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[Investor9872]

They already have PlayStation Now, although it doesn't have a mobile app yet (I think it used to that was just for Xperia phones, but not anymore).
They also already have Remote Play, which I would assume will be continued with the PS5.

I know, and have been using Remote Play. The lag can prevent you from playing certain genre of games, and I'm hoping with the PS5 Sony will improve upon this for the end user's experience.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Remember MS and 7th gen? It's Sony's turn now...

One thing I know is that Jim Rayan is very aggressive in his business. He already said he wants to sell PS5 on a scale never seen before.
This guy is not playing around.

 

[TGO]

Ticket please!
(I did ask earlier )

I did put you on, you're been riding in a different thread!

 

[Imtjnotu]

I did put you on, you're been riding in a different thread!

This train been at the station too damn long sony

 

[jonnyp]

Nah, Studio Liverpool, an iconic legacy that is still sorely missed today.

Yeah them too

 

[WelshBluebird]

I know, and have been using Remote Play. The lag can prevent you from playing certain genre of games, and I'm hoping with the PS5 Sony will improve upon this for the end user's experience.

In my experience it really heavily depends on your internet connection and WiFi.

I found that once I had hooked my PS4 up via ethernet to my network, then the lag hugely improved. I still get some lag from time to time, but mostly just in areas of my flat where the WiFi is weaker.

I've also noticed a huge improvement in streaming PS3 games via PlayStation Now on my PS4 using ethernet compared to what is was like on my PS4 via WiFi on my laptop (which also uses WiFi).

Not been able to compare the above with Microsoft's offerings as I don't own an Xbox One (so can't try the local streaming) and don't have a compatible controller (so couldn't try the Xcloud beta), but I can't imagine they will be able to do much about people's dodgy WiFi either to be honest!

 

[3liteDragon]

If the slight specs upgrade is due to unexpectedly good yields (a couple more CUs enabled), the XSX will get it too.

Technically correct, but maybe MS never considered it and always disabled 4 CUs because the specs were decided, while Sony might have taken a different approach.

But I somehow don't believe that, and more CUs with the same RAM would only mean less bandwidth per CU.

If there's a new hardware revision for the PS5, I hope it's the memory chips that got the upgrade instead of the CUs. Increasing the RAM bandwidth to 512GB/s while keeping the bus width at 256-bit has a bigger impact on the overall system compared to adding 2 more CUs, instead, the existing 36 CUs get more bandwidth as a result.

 

[Investor9872]

In my experience it really heavily depends on your internet connection and WiFi.

I found that once I had hooked my PS4 up via ethernet to my network, then the lag hugely improved. I still get some lag from time to time, but mostly just in areas of my flat where the WiFi is weaker.

I've also noticed a huge improvement in streaming PS3 games via PlayStation Now on my PS4 using ethernet compared to what is was like on my PS4 via WiFi on my laptop (which also uses WiFi).

Not been able to compare the above with Microsoft's offerings as I don't own an Xbox One (so can't try the local streaming) and don't have a compatible controller (so couldn't try the Xcloud beta), but I can't imagine they will be able to do much about people's dodgy WiFi either to be honest!

Agreed. I wouldn't even dream about Remote Play without a hardline connection. I have a 500 Mbps connection streaming from the PS4 Pro to my OLED Vita, and it works great for rpg games from Squaresoft/SquareEnix. I hope to see Sony make some sort of advancement in this technology going forward with the PS5. Hopefully, more will be revealed when a full teardown event for the PS5 is scheduled (at the end of this month or next at the latest is my guess).

 

[Red_Driver85]

 

[Killer Sakoman]

I think if anything, it's more likely that the PS5 gets a bump to higher speed memory. I think that would offer more benefit than 2 more CU's enabled or something like that. Either way though, a bump to specs is a good thing. At this stage there's no radical changes that will take place but again the RAM speed being upped would probably bring the most in the way of performance gains. We shall see...

Maybe just maximizing power as the sillicon can manage little extra jeat. Thus, decreasing the chance of downclock

 

[Nowcry]

If there's a new hardware revision for the PS5, I hope it's the memory chips that got the upgrade instead of the CUs. Increasing the RAM bandwidth to 512GB/s while keeping the bus width at 256-bit has a bigger impact on the overall system compared to adding 2 more CUs, instead, the existing 36 CUs get more bandwidth as a result.

I don't think there can be an increase in CU number without an increase in GDDR from 14gbps to 16gbps to get 512GB / s. Since there would be more CU to feed.

If there is CU increase there will be GDDR increases in your speed. The first change that must be made is an increase from 14 gbps to 16 gbps and then the rest they can do without a price increase.

 

[Red_Driver85]

 

[FeiRR]

I know, and have been using Remote Play. The lag can prevent you from playing certain genre of games, and I'm hoping with the PS5 Sony will improve upon this for the end user's experience.

