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[Empire Strikes Back]

CFPU2 seems to be the equivalent to Tempest. It is a programmable audio processor and can also do HRTF and other parts not mentioned here.

What is not clear to me, is the "greater SPFP HW math than all 8x CPUs [cores?] in Xbox One X": On one hand it does not appear to be written by a technical person (because of the "8x CPUs", which is technically incorrect) and on the other hand CFPU2 alone appears to have less SPFP performance than the 8x CPU cores. So my personal feeling is that the other audio processors mainly used for decoding (which Sony should have as well), were converted to a SPFP metric and added to that Xbox One X comparison. I said before that I am not a big fan of Xbox's marketing and I think this is another one of this "not really wrong" but "intentionally missleading" in order to make it sound better.

Yeah, IIRC you don't need a custom hardware to make use of HRTF. The Tempest thing is that it's a optmized CU for audio task (that accordingly to Cerny involve a lot of multiplies).

To be honest, even if the audio chip on XSX is as good as the Tempest, they don't seem to put the same effort into HRTF as Sony. Sony mapped hundreds of HRTFs, are clearly making it part of the system itself and even filled a patent for an HRTF database.

Expect the HRTF calibration test to be one of the first things you'll do when turning on your PS5 later this year.

 

[SSfox]

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Come on now Bo, it's a game, PERIOD. That it's not your cup of tea doesn't mean it's not a game, it is.

Definition of a game :
an activity that one engages in for amusement or fun.

Well, tetris and solitaire are games, and much more fun.

 

[Wraith Phantom]

the games are coming ,the games are coming.

 

[kyliethicc]

Yeah, IIRC you don't need a custom hardware to make use of HRTF. The Tempest thing is that it's a optmized CU for audio task (that accordingly to Cerny involve a lot of multiplies).

To be honest, even if the audio chip on XSX is as good as the Tempest, they don't seem to put the same effort into HRTF as Sony. Sony mapped hundreds of HRTFs, are clearly making it part of the system itself and even filled a patent for an HRTF database.

Expect the HRTF calibration test to be one of the first things you'll do when turning on your PS5 later this year.

Edit - just a heads up, I'm wrong about Xbox not having a free 3D audio output for headphones. They do, its called Windows Sonic. I was corrected and just want to point that out.

Sony is also creating proprietary 3D audio algorithms as an alternative to using Atmos or DTS:X.

Its not just that the PS5 has audio processing power, as does the XSX, its that Sony is creating its own audio mixing, new spatial audio tech for outputing game audio to headphones, TV stereo speakers, and multi-channel speaker systems.

Xbox will support multi-channel setups, but users have to pay for Atmos w/ headphones. And they will have not any 3D audio for playing games using TV stereo speakers.

And we know the PS5 will allow users to customize the sound using custom HRTF profiles, but we have no idea if Xbox will support that. (Doubtful.)

Plenty of peripherals have on board 3D audio processors to create their own mixes, like PSVR and PS4 Platinum headset and various other 3rd party headsets. But Sony is cutting out the need for any of that, because the system can do all of that mixing and will have outputs crafted for any headphone or speaker output.

Xbox will have some of that, and so if thr user wants to use DTS:X or Atmos mixes for a game, then both consoles will be largely the same. But for 3D audio using TV speakers or headphones, only the PS5 will have the proper output without need for any peripheral. And free of charge, unlike Xbox, since Dolby Atmos for headphones is sold separately.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Cyberpunk didn't get into proper(full development) until Blood & Wine was finished in May 2016 as the team wasn't anywhere near the size it currently stands at. It might've been revealed in January of 2013 but the team could only have one out of two choices, either put Witcher 3 on hold which was much further along in development than Cyberpunk or the other way around. After they were finished with the game and all its dlcs did they finally went full speed ahead with Cyberpunk, making it their primary focus. Cyberpunk took about 5 years of full development. Now the studio is so large that they've already expanded and have 3 projects in development (i think one of the leads mentioned how many projects they're working on in an interview), a multiplayer expansion for Cyberpunk set to debut sometime in 2021, an unannounced AAA rpg and a new Witcher game(either a reboot or a spinoff as Geralt's story had concluded with Wild Hunt). Their quality standards and reluctance and continuous shaming of MTX's in videogames speaks volumes about them preferring quality over quantity and taking their time with their games. They've consistently shown that it doesn't matter if a game takes 3 years or 5 years or more to make so long as you take your take your time to develop it and don't rush to get it out the door and release it broken. A new Witcher is possibly 2024 and beyond assuming they want to prioritise development of their new IP after Cyberpunk Multiplayer. PsErebus is just full of shit like always.

