Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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ErRor88 said:
They're probably using the tensor cores to decompress the assets. Either way, DIRECT Storage API is the method of delivery. Everyone can try to downplay it but any I/O delivery on Windows is because of DX12U and the innovation MS brings to it's OS.
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Why are acting like this is new have you been living under a rock? We have known about direct storage API for PC since near the beginning of this year. Unless you have fixed function hardware or some sort of hardware on the GPU like ampere does the direct storage API is doing nothing for you. It's a software that's allows the system OS to bypass the CPU for decompression in layman's terms if you have the hardware for it. It not magic it's not what's achieving the numbers it's just this piece of hardware can communicate with this other piece of hardware more directly.

Software cannot make up for hardware.
 
Brudda26 said:
Software cannot make up for hardware.
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Hardware can though, and the nVidia cards have plenty to spare, so I'm honestly not sure what everyone's point is.

The architecture that allows directly accessing i/o from GPU is what the requirement is. Bespoke hardware or raw power handle the rest.

The PS5 is an engineering marvel either way. But it's good for everyone that PC can brute force it's way to having similar I/O. Developers in particular.

The real thing to be seen is real world PCI 4.0 speeds.
 
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Elog said:
Cerny was right again - I/O will be king the next gen to drive graphics, Interesting how fast the narrative changes once Nvidia entered the scene saying the same thing :)

Looking at the PS5 numbers and how they compare (looks slightly superior to me - but we need to look at averages) - PS5 is really a beast.

Will be interesting to see the average latency on the 3090 compared to PS5 - believe the PS5 will win that race with some margin due to the longer hardware chain on the PC but we will see.
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Nvidia has already been saying this quietly for a while now. Sony and AMD clearly know too. Seems obvious the AMD RX 6000 GPUs will have some PS5 like focus on I/O.
 
Sinthor said:
Oh, I didn't even see anything "gay" on there and wasn't talking about that. He just seems rather.....um...confident? Open? It's all good, but seems a little odd still for someone representing a specific company or organization is all. I mean.... I'm pretty sure if I had my FB or instagram like that and it came up somehow publicly...my company would probably fire me.
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He works for Eurogamer. They are more open to sexuality "in general" in most places of Europe. At least compared to US. They probably don't give a shit what he does on his free time, which is the right way an employer should view ones outside of work activities.
 
MarkMe2525 said:
Just a crazy conspiracy theory that I will probably be mocked over. I think Microsoft has kept everything close to their chest because they plan on bombshelling us with awesome announcements. I 100% realize this is a fans wishful thinking but they usually would get bad news out early to control the narrative. They look at Apple and Samsung and are following the model they laid down, announce everything at once about a month before launch. I'm probably just an idiot.
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Aah, gotta love the 'pretend there's nothing for the last hour megatom' theory!!
 
kyliethicc said:
Well thats because in that scenario Nvidia is using a 7 GB/s raw SSD. Tons of data being moved.

The amount of cores that would needed for handling IO scales with speed. So PS5 is 5.5 GB/s raw and therefore it needs 9 Zen2 cores (equivalent) to handle decompression.

XSX is only 2.4 GB/s raw, so it doesn't need that many Zen2 cores to handle its IO decompression.
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Sure but I'm left a little perplexed as to why Microsoft went so conservative on I/O and SSD to get 12TF when they knew what their rivals were doing.

I'm even more curious about console pricing as well as AMD's GPU pricing. Nvidia really shook everyone here.
 
IntentionalPun said:
Hardware can though, and the nVidia cards have plenty to spare, so I'm honestly not sure what everyone's point is.

The architecture that allows directly accessing i/o from GPU is what the requirement is. Bespoke hardware or raw power handle the rest.

The PS5 is an engineering marvel either way. But it's good for everyone that PC can brute force it's way to having similar I/O. Developers in particular.

The real thing to be seen is real world PCI 4.0 speeds.
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Was more of response to people thinking DS API is some piece of magic software that's allowing nvidia to do this. There is reason why the RTX3090 has 10000+ cuda cores double its rumoured amount of 5000+
 
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Bo_Hazem said:
www.neogaf.com

NeoGAF September Gif and Meme Contest.

Welcome to the NeoGAF Gif and Meme Contest for the month of September To see the wonderful contest we had for August, click HERE!!! @Lupin3 was the winner with @Lupin3 has won multiple months. Your mission is to not let them win again. Rules 1. The Gif/Meme you submit must be your own...
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com

4dgutp.jpg


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Well, they showed an empty box on Gamescom, so...

aFchFYv.png
 
TBiddy said:
I wonder which is more valid - an award that nobody cares about or Twitter-polls which nobody cares about?
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Twitter polls
Killer Sakoman said:
This card is fantastic. It allows you to build a $1200 highend next gen PC from scratch. 4k DLSS 60 fps games with RT on.
A console killer. This proves that a console needs content to sell.
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And guess what, content matter most by Far.