I don't see how PS5 could improve Internet infrastructure or bend laws of physics to reduce your lag. If PSN uses Azure, both companies will have similar latency in remote gaming.

 

[hemo memo]

I still remember RotTR exclusive rage. Indeed exclusives are only bad when they're on a system they don't own.

 

[saintjules]

I did put you on, you're been riding in a different thread!

Am I there? lol if not, 1 ticket request again please

 

[Neo Blaster]

Serious question, do you guys think that we can expect the new wipeout on ps5 for launch?

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Yeah this is another thing, just because the GPU on the Series X is more powerful, people seem to automatically think the PS5 GPU must be weak or something, which is absurd, I mean come on, 36 RDNA 2 CU's clocking up to 2.23 Ghz is really powerful.

I think Microsoft made it a priority to ensure there GPU would be more powerful than what would be featured on the PS5, this was pointed out by some leaks and even Phill Spencer made a comment along the lines of "we don't want be beaten on power or price again". Sony however, didn't even bother to look at what Microsoft are doing, it seems they already had a clear idea of were they wanted to go with the PS5 hardware. Both companies were guided by drastically different "principles" in designing their hardware, if you watch some of Mark Cerny's presentations, he even talks about this.

It's not really more powerful. The problem is that people are focusing on the compute and forgetting that the GPU has many other components. PS5 GPU is better at at the other components such as rasterization and local cache speed and bandwidth. The two GPUs end up with the same performance. 3rd party games should play on both consoles withb same settings, resolutions and fps ( expect few frame drops here and there depending on which component is being stressed and which GPU has advantage in that regard).

 

[Vaztu]

This train been at the station too damn long sony

Didn't you hear the PA announce? Train's gonna depart soon!

 

[Dave_at_Home]

I did put you on, you're been riding in a different thread!

How much does it cost to board?

 

[Darius87]

I don't think there can be an increase in CU number without an increase in GDDR from 14gbps to 16gbps to get 512GB / s. Since there would be more CU to feed.

If there is CU increase there will be GDDR increases in your speed. The first change that must be made is an increase from 14 gbps to 16 gbps and then the rest they can do without a price increase.

i think it's possible to increase to 38CU if yields are very good but shader arrays would be different in sizes don't know if that's problem or not.
i don't think bandwidth is actually the problem for PS5 because it haves cache scrubbers so numbers doesn't reflect real performance, this might be the reason why Sony opted 14gbps ram modules in first place.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

It's not really more powerful. The problem is that people are focusing on the compute and forgetting that the GPU has many other components. PS5 GPU is better at at the other components such as rasterization and local cache speed and bandwidth. The two GPUs end up with the same performance. 3rd party games should play on both consoles withb same settings, resolutions and fps ( expect few frame drops here and there depending on which component is being stressed and which GPU has advantage in that regard).

16 more compute units does have it's advantages, though. At the end of the day, they're basically going to be identical. Little bit more dynamic resolution with Sony, and maybe slightly fancier effects on Series X, but ultimately nothing anyone is going to notice until Digital Foundry zooms in. What I really want to know is if Sony has an improved version of checkerboard rendering on PS5.

 

[TGO]

Anyone think Lara will actually look like this next gen?

 

[icerock]

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Oh Jim....

Spoiler

 

[BlueXImpulse]

Oh Jim....

Spoiler

[/QUOTE]

Dig the knife in and twist it.

 

[SteveLorde]

Anyone think Lara will actually look like this next gen?

OMG, a sexy woman with BOOBS?! Sony execs would rather cut their own dicks.

 

[NickFire]

Anyone think Lara will actually look like this next gen?

Can we really expect that level of realism next gen????? I hope so.

And if we can that would be a perfect representation that hopefully makes everyone happy.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

Sony understands consoles and knows that it never was about Teraflops and screaming you are the most powerful.

It's all about making a machine that won't bankrupt you, is easy to produce, has a reasonable price, is easy for developers and that will get you the results you need.

Agreed. Sony learned their lesson the hard way with the PS3. The esoteric nature of the Cell, and I suppose the split memory too, was something they definitely corrected for on PS4.

 

[DeepSpace5D]

Oh Jim....

Spoiler

He is more cutthroat than I gave him credit for, I must say. They are really going hard on this Avengers game.

 

[JonnyMP3]

Anyone think Lara will actually look like this next gen?

Only if they come with 'FME' still

 

[JonnyMP3]

OMG, a sexy woman with BOOBS?! Sony execs would rather cut their own dicks.

Tifa says "Hi"

 

[JonnyMP3]

Oh Jim....

