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[Snowdonhoffen]

Late night thoughts... what would the "most powerful console" narrative be if PS5 can render higher res textures (e.g. 8K textures on PS5 vs 4K textures on XSX) but Series X can render at a higher resolution (e.g. full 2160p on XSX vs 1800p on PS5)?

(These numbers are just for the sake of giving an example, not to start comparing GPUs)

 

[Thirty7ven]

Tim Sweeney trying to tell people but they don't get it.

 

[T-Cake]

Late night thoughts... what would the "most powerful console" narrative be if PS5 can render higher res textures (e.g. 8K textures on PS5 vs 4K textures on XSX) but Series X can render at a higher resolution (e.g. full 2160p on XSX vs 1800p on PS5)?

I'd prefer that option. Texture resolution is way more impactful than rendering resolution (if those are the correct terms). 1800p v 2160p is virtually indistinguishable. But Half Life 1 looks rubbish at 4K, compared to AC Odyssey at 1080p. It's all about those textures.

 

[yewles1]

Late night thoughts... what would the "most powerful console" narrative be if PS5 can render higher res textures (e.g. 8K textures on PS5 vs 4K textures on XSX) but Series X can render at a higher resolution (e.g. full 2160p on XSX vs 1800p on PS5)?

Either way, we're getting the equivalent of late '90's Hollywood CGI visuals in realtime for games on consoles, a feat some of us in our 30's now thought we'd be in our mid-50's before such a point was reached.

 

[Frederic]

Late night thoughts... what would the "most powerful console" narrative be if PS5 can render higher res textures (e.g. 8K textures on PS5 vs 4K textures on XSX) but Series X can render at a higher resolution (e.g. full 2160p on XSX vs 1800p on PS5)?

The UE5 demo is rumored to be around 300 GB in size. You won't see a lot of 8K textures, otherwise the games would be at least 1TB, won't even fit on the console lol

 

[FeiRR]

I am sure it will be cheaper than NeoGeo was in its time. Remember when a NeoGeo game cost approximately $ 240 (in Spain)? SuperNES games were not cheap either, some could cost $ 90 (in Spain) in the early 90s. In any case I prefer to pay $ 600 for a console that will last 6 years rather than $ 1000 for a phone that will last me 2 years and I will use it for anything but talking on the phone. Personal opinion.

I don't buy $1000 phones anymore because $500 ones work as well but I totally agree about consoles. I hate buying cheap things which break soon. Such a waste of money and bad environmental impact.

 

[Shmunter]

Late night thoughts... what would the "most powerful console" narrative be if PS5 can render higher res textures (e.g. 8K textures on PS5 vs 4K textures on XSX) but Series X can render at a higher resolution (e.g. full 2160p on XSX vs 1800p on PS5)?

PS5 is unquestionably a more advanced system, and definitely has more potential as a next gen system. Whether that potential materialises in a/b tests remains to be seen.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

Which makes Sony's solution even more useless for multiplatform Games.
For developing multiplatform Games devs always use the lowest common denominator

No way they would optimize their games based on a single platform SSD/IO. This is just nonsense.
For multiplatform Games we will only see improvements in loading times. That's it.

This is PS3 Cell all Over again.

Except the biggest third-party game engine that is designed to leverage fast low latency IO with scalable micropoly rendering tech. Yeah.

 

[geordiemp]

The UE5 demo is rumored to be around 300 GB in size. You won't see a lot of 8K textures, otherwise the games would be at least 1TB, won't even fit on the console lol

Source or FUD ? People were guessing 100 GB last time i looked

A dev already has a video showing how the cliff face of that demo reused 6 rocks cleverly.

This streaming tech is happening.

 

[Frederic]

PS5 is unquestionably a more advanced system, and definitely has more potential as a next gen system. Whether that potential materialises in a/b tests remains to be seen.

how is the PS5 a more advanced system and has more potential as a next gen system than the Xbox Series X? Outside IO of course.
Remember: XSX is not using a traditional HDD, they have a very fast SSD and even a better compression than PS5.

