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[sircaw]

It's not puzzling at all, PS5 was meant to release in 2019 and devs have had more time to work on the games than MS devs have. Stuff like Ratchet, GT, and Spiderman look good but nothing that couldn't be done on the PS4 minus some PS5 bells and whistles like RT. Which is realistically probably what happened... games that were in development for PS4 that shifted to PS5 as soon as the dev kits hit so they had more time for polish. What we've seen so far from PS5 is what we will get for the next few years, MS only has the time and room to majorly improve and surpass what is seen on the PS5.

You are giving a bad name to bugs

-first of all, in my opinion halo would be a fantastic day1 release. open world halo, cross-generation free multiplayer and 120fps on new xbox would be simply amazing.
I dont know what exactly cluttered the minds of those that make decisions, but I hope it was covid-related difficulties on development and not the craig trolling.

I am afraid the simple answer is quality control. Microsoft was prepared to ship it out in an awful state, but the backlash was just too high.

This should really worry you, they are prepared to release unfished, products, full of bugs and problems is a big no no for the future of their ecosystem.

The halo demo was a disaster, imagine the things we could not see, if that was the best of what they had to show, can you imagine the worst of it.

those new studios they bought, that's great and all, but they will be under extreme pressure. Postman Phil might come across all nice and dandy on videos, but behind the scenes that guy is a total prick, cutthroat. you do not get that high on the corporate ladder being Mr nice guy.

He is under extreme pressure to deliver, he wants results, he has time tables and schedules that need to be adhered to.

Games quality is going to take a massive backstep because of gamespass and the need to feed the monster.

those 90% scores from great studios like playground games are going to turn into 85%. mediocre studio are going to start pumping out even worse content.

I hate to say it, Microsoft is going to destroy gaming with their shitty approach.

why the hell could they just not take notes from sony, produce good quality games and the people will come.

It's like those people at the markets selling knock off DVDs back i the day. SIGH

Gamepass is the death of quality gaming.

 

[MasterCornholio]

So what was Microsofts strategy then for 2020 release ? I notice you like talking about Sony, What about MS ?

No games shown running on XSX ?
Halo
PC representative shown in most cases
No AAA first party announced or hinted at in release window

Microsoft is in a really weird position compared to a few months ago.

 

[JonnyMP3]

see? this is exactly the reason I won't bother to re-write stuff.
so, as I said, after ps5 is out, you guys go rewatch cerny's sweet-talk speech, AND my comments.
maybe you'll understand better then

'Burden of Proof' too heavy for you?
Weight penalty?

 

[splattered]

Now pay attention.
You see the bolded part?
That is called 'Projection'

It's called projection because you're somehow hoping that the PS5 suffers the same fate that the Xbox One did in this generation.

What train of thought makes you think that the machine with an extensive list of games to play... sits on a shelf compared to the machine that has far less games to play??

No i don't want the system to fail at all, i'm going by several people i know in real life that buy Playstation systems and then buy a madden, or Fifa, or COD but then that's all they really buy and play at all. First party titles sell through immensely because they trickle out at a very slow pace and it's a small handful of amazing games that are the very reason to own a Playstation in the first place. But that being said "Look at how many copies GT sold!" Well how many GT titles came out on PS4 the last 7 years? Oh... well that explains that. If PS games saw more sequels through the generation the sales numbers would thin out more like they do on Xbox.

Some super popular stuff like GTA and Witcher sell very well also but everything else? Not really more than their Xbox counterparts... people aren't lining up at gaming shops to buy up all the copies of the weird half ass indie niche titles that the Playstation library is flooded with. Sony die hards laugh at stuff like Bleeding Edge or Battletoads but don't want to include similar Sony titles like the Medieval remake in the conversation. Both systems have their fair share of games they took a gamble on that didn't turn out as well as they hoped. No biggie.

Ratchet is obviously a next-gen showcase, not a PS4 game with bells and whistles.
So is Horizon FW. So is Demon's Souls.
These games are not ready for show because they targeted current-gen, they're ready for show because their games pipeline is just that good, delivering high quality in the last year of current-gen and in the first year of next-gen. Nothing insane about it. Just hard work.

Good pipeline? Uhh you do realize we're talking about Sony, right? Their big major titles drop once every 3+ years. 2 years if we're super lucky. Delivering two high quality titles the last year of this generation more comes down to extra long development cycles combined with an all hands on deck effort to try and sell as many PS4 systems as they can right before next gen in hopes that all those people will soon go right back out and buy a PS5.

Ratchet is a next-gen showcase. Why? Because you can quickly jump through portals between worlds? Because there is a little bit of raytracing shown? What else? The portal jumps could have been created on PS4 and had a slower transition because of mechanical drives but sped up immensely because of the PS5 SSD. Nothing about the game screams next gen. Demon's Souls is next-gen? Really? How so? You don't think that could be done 100% on PS4? C'mon man. GT? Also looks like a pretty PS4 game with some light RT thrown in. Spiderman and HZD2 look good but we've only seen 99% cut scenes so far. One recent still picture of Spiderman that looked good but it obviously wasn't a gameplay screenshot.

Nothing that PS5 or XSX have shown so far have been a huge leap over what is currently available, it will take a few years before we really start being amazed by all the new tech and power.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

You are giving a bad name to bugs


I am afraid the simple answer is quality control. Microsoft was prepared to ship it out in an awful state, but the backlash was just too high.

This should really worry you, they are prepared to release unfished, products, full of bugs and problems is a big no no for the future of their ecosystem.

