Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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GAFfe machine said:
I'm inclined to think that the GE is hardware designed to let devs move parts if not all of the geometry processing pipeline off the CUs so devs can have a much higher degree of flexibility in how they use GPU resources. Similar to how SPUs were used to lift some or all of the geometry processing pipeline off the RSX in PS3...

rsx-best-practices-l.jpg


geometry-processing-pipeline-l.jpg


lod-systems-l.jpg


triangle-culling-l.jpg
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What does all this Russian language mean
 
I'm having a hard time following your train of thought but let me try to parse out your thoughts here.

xPikYx said:
I would like to start by saying I'm not a great fun of 4k at all cost, I believe it is at the moment too much costly for real benefits, so companies are going in tge wr9ng direction just by pushing this narrative of 4k60fps or even 8k (EIGHTKEY lol). For me the right spot of this generation is 1440p with a good upscaling technology (DLSS like for example), even going towards 1080p to push tge boundaries at tge end of the lifecycle.
Click to expand...

You seem fine not focusing available resources on hitting an arbitrary resolution. AI upscaling on the consoles along with DLSS will vastly improve performance while simultaneously producing image quality that rivals higher native resolutions. This will certainly help throughout the generation as ambitions grow and techniques improve to match and help mitigate any visual drop in quality as these machines are pushed.

xPikYx said:
Consoles are closed box, you can push the narrative you want, the more time passes the more you need to reduce to achieve better results, the most common practice is going from 60fps games to 30fos games.
Click to expand...

Not quite sure I follow where you're going with this but consoles are indeed closed boxes. I don't agree with your logic that as time passes developers decide to turn their projects from 60 to 30fps. Their vision is the only thing that limits what FPS their game runs at. There will be games at launch at 30fps and we will still see 60fps at the end of the generation. This will always be the case even if we had machines 100 times more powerful. It is always up to the developer. If their goal is 60fps they will make concessions somewhere to hit it.

xPikYx said:
Architectural improvements are welcomed as well as obvious, 10tf are mid to low GPU compute power in 2020, in 2022/2023 we gonna have MCM GPU design, the difference might be huge just in a couple of years
Click to expand...

Ahh see I tried to get at this before but you're still holding on to TF as a metric of game rendering performance. They are not linearly related. You mentioned architectural improvements are welcome but then went back to relying on the TF number. Don't forget we are looking at APUs built off RDNA 2 (each with their own customizations that will propel them even further beyond the desktop baseline). These consoles have to come out eventually, you can't keep waiting for the next big advancement 2-3 years away. Also, for better or for worse, games aren't designed to take advantage of the power that 1% of PC gamers have access to. So these powerful new 3D stacked 30TF chips that will be coming will only serve to do the same things the top of the line GPUs do now which is increase native resolution, effects, and fps in gpu limited scenarios.

You just said you don't care about hitting native 4k but that is literally all an extra few TF in these consoles would allow down the road. So there is literally no point in adding extra cost to them because PC GPUs will still double their TF performance during the generation.
 
Dan_of_Rivia said:


"I am pretty dam sure the PS5 has improved geometry handling which will be part of the later AMD roadmaps (RDNA 3), there are dome other things as well which I have been asked not to mention".
Click to expand...

Dan_of_Rivia said:
Additional stuff

"From multiple hints about the Playstation 5, I'm very certain that the next generation of RDNA (3) has improved geometry handling drastically over RDNA 2 and I'm fairly certain there is a much more robust caching system"
Click to expand...
Apologies for the multiple posts. I'm curious to see the implications of this if it's true, RGT seems very confident on his sources and this information, he also states that RDNA 3 will change how the data is brought in from the SSD to the GPU (same system will be used in PS5).
 
Dave_at_Home said:
If Microsoft hadn't put such a focus on being the "all-in-one entertainment box", I bet the Xbox One would have been just as powerful as PS4. They obviously corrected with the One X, though. Being the most powerful has always been Xbox's modus operandi, so for anyone that's been gaming long enough to play on the OG Xbox; no surprise they come out with the most overall powerful system. I really don't know what people expect with PS5 versus Series X third party games cause it ain't gonna be much. Seems like some people expect PS2 versus Xbox levels of difference.
Click to expand...

Yep I concur. They certainly had the BOM to match the ps4's power, they just spent it in a different area. I'm not sure why people are still expecting a massive disparity this upcoming gen when two boxes have never been closer.
 
sircaw said:
aghh, I think your just looking for silly things now.

The tech has the most modern up to date architecture in it, big Navi is not out yet and your making issues out of nothing.

These consoles are probably 99% better than what most normal pc gamers have atm outside of enthusiasts.
Done with this convo, its kinda pointless and a waste of time.

Have a good day
Click to expand...