Source or FUD ? People were guessing 100 GB last time i looked

A dev already has a video showing how the cliff face of that demo reused 6 rocks cleverly.

This streaming tech is happening.

it's easy to use the same textures for Rocks, but will be harder in a real game with NPCs. There wasn't even a single NPC. Just look at GTA V. How big would this game be?

 

[geordiemp]

Late night thoughts... what would the "most powerful console" narrative be if PS5 can render higher res textures (e.g. 8K textures on PS5 vs 4K textures on XSX) but Series X can render at a higher resolution (e.g. full 2160p on XSX vs 1800p on PS5)?

Nope, Ps5 is likely to use 4k textures and shoot for 60 fps, and its about LATENCY not just bandwidth. Jeesh.

Also 2160p with 15 % is 2000p, your calculating 15 % on one axis only, usual rubbish. Did nobody ever do maths at school I see this so often its an AREA.......dear oh dear...

And it wont be 15 % due to latency, scrubbers and big fat abstract apis say hello. But keep telling that to yourself.

it's easy to use the same textures for Rocks, but will be harder in a real game with NPCs. There wasn't even a single NPC. Just look at GTA V. How big would this game be?

Its going to be a long generation for your terraflop and compression arguments, it really is....8K assets was proving a point, use variable assets and more of them , technology still stands.

 

[FeiRR]

how is the PS5 a more advanced system and has more potential as a next gen system than the Xbox Series X? Outside IO of course.
Remember: XSX is not using a traditional HDD, they have a very fast SSD and even a better compression than PS5.

One thing Xbox surely beats PS5 at is technical ignorance of its fans. Why do you even come to a tech thread, to be laughed at?

it's easy to use the same textures for Rocks, but will be harder in a real game with NPCs. There wasn't even a single NPC. Just look at GTA V. How big would this game be?

We have a good example here. What does that even mean? There were hundreds of NPCs in that demo with a next-gen system used to manage them.

 

[BattleScar]

Which makes Sony's solution even more useless for multiplatform Games.
For developing multiplatform Games devs always use the lowest common denominator

No way they would optimize their games based on a single platform SSD/IO. This is just nonsense.
For multiplatform Games we will only see improvements in loading times. That's it.

This is PS3 Cell all Over again.

Its not even close to being the same thing. The main system architecture is Zen 2 + RDNA 2.

AFAIK, the special features in the storage IO architecture are abstracted anyway.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

Nope, Ps5 is likely to use 4k textures and shoot for 60 fps, and its about LATENCY not just bandwidth. Jeesh.

Also 2160p with 15 % is 2000p, your calculating 15 % on one axis only, usual rubbish. Did nobody ever do maths at school I see this so often ...dear oh dear...

And it wont be 15 % due to latency, scrubbers and big fat abstract apis say hello. But keep telling that to yourself.

I wrote those numbers just to give an example I wasn't saying: "That's the resolution PS5/XSX will have!"

 

[KingT731]

I'm also a little concerned that EVERYTHING turns into some racial issue. George Floyd's death is a tragedy, but was it a racially motivated one? It's more of a factor with having people in positions of public authority that have been granted a right to use deadly force, and some will use more liberties than others when employing a given amount of force. To me, the issue is police brutality and has nothing to do with race.

There's plenty of cases of police brutality against all races of people. Yet every time something happens against the black community is spirals into a media circus which leads to rioting, looting, etc. The amount of violence caused by blacks against their own race is a FAR bigger problem and issue than the one of police brutality in general, let alone police brutality that is proven to be racially motivated.

Please don't go down that route of ignorance. You clearly don't understand things outside of your own home.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

One thing Xbox surely beats PS5 at is technical ignorance of its fans. Why do you even come to a tech thread, to be laughed at?

Well for Xbox fans it's a bit more difficult because they didn't get a proper architecture deep dive until august. There's a lot of guessing for the XSX.