The halo demo was a disaster, imagine the things we could not see, if that was the best of what they had to show, can you imagine the worst of it.

those new studios they bought, that's great and all, but they will be under extreme pressure. Postman Phil might come across all nice and dandy on videos, but behind the scenes that guy is a total prick, cutthroat. you do not get that high on the corporate ladder being Mr nice guy.

He is under extreme pressure to deliver, he wants results, he has time tables and schedules that need to be adhered to.

Games quality is going to take a massive backstep because of gamespass and the need to feed the monster.

those 90% scores from great studios like playground games are going to turn into 85%. mediocre studio are going to start pumping out even worse content.

I hate to say it, Microsoft is going to destroy gaming with their shitty approach.

why the hell could they just not take notes from sony, produce good quality games and the people will come.

It's like those people at the markets selling know off DVDs back i the day. SIGH

Gamepass is the death of quality gaming.

I really like you fishy, and I think you are funny too, but these are like ...your opinions and I really dont agree with them.

because I like you, here's a list of the games that have been on game pass and have a 75 or better metacritic. as you'll see, its almost 400 games.

Spoiler

Game	Metacritic
Red Dead Redemption 2	97
Grand Theft Auto V	97
BioShock	96
Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain	95
Gears of War	94
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion	94
Ninja Gaiden Black	94
STAR WARS: Knights of the Old Republic	94
Gears of War 2	93
Braid	93
Fallout 3	93
BioShock Infinite	93
Pac-Man Championship Edition DX	93
Final Fantasy VII	92
Demon's Tilt	92
What Remains of Edith Finch	92
Forza Horizon 4	92
Undertale	92
The Swapper	92
Dragon Quest XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age - Definitive Edition	91
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt	91
Dead Cells	91
Mass Effect	91
Gears of War 3	91
FEZ	91
NieR Automata: Become as Gods Edition	90
Ori and the Will of the Wisps	90
Panzer Dragoon Orta	90
Hollow Knight: Voidheart Edition	90
Monster Hunter: World	90
Metal Gear Solid HD Edition: 2 & 3	90
Opus Magnum	90
Into the Breach	90
Bayonetta	90
NBA 2K17	90
Rise of Nations: Extended Edition	89
The Walking Dead: A Telltale Games Series	89
Fable II	89
Fable III	89
F1 2019	88
Halo 3	88
Kingdom Hearts HD I.5 + II.5 ReMix	88
Dishonored 2	88
Slay the Spire	88
Minecraft	88
Ori and the Blind Forest: Definitive Edition	88
Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice	88
Metro: Last Light Redux	88
The Banner Saga 3	88
Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus	88
Fallout 4	88
Guacamelee! Super Turbo Championship Edition	88
Joe Danger: Special Edition	88
BioShock 2	88
XCOM: Enemy Within	88
Europa Universalis IV	87
For The King	87
Rocket League	87
Devil May Cry 5	87
Unavowed	87
West of Loathing	87
DOOM	87
Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor - Game of the Year Edition	87
Spelunky	87
Kingdom: New Lands	87
CrossCode	86
Fractured Minds	86
Pillars of Eternity: Complete Edition	86
Killer Instinct: Definitive Edition	86
CrossCode	86
Thumper	86
Mortal Kombat X	86
DiRT 4	86
Rise of the Tomb Raider	86
Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition	86
Football Manager 2019	86
Pony Island	86
>observer_	86
Sky Force: Reloaded	86
DmC: Devil May Cry - Definitive Edition	86
Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty	86
DiRT Rally	86
Thronebreaker: The Witcher Tales	85
Final Fantasy IX	85
Machinarium	85
Yakuza 0	85
Infinifactory	85
Age of Wonders: Planetfall	85
The Outer Worlds	85
Enter the Gungeon	85
Batman: Arkham Knight	85
Guacamelee! 2	85
Hotline Miami	85
Outer Wilds	85
PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds	85
Halo: The Master Chief Collection	85
Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun	85
SteamWorld Dig 2	85
The Last Door: Season 2 - Collector's Edition	85
Valkyria Chronicles	85
Life is Strange	85
BattleBlock Theater	85
HITMAN	85
LIMBO	85
Resident Evil 7: Biohazard	85
SoulCalibur VI	84
Plebby Quest: The Crusades	84
Football Manager 2020	84
Reigns: Game of Thrones	84
FTL: Faster Than Light	84
Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition	84
Fallout: New Vegas	84
Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night	84
Rare Replay	84
Battle Chasers: Nightwar	84
Moonlighter	84
Frostpunk	84
Metro 2033 Redux	84
Gears of War 4	84
Halo 5: Guardians	84
Terraria	84
Viva Piñata	84
F1 2018	84
Everspace	84
The Banner Saga 2	84
Thimbleweed Park	84
Saints Row: The Third	84
Kingdom: Two Crowns	84
'Splosion Man	84
Stacking	84
Borderlands	84
SEGA Vintage Collection: Streets of Rage	84
Alan Wake	83
The Walking Dead: Season Two	83
Two Point Hospital	83
Final Fantasy XV	83
A Plague Tale: Innocence	83
Overcooked! 2	83
Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet Edition	83
Gears 5: Ultimate Edition	83
Ape Out	83
Age of Empires: Definitive Edition	83
Broforce	83
The Messenger	83
Cities: Skylines	83
theHunter: Call of the Wild	83
Yoku's Island Express	83
SUPERHOT	83
Prey	83
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided	83
ABZÛ	83
N+	83
Warhammer: Vermintide 2	83
Ms. Splosion Man	83
