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[Tiago07]

About the SSD discussion.

geordiemp already puts a very good point. The time that XSX needed to load a 1.5gb game which was not instantaneous, so its possible to have a real I/O speed lower than 1gb/s.

We do not have so much info about the SSD of XSX like we have about the PS5, so is very difficult to conclude anything. My bets is still on a very signaficant gap between the consoles. We don't know if the XSX is capable of instant streaming data, remove the use of duplicated assets, comunicate directly with the GPU, without the need of the RAM. This is something thats is the real game changer and what makes the Devs praise the PS5, based on Devs statement on PS5 and only in it, we can presume that XSX is not capable of everything but its is good enough to make better games than what we have in our current gen.


We need to wait to Sony exclusives games to really shows what is the real difference.

 

[Tiago07]

About the SSD discussion.

geordiemp already puts a very good point. The time that XSX needed to load a 1.5gb game which was not instantaneous, so its possible to have a real I/O speed lower than 1gb/s.

We do not have so much info about the SSD of XSX like we have about the PS5, so is very difficult to conclude anything. My bets is still on a very signaficant gap between the consoles. We don't know if the XSX is capable of instant streaming data, remove the use of duplicated assets, comunicate directly with the GPU, without the need of the RAM. This is something thats is the real game changer and what makes the Devs praise the PS5, based on Devs statement on PS5 and only in it, we can presume that XSX is not capable of everything but its is good enough to make better games than what we have in our current gen.


We need to wait to Sony exclusives games to really shows what is the real difference.

Im going to sleep so whatever reply, I will answer later.

 

[Kazekage1981]

imagine playing true next gen grand theft auto in los santos with real cinematic lifelike movements of people, and life like global illumination. Not stiff looking manikins with rigid movements

 

[B_Boss]

Its about nuances of the XsX SSD honey. Ofcourse the PS5 SSD has a clear speed advantage. Well PS5 has *the* advantage in SSD. But the XsX SSD,...…. is very good, it does things differently. Not *amazing* like PS5 SSD. But I dont really give a fuck about SSD, because its never been about SSD's. Its always been about:

TFLOPS
Resolution
Compute Units
RAM
RAM Bandwidth
Graphical Effects\techniques such as Ray tracing.
Frames Per Second

You know,... Next-Gen Stuff, lets get back to those discussions. I really miss it.

Everything you've mentioned is nextgen discussion stuff....now exactly how you want to discuss such stuff? Well...that is probably where you differ from many (If not some) here .

 

[schaft0620]

Sharing my post from the PS5 dev kit patent thread. I think I found something that indicates the style of the PS5 box.

OK so I am translating the docs, I think I found something cool on like the 3rd page. "The electronic device (fig.10 the dev kit itself) may have a trapezoidal shape or a parallelogram when viewed in plan view. "

The devkit is a trapezoid. I think the actual box is going to be slightly offset like a parallelogram. We have even seen some fan-made stuff that looks close to this.

Properties of parallelograms (Geometry, Quadrilaterals) – Mathplanet

www.mathplanet.com

I will continue reading through and translating.

EDIT: it's page 5.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I mean, there have been enough opinions about it, its been discussed to death. So lets talk about actual games, and the potential of what it could look like. Since this is PS5 SSD Next-Gen OT thread:

Gran Turismo

So how would they implement ray tracing and orange peel effect on the cars?

I would prefer of they used global Illumination instead of Ray Tracing. So far Ray Tracing hasn't really impressed me plus I don't believe the performance is worth it.

But that's just me.

 

[Sinthor]

Good point Sinthor I think developers when implementing raytracing should do a good balance of software and hardware so it wont be so taxing. Gran Turismo Sport really had amazing lightning effects. I am sure Kazunori Yamauchi is going to create a breath taking game.

As I stated before I just hope there are no more cardboard cut out background people and trees lol.

I also want there to be more city levels. They had Seattle but I hope the extra storage of 100GB Ultra Blu Ray Disk can implement more city levels like Chicago, London, Sydney, Dubai, etc.

