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[Panajev2001a]

I will be reporting you for the bolded, since I never characterized you or spoke of you in any derogatory manner.
About the rest, if microsoft would come out and say "hey, we are 10.2TF but we also have this secret sauce, the half-floats that takes us to 20TF", I guarantee you that there would not be enough tomatoes for me to throw at them.

I said that was a warrior taking point, not implied an (in)direct attack, as it has been talked and debunked ad nausea.These comments are stretched and twisted as if they were console war statements by Cerny.

It keeps being brought back as if there was a clear confusion about what it means and if it was credible as a way for Cerny to mislead people into thinking that PS4 Pro was an 8+ TFLOPS console. Often it is tied to the 8 TFLOPS for native 4K comment for further divisive shade.

If MS said that thanks to 16 half floats enhancements in XSX they could process some code (before RPM, FP16 was already used to save on bandwidth and reduce register file pressure and thus allow more threads in flight on the GPU).

 

[Red_Driver85]

You know, back to the discussion that the PS5 has RDNA 1.5 and not RDNA 2.0, it's like VFXVeteran repeating "PC version is the best version" and "all PS5 exclusives will come to PC" (of course in the best version). What a sick consistency. There are many reasons why neither one nor the other is true. One of them is a lie. In PS5, the GPU is based on the RDNA 2.0 architecture, at the core, but it's still a custom chip and contains developments from RDNA 1.0, GCN ISA, for example. This is done for backward compatibility, primarily because it is needed precisely at the hardware level.
The GPU PS5 has features that don't belong to any of the architectures. Cerny mentioned a few things, but all the cards are never revealed. And you know that.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

I would also like to add some additional comments.

Mark Cerny himself stated during the Tech Talk that "we need higher performance per watt, every time we double the performance of the GPU component we don't want to find out we've doubled the power consumed and the heat produced". For me this is an important quote as the performance per watt increase from RDNA 1 to RDNA 2 was significant and this along with the logic enhancements as well as physical enhancements (which allowed higher clocks according to AMD) were defining features of the RDNA 2 architecture and were important requirements for the PS5.

This is one of many reasons as to why the whole RDNA 1 with bolted RDNA 2 features doesn't make sense.

For me if somehow Sony not opting for a few features to make it classed as not a full RDNA2 GPU means its in between then its just really a classification thing. If that's how this is working. Does seem weird though as clearly its RDNA2 based as Cerny said but also custom so maybe officially not RDNA2 as it will be known as standard.

It has all meaningful advancements of RDNA2 and whatever they wanted from the architecture from 1, 2 and beyond if it was viable or RDNA3 may develop in line with some feature the companies collaborated on.

So maybe all statements are right and this is a storm in a teacup.

We also know the real world results have PS5 and XSX games at identical resolution and framrates so far so can't be much different and devs say are close.

So it probably is what it is a highly custom GPU based on RDNA2 but not stock with some fearures discarded so maybe thats where between 1 and 2 come from, then again it still makes little sense to say it like that you would say its RDNA 2 but not stock as we didn't need all the features.

So again its confusing because this doesn't really make much sense....

 

[sircaw]

Way back in January, Jim Ryan was interviewed as saying

On the Unique Appeals of PlayStation 5


Jim Ryan: "Each time a new console is released, the processor and graphics improve. Those are enticing of course, but we need to have special appeals as well. We have already confirmed the use of an solid-state drive. Having load times that are next to nothing is a major change.


"3D audio and the haptic feedback support of the controller are also things that, when you try them, you will be surprised at how big a change they are. Even just playing the racing game Gran Turismo Sport with a PlayStation 5 controller is a completely different experience. While it runs well with the previous controller, there is no going back after you experience the detailed road surface via haptic control and play using the adaptive triggers.


"But you know. There are still more unique elements for PlayStation 5 to come that separate it from previous consoles. The 'bigger differences' have yet to be announced."

PS5 – unique, unannounced features teased by Sony Interactive Entertainment president

Business Insider Japan has published a new interview with Sony Interactive Entertainment president and CEO Jim Ryan, who touches briefly upon the newly revealed PlayStation 5 logo; teases unique, u…

www.gematsu.com

Its going to be Glorious when they finally reveal everything.

 

[Handy Fake]

For me if somehow Sony not opting for a few features to make it classed as not a full RDNA2 GPU means its in between then its just really a classification thing. If that's how this is working. Does seem weird though as clearly its RDNA2 based as Cerny said but also custom so maybe officially not RDNA2 as it will be know as standard.

It has all meaningful advancements of RDNA2 and whatever they wanted from the architecture from 1, 2 and beyond if it was viable or RDNA3 may develop in line with some feature the companies collaborated on.

So maybe all statements are right and this is a storm in a teacup.

We also know the real world results have PS5 and XSX games at identical resolution and framrates so far so can't be much different and deva say are close.