OlliOlli2: XL Edition	83
Tekken Tag Tournament 2	83
Yakuza Kiwami 2	82
Streets of Rogue	82
Kingdom Hearts HD II.8 Final Chapter Prologue	82
Endless Legend	82
Indivisible	82
eFootball PES 2020	82
Wandersong	82
DiRT Rally 2.0	82
The Gardens Between	82
Gears of War: Ultimate Edition	82
Viva Piñata: Trouble in Paradise	82
RiME	82
Blazing Chrome	82
Metro Exodus	82
Shadow of the Tomb Raider	82
Life is Strange: Before the Storm	82
Pro Evolution Soccer 2019	82
Split/Second	82
Joe Danger 2: The Movie	82
Defense Grid: The Awakening	82
Iron Brigade	82
Sonic CD	82
Mega Man 9	82
Resident Evil	82
Pro Evolution Soccer 2018	82
10 Second Ninja X	82
So Many Me	82
Streets of Rage 4	81
Gears Tactics	81
Ninja Gaiden II	81
Untitled Goose Game	81
Faeria	81
Remnant: From the Ashes	81
Subnautica	81
Stellaris	81
Downwell	81
Middle-earth: Shadow of War	81
Torment: Tides of Numenera	81
Wargroove	81
Tekken 7	81
Sniper Elite 4	81
Halo Wars: Definitive Edition	81
Perfect Dark Zero	81
Sunset Overdrive	81
Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons	81
RAGE	81
Toy Soldiers	81
Toy Soldiers: Cold War	81
Laser League	81
Injustice: Gods Among Us	81
Maldita Castilla EX: Cursed Castilla	81
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine	81
Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown	81
Endless Space 2: Deluxe Edition	80
Yakuza Kiwami	80
Alvastia Chronicles	80
Kingdom Hearts III	80
Death Squared	80
My Friend Pedro	80
The Red Strings Club	80
The Turing Test	80
Mutant Year Zero: Road to Eden	80
Westerado: Double Barreled	80
NBA 2K20	80
The Jackbox Party Pack 3	80
Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams - Director's Cut	80
Samorost 3	80
Full Metal Furies	80
Wolfenstein: The New Order	80
Battle Chef Brigade	80
Borderlands 2	80
Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel!	80
Kingsway	80
Operencia: The Stolen Sun	80
The Jackbox Party Pack 2	80
Tom Clancy's The Division	80
Thomas Was Alone	80
Darksiders: Warmastered Edition	80
Tyranny: Gold Edition	80
Shantae: Half-Genie Hero	80
Shadow Complex: Remastered	80
LEGO Star Wars: The Complete Saga	80
Mega Man Legacy Collection	80
Super Mega Baseball: Extra Innings	80
Super Time Force	80
Outlast	80
World of Van Helsing: Deathtrap	80
The Bug Butcher	80
Overcooked!	80
The Touryst	79
Observation	79
Gato Roboto	79
Ace Combat 7: Skies Unknown	79
Halo: Combat Evolved - Anniversary	79
Lonely Mountains: Downhill	79
Perfect Dark	79
Wizard of Legend	79
Tacoma	79
Halo Wars 2	79
Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts	79
Gears of War: Judgment	79
Kameo: Elements of Power	79
Ashes Cricket	79
The Book of Unwritten Tales 2	79
LEGO Batman 2: DC Super Heroes	79
Alien Hominid HD	79
CastleStorm	79
Monday Night Combat	79
Dead Rising 2	79
Shantae and the Pirate's Curse	79
Steredenn	79
Mega Man 10	79
Dead Rising 2: Case Zero	79
SoulCalibur	79
Dungeon of the Endless	79
Forager	78
BattleTech	78
Moving Out	78
The Surge 2	78
Bridge Constructor Portal	78
Alien: Isolation	78
Shadow Warrior 2	78
State of Decay 2: Juggernaut Edition	78
OXENFREE	78
Creature in the Well	78
Resident Evil: Revelations	78
Headlander	78
Ashen	78
MXGP3	78
GRID 2	78
Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition	78
Hue	78
A Kingdom for Keflings	78
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3	78
Layers of Fear	78
OlliOlli	78
Dead Rising 3	78
This War of Mine: The Little Ones	78
Defense Grid 2	78
Darksiders Genesis	77
Neon Abyss	77
Battlefleet Gothic: Armada II	77
Children of Morta	77
Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight	77
Descenders	77
Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite	77
Quantum Break	77
The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited	77
Wasteland 2: Director's Cut	77
Banjo-Kazooie	77
Battlefleet Gothic: Armada	77
Stealth Inc 2: A Game of Clones	77
#IDARB	77
RUINER	77
Orwell: Keeping an Eye on You	77
Titan-Quest: Anniversary Edition	77
Batman: Arkham City	77
Batman: Arkham Asylum	77
LEGO City Undercover	77
LEGO Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures	77
Onrush	77
Garou: Mark of the Wolves	77
A World of Keflings	77
Portal Knights	77
Aven Colony	77
Lumo	77
Letter Quest: Grimm's Journey - Remastered	77
Electronic Super Joy	77
Sky Force: Anniversary	77
Final Fight: Double Impact	77
Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising	77
Double Kick Heroes	76
New Super Lucky's Tale	76
Carrion	76
The Long Dark	76
Journey to the Savage Planet	76
Pikuniku	76
Train Sim World 2020	76
The Escapists 2	76
Surviving Mars	76
Supermarket Shriek	76
The Stillness of the Wind	76
Old Man's Journey	76
The Lego Ninjago Movie Video Game	76
Imperator: Rome	76
The Banner Saga	76
Metal Slug 3	76
Resident Evil 4	76
Devil May Cry 4: Special Edition	76
D4: Dark Dreams Don't Die	76
JumpJet Rex	76
Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes	76
SoulCalibur II HD Online	76
Age of Booty	76
de Blob 2	76
LEGO Batman: The Videogame	76
Strider	76
Don't Starve: Giant Edition	75
Deliver Us the Moon	75
Lego Star Wars III: The Clone Wars	75
Worms W.M.D	75
Void Bastards	75
Life is Strange 2	75
Riptide GP: Renegade	75
Hydro Thunder: Hurricane	75
Black Desert	75
Bomber Crew	75
MX vs. ATV: Reflex	75
Shenmue	75
Shenmue II	75
Strange Brigade	75
Darksiders II: Deathinitive Edition	75
Resident Evil 5	75
The Maw	75
Resident Evil: Revelations 2	75
Sam & Max: Beyond Time and Space	75