Only nerds care all that much about numbers and numbers, power above everything.

As tech progress, we Will come one day to an end point where having double, tripple, quadruple teraflop wont translate to Double, tripple, quadruple more better visuals.

As even an experienced dev already Said, It all comes down to budget, production value behind the Project, How skilfull developers are etc.
 
Neo Blaster said:
Aah, gotta love the 'pretend there's nothing for the last hour megatom' theory!!
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That's what I'm hoping for. I would be less optimistic if it wasn't for the fact that one of the largest electronic companies in the world follows that same template. I actually doubt it, but we will find out in the upcoming months.
 
ThaMonkeyClaw said:
That's the key thing there, how many developers are going to take advantage of it since only 0.01% of people will be able to take advantage of it, probably very few.
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Bigger implication is the RTX 3000 GPUs will have custom I/O accelerators....
THE:MILKMAN said:
Sure but I'm left a little perplexed as to why Microsoft went so conservative on I/O and SSD to get 12TF when they knew what their rivals were doing.

I'm even more curious about console pricing as well as AMD's GPU pricing. Nvidia really shook everyone here.
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Xbox knows they make all their games for PC. And most PC gamers will have slower than 2.4 GB/s SSDs. So they had no reason to innovate or push further, their games have to be held back. Sony didn't have that limit and so they went for 5.5 GB/s, and Nvidia is just making GPUs and will always want to push crazy spec numbers for every new lineup.
 
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zaitsu said:
After lame 2000 series ( Goodluck with selling those 2080ti for more than 499$) , Ampere is total badass.
I will still buy PS5 day one, but really whats the market for XSX ?
Hardcore graphic whores will choose PCMR, and Sony exclusives whores will choose PS5.
It looks like market for XSX and XSS are poor people.
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Add to it that those graphics whores won't be interested in Game Pass because the big graphics games are not on Game Pass.
Microsoft was wrong marketing the TFs. 12? Nvidia has 36🤣
A platform holder needs content
 
Brudda26 said:
Was more of response to people thinking DS API is some piece of magic software that's allowing nvidia to do this. There is reason why the RTX3090 has 10000+ code cores double its rumoured amount of 5000+
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Yeah it's really just that sort of basic "can skip the CPU/main memory step."

Honestly seems like more of an idea than some technical wizardry required but I don't know the in's and out's of what MS had to change in subsystems to allow that.

Totally agree anyone thinking it's some huge win for MS is kinda ignorant lol
 
IntentionalPun said:
Within $100 of $500.

Now go plan.

(so confused why this is complicated for everyone lol.. if you need to plan that far ahead for the difference between a $400 console and a $500 console, maybe you should wait until there are price drops)
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He's a professional gaming journo and a paid working adult who has bought many consoles before... How the hell is he supposed to know how much a gaming console could cost? Does he need to save ~ $500 or more like $300,000? Its impossible to know yet. Fuck Sony.
 
geordiemp said:
I watched DF analysis of 3080, he loaded Borderlands 3 and it was no faster than XSX, is it not using direct storage ?
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It probably is, I'm not sure haven't watched.

But how the hell could Nvidia hit 14 GB/s without dedicated hardware for custom I/O acceleration in their GPUs? They say it would otherwise take 24 CPU cores to handle that.
 
...When used with Microsoft's new DirectStorage for Windows API, RTX IO offloads dozens of CPU cores' worth of work to your GeForce RTX GPU, improving frame rates, enabling near-instantaneous game loading, and opening the door to a new era of large, incredibly detailed open world games.

www.nvidia.com

Introducing NVIDIA RTX IO: GPU-Accelerated Storage Technology For The Next Generation of Games

Load instantaneously, experience vast worlds with endless views and rich detail, and further improve gameplay by leveraging the power of GeForce RTX 30 Series graphics cards and NVIDIA RTX IO.
www.nvidia.com
 
AMD doesn't have any really good ray-tracing and image reconstruction tech in their products and this is such a shame! Yes, Sony are doing some customizations on their platform to solve some problems and increase efficiency of RT hardware. But I'm not expecting anything major from all RT related stuff on 9 gen consoles. And I don't really care about RT in games right now. Not much of a needed technology at this stage.
 
ErRor88 said:
...When used with Microsoft's new DirectStorage for Windows API, RTX IO offloads dozens of CPU cores' worth of work to your GeForce RTX GPU, improving frame rates, enabling near-instantaneous game loading, and opening the door to a new era of large, incredibly detailed open world games.

www.nvidia.com

Introducing NVIDIA RTX IO: GPU-Accelerated Storage Technology For The Next Generation of Games

Load instantaneously, experience vast worlds with endless views and rich detail, and further improve gameplay by leveraging the power of GeForce RTX 30 Series graphics cards and NVIDIA RTX IO.
www.nvidia.com
Click to expand...
RTX IO offloads the IO CPU workload to the RTX GPU (because it has a custom unit to handle the IO transfers).
 