So it probably is what it is a highly custom GPU based on RDNA2 but not stock with some fearures discarded so maybe thats where between 1 and 2 come from, then again it still makes little sense to say it like that you would say its RDNA 2 but not stock as we didn't need all the features.

So again its confusing because this doesn't really make much sense....

That's the impression I get too. I think there's an issue arises when no one knows what RDNA2 is anyway, which is compounded by something said by someone of a technical nature who isn't addressing your average console user and his first language isn't English.
At this point I think it's looking like an exercise in semantics.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

Well they did mention the 25tF RT thing...

I googled as I wasn't aware of that. Suffice to say that I'll be watching their first party showcase in a few days with a few crates on hand from the grocery store.

 

[Rea]

For me if somehow Sony not opting for a few features to make it classed as not a full RDNA2 GPU means its in between then its just really a classification thing. If that's how this is working. Does seem weird though as clearly its RDNA2 based as Cerny said but also custom so maybe officially not RDNA2 as it will be known as standard.

It has all meaningful advancements of RDNA2 and whatever they wanted from the architecture from 1, 2 and beyond if it was viable or RDNA3 may develop in line with some feature the companies collaborated on.

So maybe all statements are right and this is a storm in a teacup.

We also know the real world results have PS5 and XSX games at identical resolution and framrates so far so can't be much different and devs say are close.

So it probably is what it is a highly custom GPU based on RDNA2 but not stock with some fearures discarded so maybe thats where between 1 and 2 come from, then again it still makes little sense to say it like that you would say its RDNA 2 but not stock as we didn't need all the features.

So again its confusing because this doesn't really make much sense....

According to AMD roadmap there is 3 main based function for rdna 2 which are:
1. Perf/watt
2. Ray tracing
3. Variable rate shading.
Cerny said amd is continously improving and adding features for rdna 2, so they might add more features in addition to the 3 basic features. I believe ps5 has those 3 basic features to be called rdna 2 and also their own unique feature which is gpu scrubber (maybe more which they might share in the future) but not all features that amd might add to their pc gpu. That's why it is called custom rdna 2 based. During road to ps5 cerny already confirm 2 things from rdna2; perf/watt(obviously the clocks are so high) and ray tracing. Variable rate shading is part of geometry engine and mesh shader is the same as primitive shading.
This is purely just my speculation. I may or may not wrong, but it is highly possible IMO.

 

[FranXico]

mesh shader is the same as primitive shading.

Not quite.

 

[Jason28]

Guys, what the fuck is going on ?
I just read that Rosario Leonardi tweets about PS5 RDNA were fake. Holy shit, is that true ? WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON ?

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

According to AMD roadmap there is 3 main based function for rdna 2 which are:
1. Perf/watt
2. Ray tracing
3. Variable rate shading.
Cerny said amd is continously improving and adding features for rdna 2, so they might add more features in addition to the 3 basic features. I believe ps5 has those 3 basic features to be called rdna 2 and also their own unique feature which is gpu scrubber (maybe more which they might share in the future) but not all features that amd might add to their pc gpu. That's why it is called custom rdna 2 based. During road to ps5 cerny already confirm 2 things from rdna2; perf/watt(obviously the clocks are so high) and ray tracing. Variable rate shading is part of geometry engine and mesh shader is the same as primitive shading.
This is purely just my speculation. I may or may not wrong, but it is highly possible IMO.

Yes which make the statement from the sony guy even more confusing. Am not sure what its missing that would not mean its not RDNA2 if it has the the advancements that RDNA2 has.

Unless the whole stock RDNA2 which we knew its not anyway its custom. Or the satement was based on it not having every single feature even not relevant ones.

Removing those (to sony) redundant features meant it wasn't full RDNA2 but in every meaningful way possible it is.

Time for a lie down...

 

[asustitan]

nevermind

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Way back in January, Jim Ryan was interviewed as saying

On the Unique Appeals of PlayStation 5


Jim Ryan: "Each time a new console is released, the processor and graphics improve. Those are enticing of course, but we need to have special appeals as well. We have already confirmed the use of an solid-state drive. Having load times that are next to nothing is a major change.


"3D audio and the haptic feedback support of the controller are also things that, when you try them, you will be surprised at how big a change they are. Even just playing the racing game Gran Turismo Sport with a PlayStation 5 controller is a completely different experience. While it runs well with the previous controller, there is no going back after you experience the detailed road surface via haptic control and play using the adaptive triggers.


"But you know. There are still more unique elements for PlayStation 5 to come that separate it from previous consoles. The 'bigger differences' have yet to be announced."

PS5 – unique, unannounced features teased by Sony Interactive Entertainment president

Business Insider Japan has published a new interview with Sony Interactive Entertainment president and CEO Jim Ryan, who touches briefly upon the newly revealed PlayStation 5 logo; teases unique, u…

www.gematsu.com

Sounds like something Aaron Greenberg would say. Then again they are both marketing guys. I do expect Sony to have some new great software, OS features

 

[sircaw]

Guys, what the fuck is going on ?
I just read that Rosario Leonardi tweets about PS5 RDNA were fake. Holy shit, is that true ? WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON ?