you can stomp your fins on that goldfish jar of yours for as long as you like, but you will convince absolutely no-one that has game pass that it is a bad deal or the death of anything ;]

'Burden of Proof' too heavy for you?
Weight penalty?

just use the search function if you like. your proof is there.
BUT it takes a functional brain to understand.
many people seem to not have it, therefore I find the repetitions a waste of time.

 

[JonnyMP3]

No i don't want the system to fail at all, i'm going by several people i know in real life that buy Playstation systems and then buy a madden, or Fifa, or COD but then that's all they really buy and play at all. First party titles sell through immensely because they trickle out at a very slow pace and it's a small handful of amazing games that are the very reason to own a Playstation in the first place. But that being said "Look at how many copies GT sold!" Well how many GT titles came out on PS4 the last 7 years? Oh... well that explains that. If PS games saw more sequels through the generation the sales numbers would thin out more like they do on Xbox.

Some super popular stuff like GTA and Witcher sell very well also but everything else? Not really more than their Xbox counterparts... people aren't lining up at gaming shops to buy up all the copies of the weird half ass indie niche titles that the Playstation library is flooded with. Sony die hards laugh at stuff like Bleeding Edge or Battletoads but don't want to include similar Sony titles like the Medieval remake in the conversation. Both systems have their fair share of games they took a gamble on that didn't turn out as well as they hoped. No biggie.



Good pipeline? Uhh you do realize we're talking about Sony, right? Their big major titles drop once every 3+ years. 2 years if we're super lucky. Delivering two high quality titles the last year of this generation more comes down to extra long development cycles combined with an all hands on deck effort to try and sell as many PS4 systems as they can in hopes that all those people will soon go right back out and buy a PS5.

Ratchet is a next-gen showcase. Why? Because you can quickly jump through portals between worlds? Because there is a little bit of raytracing shown? What else? The portal jumps could have been created on PS4 and had a slower transition because of mechanical drives but sped up immensely because of the PS5 SSD. Nothing about the game screams next gen. Demon's Souls is next-gen? Really? How so? You don't think that could be done 100% on PS4? C'mon man. GT? Also looks like a pretty PS4 game with some light RT thrown in. Spiderman and HZD2 look good but we've only seen 99% cut scenes so far. One recent still picture of Spiderman that looked good but it obviously wasn't a gameplay screenshot.

Nothing that PS5 or XSX have shown so far have been a huge leap over what is currently available, it will take a few years before we really start being amazed by all the new tech and power.

But you are also totally avoiding the point that Sony's big 1st party hitters sell Millions!
Xbox has in no way matched that at all this generation.
Not Halo. Not Gears. Not Forza. And definitely not Crackdown.
So it's not discounting the small niche medium level games or small indie games. But apart from 3rd party games ala COD and GTA, the selling point that stops Playstation from being on a shelf is numerous big AAA exclusive GOTY contender titles.
I Repeat. Sells millions.

 

[geordiemp]

No i don't want the system to fail at all, i'm going by several people i know in real life that buy Playstation systems and then buy a madden, or Fifa, or COD but then that's all they really buy and play at all. First party titles sell through immensely because they trickle out at a very slow pace and it's a small handful of amazing games that are the very reason to own a Playstation in the first place. But that being said "Look at how many copies GT sold!" Well how many GT titles came out on PS4 the last 7 years? Oh... well that explains that. If PS games saw more sequels through the generation the sales numbers would thin out more like they do on Xbox.

Some super popular stuff like GTA and Witcher sell very well also but everything else? Not really more than their Xbox counterparts... people aren't lining up at gaming shops to buy up all the copies of the weird half ass indie niche titles that the Playstation library is flooded with. Sony die hards laugh at stuff like Bleeding Edge or Battletoads but don't want to include similar Sony titles like the Medieval remake in the conversation. Both systems have their fair share of games they took a gamble on that didn't turn out as well as they hoped. No biggie.



Good pipeline? Uhh you do realize we're talking about Sony, right? Their big major titles drop once every 3+ years. 2 years if we're super lucky. Delivering two high quality titles the last year of this generation more comes down to extra long development cycles combined with an all hands on deck effort to try and sell as many PS4 systems as they can right before next gen in hopes that all those people will soon go right back out and buy a PS5.