 

[3liteDragon]

Which makes Sony's solution even more useless for multiplatform Games.
For developing multiplatform Games devs always use the lowest common denominator

No way they would optimize their games based on a single platform SSD/IO. This is just nonsense.
For multiplatform Games we will only see improvements in loading times. That's it.

This is PS3 Cell all Over again.

Dee Batch, is that you?

 

[Shmunter]

how is the PS5 a more advanced system and has more potential as a next gen system than the Xbox Series X? Outside IO of course.
Remember: XSX is not using a traditional HDD, they have a very fast SSD and even a better compression than PS5.



it's easy to use the same textures for Rocks, but will be harder in a real game with NPCs. There wasn't even a single NPC. Just look at GTA V. How big would this game be?

Well, the PS5 has a less capable GPU next to the XsX, but this difference is negligible in comparison to the significant difference in the i/o. XsX is awesome, but PS5 takes it to the next level. Memory is the lifeblood of the virtual creations in front of us, and PS5 provides a lot more of what is fundamental to pushing things forward.

Games that Don't take advantage of this however will likely have the win on XsX. Next gen should take advantage of it more and more as the gen progresses.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

how is the PS5 a more advanced system and has more potential as a next gen system than the Xbox Series X? Outside IO of course.
Remember: XSX is not using a traditional HDD, they have a very fast SSD and even a better compression than PS5.



it's easy to use the same textures for Rocks, but will be harder in a real game with NPCs. There wasn't even a single NPC. Just look at GTA V. How big would this game be?

Dude wtf u doing

 

[thelastword]

65W for the SSD only. Are you ready for the Jet Engine?

My source:

Liqid to Demonstrate Element LQD4500 PCIe 4.0 x16 SSD: 32 TB At Up to 24 GB/s

www.anandtech.com

65 watts for an SSD in a raid type setup, this means it will need decent cooling. Also, the 24GB/s is theoretical it's not a guaranteed number. The other question is about price. Clearly this is not meant for gaming PC's or household systems, just a fixture for enterprise systems. People need to understand, this is not an on the shelf product you can buy. Based on the oodles of corporate cash you have and the solution you require relative to storage and speed, they can build one for you, we have no idea as to it's performance in games, what we do know is that it's controller prioritizes data centers and enterprise software....."power outage protection, durability, storage capacity". This has nothing to do with gaming and gaming performance. It's just not a realistic comparison to the SSD in a $500 console. It's like comparing QUADRO PRO's or the new Vega PRO GPU's with traditional GPU's, it does not work that way. These are for different markets, with a different tech focus, at much higher price brackets.

 

[chilichote]

Well, the PS5 has a less capable GPU next to the XsX, but this difference is negligible in comparison to the significant difference in the i/o. XsX is awesome, but PS5 takes it to the next level. Memory is the lifeblood of the virtual creations in front of us, and PS5 provides a lot more of what is fundamental to pushing things forward.

Not shader-related parts of the PS5-GPU are running faster than in the XSeX because they are clock dependent, so "less capable" is not true at all. In some cases the XSeX-GPU is less capable than the PS5 ones. It will be exciting to see how this will work, in addition to the (possible) resolution-differences and the I / O.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Sony blue balls.
It's easy to hold onto any crumb of info when Sony are doing such a piss poor job of communicating themselves. Jim Ryan's an absolute shit show.

Just curious here. What Reddit post has turned out to be true regarding anything on the next gen consoles?

 

[geordiemp]

I wrote those numbers just to give an example I wasn't saying: "That's the resolution PS5/XSX will have!"

I will report you to your old maths teacher lol

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Dude wtf u doing

Is called self owning.

 

[Shmunter]

Not shader-related parts of the PS5-GPU are running faster than in the XSeX because they are clock dependent, so "less capable" is not true at all. In some cases the XSeX-GPU is less capable than the PS5 ones. It will be exciting to see how this will work, in addition to the (possible) resolution-differences and the I / O.

