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eastwood333
Banned
I mean, Halo Infinite was developed with XB1 in mind and obviously ported over to XSX. It's not a reflection of the power of the XSX itself, but the consequences of developing for a 1.3tf machine with a jaguar cpu, no SSD, etc...
Avowed, Hellblade2, Forza, Everwild, Fable,The Initiatives new game,The Coalitions new game, etc will show what the XSX is capable of. The future is bright for XSX despite the poor Halo Infinite showing. Xbox fans know this.
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GRIEVEZ
Member
Why?... I mean if the garage shot was in-engine it looks good. But id reserve judgement on this kind of thing untill theres gameplay tbh.
eastwood333
Banned
I don't know, The Initiative are building up an All Star team, but still way too early to say.
Metroiddarks
Member
That game will looks gorgeous the Forza horizon 4 will looks as a photo mode.
Also I want to Gears 5 (I just hope the fix that IA) and Halo 5 we know that game will looks better than the Infinite.
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eastwood333
Banned
Impossible as long as a game was in development for 5 years with the XB1 in mind, while just porting it over to XSX. I was hoping/expecting it to be co developed for both machines like Forza Horizon 2 did for XB360/XB1.
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Classicrockfan
Banned
Yea it did look good but I'm more into open world racers like the horizon games,im hoping the next is set in Japan.
Apollo Helios
Member
343 really bungled up Halo... I mean I was a little hyped and expecting something really magical from it like something to hold me off till eventual Mass Effect Trilogy Remaster, and even though it was just a game for me for many xbox fans it was one of the only games that they would have boasted if all the MS talks about it came true, but alas it was a massive let down even for them, now it is just a standard Halo game with expectedly generic Halo shooting which xbox fans now have to label as having 'great gameplay'. It is just a shooter in space now, not something special not because of the graphics, (or not just) but the gameplay looked exactly the same as previous games plus a grappling hook (like it is something imaginative, almost every shooter had it in recent years). That must have hurt. But they should be angry at MS and 343 not other gamers rightfully bashing the unimaginative game when it was shouted from the rooftops that the game was gonna be a revolutionizing entry in Halo franchise.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
People in this thread need new news about those consoles. To much hating against ms and xbox now. Yeah Halo was disappointing but lets just wait how things evolve from there. Sony can still fuck up with delays, downgrades,prices,bad manufacturing and whatnot.
Lets chill and move past that halo stuff.
Lets chill and move past that halo stuff.
TJC
Member
All them games are 3-4 years away. Maybe HB comes first around 2022 early on. You can't scream power and specs and then only update old titles to run with better frames and resolution. It's next gen who cares what old games play like. When guerilla release HZD2 in 2021 I will be very surprised if it's not the best looking game out there. MS need to stop talking so much and just concentrate on games. Sony have released 2 banger's a month after each other and all MS do is talk nonsense. Let your games do the talking for your system not PR crap.
Snowdonhoffen
Member
Yes, the console is capable of a lot more, but we were told by the likes of Greenberg and Spencer that Xbox Series X games being held back by the Xbox One was just a meme and that Halo Infinite was being natively built for the XSX. And now we know that is not the case.
GRIEVEZ
Member
You know... there's room for growth of each respective platform... No need to bait people..
Just make a quality Meme and shit on fans that way. Its a lot more amusing for everyone involved
eastwood333
Banned
I'm not sure this is on 343I as much as its on MS for making the decision to have this game on both XB1 and XSX. That could have put 343I in a major bind
eastwood333
Banned
I understand that. But many on here are implying that Halo Infinite is representative of XSX's power. Aaron told a flat out lie and i've never been a fan of that guy.
Apollo Helios
Member
So now 'being held back is a meme' has became the real meme huh? Oh how the tables have turned...
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Like who? I mean, besides the obvious trolls
Sinthor
Gold Member
Looks pretty interesting but yeah..not loading whole 'worlds' or levels. Actually this looks like a different take on a Quantic Dream type of game. Will be curious to see more about it.
Sinthor
Gold Member
yewles1
Member
They've been able to tell apart 4K resolution buffers before, but the LitLoN UE5 demo caused a combination of Epic's TAAU with compressed geometry per pixel from Nanite to create a faux 6K output that DF needed to be told what the native res was. Halo Infinite I speculate, is being protected from such scrutiny as evidenced by Alex's downplaying of the 720p VRS trees on other forums.