Ratchet is a next-gen showcase. Why? Because you can quickly jump through portals between worlds? Because there is a little bit of raytracing shown? What else? The portal jumps could have been created on PS4 and had a slower transition because of mechanical drives but sped up immensely because of the PS5 SSD. Nothing about the game screams next gen. Demon's Souls is next-gen? Really? How so? You don't think that could be done 100% on PS4? C'mon man. GT? Also looks like a pretty PS4 game with some light RT thrown in. Spiderman and HZD2 look good but we've only seen 99% cut scenes so far. One recent still picture of Spiderman that looked good but it obviously wasn't a gameplay screenshot.

Nothing that PS5 or XSX have shown so far have been a huge leap over what is currently available, it will take a few years before we really start being amazed by all the new tech and power.

Can I remind you whats been seen on XSX ? The pop in was awful and that is hardware not coding ability.

And why the need for VRS on such a simple render ? That is also hardware.

You seem to be in this strange belief that all is well ? And this was the best MS had to show....Its mind boggling.

 

[HawarMiran]

I got that e-mail from Sony too. Am I special now?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Good pipeline? Uhh you do realize we're talking about Sony, right? Their big major titles drop once every 3+ years. 2 years if we're super lucky.

Lol what? You blind son

 

[lepermessiah]

I AM AUTHORITY

 

[FeiRR]

Just throwing it here to show how out of his mind that green guy is

PS4 Software Attach Ratio is Nearly 10, Which Is Historically High

gamingbolt.com

 

[JonnyMP3]

I really like you fishy, and I think you are funny too, but these are like ...your opinions and I really dont agree with them.



just use the search function if you like. your proof is there.
BUT it takes a functional brain to understand.
many people seem to not have it, therefore I find the repetitions a waste of time.

And so do the rest of us. This is why there was a PS5 FUD list created and the likes of geordiemp are saying they're playing FUD bingo with you lot.
Because it's all the same thing that's already been countered and there's really nothing you can actually say that hasn't already been countered.
We know it's tiring to have the answer sheet brought up immediately when questioned.

 

[lepermessiah]

Can I remind you whats been seen on XSX ? The pop in was awful and that is hardware not coding ability.

And why the need for VRS on such a simple render ? That is also hardware.

You seem to be in this strange belief that all is well ? And this was the best MS had to show....Its mind boggling.

Christ that's awful. PowAh

 

[sircaw]

I really like you fishy, and I think you are funny too, but these are like ...your opinions and I really dont agree with them.

I do worry about it, seriously.

quality has to take a backseat, in order to feed the masses.

i can not explain the Halo demo any other way.

I mean Phil must have seen it, he most of thought " we can not show this, the way it is."

fanboy bullshit aside for a sec m8.

answer me this one question.

If you were in charge of Microsoft gaming and saw that demo, with all that awful pop-in would you of given it the ok to be shown like that. Bare in mind this is to show off the power of next-gen and 12 tfops, ssd etc.

Just answer the above question.

I would not off allowed it, on Microsoft, sony anywhere.

 

[Tripolygon]

see? this is exactly the reason I won't bother to re-write stuff.
so, as I said, after ps5 is out, you guys go rewatch cerny's sweet-talk speech, AND my comments.
maybe you'll understand better then

JFC, here let me help you repeat what you have said. I read these threads and unfortunately a lot of stupid post repeated ad nauseam sticks. Now i might be paraphrasing so bear with me. Pun intended.

1. They couldn't sustain 3GHz on CPU but after the magical boost they can now magically reach 3.5GHz
2. They couldn't reach 2GHz but after the magical boost they can now magically reach 2.23GHz on GPU
3. Something about thermal throttle
4. Something about fake CGI
5. Lots of stuff about Flight Simulator

Am i missing anything?

 

[Randy Randerson]

No i don't want the system to fail at all, i'm going by several people i know in real life that buy Playstation systems and then buy a madden, or Fifa, or COD but then that's all they really buy and play at all. First party titles sell through immensely because they trickle out at a very slow pace and it's a small handful of amazing games that are the very reason to own a Playstation in the first place. But that being said "Look at how many copies GT sold!" Well how many GT titles came out on PS4 the last 7 years? Oh... well that explains that. If PS games saw more sequels through the generation the sales numbers would thin out more like they do on Xbox.

Some super popular stuff like GTA and Witcher sell very well also but everything else? Not really more than their Xbox counterparts... people aren't lining up at gaming shops to buy up all the copies of the weird half ass indie niche titles that the Playstation library is flooded with. Sony die hards laugh at stuff like Bleeding Edge or Battletoads but don't want to include similar Sony titles like the Medieval remake in the conversation. Both systems have their fair share of games they took a gamble on that didn't turn out as well as they hoped. No biggie.



Good pipeline? Uhh you do realize we're talking about Sony, right? Their big major titles drop once every 3+ years. 2 years if we're super lucky. Delivering two high quality titles the last year of this generation more comes down to extra long development cycles combined with an all hands on deck effort to try and sell as many PS4 systems as they can right before next gen in hopes that all those people will soon go right back out and buy a PS5.

Ratchet is a next-gen showcase. Why? Because you can quickly jump through portals between worlds? Because there is a little bit of raytracing shown? What else? The portal jumps could have been created on PS4 and had a slower transition because of mechanical drives but sped up immensely because of the PS5 SSD. Nothing about the game screams next gen. Demon's Souls is next-gen? Really? How so? You don't think that could be done 100% on PS4? C'mon man. GT? Also looks like a pretty PS4 game with some light RT thrown in. Spiderman and HZD2 look good but we've only seen 99% cut scenes so far. One recent still picture of Spiderman that looked good but it obviously wasn't a gameplay screenshot.

Nothing that PS5 or XSX have shown so far have been a huge leap over what is currently available, it will take a few years before we really start being amazed by all the new tech and power.

