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[Darklor01]

No comment just decide for yourself. Let the game videos speak. In fact you're welcome to mute the Brit LOL Though I have to point out that his explanation is bang on the money.

Thanks!

OK, so.. my take (video was on mute ) .. Optimizations were done in the end. Some things were enhanced, and some were taken down some. In some scense, the E3 had more vegetation. The E3 side was definitely sharper and more clear visually. So, I guess.. in the end, my pure guess would be.. that's an optimization thing. Since that happens to every game, ... I'd assume the same thing could happen to HFW, but the end result shouldn't be worlds different. I'm good with that. We shall obviously see when it releases though.

 

[sircaw]

Hmmm. This is Horizon, so it'll probably be called a TeethFin... or a CrunchWater.

Or a Sircaw, perfect name for a top predator

 

[sircaw]

I hope they go with sircaw

you beat me to it but for different reasons lol DAMMIT

 

[Shmunter]

No comment just decide for yourself. Let the game videos speak. In fact you're welcome to mute the Brit LOL Though I have to point out that his explanation is bang on the money.

Yeah, he's done a good job of alleviating my concerns on this one. I'm yet to put the disc in, but I have not been impressed by the perceived downgrade from recent videos I've watched. Despite the lighting being a big factor and brings the trailer look when right time of day, there are still downgrades in the trees and foliage so critique due where it's due.

Hopefully on PS5 that shits back and at 60.

 

[DrDamn]

My only grievance with him is his attitude. He certainly has knowledge that I could learn from in general. Lots of it.

Agree. It's the attitude and how opinion and even facts are put across to other people. Seems to enjoy pissing on chips purely for the I'm righteous-ness of it, and lack of humility or admission when they are wrong.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

you beat me to it but for different reasons lol DAMMIT

I can't wait to take you down slut

 

[SlimySnake]

I do love GoT. I'm not sure it looks as good as that E3 presentation, so I'm not sure whether what was shown was in game or in engine.

both tlou2 and GoT got downgraded. TLOU2 with enemy faces and perfect animations, while GoT with tree quality. Both games still look better than 99.9% of games out there.

Hopefully we will get the original versions on the PS5.

 

[sircaw]

I can't wait to take you down slut

Bring it Chum bucket

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Bring it Chum bucket

At least I don't got the krabs

 

[sircaw]

At least I don't got the krabs

Its worse, you got the Craigs.

 

[JonnyMP3]

both tlou2 and GoT got downgraded. TLOU2 with enemy faces and perfect animations, while GoT with tree quality. Both games still look better than 99.9% of games out there.

Hopefully we will get the original versions on the PS5.

Yeah, there's definitely polygon density missing compared to the trailer.

 

[hemo memo]

This is nonsense. You have been shown the difference between cross gen games and sony's ps5 games several times across several different threads, and yet in the face of overwhelming evidence you continue to deny reality like a 9/11 truther.

And no, this isnt about Halo Infinite. I had used the Halo clips from their bullshit inengine demo that was downgraded to oblivion to make prior comparison. You can look at watch dogs or AC odyssey or destiny 2 immediately see the difference. But Horizon 2 literally looks a gen ahead of their target render.

Cross gen foliage.

Next gen Foliage:

Cross gen wild life:

Next Gen Wild life:

Cross gen Character models:

Next gen character models:

And again, thats from a target render that even the XSX version couldnt come close to.

Your cross gen talk is nonsense.

And we didn't see Naughty Dog next gen game yet. Just imagine that. Also Quantic Dream still around? What are they working on?

 

[Darklor01]

both tlou2 and GoT got downgraded. TLOU2 with enemy faces and perfect animations, while GoT with tree quality. Both games still look better than 99.9% of games out there.

Hopefully we will get the original versions on the PS5.

I'll guess that unless Sucker Punch want to release patches to upgrade the visuals/fidelity, unless a re-master version is done, I think it'll remain much the same. The loading is already pretty damn fast in pretty much every aspect. For a game looking and playing like this one does off a 5200 RPM mechanical HDD, .. it is pretty damn nuts. I can't see instant loading being all that much of an improvement over what they're already done.

 

[JonnyMP3]

Bring it Chum bucket

At least I don't got the krabs

You 2...schtap!

 

[SlimySnake]

Also Quantic Dream still around? What are they working on?

Chinese propaganda.

 

[sircaw]

You 2...schtap!

Never had crabs before but if I did, I would want those type.

 

[Apollo Helios]

And we didn't see Naughty Dog next gen game yet. Just imagine that. Also Quantic Dream still around? What are they working on?