It means Horizon Zero Dawn two is going to look magnificent next Generation, with basically instantaneous load times.

We have already seen Ratchet and clank in full swing, at is it Gorgeous, agree>????????????

Next Generation promises to Deliver big time, at least from the Playstation side of things.
Lets see what Xbox has next week, hope its good.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

Guys, what the fuck is going on ?
I just read that Rosario Leonardi tweets about PS5 RDNA were fake. Holy shit, is that true ? WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON ?

What did you read? Have you looked back through this thread to see how this came about?

The DM was posted by GS and I've taken it at face value. The tweets I saw and then were deleted so... please explain....

 

[scie]

Guys, what the fuck is going on ?
I just read that Rosario Leonardi tweets about PS5 RDNA were fake. Holy shit, is that true ? WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON ?

We don't know. Yesterday someone posted a link to that tweet. I clicked on it and it showed up as a tweet from Rosario Leonardi with the whole based on Navi and no ML stuff. So I saw it personally on twitter and not as a screenshot. If you click on that link now it say that the tweet is deleted. I don't know how easy and good you can fake something like that directly on twitter.

 

[geordiemp]

Yes which make the statement from the sony guy even more confusing. Am not sure what its missing that would not mean its not RDNA2 if it has the the advancements that RDNA2 has.

Unless the whole stock RDNA2 which we knew its not anyway its custom. Or the satement was based on it not having every single feature even not relevant ones.

Removing those (to sony) redundant features meant it wasn't full RDNA2 but in every meaningful way possible it is.

Time for a lie down...

Both XSX and Ps5 are not full RDNA2 which will come to PC when its ready. So both PS5 and XSX are custom and could only use the RDNA2 feature set avaialble at the time.

AMD's RDNA 2 Next-Generation GPU architecture for Radeon is not the same as the XSX or the Sony PS5. The semi-custom implementation is a different architecture as the one soon to be featured in the upcoming Radeon GPUs.

AMD's RDNA2 Next-Generation Architecture For Radeon Is Not Identical To Xbox Series X Or PS5

Architectural reveals of the next-generation consoles have had enthusiasts discussing AMD's upcoming RDNA2 architecture with much gusto and has started the inevitable speculation on how RDNA2 will translate into next-generation Radeon graphics cards. Unfortunately, or fortunately, a source...

wccftech.com

I guess its back to the drawing board for discord.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Well this was entertaining

Let them have the W. Xbox dudes needed something exclusive to talk about this month with Paper Mario and Ghosts out

 

[splattered]

Its going to be Glorious when they finally reveal everything.

He was just talking about being able to blow into the controller and Geoff ready spoiled that for us. Haha

 

[lepermessiah]

Once Cerny does the tear down hopefully everyone will stfu. This is fkn exhausting. A new circle of hell has been created. I'll be back once the tear down is done. Until then, I'll be lathering up Spence in the tub and eating hot fud...ge off his brick sculpted ass mmm.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

Both XSX and Ps5 are not full RDNA2 which will come to PC when its ready. So both PS5 and XSX are custom and could only use the RDNA2 feature set avaialble at the time.

AMD's RDNA2 Next-Generation Architecture For Radeon Is Not Identical To Xbox Series X Or PS5

Architectural reveals of the next-generation consoles have had enthusiasts discussing AMD's upcoming RDNA2 architecture with much gusto and has started the inevitable speculation on how RDNA2 will translate into next-generation Radeon graphics cards. Unfortunately, or fortunately, a source...

wccftech.com

I guess its back to the drawing board for discord.

So do you agree the message from Gavin and the Sony guy was legit and that its more of a meaningless technicality weve been debating here, on people's misunderstanding of it being actual 'full RDNA2' when it's basically just as much RDNA2 as it could be?

 

[Rea]

Both XSX and Ps5 are not full RDNA2 which will come to PC when its ready. So both PS5 and XSX are custom and could only use the RDNA2 feature set avaialble at the time.

Exactly, it is understandable because high end Rdna2 GPU will cost about the same as both consoles combined. Even if those x box fan boys boasting it is full Rdna 2, their console won't be full Rdna2, making themselves look like fools.

 

[SportsFan581]

Please have some compassion with those people. This is what happen when you don't have games, you go to the internet and keep posting BS all day... sad life tho lol

When you look around at comments online in general the sad state of the world becomes clear.

Instead of worrying and warring about specs, you could just save that energy and wait to compare third-party software. If one system is a half-gen behind the other, this is where you will see it.

 

[Knitted Knight]

If you have someone like @Bernkastel still around here on Gaf, those FUD threads about PS will always pop up. Imagine being this invested in your console, that X discord group is really pathetic. Even calling @Mod of War a pile of shit, very edgy.