Your logic is flawed. You are attributing your personal experience to how all other gamers use their consoles. If you have a source, please share.

And on R&C, yes technically it is possible. But at the detail and speed that was shown on PS5? Absolutely not. The number of LODs needed alone would make it a futile exercise to try to get a scene like that to run on an HDD in real time.

 

[sircaw]

I got that e-mail from Sony too. Am I special now?

I got an email from my optometrists FFS

Damn you

 

[FranXico]

And on R&C, yes technically it is possible. But at the detail and speed that was shown on PS5? Absolutely not. The number of LODs needed alone would make it a futile exercise to try to get a scene like that to run on an HDD in real time.

The portal transitions would last around 20 seconds (at least).

 

[Three Jackdaws]

This made me laugh

 

[FeiRR]

The portal transitions would last around 20 seconds (at least).

They could've used a lift, like in Halo.

Oh, wait...

 

[lepermessiah]

Rapid texture streaming on the fly ftw

 

[Randy Randerson]

They could've used a lift, like in Halo.

Oh, wait...

My intent to point that out was just to say that the argument that R&C could run on current gen is pretty ridiculous. Nothing about Halo or Mircrosoft.

Portals get longer, textures get worse, worlds get smaller, and so on. If time was an infinite resource, anything is possible but sadly that is not the case.

 

[SonicJams]

Microsoft is in a really weird position compared to a few months ago.

Bahahaha I love this episode!!

 

[Randy Randerson]

The portal transitions would last around 20 seconds (at least).

Exactly. What is a <30 second piece of gameplay becomes a few minutes of sitting around in portals which does not sound like a fun gaming experience to me.

 

[Red_Driver85]

so, as I said, after ps5 is out, you guys go rewatch cerny's sweet-talk speech, AND my comments.
maybe you'll understand better then

 

[Nickolaidas]

No no everyone here is right... Sony 1st party have only had the Dev Kits for 6-12 months and magically whipped up all the games shown in a near release state on PS5 ready to be released come launch in November through Q2 2021. Be realistic people.

PS5 target was 10tf in 2019, XSX target was 12tf in 2020.

Working on next-gen games for a longer time than MS doesn't necessarily prove that the PS5 was a 2019 console. It could just as well mean that Sony had more foresight than MS.

Even if you ARE right, what the fuck does it matter? What does it matter if Sony delayed the PS5 to make it a little more powerful, or ... I don't know, whatever? Why the fuck does it matter? In what universe does delaying one's console somehow ... proves something?

 

[AeneaGames]

MS only has the time and room to majorly improve and surpass what is seen on the PS5.

Pray tell how they will majorly improve and surpass what was seen on PS5? Another hidden second GPU? Because if you believe that the small power difference will be able to deliver that you will be surely disappointed

 

[Apollo Helios]

But you are also totally avoiding the point that Sony's big 1st party hitters sell Millions!
Xbox has in no way matched that at all this generation.
Not Halo. Not Gears. Not Forza. And definitely not Crackdown.
So it's not discounting the small niche medium level games or small indie games. But apart from 3rd party games ala COD and GTA, the selling point that stops Playstation from being on a shelf is numerous big AAA exclusive GOTY contender titles.
I Repeat. Sells millions.

Stop making sense to him, their logic is non-logic, if MS 1st party doesn't sell 10s of millions they lose all capacity to compare the rivals because they lose all the benchmark, if they didn't they would lose their minds, so you see it is better to stay 'sane' than to face reality. In their minds "If MS doesn't sell 10s of millions than no one can" they lack the basic comprehension that way. And when there are facts swirling that is close to waking them to reality, they find ways to avoid them or deflect the facts, they even go so far as accusing Sony with what should be directed of MS and hope those accusations stick. MS 1st party game pipeline is so shitty that they think they can accuse Sony the same and hope that sticks LOL they got so mixed up, they are obviously blind.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

JFC, here let me help you repeat what you have said. I read these threads and unfortunately a lot of stupid post repeated ad nauseam sticks. Now i might be paraphrasing so bear with me. Pun intended.

1. They couldn't sustain 3GHz on CPU but after the magical boost they can now magically reach 3.5GHz
2. They couldn't reach 2GHz but after the magical boost they can now magically reach 2.23GHz on GPU
3. Something about thermal throttle
4. Something about fake CGI
5. Lots of stuff about Flight Simulator

Am i missing anything?

1 and 2 are CERNY's words, not mine, I provided timestamped links just to make those guys that wanted, to understand.
it seems you didnt.
the rest of your points, not so much. try again if you want

 

[Apollo Helios]

They could've used a lift, like in Halo.

Oh, wait...

LOL I'm ded!

 

[Dave_at_Home]

Shhh stop making sense or some fanatics will bait target you next!


I'm glad someone was paying attention. Yes GE in PS5 and whatever Geometry labeled stuff they showed on Hot Chips presentation is different insofar that PS5 GE is much more advanced than the standard RDNA 2 feature XSX has. Sony and AMD collaborated on advanced culling which is realized on hw that is based on more than 4 patents. Those were what Matt from Twitter was alluding to in his posts and what he argued with an MS engineer working on Xbox, and this MS engineer, right after being handed the proverbial ass, he then went on to delete his tweets. From which I surmised Sony knows their shit and not brute forcing anything and everything, instead opting to customize their SoC instead of enlarging it in size by doubling everything. Their solutions are not to double everything but instead what can they do to eliminate bottlenecks here, there and bazillion other places so it works like a well oiled machine at incredible and previously unheard of speeds/clocks.