Night time would look amazing with raytracing

Oh yes, that's a good point about the cities. I hadn't thought of that. With the 100GB BD's your right that they should be able to have a lot more detail like that. How about this though.....use the cloud and streaming like they're doing with MS Flight Simulator. Have you seen the screens for that? Absolutely mind blowing and using real world data there's pretty much no way they could put on disks (maybe a dozen or more disks if they did, and even then...??) and have to stream it in from internet. Yeah, not everyone has fast enough pipes for that maybe but where they do exist...that would be fantastic. Add to that what you're saying about RT, especially at night. I think that night time use case is a feasible area for them to use RT, especially in distance shots like the screen capture you put here. At least for this generation. I dunno though...maybe they'll surprise us and end up using it a lot more than I think. I mean, THIS generation held a lot of surprises and as you stated earlier, the current gen stuff is pretty much garbage compared to these new boxes! I'm super excited for this all to kick off.

You know...the state things are in world wide.. I just feel exhausted really. Too much negativity like a dark cloud of smoke choking me when I breathe. I see and feel it even at work- everyone is just SO fucking tensed. We need some good positive news and things to focus on. Games are just a fun little hobby, but damn....it would do a lot of good to have the floodgates opened so we can all start to see cool demos and trailers and such and have new real technical info to go over and debate as well. Sometimes it's the small things in life that can make a difference. At least I sure hope to hell it can. We're all about due for SOMETHING postive!

Ah, one more thing I wanted to say that I'm curious about and excited for is the "upgrades" to current gen games for the new hardware. With the mid gen refresh to the PS4 Pro, I was pretty happy with how the games were upgraded. It sounds like MS has gone DEEP with this and I'm really curious to see how they can upgrade things like say the original Halo and what a difference that will make! Sounds really cool. I'm curious to see if Sony does something similar and if so, how far they have to go to catch up with where MS is in that area.

You know, I do Cyber-Security for work and I've seen a lot of products lately using "Deep learning." Basically an almost spooky AI type of 'neural network' they actually call a 'brain' and that company's keep running..they don't wipe or get rid of them and they supposedly actually 'learn' in a manner of speaking. There are even some videos on YouTube where you can see them use this technology to take an old movie clip from like 1908 of a train coming into a station and have the 'brain' upscale the video to 4k. The thing will actually fill in any gaps, eliminate noise and all of that as it is focused on "learning" what things are SUPPOSED to look like. Now, the companies I've dealt with so far have been really cagey on saying exactly how much computing power this takes to calculate, but they are positioning things like it really doesn't take much. From the sound of it, the cost is mostly in the storage where the "brain" is and where it accesses it's "Mind" and data from, not on the computation power side. If that's accurate, then these deep learning types of systems could be applied to video games as well. Take something like that original Halo and TRULY upscale it to 4k and without needing you to have a GPU 4x more powerful than you have today. That kind of thing could put real meaning into that whole "power of the Cloud" marketing that was around for a while at the beginning of the current generation.

THAT is the shit I'm thinking may have a real impact and maybe even this generation or the next. Imagine if developers can ship games with like 8 bit only textures and have the software take those low res, low storage space textures and make them into real and convincing 4k or 8k objects and textures in your game! That would be crazy. You could download a "Call of Duty" title in like 3 minutes and be playing it in 4k or 8k right after!

 

[Nickolaidas]

Why Microsoft's Xbox One won this Console Generation | Link-Cable

How Microsoft ruled.

www.link-cable.com

 

[TBiddy]

And we're back at the less than 1GB/s BW talk on the XSX. It's like clockwork. Just as disingenous as the "PS5 is only 9.2 TF" talks.

 

[Bogroll]

PS5 Concept inspired by DualSense and Devkit designs.

 

[Kazekage1981]

I think for both next gen consoles how are they going to address:

-Foliage such as grass and leaves on trees?
-Water effects and the way water displaces when you step on it, run through it, walk on it
-render it at 4k?

takes up too much processing power and RAM.

 

[SSfox]

If this BloodBorne remaster rumor is true and Sony actually charge existing users for it, then I'm going to give them a lot of shit. And it has nothing to do with so that, 'Studio who put the work in get paid'. Well, that's Sonys' prerogative, pay them a huge stack of cash or cut them a certain %. It's their headache. MS have a dedicated BC team whose sole purpose is to enhance the existing games for future consoles, I'm sure they are being paid well.