Yes, I think it's already been clear for BOTH machines that just relying on the TF number to assess how they will perform is just not the way to go. Sure the GPU's are equivalent on paper to this or that card. But where the cards and PC market have to contend with varying PC architectures designed for general computing purposes, the overhead of Windows and other peripherals and systems, etc. Console are designed purposefully just for GAMES. Their architecture is optimized for that purpose as well. That is why console games often perform better. You may have gotten 4k Ultra settings on PC first but how many people's PC's can actually run that, let alone run it WELL? Not the majority, that's for sure.

These consoles will be able to handle 4k well and consistently, from what we know and have seen so far. In addition the I/O and other sub-systems have been customized and designed by both MS and Sony to optimize performance as well. I think it's pretty clear already that while there is minimal difference in "power" on paper between the two new boxes, the actual REAL WORLD differences, at least so far, are negligible at best. It's also very possible even that the PS5 will be able to do and handle more in certain situations for games and the XSX will be able to do and handle more in certain situations for other games. We'll see about that as we get more info and see comparative games. Bottom line, from what we know, these boxes are going to let people have 4k gaming consistently, and for FAR less than it would cost consumers for a PC that can do the same. This advantage looks like it will be maintained, for all but the high end of the PC market for at least the next year or two. Realistically it will probably be 3-4 years before the "average" PC will be able to handle what these boxes will do from day one.

So I think this generation is shaping up to be the strongest I remember, relative to the PC market and is really a true evolution of the consoles. To me, the change from PS3 to PS4 was less of a big deal than going from PS4 to PS5 seems to be. Same for the MS side, at least in my opinion. Good times! Now all we need is for the world not to implode between now and November when these new consoles hit the market! :)
 
LucidFlux said:
I'm having a hard time following your train of thought but let me try to parse out your thoughts here.



You seem fine not focusing available resources on hitting an arbitrary resolution. AI upscaling on the consoles along with DLSS will vastly improve performance while simultaneously producing image quality that rivals higher native resolutions. This will certainly help throughout the generation as ambitions grow and techniques improve to match and help mitigate any visual drop in quality as these machines are pushed.



Not quite sure I follow where you're going with this but consoles are indeed closed boxes. I don't agree with your logic that as time passes developers decide to turn their projects from 60 to 30fps. Their vision is the only thing that limits what FPS their game runs at. There will be games at launch at 30fps and we will still see 60fps at the end of the generation. This will always be the case even if we had machines 100 times more powerful. It is always up to the developer. If their goal is 60fps they will make concessions somewhere to hit it.



Ahh see I tried to get at this before but you're still holding on to TF as a metric of game rendering performance. They are not linearly related. You mentioned architectural improvements are welcome but then went back to relying on the TF number. Don't forget we are looking at APUs built off RDNA 2 (each with their own customizations that will propel them even further beyond the desktop baseline). These consoles have to come out eventually, you can't keep waiting for the next big advancement 2-3 years away. Also, for better or for worse, games aren't designed to take advantage of the power that 1% of PC gamers have access to. So these powerful new 3D stacked 30TF chips that will be coming will only serve to do the same things the top of the line GPUs do now which is increase native resolution, effects, and fps in gpu limited scenarios.

You just said you don't care about hitting native 4k but that is literally all an extra few TF in these consoles would allow down the road. So there is literally no point in adding extra cost to them because PC GPUs will still double their TF performance during the generation.
Click to expand...
Native 4K is certainly the sweet spot for resolution. With that said, I'm much more interested to find out if Sony has an improved checkerboard rendering technique for the PS5. If so, and if it's indistinguishable from natvie 4K, than there is no reason not to utilize it. Render at 1440P and let checkerboarding do the rest for the goal of higher frames.
 
Dan_of_Rivia said:
Apologies for the multiple posts. I'm curious to see the implications of this if it's true, RGT seems very confident on his sources and this information, he also states that RDNA 3 will change how the data is brought in from the SSD to the GPU (same system will be used in PS5).
Click to expand...

Feel like I have seen hundreds of videos like this the past 6 months or so, I must admit, I is bored of it all now.

I just want Sony to show stuff now.
 
Dave_at_Home said:
Native 4K is certainly the sweet spot for resolution. With that said, I'm much more interested to find out if Sony has an improved checkerboard rendering technique for the PS5. If so, and if it's indistinguishable from natvie 4K, than there is no reason not to utilize it. Render at 1440P and let checkerboarding do the rest for the goal of higher frames.
Click to expand...

Indeed, while I'll never say no to native 4k I'm perfectly content with the current checkerboard implementations and I'm sure they will only be improved upon.
 
FranXico said:
The coeherency engines and cache scrubbers that Cerny mentioned in the GDC presentation, which people ignored because they were so focused on compute capability.
Click to expand...