I didn't actually know about the development schedules for CDProjectRed's games, that's interesting. You're absoloutley right about them wanting to prefer quality over quantity, it's one of the studios defining features. I know Witcher 3 had technical issues on launch but they were fixed soon after. The game it self is mind blowingley intricate and very well designed, both from an open world and story perspective. That being said, I'm super duper curious about what the next game will look like, especially with advancements in CPU and SSD the next-generation consoles bring, because Witcher 3 itself was a CPU heavy game and the slow HDD also held it back, the amount of pop-in I see when riding through the map is a lot as well as loading times.

 

[Nikana]

Sony is also creating proprietary 3D audio algorithms as an alternative to using Atmos or DTS:X.

Its not just that the PS5 has audio processing power, as does the XSX, its that Sony is creating its own audio mixing, new spatial audio tech for outputing game audio to headphones, TV stereo speakers, and multi-channel speaker systems.

Xbox will support multi-channel setups, but users have to pay for Atmos w/ headphones. And they will have not any 3D audio for playing games using TV stereo speakers.

And we know the PS5 will allow users to customize the sound using custom HRTF profiles, but we have no idea if Xbox will support that. (Doubtful.)

Plenty of peripherals have on board 3D audio processors to create their own mixes, like PSVR and PS4 Platinum headset and various other 3rd party headsets. But Sony is cutting out the need for any of that, because the system can do all of that mixing and will have outputs crafted for any headphone or speaker output.

Xbox will have some of that, and so if thr user wants to use DTS:X or Atmos mixes for a game, then both consoles will be largely the same. But for 3D audio using TV speakers or headphones, only the PS5 will have the proper output without need for any peripheral. And free of charge, unlike Xbox, since Dolby Atmos for headphones is sold separately.

If you buy an Atmos licensed headset it comes with the software on Xbox.

 

[kyliethicc]

If you buy an Atmos licensed headset it comes with the software on Xbox.

Exactly, its sold separately. You either can pay for a license and use headphones you own, or you can buy new headsets that include the license.

"Dolby Atmos for Headphones requires additional purchase from Microsoft Store."

Xbox Consoles | Xbox

Find the right Xbox console for you. Whether it's the Xbox Series X or S, check out our Xbox consoles to save and get exactly what you want.

www.xbox.com

 

[Nikana]

Exactly, its sold seperately.

For headsets only, which come with the software when you buy one. For speakers it's not sold separately.

 

[sircaw]

If you buy an Atmos licensed headset it comes with the software on Xbox.

So consumer-friendly.


hides away

 

[kyliethicc]

For headsets only, which come with the software when you buy one. For speakers it's not sold separately.

I know, I said that. I was saying that the systems are both going to support multi-speakers, but only PS5 will include free headphone 3D audio and only the PS5 will include 3D audio output using TV stereo speakers.

Xbox will have some of that, and so if thr user wants to use DTS:X or Atmos mixes for a game, then both consoles will be largely the same.

Xbox will support multi-channel setups

 

[sircaw]

@Mod of War has left me in charge. Time to pay the ferryman Biaches.



Be cool Hunny bunny be cool, no problem, everything is under control.

anyone know where this quote is from, correct guess and you win a free xbox from Bo_Hazem

so disappointed no one got the quote, its from pulp fiction, in the restaurant.

either that or people got it and did not want an xbox.