Yes, that's true. And we don't even know how RDN2 responds to fat vs fast ratio yet. Could be quite the surprise yet.

 

[FeiRR]

Well for Xbox fans it's a bit more difficult because they didn't get a proper architecture deep dive until august. There's a lot of guessing for the XSX.

Unless it's in a form of a comic book, I don't expect anything to change. We can see how little knowledge got absorbed from the UE5 demo and multiple layman-level videos explaining what it actually means.

 

[Sw0pDiller]

Late night thoughts... what would the "most powerful console" narrative be if PS5 can render higher res textures (e.g. 8K textures on PS5 vs 4K textures on XSX) but Series X can render at a higher resolution (e.g. full 2160p on XSX vs 1800p on PS5)?

Resolution is not an absolute term in the case of image quality. Beside that your resolution bump (2160p vs 1800p) is a far greater than the numbers suggest and the GPU of the XBsX is not THAT uch more powerfull. de resolution diffrence between 1800p and 2160p is about 44 pct.
1800p = 3200x1800 = 5.760.000 pixels
2160p = 3820x2160 = 8.294.400 pixels

And at those resolutions the power needed is exponentionly increased. I feel the diffrence in GPU power might be only seen in a couple of fps more on XBsX, not in resoluton. And even that is under debate because the CPU in the PS5 is relatively more powerfull than the one in XBsX. I know it's 3.5ghz vs 3.6ghz but that cpu needs to instruct a bigger GPU while also having to deal with some encryption decoding while PS5 CPU can offload those tasks to the custom chips. PS5 might be more balanced on internal components and both machines can be programmed tot their strenght.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Well next week there won't be a memorial service, so yeah hopefully it's better

riots will still be going on, so what? Should all businesses be closed too in rememberance?

If anything, we know it was a bad move to show the presentation on the same day as the memorial, and so is Tuesday, when the funeral is scheduled to happen. Let's see if the riots are done till there so they can announce it on Wednesday and do it on Friday.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

I will report you to your old maths teacher lol

Now you know why I had to take the calculus class twice

 

[silent head]

Top 5 most liked Gaming Tweet :

1. 470k - PlayStation - PS5 event (June 4th) delayed in support of Black Lives Matter
2. 356k - Nintendo America - Reggie Fils-Aimé retiring
3. 344k - Animal Crossing JP - Special performance of Animal Crossing main theme (from home)
4. 325k - PlayStation - PS5's DualSense reveal
5. 280k - Call of Duty - Modern Warfare (2019) reveal + release date

 

[Neo Blaster]

That memorial is at 1pm as well.

Damn, 1pm PST? I didn't know it would be at the exact same time of the presentation, there was no way Sony could keep it going.

 

[whoever81]

So...the funeral of George Floyd will be held on Tuesday June 9. I suppose we should probably forget the remaining week. Therefore I expect the presentation somewhere around June 16-18.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Which makes Sony's solution even more useless for multiplatform Games.
For developing multiplatform Games devs always use the lowest common denominator

No way they would optimize their games based on a single platform SSD/IO. This is just nonsense.
For multiplatform Games we will only see improvements in loading times. That's it.

This is PS3 Cell all Over again.

First-party studios and third parties praising the console: hold my beer

Cerny said devs could literally say which data they wanted to fetch and were to put it and the system would do the rest. I'm sure there are optimizations they could do to improve performance even more, but the lesser effort will get benefits too.