There are folks who paid full price for this game, some picked it up for cheap, and held onto it in hope Sony would bother with a Pro patch. Which never arrived, now once they are actually putting the effort in, which is only accessible via gateway hardware i.e. (PS5, you'd still need to buy it) and then ask existing users to pay for it? What a huge slap in the face. Ideally, they'd just put out a new SKU for fresh users who are jumping into the eco-system and offer the upgrade free of cost for existing users (cause they'd still have to buy your PS5 to play in first instance). But, current strategy seems to be of, charge existing users for upgrade, charge new users the same, and oh, if there are people who don't want to pick up the hardware, well we're putting out a PC SKU as well. It just reeks of maximizing profits, and while from business standpoint it makes a lot of sense, in the end they're shafting the long term users, which is what @SlimySnake alluded to in his posts.

I really hope they don't hang us existing users out to dry by charging for remasters, it's a tired philosophy and I gave them a pass for it due to BC issues from PS3 -> PS4. But, for next-gen there is zero excuses to do so, especially when their biggest competitor is going all-out when it comes to Enhanced BC.

I 100% agree with this.

Guys, what if we have a Bloodborne in a Shadow of the Colossus remastered level?
If you already have the original, fine... you have the 4k + 60fps.

But can you imagine the leap using what PS5 has to offer?

Why now? Bloodborne 2 teaser along with it.

Oh sure, as i said before if it's a remaster remake ala SOTC that would be another story.

In the end if all this BB remaster PS5 + PC is true, that's really smelling some Bloodborne sequel announcement incoming.

E- Tekken 7 hitting consoles after the arcade release.

 

[Metroiddarks]

And we're back at the less than 1GB/s BW talk on the XSX. It's like clockwork. Just as disingenous as the "PS5 is only 9.2 TF" talks.

Who now is talking about that ?

 

[TBiddy]

Who now is talking about that ?

Tiago007 just a few hours ago.

 

[Lethal01]

imagine playing true next gen grand theft auto in los santos with real cinematic lifelike movements of people, and life like global illumination. Not stiff looking manikins with rigid movements

You're gonna need an AI that can generate random conversations on the fly.
We shall call it, the murmur engine.

 

[Metroiddarks]

Tiago007 just a few hours ago.

I saw it, wtf Tiago07

TBiddy also did you see than now the SSD of the PS5 doesn't matter because the GPU cannot manage so much data per second?

 

[Games Dean]

Tiago007 just a few hours ago.

Why didn't you just call him/her out and address it specifically? No else even liked the post. I don't disagree with your assertion but c'mon man.

 

[TBiddy]

I saw it, wtf Tiago07

TBiddy also did you see than now the SSD of the PS5 doesn't matter because the GPU cannot manage so much data per second?

I did not. There's so much FUD flying around in this thread that it is impossible to keep up

 

[ToadMan]

I actually don't think this is "brave" or praiseworthy or whatever.

This guy is supposed to be a tech expert - yet he ignored the information. He could've come to gaf, asked some questions and received some knowledge - he didn't.

But never mind that, he was in a privileged position to speak to people working on the tech, and still dismissed their input and opinions. No doubt before all this broke he could've asked for further information or kept his own counsel until the consoles were released

No.

He pursued his own agenda with religious fervour dismissing any dissenting view. He started with the answer he preferred and found a way to justify that answer by going to extremes. I'm gonna guess that this "apology" is just crocodile tears - he's grudgingly giving in for now but I don't think he'll have learned from this experience.

Apologising now, in the face of overwhelming evidence counter to his position isn't "brave" or "praiseworthy". It's inevitable....

It's all he could do to try and maintain his relevance to his audience.

 

[kensama]

So around 4.4 GB/s when it comes to the raw speed?

I'm curious at how you arrived at that conclusion.

I'm also curious to know.
Fact are:

PS5's SSD max RAW: 5.5 Gb/s
XSX's SSD max RAW: 2.4 Gb/s

And that's the max physically possible for both.


So it's like hav two able to go at 300 Km/h but one is limited to go at max 130Km/h (XSX) and the other at 260 km/h (PS5) with no possibilities to go above.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

I actually don't think this is "brave" or praiseworthy or whatever.

This guy is supposed to be a tech expert - yet he ignored the information. He could've come to gaf, asked some questions and received some knowledge - he didn't.