 

[Nikana]

I know, I said that.

You said

"But for 3D audio using TV speakers or headphones, only the PS5 will have the proper output without need for any peripheral. And free of charge, unlike Xbox, since Dolby Atmos for headphones is sold separately."

Not true. If you want Atmos for speakers it's free. If you're using headphones you can use windows sonic. If you're using atmos headphones/headset you get a license you when buy the headset as long as it licensed.

 

[kyliethicc]

You said

"But for 3D audio using TV speakers or headphones, only the PS5 will have the proper output without need for any peripheral. And free of charge, unlike Xbox, since Dolby Atmos for headphones is sold separately."

Not true. If you want Atmos for speakers it's free. If you're using headphones you can use windows sonic. If you're using atmos you get a license you when buy the headset as long as it licensed.

TV speakers are not surround sound multi-channel speakers. 2.0 vs 5.1/7.1/5.1.2/7.1.2/7.1.4 etc

You know how TV's have built in speakers? Thats not the same as using surround sound. And TV speakers don't support Atmos.

Try plugging an Xbox One X into a TV and getting it to output Atmos. Good luck. You need a receiver that supports Atmos and then at least 6 speakers or more, the ideal minimum is 8 speakers (left, right, center, back left, back right, up firing left, up firing right, sub.)

 

[ErRor88]

I know, I said that. I was saying that the systems are both going to support multi-speakers, but only PS5 will include free headphone 3D audio and only the PS5 will include 3D audio output using TV stereo speakers.

FYI, Xbox already does free 3D sound on Headsets. it's called Windows Sonic. I use it with my Lucid headset.

 

[HAL-01]

I know this, but i want to see real fluid dynamics for water, and playing with that! No more waves on the surface shader based (cough# tlou2#) The water in ue5 was real fluid dynamic, right ?

the video Elog linked is about offline water simulation for cgi applications, you won't see that in videogames aside from canned animations.
Real time fluid simulation is possible in next gen consoles but may be used sparingly as its computationally expensive
there's a few demos of Unreal's niagara fluid simulation here, this is what we can expect (timestamped):

 

[Nikana]

TV speakers are not surround sound multi-channel speakers. 2.0 vs 5.1/7.1/5.1.2/7.1.2/7.1.4 etc

You know how TV's have built in speakers? Thats not the same as using surround sound. And TV speakers don't support Atmos.

Try plugging an Xbox One X into a TV and getting it to output Atmos. Good luck. You need a receiver that supports Atmos and then at least 6 speakers or more, the ideal minimum is 8 speakers (left, right, center, back left, back right, up firing left, up firing right, sub.)

Sure, I'll conceede on Atmos not being supported through 2.0 built in speakers, I would argue this isn't supported because it's borderline pointless, but you also said there's no free 3d audio on Xbox via headphones which is wrong.

Untill I hear 3D audio from tv speakers using a ps5 I'll be skeptical. You can only simulate so much through two sources either firing up, straight, or down which is 95 percent of tv speakers. One direction firing.

They also haven't talked about calibration. If there's no calibration using a microphone then it won't be any better than using a virtual surround sound toggle on a TV.

 

[kyliethicc]

Sure, I'll conceede on Atmos not being supported through 2.0 built in speakers, I would argue this isn't supported because it's borderline pointless, but you also said there's no free 3d audio on Xbox via headphones which is wrong.

Untill I hear 3D audio from tv speakers using a ps5 I'll be skeptical. You can only simulate so much through two sources either firing up, straight, or down which is 95 percent of tv speakers. One direction firing.

They also haven't talked about calibration. If there's no calibration using a microphone then it won't be any better than using a virtual surround sound toggle on a TV.

Why do you think the DualSense has a microphone array? And Cerny already said they will allow calibration and customization via custom user HRTF-based profiles. Sony already does this with some of their headphones.