The cache scrubbers are going to work extremely well with streaming assets. Instead of flushing out the cache you just dump what you don't need and load what you do need. Seems like it's going to be pretty efficient.
 
Dan_of_Rivia said:
Apologies for the multiple posts. I'm curious to see the implications of this if it's true, RGT seems very confident on his sources and this information, he also states that RDNA 3 will change how the data is brought in from the SSD to the GPU (same system will be used in PS5).
Click to expand...
If this is true, Sony and AMD were matchmade in heaven. Really pushing the envelope for both console and PC gaming.
 
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www.playstation.com

PULSE 3D wireless headset | The official 3D audio headset for PS5 | PlayStation

Discover how good PS5 games can sound with the official PULSE 3D wireless headset, fine tuned for 3D audio with PlayStation 5 consoles.
www.playstation.com www.playstation.com

Some quick notes on the PS5 wireless headset
- 3D audio
- 12 hours max battery life
- works with PS5 and PS4, Windows and Mac OS
- connects via wireless transmitter stick (uses USB-A)
- USB-C port for charging
- 3.5 mm headset jack for PSVR / other devices
- 3.5 mm audio cable included
- built in microphones for voice chat, noise cancelling
- mic mute button
- controls to mix in-game audio and voice chat volumes


KI04Fhh.jpg



Sounds perfect. Looks comfy. Probably expensive. My guess is $150-$200.
 
Last edited:
www.playstation.com

PS5 HD camera | Official HD camera for PS5 | PlayStation

Capture yourself in full HD, broadcast PS5 gameplay live to the world and become the next Twitch or YouTube superstar with PS5.
www.playstation.com www.playstation.com

Interesting points on the PS5 camera
- 2 1080p cameras
- built in stand
- can be mounted onto top of TV
- will obviously work with PSVR

Interesting thing is they write that the PS5 has built in broadcasting tools to crop out the background when you're filming yourself play. So it can then broadcast you Picture-in-Picture with your gameplay. Or with a green screen completely remove the background out, all with the PS5's software.


duiN24X.jpg


8Q20v9h.jpg
 
kyliethicc said:
www.playstation.com

PULSE 3D wireless headset | The official 3D audio headset for PS5 | PlayStation

Discover how good PS5 games can sound with the official PULSE 3D wireless headset, fine tuned for 3D audio with PlayStation 5 consoles.
www.playstation.com www.playstation.com

Some quick notes on the PS5 wireless headset
- 3D audio
- 12 hours max battery life
- works with PS5 and PS4, Windows and Mac OS
- connects via wireless transmitter stick (uses USB-A)
- USB-C port for charging
- 3.5 mm headset jack for PSVR / other devices
- built in microphones for voice chat, noise cancelling
- mic mute button
- controls to mix in-game audio and voice chat volumes

Sounds perfect. Looks comfy. Probably expensive. My guess is $150-$200.
Click to expand...
Never been a fan of gaming headsets, I'm more interested in what audio the PS5 outputs
sircaw said:
Average looking, seen better at my local Chippy. :messenger_grinning:
Click to expand...
We must go to the same place then🤔
 
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EmpireStrikesBack said:
If this is true, Sony and AMD were matchmade in heaven.
Click to expand...
One simple question: How? How they'll remove CPU overhead and overhead GPU driver? From what I've heard, it's unrealistic. I basically don't understand how this is possible without direct SSD access to GPU memory. Need a pci-switcher, a new dmac, a decompressor after all. Directly to GPU. Obviously, PC hardware need a new technical solution that globally changes the entire subsystem of data management in memory, similar to the solution in PS5, but again, this is not possible, because it's a PC, which has two different memory pools. I think there will be something similar and close to an XsX solution, but nothing more. If I don't know something or don't understand it correctly, please explain.
 
Oh, Man... Now there I think more of the microphone controller I can see Sports game using voice commands to substitute players because ALL of the users have the tool in their hands...
 
TGO said:
Never been a fan of gaming headsets, I'm more interested in what audio the PS5 outputs
Click to expand...

What? The headset is designed for the PS5 by Sony. It will deliver the exact sound the PS5 outputs. Do you mean you prefer speakers?

Because if you're gonna use headphones of any kind, this is the way Sony want you to hear the PS5's audio.
 
kyliethicc said:
www.playstation.com

PULSE 3D wireless headset | The official 3D audio headset for PS5 | PlayStation

Discover how good PS5 games can sound with the official PULSE 3D wireless headset, fine tuned for 3D audio with PlayStation 5 consoles.
www.playstation.com www.playstation.com

Some quick notes on the PS5 wireless headset
- 3D audio
- 12 hours max battery life
- works with PS5 and PS4, Windows and Mac OS
- connects via wireless transmitter stick (uses USB-A)
- USB-C port for charging
- 3.5 mm headset jack for PSVR / other devices
- built in microphones for voice chat, noise cancelling
- mic mute button
- controls to mix in-game audio and voice chat volumes

Sounds perfect. Looks comfy. Probably expensive. My guess is $150-$200.
Click to expand...