 

[geordiemp]

Resolution is not an absolute term in the case of image quality. Beside that your resolution bump (2160p vs 1800p) is a far greater than the numbers suggest and the GPU of the XBsX is not THAT uch more powerfull. de resolution diffrence between 1800p and 2160p is about 44 pct.
1800p = 3200x1800 = 5.760.000 pixels
2160p = 3820x2160 = 8.294.400 pixels

And at those resolutions the power needed is exponentionly increased. I feel the diffrence in GPU power might be only seen in a couple of fps more on XBsX, not in resoluton. And even that is under debate because the CPU in the PS5 is relatively more powerfull than the one in XBsX. I know it's 3.5ghz vs 3.6ghz but that cpu needs to instruct a bigger GPU while also having to deal with some encryption decoding while PS5 CPU can offload those tasks to the custom chips. PS5 might be more balanced on internal components and both machines can be programmed tot their strenght.

Games nowadays are fixed clocks variable dymanic resolution anyway.

Take 15 %, subtract effects of faster caches, faster rasterisation, throw in those DX12 bit fat abstraction layer apis, and likely we wont see much at all.

The main POTENTIAL downside and unknown of both consoles is the RAM bandwidth and how it affects performance. IMO.

 

[zaitsu]

One thing Xbox surely beats PS5 at is technical ignorance of its fans. Why do you even come to a tech thread, to be laughed at?


We have a good example here. What does that even mean? There were hundreds of NPCs in that demo with a next-gen system used to manage them.

I wanted to write same thing.

 

[FeiRR]

Games nowadays are fixed clocks variable dymanic resolution anyway.

Take 15 %, subtract effects of faster caches, faster rasterisation, throw in those DX12 bit fat abstraction layer apis, and likely we wont see much at all.

The main POTENTIAL downside and unknown of both consoles is the RAM bandwidth and how it affects performance. IMO.

You should also take into account that custom data management hardware in PS5 will likely reduce the necessity to move data around, maybe even several times. On the other hand, we don't know much about that part of XSX, like @X-Fighter pointed out, because Microsoft talks with marketing instead of technology. Which just adds to the puzzle.

 

[sircaw]

Reminds me of the legend: (Manchester United FC legend)

RIP
Maradona is good, Pele is better, George Best.

GGMU

As an England Football supporter, NEVER AGAIN MENTION THAT NAME.

 

[user1337]

Either way, we're getting the equivalent of late '90's Hollywood CGI visuals in realtime for games on consoles, a feat some of us in our 30's now thought we'd be in our mid-50's before such a point was reached.

Yup! I still remember watching some of the in-game cut scenes and thinking, "I wonder how long it will take for games to actually play like that". Apparently not that long In the grand scheme of things.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Well for Xbox fans it's a bit more difficult because they didn't get a proper architecture deep dive until august. There's a lot of guessing for the XSX.

That makes it even funnier Xbox fans downplay Cerny's deep dive but praise XSX features not even properly explained nor revealed.

 

[zaitsu]

That makes it even funnier Xbox fans downplay Cerny's deep dive but praise XSX features not even properly explained or revealed.

Exactly. They laughed back then, calling it " boring SSD talk , and SDD is only for loading times and event then not so much look at PC and PS4 with SSD, 10TF>12 TF, and PC has 2080 TI" . And right now Xbox fans are like "velocity architecture, 100GB/s, Bcpack, DX12 streaming textures" and PCMR " we have $3000 dollars SSD with faster RAW speed than PS5 ". They are still in denial phase.

 

[martino]

something some of you deny hard is ps5 advantage is not what compression data make it like to be (one compress huge part of the data better even if we don't have the detail of how much in practice (outisde 70-75% reference))
i did a quick math with 50% advantage on textures
and MS will keep up up to 6gb/s. if the advantage is 70-75% they can probably keep up to nearly 7gb/s
in the end the advantage will probably be ~3gb/s for ps5 so ~50% (still god like vs awesome like they said)
but the advantage will not be over 150%.

also MS advantage with this method is also smaller game sinstalled on the disk (1/5 less seems about right).

 

[GRIEVEZ]

As I bored I am watching this guy ... is very entertaining

Man... First is was Linus, than Jim (Adored) and now Wcc... I regular those channels/websites.