Just shows Mod of War has a thick skin. Why would he get worked up by manchildren? Every time they make a FUD thread they know he knows. Back during 2013 before the PS4 release Microsoft astroturfers invaded Gaf too, and most of them were swatted down. That is to say, even with all the stringent requirements and rules for membership back then, and more mods, a few still got through to spread FUD. Now it's an open lane. You swatt a few of them, and a couple of accounts are ready as back up. You need a lot more mod manpower to keep a lid on this. Anyone that reads Bernkanstel and like folk knows what they're getting.

Miserable with a lot of time on their hands, no games to play after all. Very self-aware to be miserable, but can't help it.

 

[Andodalf]

Way back in January, Jim Ryan was interviewed as saying

On the Unique Appeals of PlayStation 5


Jim Ryan: "Each time a new console is released, the processor and graphics improve. Those are enticing of course, but we need to have special appeals as well. We have already confirmed the use of an solid-state drive. Having load times that are next to nothing is a major change.


"3D audio and the haptic feedback support of the controller are also things that, when you try them, you will be surprised at how big a change they are. Even just playing the racing game Gran Turismo Sport with a PlayStation 5 controller is a completely different experience. While it runs well with the previous controller, there is no going back after you experience the detailed road surface via haptic control and play using the adaptive triggers.


"But you know. There are still more unique elements for PlayStation 5 to come that separate it from previous consoles. The 'bigger differences' have yet to be announced."

PS5 – unique, unannounced features teased by Sony Interactive Entertainment president

Business Insider Japan has published a new interview with Sony Interactive Entertainment president and CEO Jim Ryan, who touches briefly upon the newly revealed PlayStation 5 logo; teases unique, u…

www.gematsu.com

This is from January. We've already heard what this was, Tempest and SSD SSD SSD

 

[geordiemp]

So do you agree the message from Gavin and the Sony guy was legit and that its more of a meaningless technicality weve been debating here, on people's misunderstanding of it being actual 'full RDNA2' when it's basically just as much RDNA2 as it could be?

I dont really care for a fake developer trying to bait an engineer and whether the DM was real or faked - Its just sad either way for putting peoples livelihoods at risk for NDA and they have nothing better to do than harras Sony engineers on social media. Anyway, if he ever wanted to work on a real dev kit, I doubt he has killed that from ever happening - he was already found out on b3d and schooled so I have no interest in this pathetic charade.

The fact is RDNA2 is not out yet, even on PC,a nd if XSX and PS5 is in production first then logically they are both custom and there may be other stuff on the PC part that did not make the cut. IF people want to classify that as part RDNA2, Part RDNA 1.9 or whatever it does not matter.

Sony and mS are both on part EUV 7nm, and all the design logic will be on that node, so the 50 % perf per watt.

The rest of the logic chosen is what is desired. Maybe Sony kept the Corehency engine from Ps4 pro, they did already say that, and introduced Cache scrubbers which could be RDNA2.5 as its unique to Sony (Cerny said so).

Thats 2 examples, 1 old GCN / RDNA1 (Coherency), 1 new (Cache scrubbers) could be RDNA3. We will need a tear down to see more, you can watch road to Ps5 on GPU where Cerny mentions a few new ps5 tricks, might be different from MS new XSX tricks.

 

[Rea]

So do you agree the message from Gavin and the Sony guy was legit and that its more of a meaningless technicality weve been debating here, on people's misunderstanding of it being actual 'full RDNA2' when it's basically just as much RDNA2 as it could be?

The debates about whether these consoles are full Rdna 2 or not, is meaningless as both won't have full features of Rdna2. It wouldn't be possible for Amd to make gpu for these consoles with full fat RDNA2 features and cost about half of their flagship GPUs. It doesn't make sense.

 

[pawel86ck]

The CU difference is already seen in the TFlops difference, of course here XSX has the advantage. But having more CU does not necessary means something good, specially at the cost of a lower clock speed.

The problem is, PS5 clock remain a mystery, because you dont know how far PS5 will downclock. During "the road to PS5" talk Carny said he expect PS5 to stay at close to 2.2GHz most of the time, but he also contradicted himself saying PS5 GPU cant sustain 2GHz fixed clock (9.2TF), and that's why they have to use variable clock.

I think this variable strategy will work very well in games with framerate lock and fixed resolution, because in such scenario GPU is not pushed to it's limits anyway, and 2.2GHz clock is only used when needed. There are however also games with unlocked framerate and dynamic resolution. In such game PS5 GPU will have to run at 100% for extended period of time and I'm afraid we will never know how far PS5 GPU will have to downclock in such scenario.

Edit. - As I can see PS warriors have aready reported my post. But I'm not surprised PS certain people cant stand the truth, and especially when Cerny hismelf contradicts their believes.

Rea -
Old paradigm = fixed clock
New paradigm = variable clock

I didn't hear he said that. He never said can't sustained 2.ghz, he said 'with old paradigm it wouldn't be possible to clock gpu at 2ghz but with new paradigm it go so high in fact they have to lock at 2.23ghz to fit within the logic of model soc controller. ' and he said gpu will spend most of its time at 2.23GHz and downclock will be pretty minor and also the race to idle is taken out of the equation.