But never mind that, he was in a privileged position to speak to people working on the tech, and still dismissed their input and opinions. No doubt before all this broke he could've asked for further information or kept his own counsel until the consoles were released

No.

He pursued his own agenda with religious fervour dismissing any dissenting view. He started with the answer he preferred and found a way to justify that answer by going to extremes. I'm gonna guess that this "apology" is just crocodile tears - he's grudgingly giving in for now but I don't think he'll have learned from this experience.

Apologising now, in the face of overwhelming evidence counter to his position isn't "brave" or "praiseworthy". It's inevitable....

It's all he could do to try and maintain his relevance to his audience.

I disagree, nowadays someone being able to candidly admit they were wrong is definitely praiseworthy. Just take a look at the guy in your avatar pic, never saw him apologize or admit he was wrong about anything in his life and still got where he is. Not everyone has in it in them to feel embarrassed when they clearly makes mistakes.

Taking a lesson from it now is what's important, so time will tell if he did, but so far, so good

 

[FeiRR]

I disagree, nowadays someone being able to candidly admit they were wrong is definitely praiseworthy. Just take a look at the guy in your avatar pic, never saw him apologize or admit he was wrong about anything in his life and still got where he is. Not everyone has in it in them to feel embarrassed when they clearly makes mistakes.

Taking a lesson from it now is what's important, so time will tell if he did, but so far, so good

That is the low standard of those times we live in. Apologizing is a decent thing to do and should be accepted. Listening to someone who was so much wrong and couldn't wrap his mind around tech facts is a totally different thing. I've first heard about this guy here because I don't follow PC news anymore but I'd suggest he should change his account name to Linus Tear Drops because he's not an expert at all. If you deal with everchanging modern tech, paradigm shifts happen from time to time. Imagine he didn't get involved in the console war and in half a year new AMD cards came. He would probably keep recommending other cards to his subscribers because teraflops or something like that. He's useless at what he does because his mind is narrow. Don't waste your time on people like that.

 

[aclar00]

PS5 Concept inspired by DualSense and Devkit designs.

Looks like the face of Johnny 5

 

[ToadMan]

IKR. If this "big" Bluepoint game is actually Bloodborne Remastered I'm going to be very disappointed. IMO, I'd use the team's talent for games that actually require proper remaking/remastering. Bloodborne does not require such treatment. Seeing how one amateur person can implement 60FPS in it makes me think it'd be very easy to make it 4K60 on PS5 via a patch and call it a day. Demon's Souls on the other hand...

Yeah but imagine you're bluepoint ....

Sony turn up offering cash to remaster BB and they saw some guy getting 60fps with a hack.

Bluepoint will say it'll take 18 months when it's only a couple of months of effort, bank the money and turn in the work the day it's due for certification.

Got to admire the work smarter not harder philosophy.

 

[ToadMan]

I disagree, nowadays someone being able to candidly admit they were wrong is definitely praiseworthy. Just take a look at the guy in your avatar pic, never saw him apologize or admit he was wrong about anything in his life and still got where he is. Not everyone has in it in them to feel embarrassed when they clearly makes mistakes.

Taking a lesson from it now is what's important, so time will tell if he did, but so far, so good

I don't agree. I think screwing up through lack of effort and then just apologising for it is a poor trait.

Either he couldn't understand the topic, was ill-informed and didn't do some research or just chose to ignore the information he had.

For someone who is selling themselves on being a tech expert none of those scenarios are admirable. The whole point of people going to his channel for advice is to avoid being misinformed.

If you think Trump is also wrong - well 2 wrongs don't make a right. I just have him as an avatar because it amuses me ...

 

[ToadMan]

I think the XsX SSD is about 75%-85% of PlayStation 5's SSD speed and I/O bottleneck removal based on: my opinion and impression. That is sufficient enough because the rest of XsX beats PS5 hands down in terms of graphics performance on paper especially when outputting True 4K resolution at 30fps minimum.

Thanks PS5 SSD Next-Gen Thread OT.

Hmmm Salty and technically inaccurate.

There are plenty of echochambers around if opposing views are such an anathema to you.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

I don't agree. I think screwing up through lack of effort and then just apologising for it is a poor trait.