We still have not seen PS5 SoC die-shot, and I do not understand the immediate rejection of secret sauce so far as making it a meme and ridiculing it when in fact there are many of those present for real on the hardware and they will be like fatal slaps in the face when revealed. The slaps are already in motion mere millimeters away from skin, it is already too late to react and dodge out of its path if you know anything at all in the timeline of fabbing and taping out of chips.

Let me remind you almost every FUD attack against PS5 also revealed actual real disadvantages and bottlenecks that XSX has, so they are attacking where they are lacking in reality to spread misinformation that they are at least on par in their disadvantage, or when not in par they have gibberish marketing term non-real solutions to overcome those disadvantages etc. so that there is narrative that at least both have similar solutions, when in fact theirs are bad attempts at veiling the reality, when you drop the curtain, we will all see that it is not the Wizard of Oz behind. The real wizards are Mr Cerny and all the other nameless patent holding genius engineers working behind the scenes. How many patents have seen from Sony camp (some are still censored and getting reveled as we move closer to street date), and compare that to MS patents we've seen once or twice in the entire thread and you will know the truth.

Does anyone have screenshots of this Twitter spat?

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

I do worry about it, seriously.

If you were in charge of Microsoft gaming and saw that demo, with all that awful pop-in would you of given it the ok to be shown like that. Bare in mind this is to show off the power of next-gen and 12 tfops, ssd etc.

Just answer the above question.

I would not off allowed it, on Microsoft, sony anywhere.

if I was microsoft, I would have shown a multiplayer firefight between those pro teams they have inside their game development loop, and offer it as a download at 120fps mode

ps. go take a look at the spoiler tag I edited in my previous reply to you. maybe you will not be worried any more.

 

[JonnyMP3]

Stop making sense to him, their logic is non-logic, if MS 1st party doesn't sell 10s of millions they lose all capacity to compare the rivals because they lose all the benchmark, if they didn't they would lose their minds, so you see it is better to stay 'sane' than to face reality. In their minds "If MS doesn't sell 10s of millions than no one can" they lack the basic comprehension that way. And when there are facts swirling that is close to waking them to reality, they find ways to avoid them or deflect the facts, they even go so far as accusing Sony with what should be directed of MS and hope those accusations stick. MS 1st party game pipeline is so shitty that they think they can accuse Sony the same and hope that sticks LOL they got so mixed up, they are obviously blind.

It's not healthy to have to mentally juggle all that overload in their heads.
I wonder how they suffer through their tension headaches and stress?
Having to continually do all that mental gymnastics puts loads on the CPU cycles of the brain... If only they had a form of 'Smartshift' for the mind and shift some of that brain power to the GPU of their eyes and start seeing fucking reality!

 

[splattered]

But you are also totally avoiding the point that Sony's big 1st party hitters sell Millions!
Xbox has in no way matched that at all this generation.
Not Halo. Not Gears. Not Forza. And definitely not Crackdown.
So it's not discounting the small niche medium level games or small indie games. But apart from 3rd party games ala COD and GTA, the selling point that stops Playstation from being on a shelf is numerous big AAA exclusive GOTY contender titles.
I Repeat. Sells millions.

And you don't think MS 1st party titles also sell millions? What? Like i said... games have always released at a snails pace on PS and there haven't been any major sequels within the current gen. That's a huge factor in why they AS MUCH as they do. If we had three GT titles this gen the sales numbers would have thinned and evened out amongst them like we see on Xbox games. Sony and MS just had a different approach to releasing games. Sony want absolute quality system sellers even if the game takes 4 years to come out. They have been feeding that funnel longer than MS so they can afford the extra dev time. Microsoft want good games to come out more frequently to keep their fanbase engaged with new things to play so they have shorter dev cycles but MS lost focus on games early on this gen which had to be fixed halfway through so they are behind in that aspect. They have made HUGE investments in the last couple years which will vastly improve their situation but it takes time.

I really think this next gen we will see both companies more meet in the middle on quality vs quantity as subscription services become more important to both Sony and MS.

Can I remind you whats been seen on XSX ? The pop in was awful and that is hardware not coding ability.

And why the need for VRS on such a simple render ? That is also hardware.

You seem to be in this strange belief that all is well ? And this was the best MS had to show....Its mind boggling.

No all is not well, Halo Infinite is a dumpster fire at the moment. You will get no argument from me about that. That comes down more to shitty game direction though. But that being said i definitely wouldn't say that this is a proper showcase of what the system can produce. They are just behind Sony because their next gen plans are further out than Sony's were. Which is what i keep saying. 2019 vs 2020.

 

[AeneaGames]

So they were supposed to launch in 2019 with 0 games? You sure it wasn't Xbox that was planning to launch in 2021?

No, no, they let everyone believe they were going to release a mediocre system in 2019, then told everyone that they would postpone two years to redo the design but when that Wired article came out it was clear they were going to release 2020 which caught MS off guard and they suddenly had to pull their release forward to this year as well. Halo is the perfect proof of that.

How did I do with my new FUD?

 

[geordiemp]

1 and 2 are CERNY's words, not mine, I provided timestamped links just to make those guys that wanted, to understand.
it seems you didnt.
the rest of your points, not so much. try again if you want

And your comprehension is whats funny, Cerny even made it simple

CPU

• AVX 256 instructions are very power and heat intensive
• Fixed 3 Ghz looking problematic the old way - does not say what old way is.
• Varfiable clocks at 3.5 Ghz with special cooling solution

Now, Microsoft dont mention bombarding CPU with AVX 256, and say 3.6 Ghz.