Cerny said it's impossible to sustain 2GHz clock with old paradigm (fixed clock). So based on what he said we know PS5 will not run at 2GHz clock for extended period of time, yet you want to believe PS5 GPU will have no problems sustaining even higher frequency. You guys want to believe in fairy tales for real? 2GHz and higher 2.2GHz is only possible thanks to the new paradigm (variable clock). Yes, with this strategy PS5 GPU can run 2.2GHz when game will need more GPU resources (for short period of time however). Cerny is right saying PS5 could hit even higher frequency than 2.2 GHz, because that's also the case on PC when you OC GPUs (it's easy to achieve every high frequency for short period of time, but in order to find stable clock you have to test what's the max sustained freqency).

Variable boost clock strategy simply means more performance, and more performance is always a good thing. Developers on PS5 know for sure how far PS5 GPU will downclock in the worst possible scenario and they can always optimize for this fixed clock (and everything above this clock will be a bonus). So it's not like variable clock is a bad thing like some people suggest and my only issue is Cerny dont want to be transparent with people about PS5 real clock.

PlayStation 5's Boost Clock Design Opens Up a Lot of Opportunities, Says Developer

Sony's PlayStation 5 design choice to go with a 'boost clock' design may open up for a lot of opportunities, according to a developer.

wccftech.com

This article also suggest what I'm telling you guys. Developers can push GPU to the max, but sony suggest them to not do it. Sony is tricking people into thinking PS5 really is 10TF console.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Mod note: While we wanted this thread to run as it had sort of moved onto the meta topic, the requirement for sources kept persisting. The moderator went through the chain on twitter and can find no evidence of these tweets. While speculative discussions and unsubstantiated 'leaks' are free to be discussed (in tht spirit), there is a difference in fabricating authoritative sources to validate a claim. Therefore we have the asked for the source and direct link to this specific tweet. If the OP cannot provide it, then we will have to assume the fabrication has been done on purpose and their account will be closed. If the evidence is provided, the thread will be re-opened. In the meantime, people are free to start topics on the RDNA1/1.5/2/3 topic from a more holistic point of view.

Thats from the closed thread that O'Dium created. We have to wait and see what happens. I thought it might be relevant here as well.

One of the tweets that they are making a reference to is the one where he states it lacks ML. Not the DM because I don't think that's possible to prove without having access to his Twitter account.

 

[geordiemp]

The debates about whether these consoles are full Rdna 2 or not, is meaningless as both won't have full features of Rdna2. It wouldn't be possible for Amd to make gpu for these consoles with full fat RDNA2 features and cost about half of their flagship GPUs. It doesn't make sense.

If Big navi enters production later than the consoles, it will have some differences. Who knows what AMD will include in the final revision, maybe they are working on their own tensor cores or DLSS ? Either way, any late changes wont be in ps5 or XSX.

 

[Falc67]

If you have someone like @Bernkastel still around here on Gaf, those FUD threads about PS will always pop up. Imagine being this invested in your console, that X discord group is really pathetic. Even calling @Mod of War a pile of shit, very edgy.

Lol, so Prolite/Dukeblueballs was TommyFishser?

 

[geordiemp]

Mod note: While we wanted this thread to run as it had sort of moved onto the meta topic, the requirement for sources kept persisting. The moderator went through the chain on twitter and can find no evidence of these tweets. While speculative discussions and unsubstantiated 'leaks' are free to be discussed (in tht spirit), there is a difference in fabricating authoritative sources to validate a claim. Therefore we have the asked for the source and direct link to this specific tweet. If the OP cannot provide it, then we will have to assume the fabrication has been done on purpose and their account will be closed. If the evidence is provided, the thread will be re-opened. In the meantime, people are free to start topics on the RDNA1/1.5/2/3 topic from a more holistic point of view.

Thats from the closed thread that O'Dium created. We have to wait and see what happens. I thought it might be relevant here as well.

One of the tweets that they are making a reference to is the one where he states it lacks ML. Not the DM because I don't think that's possible to prove without having access to his Twitter account.

You do recall that Ps4 pro added additional FP16 to the design (and the funny TF discssions that followed on here ?), FP16 is the basis of Tensor cores (4 x 4 FP16). We await more detail on what Ps5 has included in detail, it would not eb surprising if they kept the FP16 on pro for BC, or maybe added to it...who knows ?

Maybe the extra Fp16 adds to the rdna1 list , quick call the discord hotline !

We can only assume Sony have included from the menu of RDNA2 what they deem necessary for ps5, as have MS. Its a bit like sitting at a restaurant with a menu and selecting what to eat and what you dont need, the menu is what RDNA2 was at the time.

ML stuff for servers who knows whats included ? There was speculation XSX has these and is a split board design so can be also be used in server applications.