Works with windows?

Definitely will buy one at launch.
 
jose4gg said:
Oh, Man... Now there I think more of the microphone controller I can see Sports game using voice commands to substitute players because ALL of the users have the tool in their hands...
Click to expand...
It's so annoying that voice commands went out of style..

The OG XBox had them in spades since everyone got a mic with Xbox Live at the time.

Used to love using them in Rainbow Six.

Would be awesome if the PS5 controller mic helps bring them back in style.
 
Red_Driver85 said:
One simple question: How? How they'll remove CPU overhead and overhead GPU driver? From what I've heard, it's unrealistic. I basically don't understand how this is possible without direct SSD access to GPU memory. Need a pci-switcher, a new dmac, a decompressor after all. Directly to GPU. Obviously, PC hardware need a new technical solution that globally changes the entire subsystem of data management in memory, similar to the solution in PS5, but again, this is not possible, because it's a PC, which has two different memory pools. I think there will be something similar and close to an XsX solution, but nothing more. If I don't know something or don't understand it correctly, please explain.
Click to expand...
Dude, how I'm supposed to know those things that haven't been disclosed yet? RDNA 3 is years away, I'm talking about the fact that AMD and Sony are creating new tech, not the tech itself.
 
jose4gg said:
Oh, Man... Now there I think more of the microphone controller I can see Sports game using voice commands to substitute players because ALL of the users have the tool in their hands...
Click to expand...
I agree. Now that EVERY Ps5 owner will have amic, I expect to see it in more games as a gameplay element.
 
kyliethicc said:
www.playstation.com

PULSE 3D wireless headset | The official 3D audio headset for PS5 | PlayStation

Discover how good PS5 games can sound with the official PULSE 3D wireless headset, fine tuned for 3D audio with PlayStation 5 consoles.
www.playstation.com www.playstation.com

Some quick notes on the PS5 wireless headset
- 3D audio
- 12 hours max battery life
- works with PS5 and PS4, Windows and Mac OS
- connects via wireless transmitter stick (uses USB-A)
- USB-C port for charging
- 3.5 mm headset jack for PSVR / other devices
- built in microphones for voice chat, noise cancelling
- mic mute button
- controls to mix in-game audio and voice chat volumes

Sounds perfect. Looks comfy. Probably expensive. My guess is $150-$200.
Click to expand...

i think it will be mine with a deal (to replace my aging ps3 one)
 
kyliethicc said:
www.playstation.com

PULSE 3D wireless headset | The official 3D audio headset for PS5 | PlayStation

Discover how good PS5 games can sound with the official PULSE 3D wireless headset, fine tuned for 3D audio with PlayStation 5 consoles.
www.playstation.com www.playstation.com

Some quick notes on the PS5 wireless headset
- 3D audio
- 12 hours max battery life
- works with PS5 and PS4, Windows and Mac OS
- connects via wireless transmitter stick (uses USB-A)
- USB-C port for charging
- 3.5 mm headset jack for PSVR / other devices
- built in microphones for voice chat, noise cancelling
- mic mute button
- controls to mix in-game audio and voice chat volumes

Sounds perfect. Looks comfy. Probably expensive. My guess is $150-$200.
Click to expand...
it's not really 3D audio, it's just stereo.

Just pointing that out because the PS5 "3d audio" will work with any stereo headset.
 
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EmpireStrikesBack said:
RDNA 3 is years away, I'm talking about the fact that AMD and Sony are creating new tech, not the tech itself.
Click to expand...
I understand all of this, but don't understand how it will work outside of the console - a closed and optimized system? Because it's not just about the RDNA 3.0 GPU architecture alone. It's more global things that concern the entire system. So I wanted to see from someone how this is possible.
 
Red_Driver85 said:
I understand all of this, but don't understand how it will work outside of the console - a closed and optimized system? Because it's not just about the RDNA 3.0 GPU architecture alone. It's more global things that concern the entire system. So I wanted to see from someone how this is possible.
Click to expand...
I'm curious too, I can't wait until Cerny give some talk and disclose those customizations so people can compare with PC RDNA 2 and speculate. Sadly those things aren't that much important for end users, so I can't see any significant info showing up until launch or years after.
 
IntentionalPun said:
it's not really 3D audio, it's just stereo.

Just pointing that out because the PS5 "3d audio" will work with any stereo headset.
Click to expand...

Indeed, it looks like there's no faux 3D built into the headset. I could see that being confusing for folks thinking they might be able to get simulated 3D audio with the headset on PC. It's interesting they even went with the 3D branding for the headset when, like you mentioned, the tempest engine will work with any stereo headset.
 
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