Spoiler

I said he was a sadist

 

[Dave_at_Home]

I think you're putting a bit too much stock into the benefits an additional 20-30% TF will bring to final image quality. It won't suddenly allow things to be possible that couldn't be done with 10-12 TF machines. In GPU limited scenarios it would mean a bit more breathing room for developers which could translate into more fps headroom, slightly higher native resolutions, or setting certain effects another notch higher. This is besides the fact that we still don't have a clear picture of how these machines will perform against PCs in multiplats and what AI upsampling will bring.

I would wager if you took a theoretical 14 TF PS5 that used its extra power to push more pixel resolution vs a 10.3TF Ps5 that used AI upsampling you may not even notice the difference.

I'm also not quite sure why you think the PS4 was a bigger leap than PS5 will be. The reason PS4 seemed to push more over its competitor was simple. They focused their efforts on creating a gaming centric device and the competition didn't. It still launched with a relatively weak CPU and a mid to high end GPU. PS5 is an evolution of this design only this time AMD has much better CPUs available. The addition of the custom I/O and SSD will bring much more to the table than a few extra TF when it comes to IQ and game design itself.

Look I get it, I would have loved to be surprised with higher numbers myself but you have to accept the reality that these are mass adoption devices and they simply can't cost as much as a top 1% PC. Also, don't let the numbers fool you. The architecture is much more important and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised what both machines will be able to accomplish.

If Microsoft hadn't put such a focus on being the "all-in-one entertainment box", I bet the Xbox One would have been just as powerful as PS4. They obviously corrected with the One X, though. Being the most powerful has always been Xbox's modus operandi, so for anyone that's been gaming long enough to play on the OG Xbox; no surprise they come out with the most overall powerful system. I really don't know what people expect with PS5 versus Series X third party games cause it ain't gonna be much. Seems like some people expect PS2 versus Xbox levels of difference.

 

[xPikYx]

Anyone think Lara will actually look like this next gen?

Probably the 3d model but not the hair and their simulation

 

[Killer Sakoman]

He is more cutthroat than I gave him credit for, I must say. They are really going hard on this Avengers game.

He is as aggressive as Peter Moore when he was the head of xbox. That guy kicked Sony's ass. Don and Phil then came and fucked up xbox.

On a side note: Jim Sterling is bitching about Spider-Man exclusivity on his youtube channel. I refuse to link his video though as I don't like to give him views.

 

[GAF machine]

Apart from Matt's comment from Twitter, that what GE is much more broader and powerful than just having VRS, it is somewhat a mystery to anybody at this point.

I'm inclined to think that the GE is hardware designed to let devs move parts (if not all) of the geometry processing pipeline off Oberon's CUs, so devs can have greater flexibility in how they use GPU resources. Similar to how SPUs were used to shift parts (if not all) of the geometry processing pipeline off the RSX...

 

[FunkMiller]

Anyone think Lara will actually look like this next gen?

Is this a CG render, or a real person? I literally can't tell because of my old, old eyes.

Either way, if Lara looks like this next time around it'll sell bazillions.

 

[GAF machine]

Now PS4 didn't have Cell's SPUs but it had large number of ACEs (8 of them vs 2 for PCs and Xbox) that could help them make CUs work in parallel so much better that GPU CUs could be utilized more in parallel (not close to 100% utilization of SPUs ever, maybe half at most). That HW secret sauce was coming from the collective minds at Sony headed by Cerny. You didn't have to utilize ACEs (or maybe utilize some and not all) but when you do work them all we get TLOU 2 and GoT at the end of generation.

Not really. Quiet as its kept, PS4's "secret sauce" is a slight twist on the concoction Ken Kutaragi and his team of chefs whipped up for PS3 which had 18 asynchronous engines as its base ingredient...

Cerny liked what they did for SPU compute so much, that he sought to have the hardware teams from SIE and AMD design a version of them for PS4's GPU which later ended up on AMD's GPU roadmap as 'ACE'...

"We can have custom features and they can eventually end up on the [AMD] roadmap," Cerny says proudly. "So the ACEs... I was very passionate about asynchronous compute, so we did a lot of work there for the original PlayStation 4 and that ended up getting incorporated into subsequent AMD GPUs, which is nice because the PC development community gets very familiar with those techniques. It can help us when the parts of GPUs that we are passionate about are used in the PC space." -- Mark Cerny

Even though AMD GPUs and competing consoles have ACE and share the same asynchronous compute model (submit in parallel, execute in parallel) with PS consoles,...

they lack a hardware implementation of the SPU task manager (entry [0072] of this patent says that STM reduces the overhead associated with context switching in a SPU task system; entry [0070) says although it's software it can also be implemented in hardware) which makes performing asynchronous compute alongside graphics processing more efficient than on platforms without such an implementation because it causes the GPU to mimic the behavior of PS3's SPURS. Cerny discussed this in some detail..