 

[SlimySnake]

We don't know. Yesterday someone posted a link to that tweet. I clicked on it and it showed up as a tweet from Rosario Leonardi with the whole based on Navi and no ML stuff. So I saw it personally on twitter and not as a screenshot. If you click on that link now it say that the tweet is deleted. I don't know how easy and good you can fake something like that directly on twitter.

What did you read? Have you looked back through this thread to see how this came about?

The DM was posted by GS and I've taken it at face value. The tweets I saw and then were deleted so... please explain....

You two need to pm mod of war that you saw that tweet because there is no way gavin can prove they existed.

 

[LED Guy?]

Some Xbox extremists think that the differences between XSX & PS5 are gonna be huge & that makes me laugh

The GPU difference between PS4 & Xbox One was a big one (almost 40%), while here between XSX & PS5 is 16% which is sooooo small, you can even see the differences of those in some PC GPU performance comparisons which were very small.

In the end, gamers came here to play games, not to pixel count and licking Phil Spencer's taint.

 

[ksdixon]

when controller was first seen, Sony said there were more secrets about it that were not yet revealed. Well... there's no back triggers, and Geoff didn't whip out a PS5 ''Pro'' pad, so what gives?

 

[geordiemp]

The problem is, PS5 clock remain a mystery, because you dont know how far PS5 will downclock. During "the road to PS5" talk Carny said he expect PS5 to stay at close to 2.2GHz most of the time, but he also contradicted himself saying PS5 GPU cant sustain 2GHz fixed clock (9.2TF), and that's why they have to use variable clock.

I think yhis variable strategy will work very well in games with framerate lock and fixed resolution, because in such scenario GPU is not pushed to it's limits anyway, and 2.2GHz clock is only used when needed. There are however also games with unlocked framerate and dynamic resolution. In such game PS5 GPU will have to run at 100% for extended period of time and I'm afraid we will never know how far PS5 GPU will have to downclock in such scenario.

Appreciate your concern.

 

[FranXico]

You two need to pm mod of war that you saw that tweet because there is no way gavin can prove they existed.

I thought he already provided proof to the mods?

 

[Rea]

but he also contradicted himself saying PS5 GPU cant sustain 2GHz fixed clock (9.2TF)

I didn't hear he said that. He never said can't sustained 2.ghz, he said 'with old paradigm it wouldn't be possible to clock gpu at 2ghz but with new paradigm it go so high in fact they have to lock at 2.23ghz to fit within the logic of model soc controller. ' and he said gpu will spend most of its time at 2.23GHz and downclock will be pretty minor and also the race to idle is taken out of the equation.

 

[jose4gg]

The problem is, PS5 clock remain a mystery, because you dont know how far PS5 will downclock. During "the road to PS5" talk Carny said he expect PS5 to stay at close to 2.2GHz most of the time, but he also contradicted himself saying PS5 GPU cant sustain 2GHz fixed clock (9.2TF), and that's why they have to use variable clock.

I think yhis variable strategy will work very well in games with framerate lock and fixed resolution, because in such scenario GPU is not pushed to it's limits anyway, and 2.2GHz clock is only used when needed. There are however also games with unlocked framerate and dynamic resolution. In such game PS5 GPU will have to run at 100% for extended period of time and I'm afraid we will never know how far PS5 GPU will have to downclock in such scenario.

he never contradicted himself, yeah you cannot sustain 2GHz Using a fixed clock strategy, but they are using a variable clock strategy, not a fixed one. Your concerns are the same concerns we all can have about every other component in both the ps5 and Xsx. Are concerns that we still don't have prove are real issues. When the machine comes out DF will tell us if the variable frequency was a mistake or not.

Another thing is that the ps5 vary it's clock NOT BASED ON TEMPERATURE It does not matter how "long is the period of time you are playing" what matter is if the GPU&CPU both are running at TOP speed and MAX power which is very rare in almost every game not matter how stressful is to run the game for a graphics card. This week there were some videos proving that ...

 

[Nowcry]

The problem is, PS5 clock remain a mystery, because you dont know how far PS5 will downclock. During "the road to PS5" talk Carny said he expect PS5 to stay at close to 2.2GHz most of the time, but he also contradicted himself saying PS5 GPU cant sustain 2GHz fixed clock (9.2TF), and that's why they have to use variable clock.

I think yhis variable strategy will work very well in games with framerate lock and fixed resolution, because in such scenario GPU is not pushed to it's limits anyway, and 2.2GHz clock is only used when needed. There are however also games with unlocked framerate and dynamic resolution. In such game PS5 GPU will have to run at 100% for extended period of time and I'm afraid we will never know how far PS5 GPU will have to downclock in such scenario.

Stop spreading FUD.

At no point did Road To PS5 say that PS5 cannot support 2 GHz, Cerny actually said quite the opposite, that they could have raised the clock even more but that the GPU logic prevented it.