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eastwood333
Banned
Triggered?
Just curious though. Why all the salt?
I never baught into the 13tf rumor, therefore, no salt taken
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Sinthor
Gold Member
So are you of the opinion now then that cross generational games like Halo, that have to support XB1 as well, will have struggles in that department? It makes sense to me, other than for the graphics themselves. Like on PC I think they can make graphics scale in resolution and refresh rate at least. I think there are more issues to be likely if you're talking about game features that are bound to the CPU since having to have code that a weaker CPU can handle might limit you on the higher power CPU. Is that what we're seeing?
Sinthor
Gold Member
I haven't seen anyone claiming that it's representative of XSX. That's clearly not the case. They've been having fun with those who claimed there would be no effect from having to support legacy hardware as well. Well, that and that the gameplay shown looked nothing close to the earlier trailer. Halo Infinite is clearly having some issues, WHATEVER the cause is and I don't know that we know enough right now to really tell what those issues are, for certain.
But as for power I think pretty much everyone, if not everyone understands that what we see for XSX will be pretty much what you get on PS5 and what is shown for PS5 will be pretty much what you get on XSX. At least from what we know right now. Once we have the full technical scoop on both boxes and see more titles that run on both, we can be more certain.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
eastwood333
Banned
It's a complicated matter. Depends on how scalable the engine is. Are the devs given enough time to do more than just a port with basically untouched XB1 assets? Clearly thats not the case with Slip Engine and Halo Infinite. Games have been developed on PC and scaled down for years. But i do acknowledge there are limitations, a huge gap in technolgy between a 1.3tf machine vs a 12tf machine with completely different achitectures. As i previously stated, i hoped/expected that both console versions would have been developed seperately(Forza Horizon 2 for example). But maybe that's just not realistic and would had been too much of an undertaking.
I think i expected what most others expected for the XSX version. Higher resolution, better framerate, better lighting(ray tracing in some fashion/GI), better draw distances, better textures, particle effects, overall detail, faster loading, little to zero pop in, implementation of RDNA 2 features etc.
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JTCx
Member
Yup they should show their disdain towards MS/343, but nope because all the haters are Sony fanboys everything is fine it just needs RT, gameplay is all that matters. Everywhere you look MS is getting their shit pushed in. Even motherfucking Dominos Pizza is roasting their ass but i guess theyre Sony fans too LOL. These MS fans should want better from them, if they fuck up then let them know. But nope they keep gobbling up all these contradictory and confusing marketing bs. Anyways not my problem, sucks to be them.
yewles1
Member
Sinthor
Gold Member
Well, more and more it seems (to me) that the only real solution to having graphics, etc. truly scaled up and down between hardware like this might be Machine Learning and having the hardware (or software) itself adjust the graphics. I still....still think there are other issues at work there as well. I mean we saw THIS generation how you can deploy a patch and significantly alter the graphics and resolution of titles. What we're seeing right now from Halo is just...odd. Well, we'll see and know more as the game gets close to launch. Regardless, it's Halo and people will have fun with it, regardless of it's technical issues or lack thereof. I'm just a bit more concerned about the strategy of having games available to gamers across so many different platforms. In fact that just made me think...what if the issue isn't caused by XB1 compatibility but instead is a result of having to have something that will run on mobile as well? I dunno..just thought of that. Might be WAY off base!
Mr Moose
Gold Member
You trusted Phil 'the idea of cross-gen games being held back "a meme"' Spencer, he's a used car salesmen. Their real next gen games won't be ready for a while, though I really don't know how they messed up Halo so badly (unfinished engine maybe? incompetence?). It's not your fault, we are meant to trust them.
I hope they change their focus away from the cross-gen stuff ASAP, but I guess it doesn't matter in the end if their next gen games won't be ready any time soon.