"We're trying to replicate the SPU Runtime System (SPURS) of the PS3 by heavily customizing the cache and bus," -- Mark Cerny

"First, we added another bus to the GPU that allows it to read directly from system memory or write directly to system memory, bypassing its own L1 and L2 caches. As a result, if the data that's being passed back and forth between CPU and GPU is small, you don't have issues with synchronization between them anymore. -- Mark Cerny

"Next, to support the case where you want to use the GPU L2 cache simultaneously for both graphics processing and asynchronous compute, we have added a bit in the tags of the cache lines, we call it the 'volatile' bit. You can then selectively mark all accesses by compute as 'volatile,' and when it's time for compute to read from system memory, it can invalidate, selectively, the lines it uses in the L2. When it comes time to write back the results, it can write back selectively the lines that it uses. This innovation allows compute to use the GPU L2 cache and perform the required operations without significantly impacting the graphics operations going on at the same time -- in other words, it radically reduces the overhead of running compute and graphics together on the GPU." -- Mark Cerny

This concept grew out of the software Sony created, called SPURS, to help programmers juggle tasks on the CELL's SPUs -- but on the PS4, it's being accomplished in hardware. -- Gamasutra

Spoiler: tl;dr

- CELL's 18 asynchronous engines + SPURS (software implementation) = PS3 "secret sauce"
- 8 CELL-inspired Radeon Asynchronous Compute Engines (ACE) + SPURS (hardware implementation) = PS4 "secret sauce"
- Original recipe courtesy of Ken Kutaragi.

 

[GAF machine]

They just needed to ducktape 3 PS3s together and ta-da: PS4 with RT!

Man, that's really crazy! Thank you for sharing!

Here's one from IBM showing three PS3s ray-tracing the same car model in a complete scene...

​

 

[saintjules]

 

[JonnyMP3]

He is as aggressive as Peter Moore when he was the head of xbox. That guy kicked Sony's ass. Don and Phil then came and fucked up xbox.

On a side note: Jim Sterling is bitching about Spider-Man exclusivity on his youtube channel. I refuse to link his video though as I don't like to give him views.

Don't fuck with Brits!

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Anyone think Lara will actually look like this next gen?

Not as sexy as Abby. Nothing better than flat chest and big arms. Big arms can squeeze your gun hard til you fire with both barrels.

 

[TGO]

Is this a CG render, or a real person? I literally can't tell because of my old, old eyes.

Either way, if Lara looks like this next time around it'll sell bazillions.

she's real

 

[Three Jackdaws]

"I am pretty dam sure the PS5 has improved geometry handling which will be part of the later AMD roadmaps (RDNA 3), there are some other things as well which I have been asked not to mention".

 

[FunkMiller]

Anyone think Lara will actually look like this next gen?

she's real

Oh my.

I may need some time alone.

 

[BlueXImpulse]

From the sounds of things geometry engine is yet another next gen leap!

 

[kyliethicc]

she's real

Let's hope the PS5's CPU can provide... realistic physics.

 

[SportsFan581]

Just look at fucking Halo Infinite, now it's a "Games as a Service" type game with bad graphics (oh hey it's 120 FPS BS excuse) and it having F2P online modes is the worst bad news you can have.

Are we sure that the "bad" graphics aren't just because the game is looking to push further than most on the X1 hardware?

 

[Dave_at_Home]

I'm inclined to think that the GE is hardware designed to let devs move parts if not all of the geometry processing pipeline off the CUs so devs can have a much higher degree of flexibility in how they use GPU resources. Similar to how SPUs were used to lift some or all of the geometry processing pipeline off the RSX in PS3...

I'm going to keep screaming this to the rooftops. PS5's geometry engine is most likely capable of foveated rendering, which is needed for gaze tracking on VR. I could be wrong on this, but too much makes sense to me. Sony's geometry engine is more than likely far more robust when compared to Series X, or even desktop RDNA2 because of it. This is probably why people talk about PS5 having RDNA3 features, but not because Sony took from some future RDNA3 card, but how AMD will poach this from Sony on a future RDNA product.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

"I am pretty dam sure the PS5 has improved geometry handling which will be part of the later AMD roadmaps (RDNA 3), there are dome other things as well which I have been asked not to mention".

Additional stuff

"From multiple hints about the Playstation 5, I'm very certain that the next generation of RDNA (3) has improved geometry handling drastically over RDNA 2 and I'm fairly certain there is a much more robust caching system"

 

[Darklor01]

Additional stuff

"From multiple hints about the Playstation 5, I'm very certain that the next generation of RDNA (3) has improved geometry handling drastically over RDNA 2 and I'm fairly certain there is a much more robust caching system"

.... Aaaand, the PS5 is now $900. Buy now!