On the Quantic Dream front I know that it is quite hush hush. They might be working on something but bc of some in-house problems nothing is leaking.

 

[Vae_Victis]

Also Quantic Dream still around? What are they working on?

They broke up with Sony, they released all their catalogue on PC about a year ago (all stuff that was exclusive to PS3/4 before) and they said they intended to go multiplatform for the future.

They will still publish on PS5 of course, but not as a second party (so probably no early devkits, additional support from Sony etc.).

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Its worse, you got the Craigs.

Not from what I saw last night

 

[sircaw]

Not from what I saw last night

Way too much rump to thump.

 

[Darklor01]

You 2...schtap!

 

[VFXVeteran]

My only grievance with him is his attitude. He certainly has knowledge that I could learn from in general. Lots of it. The issue I take is that he purports perception as fact. None of us actually know what the devs of the game know. What the hardware on either side is truly capable of ..etc. That all said, his commentary starting to throw names, and say who will leave with him...etc. That sounds like him threatening the community.

My statement about not losing sleep if he left, .. I speak for me. I can't have a proper conversation and debate with even an agreement to disagree with someone who can't do the same. When he started threatening to take people with him if he left.. well, that's my reaction. Wrong or right, it's my reaction.

I think you haven't read the whole story. Go back to page 2583 and see how I come in and give good discussion and then read how it turned into insults and past rhetoric.

I'm not the problem here. If I was, I would have been asked to leave by the mods a long time ago. My insights on graphics rendering and how games trick people's eyes into seeing what they want to see may not play well with a lot of the Sony guys here (as they never have been), but I'm a realist and I talk to people in the gaming industry all the time - folks that I worked with in film - that will not disclose their techniques before getting permission to. I wouldn't make such arguments if what I said didn't have a shred of truth to them. Yet, I'm constantly posting my resume, providing links to my creditals, asked to solve petty graphics problems, etc.. if you guys don't think the mods get a laugh out of all of that, you are really fooling yourselves.

You should come at me with the intent to learn something. Never once has anyone asked me why I think that HZD1 on PC might rival HZD2 on PS5 (let's forget about HZD2 coming to PC for a moment). No one even bothered to care. They just put up their fighting stance ready to pounce.

 

[Insane Metal]

Guys you need a room

 

[AeneaGames]

Microsoft Flight Simulator shits on anything shown thus far. If we're going to tout next gen, we should be showing Microsoft Flight Simulator, which will eventually be on XSX (the most powerful next gen console)

But that was the PC version. Why are you assuming that on XSX it will look that good as well? It could be, but you do not know for sure.

So let's wait until MS finally shows us something running on the XSX, you almost start to think it doesn't even exist!

 

[Wraith Phantom]

A bit of good news for Xbox fans

Im a bit sceptical about all that. I find it hard to believe that PC begging race guys hype up these 120frames,4K rigs to go & play horse shit games like grounded & sea of thieves.

Something is off here. Does xbox live boost these numbers player counts & what not in steam?? You cant be talking up all that power when your playing low quality games. IF this is going on PC gaming is sad state if this is topping charts. You cannot talk about quality games. When you picking up trash like these games.

 

[SportsFan581]

Cross gen foliage.

I wish halo actually had those mountains and that draw distance. Some major sacrifices must have been made to support greater player/npc counts or something. If Halo looked like that shot, I wouldn't think much about it (still cross-gen but not bad looking).

 

[SlimySnake]

I'll guess that unless Sucker Punch want to release patches to upgrade the visuals/fidelity, unless a re-master version is done, I think it'll remain much the same. The loading is already pretty damn fast in pretty much every aspect. For a game looking and playing like this one does off a 5200 RPM mechanical HDD, .. it is pretty damn nuts. I can't see instant loading being all that much of an improvement over what they're already done.

their fast travel loading is insane.

 

[BlueXImpulse]

This is nonsense. You have been shown the difference between cross gen games and sony's ps5 games several times across several different threads, and yet in the face of overwhelming evidence you continue to deny reality like a 9/11 truther.

And no, this isnt about Halo Infinite. I had used the Halo clips from their bullshit inengine demo that was downgraded to oblivion to make prior comparison. You can look at watch dogs or AC odyssey or destiny 2 immediately see the difference. But Horizon 2 literally looks a gen ahead of their target render.

Cross gen foliage.

Next gen Foliage:

Cross gen wild life:

Next Gen Wild life:

Cross gen Character models:

Next gen character models:

And again, thats from a target render that even the XSX version couldnt come close to.

Your cross gen talk is nonsense.

This is the part that a lot of people are struggling with. HZD2 actually looks better than the Halo in-engine trailer which Xbox fans said was next-gen (and Digital Foundry).