Im losing 'em, to their own fault. Naoooooo!! Can we still say it's a console war? Seems to have evolved to a platform war

At least Tech Jesus (Gamers Nexus), hasnt been pulled in by PS5's gravitational awesomeness - in an war effort

 

[thelastword]

Which makes Sony's solution even more useless for multiplatform Games.
For developing multiplatform Games devs always use the lowest common denominator

No way they would optimize their games based on a single platform SSD/IO. This is just nonsense.
For multiplatform Games we will only see improvements in loading times. That's it.

This is PS3 Cell all Over again.

Are you saying you are better served with a XBONES next gen, it's the lowest common denominator because MS is keeping it in the loop. Hope you buy no next gen console...….

Also, Cell and the SSD are not the same relative to complexity. If anything the PS5 is a Dev's dream for removing bottlenecks and allowing ease of development for devs, time to triangle is less than a month, much less than the PS1 FYI.

Hi guys, long time (years) lurker, first time signing up and posting on here. Was really looking forward to sign up for a certain train ride and... oh... never mind now

Welcome, nothing stops this train. Enjoy the scenery on scenic route. We are only stopping for a bit to honor George Floyd on the way. As soon as we are done, we will be on our way....

It's funny that by putting PlayStation there made it Xbox's most liked tweet ever!

Absolutely, I think that was their plan. Only way they could get lots of likes is to be affiliated. They are thinking that; hopefully it sticks and their tweets get more momentum from henceforth, but I don't think that's the reason people liked that tweet, it's because it had the PS representation/color and because they are standing in solidarity with a stance Sony took first.

 

[bitbydeath]

Either way, we're getting the equivalent of late '90's Hollywood CGI visuals in realtime for games on consoles, a feat some of us in our 30's now thought we'd be in our mid-50's before such a point was reached.

The next Quantic Dream/ Supermassive game will probably be near indistinguishable from a movie.

 

[geordiemp]

something some of you deny hard is ps5 advantage is not what compression data make it like to be (one compress huge part of the data better even if we don't have the detail of how much in practice (outisde 70-75% reference))
i did a quick math with 50% advantage on textures
and MS will keep up up to 6gb/s. if the advantage is 70-75% they can probably keep up to nearly 7gb/s
in the end the advantage will probably be ~3gb/s for ps5 so ~50% (still god like vs awesome like they said)
but the advantage will not be over 150%.

also MS advantage with this method is also smaller game sinstalled on the disk (1/5 less seems about right).

 

[martino]

i don't expect you to understand
i'm not sure you can
i'm sure you don't want.

 

[bitbydeath]

The UE5 demo is rumored to be around 300 GB in size. You won't see a lot of 8K textures, otherwise the games would be at least 1TB, won't even fit on the console lol

Nah. 8K Skyrim textures were 5GB.
That demo would have been 10-20GB tops.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

Hi guys, long time (years) lurker, first time signing up and posting on here. Was really looking forward to sign up for a certain train ride and... oh... never mind now

Don't worry, that train will arrive to it's destination. We're on a small detour

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

something some of you deny hard is ps5 advantage is not what compression data make it like to be (one compress huge part of the data better even if we don't have the detail of how much in practice (outisde 70-75% reference))
i did a quick math with 50% advantage on textures
and MS will keep up up to 6gb/s. if the advantage is 70-75% they can probably keep up to nearly 7gb/s
in the end the advantage will probably be ~3gb/s for ps5 so ~50% (still god like vs awesome like they said)
but the advantage will not be over 150%.

also MS advantage with this method is also smaller game sinstalled on the disk (1/5 less seems about right).

 

[geordiemp]

i don't expect you to understand
i'm not sure you can
i'm sure you don't want.

Your numbers are funny and made me laugh. No offense, I like using that GIF I apologise for my rudeness.

Anyway, most people still dont get it so another go ....

What about a 24 GBs SSD LQD 4500 , that will smoke ps5 right ? .. Latency, abstration layers in Dx12 all say hello.

Tim sweeny again having some fun :