Getting spatial audio mixes to output from TV speakers would be huge for developers. So many gamers play using just a TV and never hear the audio mixes devs work hard making. If the PS5 can get more accurate audio to be heard by more players, thats awesome. Audio is super under appreciated in games.

And yeah thats true, they do have a free surround mix for headphones. My bad, but its not Dolby or DTS. Its interesting that Xbox doesn't talk about Windows Sonic. Seems they're not too proud of it and think Dolby's format is better.

Microsoft isn't known for making high quality audio equipment, so I doubt their proprietary Sonic mix is especially good. Sony have been making high quality audio equipment for over 30 years, so I trust them more to get it right.

 

[Sinthor]

Sony may have chosen to make a big deal out of their sound chip because they knew their graphics capabilities weren't on par with the XSX. They just took a different approach to marketing their system which IMO was smart of them to do. That could end up being a moot point though if the XSX solution is at least somewhat close to what the PS5 has. I mean... it's a sound chip. Whoopee.

If you look at how next gen reveals have played out so far, MS has focused more on "power" and "ecosystem" and Sony focused more on "immersion" and "speed" - MS doesn't have Dualsense and insanely fast SSD so they've more lightly touched on those topics (controller and SSD) and Sony doesn't have the power or ecosystem so they more lightly touched on graphics/ray tracing and services like BC.

When it comes down to it though MS DOES have a very fast SSD and a solid controller and PS5 WILL have very good graphics and some sort of BC.

If the Dualsense ends up being a big deal i'm sure MS will find its way around whatever patents to offer its own version, and then what would be left between the two? A super fast SSD that may never produce anything other than quicker load times? Time will tell.

You bring up a good point about differences. I'm starting to think that the dualsense with the haptics may end up being a really big deal. If it is, MS can catch up with that, but it will likely take them a year or more. That might be ok though since most of their actual exclusives that will really show the XSX off look to be 2022 or later as well. (not including Halo of course, if it really does ship in late 2021). I just think MS is in a very bad position now regardless of having very powerful and capable hardware. The question will be if gamepass can basically keep things moving for them until 2022 or so when they start to get titles that really show the box off or potentially have their own haptic style controller. It's going to be a tough slog. Microsoft's best hope has to be that in some way the XSX can CLEARLY AND VISIBLY outperform the PS5. That could make it "worth the wait" for their base. Unfortunately, I don't think that's likely. I still maintain that the most VISIBLE difference for people that they will be able to see between the two boxes with their own eyes comes down to the speed of the systems. In other words, if the XSX loads games in say 3-4 seconds, but the PS5 does in 1 or less. That kind of thing. Not talking about the actual merits of that kind of difference- I just mean that if you have to have DF blow up images by 800x to see a difference in favor of the XSX, people probably won't care, just like they didn't care that PS4 versions of games ran at higher resolution than XB1 (and this gen the difference will be even LESS). So the speed of how fast the systems turn on or load games may be one of the only things you can really see a difference with your own unaided senses.

We will see. Should be very interesting! I'm also very curious with all this silence if both companies still have any big details that they've held back? It's possible.....

 

[JonnyMP3]

so disappointed no one got the quote, its from pulp fiction, in the restaurant.

either that or people got it and did not want an xbox.

 

[Nikana]

Why do you think the DualSense has a microphone array? And Cerny already said they will allow calibration and customization via custom user HRTF-based profiles. Sony already does this with some of their headphones.

Getting spatial audio mixes to output from TV speakers would be huge for developers. So many gamers play using just a TV and never hear the audio mixes devs work hard making. If the PS5 can get more accurate audio to be heard by more players, thats awesome. Audio is super under appreciated in games.

And yeah thats true, they do have a free surround mix for headphones. My bad, but its not Dolby or DTS. Its interesting that Xbox doesn't about Windows Sonic. Seems they're not too proud of it and think Dolby's format is better.

I'm with you. I have a proper Atmos setup in my home and when it's used properly it's incredible.