 

[Bryank75]

Agree, I think Xbox and PS are close in the UK, the rest of europe not so much

Yeah, Ireland would have been similar.... I would have guessed 40:60 split in favor of PS over the past generation in the british isles.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

You should come at me with the intent to learn something. Never once has anyone asked me why I think that HZD1 on PC might rival HZD2 on PS5 (let's forget about HZD2 coming to PC for a moment). No one even bothered to care. They just put up their fighting stance ready to pounce.

You were given plenty of opportunities to explain back when you made those ridiculous claims in the first place, but you didn't.

 

[Nickolaidas]

I mean, the guy can't get a word in with out being constantly bombarded by a group of certain fans insulting him or antagonizing him if he says anything remotely negative against a group's preferred platform, no matter how truthful or coherent it is. It's hard to have a civil discussion otherwise.

It's similar to what this same audience does to Alex, Richard Ledbetter, or even John. It's not PC/Xbox/Switch fans attacking these people.

The guy comes in to a CONSOLE speculation thread with the sole purpose of telling us 500$ consoles don't blow a candle to 4000$ PCs and expect us to be mindblown and willing to suck his dick as if he's fucking Prometheus who stole the fire to share it with us lowly mortals, praise his tech skillz and has the expectation that everyone here must treat his opinion as fact because of his resume, while us lowly peasants must stop playing with our coconuts and beg him to share his wisdom.

He also moves the goalposts faster than Goku teleports from Earth to Namek when Horizon's Forbidden West's cutscenes shouldn't be a metric to compare next-gen, yet Hellblade 2's somehow are.

It's his smug arrogance and PC jerking which rubs a lot of people here the wrong way.

I agree that there is dogpiling here, but when your opinion is BOTH a minority one AND one presented as fact, you reap what you saw.

X-Fighter is one of the more level-headed X-Box fans which is why he doesn't get nearly the same flak you and VFX are getting.

BTW, still waiting on an answer from you. If you think H Zero Dawn's gameplay visuals are very impressive based on those GIFs you saw, why can't you believe that the PS5, a much more powerful console, is able to have gameplay visuals for Horizon 2 which are just as nice as the 2nd game's cutscenes?

 

[VFXVeteran]

While i don't support a lot of the dogpiling effect that happens sometimes, other times it is so deserved. Like claiming you know someone at Naughtydog who told you the specs of PS5 but when you turn out wrong, you shift the goalpost and claim you were right. Like saying you are of a higher caliber as a film vfx artist than a game developer even though a lot of game developers come from film background and game developers use the same tools as vfx artist, the irony of it. If you've managed to get yourself banned or ran out of every games forum you engage in, at some point you have to start having some introspection.

There is no claiming. I *do* know someone at ND. Do you really think the mods are idiots and gave me the title for shits and giggles? I'm not going to give names but what he told me was spot on about the PS5 abilities. It was a huge disappointment to the fans on here that speculated some top-tier GPU with enormous power levels all at the cost of $500. If you go back to pre-PS4 days, they did the exact same thing then and piled on me at that time. All of those trailers: Deep Down, UE4, Quantum Dreams, UC4 trailer, etc..

It doesn't take rocket science to know your system isn't going to be more powerful than a GPU that costs over $1k. There are limits which you guys just fail to acknowledge in hardware. Yibing even tried to tell people that in her presentation for UC4.

 

[xHunter]

Im a bit sceptical about all that. I find it hard to believe that PC begging race guys hype up these 120frames,4K rigs to go & play horse shit games like grounded & sea of thieves.

Something is off here. Does xbox live boost these numbers player counts & what not in steam?? You cant be talking up all that power when your playing low quality games. IF this is going on PC gaming is sad state if this is topping charts. You cannot talk about quality games. When you picking up trash like these games.

Pretty much any AAA game is in the top list when they release/ about a week before. As far as i know these charts are more like a "Hot right now" chart. See Fall Guys be number 1 next week.

 

[VFXVeteran]

You were given plenty of opportunities to explain back when you made those ridiculous claims in the first place, but you didn't.

I did but you brushed them off because you didn't understand them. That's not my fault. Ask for more in-depth explanation and be prepared to understand 3d graphics principles and the current hardware. It's not hard at all. A lot of you guys will compare these in-game cutscenes to actual CGI and it makes me laugh. Yet, you claim I'm being arrogant because I laugh. I'm laughing because I worked knee deep into this stuff and actually know the "cost" of things. But of course, I get ridiculed instead.

 

[Nickolaidas]

There are limits which you guys just fail to acknowledge in hardware.

"That's how dumb you guys are."