Either he couldn't understand the topic, was ill-informed and didn't do some research or just chose to ignore the information he had.

For someone who is selling themselves on being a tech expert none of those scenarios are admirable. The whole point of people going to his channel for advice is to avoid being misinformed.

If you think Trump is also wrong - well 2 wrongs don't make a right. I just have him as an avatar because it amuses me ...

I think we'll both agree apologizing is not enough, now requires something to change in order to make it meaningful. I do however think it's a good first step, that's all

 

[FranXico]

Its not

That's a shame. I would have liked a portable.

 

[Bryank75]

Man, I don't think we're going to see much in the way of ray tracing at ALL this generation. Just take a look at the Minecraft demo on XSX. Minecraft is hardly a graphic tour de force and ray tracing ("full raytracing" whatever that actually means) made that thing chug down to a non-stable <30fps. And the XSX has a STRONG GPU. Now, I don't know what the relative performance cost and benefits are between having more CU's for ray tracing versus a higher clock speed but I suspect the XSX has at least a slight edge in Ray Tracing capability as a result of having more CU's. Still... MINECRAFT made it chug.

So I think this generation SOME games may use ray tracing, but they will use it on a VERY limited basis. I expect to see more use of systems like the UE5 Lumen demo showed as that gives at least comparable results and is obviously far cheaper on a computational basis.

Maybe some game like Gran Turismo or Forza can make more use of RT. I wouldn't think racing simulators were easier from the graphic perspective but those games always seem to push the envelopes in resolution and FPS so they must be. So MAYBE they can use more extensive RT in those games. We'll have to see. But it will seriously surprise me if we see much in the way of RT being used by most developers. Honestly, I don't think we'll even see RT really come into it's own for NEXT generation unless there's a really huge evolutional leap in GPU's by then. We'll see.

So no, I'm not drinking the Ray Tracing Kool-Aid at this point.

Mid-gen refresh is when I am counting on ray tracing starting to really be introduced and I expect fps or something else to take a hit if it does come in. It will be a balancing act. I'd rather the Unreal engine solution and very high detail assets than ray tracing and compromised asset quality etc.

 

[zubairali2]

i just found out about the bloodborne rumour. been smoking the green and forgot what day and time it was

if bloodborne does get a remaster for pc also, i see that as a big W. who wouldnt want a souls game like bloodborne to be modded the shit out of, and possibly have mods on ps5 the way skyrim does on ps4.

but 5 years later, they release a ps5 port, OF COURSE they're working on a sequel. it was miyazaki's favourite game to make so im excited if all this is true! playstation would already win this year for me

 

[Lunatic_Gamer]

Former Frostbite Software Engineer Explains PS5's Kraken Compression Unit

Yan Chernikov talks about the benefits of PS5's hardware decompression.

This is the kind of advancement that I guess consoles can have that PCs might not generally be able to achieve, because what we're talking about here, as far as I can understand, is custom hardware," Chernikov said. "It is literally doing decompression in hardware, it's not doing it on the CPU or the GPU. There is literally a unit responsible for decompression of this Kraken format, which is like zlib, but a bit better.

"That's basically the equivalent of buying like a red rocket card or something for your computer so that you can edit like red camera footage a lot faster because you literally have a PCIe card that is doing the decompression or whatever of that red footage. That's very similar to what this is, it's like a dedicated piece of hardware that does the decompression, which is going to be faster than probably a CPU and GPU doing it. But also, it's in addition to that, so the CPU and CPU can do other things, which is really cool and again part of the reason why it might be possible if they play their cards right to do certain things on a PlayStation 5 that would be slower to do on a computer. I'm by no means saying that 'Oh yeah, everyone should buy PS5 because they're better than PCs'. They're different pieces of hardware and I appreciate both."

Former Frostbite Software Engineer Explains PS5’s Kraken Compression Unit

gamingbolt.com

 

[thurnishaleygw]

You just discovered the final count down? You most be very young.

Or lucky.

Spoiler

I hate that song with a passion.

 

[thurnishaleygw]

Ok my hunch is Thursday..............AND YOU CAN CALL ME MYSTIC DAN BECAUSE I PREDICT DEEEEZ TINGS!

 

[thurnishaleygw]

Nevermind, not worth it.