If Sony can make it happen through TV speakers I'm all for it. But again they haven't said anything to really prove it. Tv speakers in most TVs are terrible. No amount of tweaking and algorithms can fix that. So even if their solution is good and next level, how do they plan to make shitty speakers sound good? If they have a plan they need to talk about it and how they are going to achieve it.

Ps5 having a microphone in the dualsense is great if it's used for that purpose but they haven't talked about it.

Windows sonic is actually pretty good. No idea why they don't talk about it. I'm assuming it because they don't license it the way Atmos does.

 

[Sinthor]

Nonsense. We know that PS5 development kits have been in hand for far longer than the Xbox.

The difference between the two consoles in power isn't that large. Multiplat games may have a slight edge on XSX, but not world-ending.

Microsoft does *not* have time or room. You have only a couple of big chances to make a case for your system. Thus far, they have failed to show me anything along with many others.

Halo: Infinite was an absolutely tragic showing. Time and room? Their biggest title looked like a current-gen title(because it also is). You can't make a case for next-gen power with that travesty. Now it's delayed, the biggest system seller potential they needed. That is a sour taste that lingers.

You mention PS5 games could run on PS4 minus bells and whistles. I'll grant you a grain of salt and say maybe you're right--even so, at least they chose to SHOW next generation technology.

Just also would mention that saying PS5 games could run on PS4 without all the 'bells and whistles' is a really intellectually deficient argument. OF COURSE that's true! I mean, anything running on XSX could run on XB1 without the bells and whistles (resolution and features along with graphic eye candy features). When it comes down to it, you could run anything that's on PS5 on a PS3 or PS2 if you downgraded it sufficiently! That kind of argument makes no sense.

Bottom line is this.. Can a game run 'as is' with graphic resolution and augmentations along with all the gameplay features on PS4 just the same as PS5? I think the answer there is evident. Same for Microsoft and the XSX. If anything, we've seen more proof of that with the Halo Infinite demo.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Uhhhh well yes, PS5 development kits have been in hand for far longer than Xbox - that's what i've been saying?

And yes i agree, Sony has blown MS out of the water with their game reveals. I would never ever dispute that.

That's why i say MS has time and room... time to work on current games to wow us next year, and room for improvement as devs come to grips with the increase in power and new tools.

In a couple years both sides will have had ample time to work with the dev kits and we will see advantages in XSX game performance. I didn't say BETTER GAMES, obviously that comes down to studio talent. I am only talking performance.

I do think people are underestimating the studio investments they've made in the last couple years, we will see some awesome stuff come out of the new studios and expanded teams.

(I would personally nuke 343 and start over though - lost cause)

Looks like you forgot that by the time Xbox studios release their first next gen games, PS studios will already have a head start and some will even be working on their second next gen games.

 

[JonnyMP3]

Maybe it's my own HRTF but I much prefer DTS over Dolby.

 

[Azelover]

Maybe it's because we didn't have E3 this year.

But I'm not feeling the hype for these systems. It feels like, it has either not gone into gear, or the energy was depleted somewhow..

 

[schaft0620]

It's not puzzling at all, PS5 was meant to release in 2019 and devs have had more time to work on the games than MS devs have. Stuff like Ratchet, GT, and Spiderman look good but nothing that couldn't be done on the PS4 minus some PS5 bells and whistles like RT. Which is realistically probably what happened... games that were in development for PS4 that shifted to PS5 as soon as the dev kits hit so they had more time for polish. What we've seen so far from PS5 is what we will get for the next few years, MS only has the time and room to majorly improve and surpass what is seen on the PS5.

Instead of making stuff up you could just say Sony took the last 2 years of E3 and PSX to build up to this.

Maybe it's my own HRTF but I much prefer DTS over Dolby.

I can't stand the idea that I need a subscription code for Dolby Atmos.

 

[sircaw]

I feel like this is, the calm before the storm.

the shit before the shovel, no wait, that's something else.

 

[AeneaGames]

Well, tetris and solitaire are games, and much more fun.