 

[VFXVeteran]

The way this could go is only one way; even if HZ1 pc was to be a remaster job, with the latest engine, effects ultra everything. Sony would not allow their own game on another platform compete with themselves during a new gen launch - so that would not happen. They need PS5 to look as mighty as possible and unless they've completely forgotten the value of platform exclusives, which is pretty unlikely.

So now you admit that they could downgrade the game on purpose just so that PS5 would shine over the PC. But what happens when the game gets released on the PC and DF exposes the shortcuts made on the PS5 version of the game compared to the PC version?

 

[DrDamn]

You should come at me with the intent to learn something. Never once has anyone asked me why I think that HZD1 on PC might rival HZD2 on PS5 (let's forget about HZD2 coming to PC for a moment). No one even bothered to care. They just put up their fighting stance ready to pounce.

So you post an opinion that you know will rile people up, and expect them to enquire what you can teach them? This, this right here is the attitude that pisses people off. You don't see it because all you see is that you are right. Instead of putting the opinion across and explaining why you think that, you want the satisfaction of having people disagree with you so you can tell them why they are wrong. Then when the thread turns to shit it's all their fault for not asking why?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I did but you brushed them off because you didn't understand them. That's not my fault. Ask for more in-depth explanation and be prepared to understand 3d graphics principles and the current hardware. It's not hard at all. A lot of you guys will compare these in-game cutscenes to actual CGI and it makes me laugh. Yet, you claim I'm being arrogant because I laugh. I'm laughing because I worked knee deep into this stuff and actually know the "cost" of things. But of course, I get ridiculed instead.

Why didn't you provide Osiris with your in-depth explanation? When he challenged you with your nonsense all you could respond with was baseless conjecture. When others did, all you could do was respond with the laughing emoji. They weren't attacking you either. You make ridiculous one line claims and don't follow through with what we would expect from a veteran in your field, and you're shocked you get dogged on for it

 

[Nickolaidas]

Never once has anyone asked me why I think that HZD1 on PC might rival HZD2 on PS5 (let's forget about HZD2 coming to PC for a moment).

 

[yewles1]

Yes... but, Sony owned the rights. It was Disney that had to make a deal Sony was willing to agree to. Some of these deals have strange issues. Like.. The Incredible Hulk cannot appear in a standalone MCU movie. The previous Hulk Movies are Sony Pictures.

Hulk films are Universal.

 

[Darklor01]

I think you haven't read the whole story. Go back to page 2583 and see how I come in and give good discussion and then read how it turned into insults and past rhetoric.

I'm not the problem here. If I was, I would have been asked to leave by the mods a long time ago. My insights on graphics rendering and how games trick people's eyes into seeing what they want to see may not play well with a lot of the Sony guys here (as they never have been), but I'm a realist and I talk to people in the gaming industry all the time - folks that I worked with in film - that will not disclose their techniques before getting permission to. I wouldn't make such arguments if what I said didn't have a shred of truth to them. Yet, I'm constantly posting my resume, providing links to my creditals, asked to solve petty graphics problems, etc.. if you guys don't think the mods get a laugh out of all of that, you are really fooling yourselves.

You should come at me with the intent to learn something. Never once has anyone asked me why I think that HZD1 on PC might rival HZD2 on PS5 (let's forget about HZD2 coming to PC for a moment). No one even bothered to care. They just put up their fighting stance ready to pounce.

I was keeping up with the entire conversation the whole time through, and read it again now for clarity. Point in fact, I tried to have a more common shared knowledge, non-technical level discussion with you. It didn't go very far. In the end, you decided to say you as a film VFX expert know more than Video Game industry professionals. How did you think that would play out?

Below are my viewpoints of the many pages of discussion:

• You were having a proper discussion and at points, were attacked.
• Your views sound more fact based than opinion. I might suggest, if you give a statement about what you're seeing and why, you provide some technical background example of what you're seeing to help the people understand. Help those who would attack your view to understand why you believe it to be so. Please keep in mind, though you have knowledge in many vfx related industries and have held positions, others in the gaming industry state differently than you. I would not want to discredit you and I would not want to discredit them. As you aren't developing the games being discussed and don't have the hardware, you wouldn't know what's going on in a game other than recognizing what VFX and tech are being used to achieve something on levels you have knowledge of. Just.. visual cues.
• Your biases are very visible. It may be a good suggestion to be a bit more even in your viewpoints. They are just as valid as those of anyone else, .. until they aren't, and the same goes for them.
• Comparing apples and oranges game types with completely different parameters just doesn't make sense. The same goes for anyone else when I read it. I wouldn't compare a fighting game's visuals with those of a racing game...etc.
• Throwing out who know know does not lend credibility to anything you're saying. Throwing out what you know and how you know it with back up does.