He also commented that the clock will be kept at maximum most of the time, and that if necessary, the PS5 could lower the frequency of the GPU by 2% to cause a decrease in consumption of 10%. Leaving the machine at about 10.08 Tflops.

On the other hand, there are many ways to improve the graphics, you talk a lot about Tflops that produce lighting effects that are good, but you talk little about I / O and its importance in improving the efficiency of VRAM, and transmitting geometry and textures.

From my point of view, improvements in Geometry + textures >>>>>>>>> improvements in lighting.

 

[scie]

You two need to pm mod of war that you saw that tweet because there is no way gavin can prove they existed.

I pmed mod of war and told him what I saw.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Just popped in to clear a few things up, as it appears some things got confused or lost along the way:

- I never made that other thread, somebody else did
- I never posted about the Sony guys ML "tweets", somebody else did
- in fact, I haven't spoke about those ML tweets, as they are not from from my profile or related to me at all. He posted them before he spoke to me.
- he did however speak to me in public, and somebody posted those tweets (Different to the ML ones). But they were uninteresting for the most part.
- the dm pic I posted. I deleted a few minutes later.
- the dm contained no information not already known, and HE contacted ME. No baiting involved, no tricking. He simply said he would look into the other stuff for me.
- the nda mentioned in the dm was in relation to if he could speak publicly about whether the ps5 had a solution to compete with the updated SFS that wasn't just PRT or SF (A lot of people assume SFS is just SF, it's not, it has many more additions that make it far superior). That's all. He's a smart guy, he wouldn't talk about not wanting to break his NDA about something, then break it about something else.
- there's some authenticity issue as to whether that DM is real or not for you guys. It is, and evidence of which has been sent to the moderators here and documented.
- the reason some people claim what I explained was wrong, was actually spoken about with the MS engineer. It was supposed to be an entry to SFS, with a follow up later. It wasn't supposed to be a big in-depth discussion. I actually hit on the other points later. As it stands PS5 doesn't contain a SFS alternative, but does contain PRT. PRT is equivalent to SF, *NOT* SFS. Xbox does SFS in hardware, where Ps5 could do the same if wanted but in software. The whole point of discussion with Sony was clarifying their position with this. Nothing more, nothing less.
- nobody was harassed, despite what geordiemp keeps saying. These two people first contacted me the same day that thread was posted, posted a couple of times, then left. I had no prior contact with them. Any info they gave up was discussed freely on their own behalf, and these tweets still exist for you to check. They were James Stanard @JamesStanard (MS) and Rosario Leonardi @ilMal3 (Sony). Neither of these people were harassed, or did anything wrong.

That's my last bit on what to say. I wasn't going to post again but felt a need to correct some parts, like me making that other thread (I didn't) or me posting the other tweets (not me or involving me), which was nothing to do with me and a conversation he had between other people on other twitter posts, not mine.

Thanks.

 

[FranXico]

Just popped in to clear a few things up, as it appears some things got confused or lost along the way:

- I never made that other thread, somebody else did
- I never posted about the Sony guys ML "tweets", somebody else did
- in fact, I haven't spoke about those ML tweets, as they are not from from my profile or related to me at all. He posted them before he spoke to me.
- he did however speak to me in public, and somebody posted those tweets (Different to the ML ones). But they were uninteresting for the most part.
- the dm pic I posted. I deleted a few minutes later.
- the dm contained no information not already known, and HE contacted ME. No baiting involved, no tricking. He simply said he would look into the other stuff for me.
- the nda mentioned in the dm was in relation to if he could speak publicly about whether the ps5 had a solution to compete with the updated SFS that wasn't just PRT or SF. That's all. He's a smart guy, he wouldn't talk about not wanting to break his NDA about something, then break it about something else.
- there's some authenticity issue as to whether that DM is real or not for you guys. It is, and evidence of which has been sent to the moderators here and documented.

That's my last bit on what to say. I wasn't going to post again but felt a need to correct some parts, like me making that other thread, or me posting the other tweets, which was nothing to do with me and a conversation he had between other people on other twitter posts, not mine.

Thanks.

Thanks for taking the time to clarify.

We will all leave you be. Everything has gotten too far for far too long as it is.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Just popped in to clear a few things up, as it appears some things got confused or lost along the way:

- I never made that other thread, somebody else did
- I never posted about the Sony guys ML "tweets", somebody else did
- in fact, I haven't spoke about those ML tweets, as they are not from from my profile or related to me at all. He posted them before he spoke to me.
- he did however speak to me in public, and somebody posted those tweets (Different to the ML ones). But they were uninteresting for the most part.
- the dm pic I posted. I deleted a few minutes later.
- the dm contained no information not already known, and HE contacted ME. No baiting involved, no tricking. He simply said he would look into the other stuff for me.
- the nda mentioned in the dm was in relation to if he could speak publicly about whether the ps5 had a solution to compete with the updated SFS that wasn't just PRT or SF. That's all. He's a smart guy, he wouldn't talk about not wanting to break his NDA about something, then break it about something else.
- there's some authenticity issue as to whether that DM is real or not for you guys. It is, and evidence of which has been sent to the moderators here and documented.