 

[Self]

I'd rather the Unreal engine solution and very high detail assets than ray tracing and compromised asset quality etc.

Yea, I would also prefer better assets, higher fidelity than ray tracing.
Don't know what's all the fuss about lightning. Seemed good enough for me this generation.

I'm all in for gimmicks, but not at the expanse for higher detail/fidelity.

 

[husomc]

He just gained a new subscriber.

 

[B_Boss]

I don't agree. I think screwing up through lack of effort and then just apologising for it is a poor trait.

Either he couldn't understand the topic, was ill-informed and didn't do some research or just chose to ignore the information he had.

For someone who is selling themselves on being a tech expert none of those scenarios are admirable. The whole point of people going to his channel for advice is to avoid being misinformed.

If you think Trump is also wrong - well 2 wrongs don't make a right. I just have him as an avatar because it amuses me ...

Far more amusing avatar you must admit!:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/megaman/images/b/bf/Toadman.png

(fixed link?)

 

[ArcaneNLSC]

Yea, I would also prefer better assets, higher fidelity than ray tracing.
Don't know what's all the fuss about lightning. Seemed good enough for me this generation.

I'm all in for gimmicks, but not at the expanse for higher detail/fidelity.

What the Unreal Engine is doing is streamlining the process with the lighting in a more streamlined workflow which is a huge time saving method so it allows those extra hours days weeks and months to be spent on creating better more fleshed out games in the long run

 

[Delpij]

.

Are you saying there is enough space for a Sony train to appear.

Sony train be like

 

[Nickolaidas]

i just found out about the bloodborne rumour. been smoking the green and forgot what day and time it was

if bloodborne does get a remaster for pc also, i see that as a big W. who wouldnt want a souls game like bloodborne to be modded the shit out of, and possibly have mods on ps5 the way skyrim does on ps4.

but 5 years later, they release a ps5 port, OF COURSE they're working on a sequel. it was miyazaki's favourite game to make so im excited if all this is true! playstation would already win this year for me

Naked dream doll: Welcome home, good hunter … what is it you desire?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I know it wasnt you. It was a joke post. There is a user in this thread who literaly stated that the PS5 SSD outputs 8K resolution, not the GPU, and no, he did not confuse it with 8k asset streaming

The user i assume you're talking about did not say what you think he said

 

[zubairali2]

Naked dream doll: Welcome home, good hunter … what is it you desire?

*kneels down*

OH GOD, WHAT DID GEHRMAN DO TO YOU?!

 

[lepermessiah]

Mate says that PC just needs a software update to match and/or exceed PS5's I/O. Explain why he's wrong please because they keep repeating this.

 

[Madjako]

imagine playing true next gen grand theft auto in los santos with real cinematic lifelike movements of people, and life like global illumination. Not stiff looking manikins with rigid movements

Thanks for that video, reminds me good things. I'm French but I visit almost every year LA. Love this place!!

 

[Lethal01]

Don't know what's all the fuss about lightning.

I'm an artist, and I'm hurt.



Godot joining in on High Quality Real Time GI

Also this should be obvious, but you guys can expect most engines to get something Similar to Lumen AND Nanite. Unreal Engines code is totally out in the open once released and developers will learn a lot from it.

and one more for good measure

 

[roops67]

Amen to that!!

 

[roops67]

Or lucky.

Spoiler

I hate that song with a passion.

Amen to this !!

... Not the out of context 'Amen to that' I posted earlier... I accidentally deleted what I was replying to ,dammit!

 

[B_Boss]

I'm an artist, and I'm hurt.



Godot joining in on High Quality Real Time GI

Also this should be obvious, but you guys can expect most engines to get something Similar to Lumen AND Nanite. Unreal Engines code is totally out in the open once released and developers will learn a lot from it.

and one more for good measure

Goodness I didn't even think of the possibilities when UE5 goes open source ! The ideas it'll inspire and/or other engines that may even improve on Nanite & Lumen. Cannot wait

 

[cerealbuster]

Man if they really release a bloodborne pc port I really hope it will come to ps5 too. Going from PC back to console and then not having a better version of the game would really feel annoying.

 

[Vaztu]

So regarding the Bloodborne rumours,

From one unsubstantiated rumour to another.