If you want to be thought of as a proper source of knowledge, demonstrate it.

 

[Metroiddarks]

Halo Community Update - Infinite Inquiries

In the past two weeks we've unveiled Halo Infinite, launched Halo 3 on PC as part of Halo: The Master Chief Collection, helped raise money for a good cause, released tons of Halo gear, and so much more. Since this is a pretty hefty Community Update, let's jump right in!

www.halowaypoint.com

So the visual style they've gone for is 'classic', which explains the lack of detail with the gun and plain textures for the buildings, etc.

They also admit they have work to do, to address the other (flat, plastic, dull) concerns, is refreshingly honest.

I just read it and I think this:

-They insist they preserve that artistic style which obvious that cannot be change in a couple of months and also is sad they couldn't find its style
-The say they heard more positive than negative things in the graphics department ..... what they talking about ?
-The build was created a couple of weeks ago, things which is also obvious, not months like some desperate people here try to push
-They will justified its simple models because they are going to told us are inspired in the first Halo.... man just not
-They heard a member of DF with less experience of any in 343 and they think Alex open is eyes .... they have less of 3 months to have a gold version

Conclusion for the graphics department:

They need us to have stockholm syndrome for us to say those graphics look like next gen

 

[Darklor01]

Hulk films are Universal.

I stand corrected. Thank you

 

[Red_Driver85]

Never once has anyone asked me why I think that HZD1 on PC might rival HZD2 on PS5 (let's forget about HZD2 coming to PC for a moment).

You're so fucked up with your fucking PC. When will you shut up? In whatever topic you appear, everywhere you jerk off on your fucking PC. The game will be released after 2-3 years, hypothetically, on your adored PC, and for fuck's sake at all. What do you want to prove and to whom? Frankly, I'm tired of all these insiders and morons praying on the PC port. You, as an industry veteran, should be above this, but you are a beaten-down PC fanatic who talks nonsense from time to time. You always assert with your "on the PC-the best version" that the PC as a platform is preferred by some feeble-minded cretins.

 

[VFXVeteran]

So you post an opinion that you know will rile people up, and expect them to enquire what you can teach them? This, this right here is the attitude that pisses people off. You don't see it because all you see is that you are right. Instead of putting the opinion across and explaining why you think that, you want the satisfaction of having people disagree with you so you can tell them why they are wrong. Then when the thread turns to shit it's all their fault for not asking why?

Not at all. I usually tell why I say things. But if you don't understand what I say, then ASK more questions!!!! It's that simple. Don't attack me because you don't believe what I'm saying. Try to look at things from my perspective. I would be more than happy to go into technical details. But I absolutely can't give a good discussion if others starting throwing darts at me.

 

[Angel of BOOM!]

So now you admit that they could downgrade the game on purpose just so that PS5 would shine over the PC. But what happens when the game gets released on the PC and DF exposes the shortcuts made on the PS5 version of the game compared to the PC version?

While they could, I doubt Sony would do this. Rather they will (quite rightly) be focusing on HZD2 (in fact the PC port of the original may well have been to help with getting their engine up to speed for PS5). Horizon 1 on PC is likely used for two things:

1) Extra revenue
2) A gateway for people who do not own a Playstation to buy into the PS5 and get the sequel.

I'd be very surprised if HZD2 appears on anything other than PS5 for a good few years (or until the 3rd game in the series is due for release on a PS platform) as strategically the Playstation brand and their walled garden is very important to Sony.

 

[JonTheGod]

Ticket for me please!

 

[IntentionalPun]

This is the part that a lot of people are struggling with. HZD2 actually looks better than the Halo in-engine trailer which Xbox fans said was next-gen (and Digital Foundry).

HZD2 is also an in-engine trailer though...

But Sony games looking better than everyone else on the market is absolutely nothing new lol

 

[Shmunter]

So now you admit that they could downgrade the game on purpose just so that PS5 would shine over the PC. But what happens when the game gets released on the PC and DF exposes the shortcuts made on the PS5 version of the game compared to the PC version?

Not downgrade, it will just stay as is; which will be the PS4 game running on pc with whatever framerate & rez your hardware will support with enhancements limited to things like filtering and LOD increases. A super refined PS4 game, nothing more, certainly not a HZ2.

You also think everyone has a fantastic pc? Not the case, the range is real.

 

[TGO]

Hope I haven't missed anyone

Spoiler

fun fact
There is actually 4 people including Craig in the night sky, can you see the mysterious 4 person?