And you think we are concerned about this. NO.

GPU

The real reason XSX GPU is lilely is clocked low for RDNA2 and EUV litho 7nm+, almost as low as RDNA1 is because its designed as a 4 instance blade server so cant do varable clocks in a server with 4 things running.

We all can understand easily.

 

[FeiRR]

LOL I'm ded!

 

[AeneaGames]

I dont think that making your fans dumb and stupid with your misleading PR push is very smart in the long run for a company.
but hey, that's just my opinion

I know, right? Yet Xbox fans seem to lap it up!

 

[sircaw]

if I was microsoft, I would have shown a multiplayer firefight between those pro teams they have inside their game development loop, and offer it as a download at 120fps mode

I am with you on that, or shown an interior fight with no pop in. But they did not, this is very worrying to me.

To allow the demo out like that, its a quality control issue.

I can't think of any other reason and yes it scares me.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Just throwing it here to show how out of his mind that green guy is

PS4 Software Attach Ratio is Nearly 10, Which Is Historically High

gamingbolt.com

I'm somewhere at 64 total and 156 with ps+

 

[Rea]

see? this is exactly the reason I won't bother to re-write stuff.
so, as I said, after ps5 is out, you guys go rewatch cerny's sweet-talk speech, AND my comments.
maybe you'll understand better then

Cerny's sweet talk is more technical and more true than Phill Spencer's marketing lies..

 

[sircaw]

No, no, they let everyone believe they were going to release a mediocre system in 2019, then told everyone that they would postpone two years to redo the design but when that Wired article came out it was clear they were going to release 2020 which caught MS off guard and they suddenly had to pull their release forward to this year as well. Halo is the perfect proof of that.

How did I do with my new FUD?

in your case it's more like Fudge, you ravenous eating machine.

 

[SaucyJack]

Can I remind you whats been seen on XSX ? The pop in was awful and that is hardware not coding ability.

And why the need for VRS on such a simple render ? That is also hardware.

You seem to be in this strange belief that all is well ? And this was the best MS had to show....Its mind boggling.

The worrying thing is that MS went into that showcase, presumably, thinking that starting with Halo Infinite gameplay was going to make the show a real triumph. So either they didn't see that it was in a shocking state or they knew it was but thought fans would lap it up anyway. I don't know which option concerns me more.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

The real reason XSX is clocked low for RDNA2 and EUV litho 7nm+, almost as low as RDNA1 is because its designed as a 4 instance blade server so cant do varable clocks in a server with 4 things running.

We all can understand easily.

bwahahahaha I really thank you for your deep insight. and for the laughs

 

[Dave_at_Home]

Pray tell how they will majorly improve and surpass what was seen on PS5? Another hidden second GPU? Because if you believe that the small power difference will be able to deliver that you will be surely disappointed

After all this time, the fact of the matter is Microsoft just doesn't have making great first-party games in their DNA. That's not to say they don't have great exclusives, though. Hell, the reason Xbox exist in the first place was due to Bill Gates worrying about PS2 being a threat to Windows. Hopefully now that they've acquired some studios they can finally bring something that takes advantage of their platform to the table. I look forward to the day when they start showing those games off.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Imagine this popping up everytime you go through a portal?

 

[JonnyMP3]

And you don't think MS 1st party titles also sell millions?

Actually... Yes. Compared to Sony, MS 1st party sold peanuts comparatively.
Your logical basis is solely based on the Gran Tourismo franchise.
Sony have also invented a whole bunch of brand new franchises this generation instead of just milking its top marques like MS does. There's been Horizon, Days Gone, Ghost of Tsushima, Bloodborne etc which is continuing to grow the library and IP portfolio as well as still making the sequels it has needed to make. Infamous got a sequel. TLOU got a sequel. God of War got a sequel.
And snails pace is bizarre considering it's not 2010 anymore. Sony's exclusive output has been 2-3 every single year.
I guess I found who's been living under a rock this past decade.

 

[Games Dean]

It's probably just Blessing and Greg with more hot (bad) PS takes. That's all it seems to be nowadays unfortunately lol.

 

[Games Dean]

Oh dear he said Tuesday. Now I'm really interested.

PS ILY XOXO always goes live on Tuesday mornings every week. I wouldn't read too much into that.

 

[splattered]

I do worry about it, seriously.

quality has to take a backseat, in order to feed the masses.

i can not explain the Halo demo any other way.

I mean Phil must have seen it, he most of thought " we can not show this, the way it is."

fanboy bullshit aside for a sec m8.

answer me this one question.

If you were in charge of Microsoft gaming and saw that demo, with all that awful pop-in would you of given it the ok to be shown like that. Bare in mind this is to show off the power of next-gen and 12 tfops, ssd etc.

Just answer the above question.

I would not off allowed it, on Microsoft, sony anywhere.

Absolutely not. I would have canned the game years ago the minute i saw it failing. The franchise deserved a full development reboot and replacement of 343 management responsible for the failed attempt. Pretty sure a major part of the problem is that the game WAS rebooted but they kept the same people that were responsible for the mess. I know some employees also left of their own accord but obviously they weren't helping the situation while they were still there. How long were they allowed to stay there not performing? Rebooting it properly would have been extremely expensive but the money could have been made up via sales of a competent proper game release. Halo 4 and 5 were decent, but to see Infinite turning out the way it was you have to think it was obvious to Matt and Phil that this wasn't on the right track. I wouldn't have shown the game in that form because i wouldn't have allowed it to even get to that state in the first place.