

You changing the the HDD did the same task, and using an SSD should alleviate any read or write issues on a slow laptop HDD (that may cause heat issues) even more. I wonder if FeiRR FeiRR changed the HDD to an SSD or did a external HDD format and restore if his Pro would also see a noise reduction - like my friend's pro did.
 
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shaddam said:
I keep reading here and on reddit that there is one specific xbox discord group. Is it real or just a meme?
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I believe it was dissolved after somebody exposed it (It was real until March/April)... or perhaps it just moved to some other place or group.
But it was real... some GAFers take part into it.
 
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TBiddy said:
The former is debatable and the latter is outrageous. Having a super-fast SSD is not going to cut game development time in half (or more).

PS. I haven't thrown shit. You were the one who wrote I needed to stop whining, although you later edited that.
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have you any evidence that super fast SSD can't cut game development in half? did you done any research? can you share it? do you have experience in development of games like 10+ years? and 1+ years with PS5?
 
Is PS5's APU monolithic like Series X? Or is it based on chiplet design?
To me, it felt like a chiplet design from Cerny's presentation slide: CPU/GPU in one die and a separate die that acts as an I/O complex housing DMA controller, PCIe lanes, I/O processors, and whatnot. What do y'all think?
 
MasterCornholio said:
We saw what happened when that Dealer discord FUD got out of control. But I don't think anyone will be treating Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem like he's a big shot YouTuber, developer or insider.
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Did I claim that I'm a developer or an insider though? Didn't I just choke that post with several, direct quotations? Did you even gave it the time to check it out, as they're all precisely timestamped? Do you have anything to add like normal contributors to the thread here? Remember what I said at the very end:

More educated people in the matter may contribute or correct me here.

www.neogaf.com

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

Only good thibg about e3 was how we all know for most part what to expect especially on new gens, know is mini episode with little or no information
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com
 
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Bo_Hazem said:
Did I claim that I'm a developer or an insider though?
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Just relax I'm not your enemy here.

I'm just saying that your not really trying to do anything bad here. You are just participating in speculation like most of us are.

I was just telling TBiddy TBiddy that your not here to do any damage like Tim Dog, R600, FCRC, TFlivesmatters, rightisright, Meirl etc..
 
MasterCornholio said:
Just relax I'm not your enemy here.

I'm just saying that your not really trying to do anything bad here. You are just participating in speculation like most of us are.

I was just telling TBiddy TBiddy that your not here to do any damage like Tim Dog, R600, FCRC, TFlivesmatters, rightisright, Meirl etc..
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The first time they baited me into console warring memes, now I'm only using rational discussions and debates. If someone can't say why he thinks something is wrong without solidifying his point, then he's not worth to be taken seriously.

Maybe my latest posts have hurt the XboxEra Discord using only facts and direct quotations from "Big Shots" not random people playing EU5 demo on Windows Media Player.

I won't bite the bait, I'll keep it informative, and that guy has already wasted enough of my time with his baseless accusations.
 
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Bo_Hazem said:
The first time they baited me to console warring memes, now I'm only using rational discussions and debates.
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Absolutely nothing wrong with that. That's what the speculation thread is for and if people don't want you to speculate then they should not participate in this thread.

I remember there was someone a while back that was reply banned because he complained about people speculating in the speculation thread. Nobody should be that guy.
 
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ToadMan said:
I took it to to mean the sustained access rather than the peak transfer rate. The way he described off the shelf SSDs as not meeting their stated perofrmance - seemed like he wasn't hopeful a 7gb/s drive would even sustain 5.5Gb/s...
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Sometimes I think Sony will have to go MS way and make proprietary drives just to be able to keep up to the internal SSD.
 
Neo Blaster said:
Sometimes I think Sony will have to go MS way and make proprietary drives just to be able to keep up to the internal SSD.
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Third parties will simply work with Sony to have PS5 compatible SSDs. You will see "PS5 compatible" in the front of the box and that's it.

I'm sure companies won't turn a blind eye at expanding their market.
 
Neo Blaster said:
Sometimes I think Sony will have to go MS way and make proprietary drives just to be able to keep up to the internal SSD.
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They already make memory cards, amazing ones for cameras and camcorders. I think they might work something out with Samsung or other memory makers. It's not just profitable for Sony, but it'll make those companies to have superior SSD tech that PC enthusiasts will kill for.
 
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