Different tastes and all that

 

[hemo memo]

I feel like this is, the calm before the storm.

the shit before the shovel, no wait, that's something else.

The fish before the tank.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I feel like this is, the calm before the storm.

the shit before the shovel, no wait, that's something else.

Should be a fun week

 

[hemo memo]

Should be a fun week

Please share.

 

[JonnyMP3]

Instead of making stuff up you could just say Sony took the last 2 years of E3 and PSX to build up to this.



I can't stand the idea that I need a subscription code for Dolby Atmos.

Does it? Not really bothered about Dolby Atmos or DTS X just yet, but having to get a subscription sounds ridiculous anyway.
All I know is in the Sounds menu on my PS4, I chose DTS over Dolby for my soundbar.

 

[sircaw]

Should be a fun week

if we get good info this week, you better lock yourself away, i am buying a ticket and coming over with flowers and chocolates.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

if we get good info this week, you better lock yourself away, i am buying a ticket and coming over with flowers and chocolates.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Should be a fun week

 

[sircaw]

I can imagine pitching up and after opening the door, i either get shot or the door gets closed in my face.
Americans.

 

[TrackZ]

Do we have any kind of estimated dimensions of the PS5 all digital edition not factoring in the base?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Do we have any kind of estimated dimensions of the PS5 all digital edition not factoring in the base?

I would estimate 375mm x 250mm x 80mm.

 

[vivftp]

Should be a fun week

If you know something is happening this week smile twice. If you're hoping something is happening this week smile once. If you doubt something is happening this week frown once. If you want me to sacrifice sircaw to appease you and the powers that be then show me a fish.

Thank you

 

[kyliethicc]

Maybe it's my own HRTF but I much prefer DTS over Dolby.

DTS 5.1 is higher bit rate than Dolby 5.1. Less compressed, so it should have better sound. (Edit, I said Dolby 7.1, I meant 5.1)

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

More details on Gotham Knights
- Open world
- RPG
- 2 player co-op campaign
- It's a cross-gen game

 

[sircaw]

If you know something is happening this week smile twice. If you're hoping something is happening this week smile once. If you doubt something is happening this week frown once. If you want me to sacrifice sircaw to appease you and the powers that be then show me a fish.

Thank you

WTF

fish lives matter.

Why are people always after me.
I sit here quietly, minding my own business, and out of the blue, DEATH THREATS.

People on this forum have some serious issues.

 

[JonnyMP3]

DTS 5.1 is higher bit rate than Dolby 7.1. Less compressed, so it should have better sound.

Awesome. Means my ears are still good!

 

[kyliethicc]

Do we have any kind of estimated dimensions of the PS5 all digital edition not factoring in the base?

It look likes its about 2 to 1 ratio rectangle roughly. My guess is around 38-40 cm tall, by 19-20 cm deep, and somewhere around 8-10 cm thick. The digital looks to be about 1 cm or so thinner at the widest point than the disc version.

The stand looks to be almost 15 cm in diameter so when standing and will likely add 1cm to height when its laid flat.

 

[sircaw]

More details on Gotham Knights
- Open world
- RPG
- 2 player co-op campaign
- It's a cross-gen game

I think they probably just ran out of ideas on a batman story.

Its a real shame, love playing the bat. That last bit i said in Harleys voice for some reason.

 

[JonnyMP3]

WTF

fish lives matter.

Why are people always after me.
I sit here quietly, minding my own business, and out of the blue, DEATH THREATS.

People on this forum have some serious issues.

Because in a world full of Alpha's... You're just a poor Betta

 

[sircaw]

Because in a world full of Alpha's... You're just a poor Betta

I don't know if i should love you or fucking hate you for that comment.

very good

 

[JonnyMP3]

I don't know if i should love you or fucking hate you for that comment.

very good

Yes!

 

[sircaw]

Time to go do some reading, AeneaGames says I need to educate myself more and has left books for me to read.

shes Like a big sister, older too, much older.

 

[Kaiserstark]

Should be a fun week

But the question is, will it be a Soony week ?