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ErRor88 said:
...When used with Microsoft's new DirectStorage for Windows API, RTX IO offloads dozens of CPU cores' worth of work to your GeForce RTX GPU, improving frame rates, enabling near-instantaneous game loading, and opening the door to a new era of large, incredibly detailed open world games.

www.nvidia.com

Introducing NVIDIA RTX IO: GPU-Accelerated Storage Technology For The Next Generation of Games

Load instantaneously, experience vast worlds with endless views and rich detail, and further improve gameplay by leveraging the power of GeForce RTX 30 Series graphics cards and NVIDIA RTX IO.
www.nvidia.com
Click to expand...
nVidia using the same propaganda as Sony... so the SSD magic should be true.
 
ErRor88 said:
They're probably using the tensor cores to decompress the assets. Either way, DIRECT Storage API is the method of delivery. Everyone can try to downplay it but any I/O delivery on Windows is because of DX12U and the innovation MS brings to it's OS.
Click to expand...
How did you come to the conclusion that this unit does it instead of any other? :lollipop_neutral:
 
ErRor88 said:
...When used with Microsoft's new DirectStorage for Windows API, RTX IO offloads dozens of CPU cores' worth of work to your GeForce RTX GPU, improving frame rates, enabling near-instantaneous game loading, and opening the door to a new era of large, incredibly detailed open world games.

www.nvidia.com

Introducing NVIDIA RTX IO: GPU-Accelerated Storage Technology For The Next Generation of Games

Load instantaneously, experience vast worlds with endless views and rich detail, and further improve gameplay by leveraging the power of GeForce RTX 30 Series graphics cards and NVIDIA RTX IO.
www.nvidia.com
Click to expand...
It has to use it as it's for WINDOWS, they cannot bypass the CPU/SSD communications without an API that allows it. It's basically a handshake for a piece of hardware to talk to another piece of hardware. For the hardware to work with windows they literally have to use it. Everything done with speed etc is on nvidia side via there own hardware.
 
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kyliethicc said:
RTX IO offloads the IO CPU workload to the RTX GPU (because it has a custom unit to handle the IO transfers).
Click to expand...
Like I wrote earlier: RTX I/O is using DirectStorage to load compressed data from the SSD to the GPU. The rest (inlcuding decompression) is all Nvidia magic.
 
kourooshkabir said:
21 seconds

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I don't believe DirectStorage has landed yet, so we're not seeing the real performance here.

It'll take a while. But we should be seeing comparisons between PC/Xbox/PS5 in loading. I expect PC and PS5 to be really close, maybe PC with Gen4 SSD will be slightly faster on loading the game up? But when it comes to things like asset loading I expect PS5 to edge out all.
 
Some of my thoughts. I really enjoyed Nvidia's presentation today, it's cool that Papa Jensen got straight to the juicy stuff and didn't beat around the bush too much. I really like what they've done with the new 30 RT XGPU's and they're pushing crazy levels of performance and the price is relatively "reasonable and cheap" especially when compared to the previous Turing 2000's.

It also reminded me of Coretek's analysis of the next-gen in his "AMD's Checkmate" video which has aged really well. He was right in his assessment that the next generation of discreet GPU's from Nvida and AMD will incorporate more and more fixed function hardware accelerators for things like I/O compression and decompression. He also stated that it would be interesting to see how the Ampere cards will be priced because the consoles will also be offering "high levels of performance", (relatively speaking so PC master race chill out).

The I/O performance of the Ampere cards, Jensen gave the figure of 14 Gbps compressed, he was a bit suspect with his figures, but as a few others have pointed out on this thread, this seem's likely to be the "theoretical max" of the I/O same as PS5's 22 GBps theoretical max. I'm curious to know the average figures but as with all PC hardware, I'm guessing it will vary significantly depending on other parts of the hardware especially the SSD I/O itself.

Now what's interesting, I like that Sony focussed on the I/O, it's performance is still beyond "next-gen" and it will ensure the system will have much better longevity. It also makes the PS5 truly unique in that aspect. that along with the PS first party exclusives. Now I am a little concerned for Series X, all the boasting of "teraflops" and "RT power" and here comes along Ampere which eats it for breakfast.

You could say the same for PS5 however Mark Cerny never intended for the PS5 to be a "powerhouse" of compute performance and teraflops unlike Microsoft and Series X, however it seemed that Cerny wanted to equip the PS5 with enough power for 4K gaming as well as allowing for a generational leap in graphics. If the rumours are true about the PS5 incorporating RDNA 3 features into it's APU such as the GE then it seem's fair to say the PS5 "works smarter but not harder" compared to the Series X.
 
ThaMonkeyClaw said:
That's the key thing there, how many developers are going to take advantage of it since only 0.01% of people will be able to take advantage of it, probably very few.
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But nextgen will focus on that, the question is if the Series X can become a Bottleneck to PCs since the PS5 will have First and Second Party games that will take advantage of that.
 
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