JerryinSoCal
Member
How many years away are those games? not one bit of gameplay has been shown, either in engine on PC or CG trailers have been shown for every one of those games. Everwild wasn't gameplay because we don't know what he gameplay is so that's probably "in engine" footage as well.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
I firmly believe their whole cross-gen stance was just a ruse to hide the fact that after Halo, everything else is 2022+
Neo Blaster
Member
There have been some rumours about Halo Infinite development being a s*** show and 343i having a toxic work place according to some former employees, as posted on Reddit. Much more plausible than XSX being unable to run it properly.
kyliethicc
Member
"Halo Infinite is over a year away from release, but it's already causing drama – although it's not from the game itself, but from the game's developer 343 Industries instead. Just two months after the departure of creative director Tim Longo and the appointment of executive producer Mary Olson into a lead producer role, Olson has already moved on and Halo Infinite is without two of its leading developers."
Halo Infinite loses lead producer, two months after creative director
Halo Infinite has lost another lead developer, but 343 insists "there is no creative dilemma inside the studio".
www.pcgamesn.com
Seems like the development has had some issues. 2 leads leaving as the game nears launch is probably a bad sign.
Apollo Helios
Member
To be fair it ran like shit, I hope you could see that it was running like 10-12 frames per second, so basically shit, nowhere near real time. That has to be the 4x super sampling they had to do because the oldest ray tracing algorithms had terrible noise so they had to sample 4x the resolution they are outputting at (720px4=2880p) and at that time that is just nuts, but given this is just a tech experiment I will give them that. Nowadays the de-noising got so much better that sampling rays just quarter or half resolution gets great results and only bc of that we can have anything closely resembling current RT running at 4K in real time. For a demonstration that was okay for RT but better for how they could network 3 systems and have them each render 1/3 of the screen, I think that portion of tech is more amazing to me.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
To even attempt to run it in real time back in the day is impressive! That what I respect here, of course it was laggy as fuck. Still wonderful job in my book.
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EliteSmurf
Member
Youtuber who said an insider told him that the Halo Infinite build was 4 months old and was supposed to originally be on UE4 makes a new video about more behind the scenes of 343.
Says his insider told him Halo Infinite is in development hell (seems obvious)
Pinch of salt of course as I'm not sure how reliable this guy is but these were the other takeaways from the video of why 343 are in a bad state where he talks about a reddit post as well :
Toxic - The positive values of 'respect, integrity, diversity and inclusion' that Microsoft touts do not filter down to 343. Employee claims that they've never worked in such a toxic , aggressive environment.
Dysfunctional - Executives seem badly out-of-touch with their team. Higher ups at 343 don't understand how the studio is doing in day-to-day operations and seem only concerned with pleasing their superiors at MS corporate instead of being advocates of the studio and its workers. This means stuff like not pushing back on unreasonable deadlines or demands from corporate.
Awful build/repo issues - Tests would fail at random and the build was broken more often than not , leading to things being locked down . Which would only lead to people mass-submitting their changes once things got unlocked , leading to a vicious cycle of things "working" before things were locked again.
Really heavy use of contractors- Lack of continuity which could be a recipe for a bloated, hacked-together project as developers have to quickly learn systems that were created by their predecessors(most of whom no longer work at the company) and to make hasty changes as they have less time to get their work done. Detrimental to morale and work ethics as many developers won't be seeing the project they're working on to the end. Expediency is over-favored at the expense of sustainability.
Crunch.
I knew something was going wrong behind the scenes but if this is all true its worse than I originally thought.
Says his insider told him Halo Infinite is in development hell (seems obvious)
Pinch of salt of course as I'm not sure how reliable this guy is but these were the other takeaways from the video of why 343 are in a bad state where he talks about a reddit post as well :
Toxic - The positive values of 'respect, integrity, diversity and inclusion' that Microsoft touts do not filter down to 343. Employee claims that they've never worked in such a toxic , aggressive environment.
Dysfunctional - Executives seem badly out-of-touch with their team. Higher ups at 343 don't understand how the studio is doing in day-to-day operations and seem only concerned with pleasing their superiors at MS corporate instead of being advocates of the studio and its workers. This means stuff like not pushing back on unreasonable deadlines or demands from corporate.
Awful build/repo issues - Tests would fail at random and the build was broken more often than not , leading to things being locked down . Which would only lead to people mass-submitting their changes once things got unlocked , leading to a vicious cycle of things "working" before things were locked again.