That's my last bit on what to say. I wasn't going to post again but felt a need to correct some parts, like me making that other thread (I didn't) or me posting the other tweets (not me or involving me), which was nothing to do with me and a conversation he had between other people on other twitter posts, not mine.

Thanks.

Well if he wasn't breaking NDA then I guess it really is just a customized RDNA2 chip because that's what's public knowledge. RDNA1 with RDNA2 features bolted on wouldn't be common knowledge because that's something Sony has never confirmed.

Thanks for the clarification. It's been a wild ride.

 

[geordiemp]

Just popped in to clear a few things up, as it appears some things got confused or lost along the way:

- I never made that other thread, somebody else did
- I never posted about the Sony guys ML "tweets", somebody else did
- in fact, I haven't spoke about those ML tweets, as they are not from from my profile or related to me at all. He posted them before he spoke to me.
- he did however speak to me in public, and somebody posted those tweets (Different to the ML ones). But they were uninteresting for the most part.
- the dm pic I posted. I deleted a few minutes later.
- the dm contained no information not already known, and HE contacted ME. No baiting involved, no tricking. He simply said he would look into the other stuff for me.
- the nda mentioned in the dm was in relation to if he could speak publicly about whether the ps5 had a solution to compete with the updated SFS that wasn't just PRT or SF. That's all. He's a smart guy, he wouldn't talk about not wanting to break his NDA about something, then break it about something else.
- there's some authenticity issue as to whether that DM is real or not for you guys. It is, and evidence of which has been sent to the moderators here and documented.

That's my last bit on what to say. I wasn't going to post again but felt a need to correct some parts, like me making that other thread (I didn't) or me posting the other tweets (not me or involving me), which was nothing to do with me and a conversation he had between other people on other twitter posts, not mine.

Thanks.

The issue I have is that you have been harrassing developers and engineers on social media and you have used your real name. If you had aspriations to be a genuine developer and ever see next gen console dev kit, then its a bit late to be making amends.

I just hope your actions have not got that Sony engineer in trouble with HR. It does not look good on you either I am sure you have now realised that.

I will say no more on the matter. Good luck with that.

 

[Tripolygon]

Don't you just love when people start false rumors by saying "some people are saying"? It is not me who is saying it, some people are saying it.

Gavin Stevens you were fundamentally wrong with your whole explanation of what SFS was. I was glad to see James corrected you on that. Not only that you stated that "Traditional systems yes the PS5 work this way"

The only part you got partially right was your explanation of virtual texturing and the use of pages and mips. What you also got wrong is your insinuation that traditionally developers just load higher resolution textures without taking into account what is actually visible, distance and other parameters. Developers have been speculatively loading textures forever long before GPUs started to have hardware to natively assist in doing it more efficiently.

Frostbite BF3 on PS3

You were promptly corrected with actual proof that even PS4 had native hardware support for virtual texturing. The question you should have asked yourself is if PS4 had native support for it, why wouldn't PS5? Why would PS5 forgo years of knowledge in efficient memory and bandwidth conservation? Why wouldn't Sony adopt newer development in this space like Nvidia, AMD and everyone else?

Far Cry 4 PS4

Spoiler: Stuff

 

[Three Jackdaws]

 

[Imtjnotu]

Heb

no imagination needed.
Cerny DID say this in his interview in AV watch Japan.
Here's a link to the interview, what you are looking for is the last paragraph:

【西田宗千佳のRandomTracking】 マーク・サーニーが明かす「PS4 Pro」の秘密。「解像感の高い4K」のための工夫

PlayStation 4 Pro(PS4 Pro)は、「4K世代」に向け、PS4をアップデートしたハードウエアである。9月の発表以来、ハードウェアスペックは語られてきたが、デモを見たわけではないユーザーの立場から見ると、「実際にどう違うのか」分かりづらい部分があったと思う。エンターテインメントとしての「ゲームのビジュアル」がどこまで進化するのか、半信半疑な部分もあろうかと思う。

av.watch.impress.co.jp

let me translate for you:

<< "If you're rendering natively in 4K, that's a personal estimate, but you'll need at least 8TFLOPS,
It's not a technology that can be used at a reasonable price this year", Cerny said. >>

said this before the launch of the pro. It had nothing to do with the one x which launched a whole year later.

So how is this throwing shade in any direction?

 

[CurtBizzy]

If RDNA 2 runs AC Valhalla at 30fps, you can keep it

 

[SSfox]

Sorry if this was posted already

 

[jose4gg]

If RDNA 2 runs AC Valhalla at 30fps, you can keep it

This is the first game of the series we know UBISOFT won't hold the game for a couple of months in order to make the engines compatible with the new machines, This is a yearly saga.

The next AC will look better and run better I hope