Really heavy use of contractors- Lack of continuity which could be a recipe for a bloated, hacked-together project as developers have to quickly learn systems that were created by their predecessors(most of whom no longer work at the company) and to make hasty changes as they have less time to get their work done. Detrimental to morale and work ethics as many developers won't be seeing the project they're working on to the end. Expediency is over-favored at the expense of sustainability.
Crunch.
I knew something was going wrong behind the scenes but if this is all true its worse than I originally thought.
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JonnyMP3
Member
Sounds like Reddit is his insider.
Wraith Phantom
Member
Someone get a spec bump. Thought this shit was Zen 2. Or Am I trippin. Its late
AMD says its PS5 and Xbox Series X chips, Zen 3 CPUs, and RDNA 2 GPUs will ship on time
AMD is plowing ahead with 7nm CPUs
www.theverge.com
alabtrosMyster
Member
How will you react when you see the next openworld third party crossgen games (Assassin's creed, etc).
Apollo Helios
Member
Yeah considering the date it's impressive I'll give them that. Cell must have really been strong in vector operations to even manage 1/3 of 2880p ray tracing and de-noise. Man I wish they could just put a complete 7nm version of it inside PS5 SoC and not just specialized a Compute Unite into a SPU, but even that must be strong if half is enough for 3D audio. And I'm sure you have seen my speculation that the other half of it's power may be used for offloading some of RT work from the GPU. Ofc there is still RT units inside GPU that does the other half of the RT equation with hardware acceleration. It was the narrative that PS5 may be lacking in RT because of having less number of CUs, but this part that require parallelization can be offloaded into the great parallel accelerator that is the SPU in Cell. The rest of RT needs high frequency for intersection checks and de-noise, and for those parts PS5 GPU runs at an impressive 2.23GHz. So overall if Tempest is indeed is used for RT, then PS5 has stronger RT solution.
yewles1
Member
The other demonstration was done by an IBM guy that helped work on CELL. Of course that would perform better. I talked to Barry Minor years ago about possibly getting CUDA to work on PS3 and he said "yeah." Crazy stuff back in the day.
Rea
Member
Downgraded like fuck. This is Ubisoft watchdog1 level Downgraded.
I'm sick of Microsoft 's lies.
Metroiddarks
Member
Someone get a spec bump. Thought this shit was Zen 2. Or Am I trippin. Its late
AMD says its PS5 and Xbox Series X chips, Zen 3 CPUs, and RDNA 2 GPUs will ship on time
AMD is plowing ahead with 7nm CPUs
Is Zen2, calm down XD
T
Three Jackdaws
Unconfirmed Member
Interesting
bitbydeath
Member
Someone get a spec bump. Thought this shit was Zen 2. Or Am I trippin. Its late
AMD says its PS5 and Xbox Series X chips, Zen 3 CPUs, and RDNA 2 GPUs will ship on time
AMD is plowing ahead with 7nm CPUs
I think those are just poorly worded seperate announcements.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
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Apollo Helios
Member
Guys bad news for SlipSpace engine, turns out it is based on their old one (I guess Blam!) and rewritten in part, giving credence to the whole Reddit leaks about 343.
Timestamped video to one of their social streams dated December 2018
Timestamped video to one of their social streams dated December 2018
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Man, this sounds crazy! Amazing speculations and analysis, makes lots of sense although it a step beyond my knowledge, which I love it! If it succeeds, and there is actually a PS5 Pro, then we might see a beefed version of it!
Neo Blaster
Member
Yep, I've already read all those quotes in the Reddit post, they seem be to be from some kind of LinkedIn-like site.
Metroiddarks
Member
Now MLiD have my attention, I just expect NXG controlled the MLiDs impulses to extrapolate everything
Are from Glassdoor, I used that page before just to check if the company who want to have an interview is decent.
I readed it and looks like they are agree with
NXGamer
, slipspace engine is just the old engine with patch above another patch (this happens most of the times).Basically they say:
-Is great place to work and have in your CV because you know Halo
-But the directive are too ambitious for what its tool can do
Sounds close to the reality
Btw guys someone in Beyond3d found popping in the shadows, just looks the control panel in the left of the image.
Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2020]
The controversy and debates/chaoses this Halo Infinite trailer created could be some way to gain PR and attention? :P
forum.beyond3d.com
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