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[Talon]

It's certainly possible, but there really are plenty of things that can done to make the game more safe. They'll change things in a way that most people won't like, but saying that the sport is irrevocably doomed seems a bit much.

The endemic issues with football aren't just tackles and big hits. It's the collisions that happen play to play.

Linemen appear to be more affected by head trauma than any other players, and it's because they're taking big shots. When you're facing a full-on collision with a guy that's somewhere between 270-330 pounds of power and brawn 60~ plays a game, that causes shock to your whole body and your brain. It's not just their bodies that are getting bruised, their brains are knocking around.

 

[Big Baybee]

Tackling is inherently violent and will lead to head injuries. Short of going to a flag league, there is really nothing the NFL can do to seriously prevent concussions.

Basically. I don't really follow hockey, aren't the subtly going through the same thing as the NFL?

 

[Buckethead]

R.I.P. Junior.

One of my favorite players growing up.

Damn.

 

[JABEE]

His Mother.

Why are they letting her speak?

 

[Draxal]

Tackling is inherently violent and will lead to head injuries. Short of going to a flag league, there is really nothing the NFL can do to seriously prevent concussions.

There are some minor things they can do like the kickoff change. I also remember reading about the new Riddell helmets that are supposedly to reduce the risk of concussions by a ton, but most players hated it and wouldn't wear it (queue players are their own worst enemy again).

 

[eznark]

^ Once the concussion research starts pouring out, those tweaks will not be nearly enough.

Basically. I don't really follow hockey, aren't the subtly going through the same thing as the NFL?

You could eliminate checking from hockey and still keep the sport basically intact. It isn't an inherently necessary part of the game. Women's hockey at the Olympic level is fantastic (as long as it's US v. Canada).

 

[Talon]

Basically. I don't really follow hockey, aren't the subtly going through the same thing as the NFL?

Well, Sidney Crosby already has an old man's brain, and he's, what, 25?

This postseason's been a bit brutal with the big hits.

 

[dschalter]

Tackling is inherently violent and will lead to head injuries. Short of going to a flag league, there is really nothing the NFL can do to seriously prevent concussions.

First, there's still more the NFL can do to make tackling less dangerous. There's always going to be an element of risk, but the emphasis put on upping the pace of the game has made tackling more dangerous than it needs to be and the rules needing some to only be down means that 'hits' are effective tackles, when they probably shouldn't be for safety reasons. Second, the biggest problems are for lineman because of the constant collisions that happen, collisions that don't need to have as much force in them as they do now. Goodell said something a couple years ago along the lines of "maybe we'll have to outlaw the three point stance some day" and the response was booing and hissing.

 

[Trey]

They don't have to report every incomplete fact, just report that he's dead which is a fact. At this point there is no risk, it's been confirmed, he's dead. Yet the NFL Network is still talking about bounty gate. Shouldn't expect anything less though.

At this point the most they could do is announce that he died. It's not really prudent to try to launch into discussion about the reasons why he killed himself and the ramifications it could have on players in the league. The bounty scandal is a much more focused topic and immediately relevant to the NFL at large and how it will be run, as well as the culture behind this inherently violent sport.

You could eliminate checking from hockey and still keep the sport basically intact. It isn't an inherently necessary part of the game. Women's hockey at the Olympic level is fantastic (as long as it's US v. Canada).

Nope. You can replace tackling in football with flags or touch and it still functions the same as a game, but it's very different psychologically and physically. Same thing would happen to hockey; entire dynamics to the sport would drastically shift.

 

[LevelNth]

Tackling is inherently violent and will lead to head injuries. Short of going to a flag league, there is really nothing the NFL can do to seriously prevent concussions.

That is absurdly ridiculous and pointlessly extreme. There is tons of stuff that can be done, ranging from extremely subtle to long term changes that work to alter the perceptions of what types of hits/techniques are safe/unsafe.

James Harrison's tackle on McCoy last year is a perfect example. Is that a 'tackle'? Yes. But it is dangerous, and thus needs to be penalized against, to eventually weed out that type of tackle from the game.

Whether that affects the game or not is another discussion, but I think in that case it doesn't, as evidenced by EVERYONE else in the league not needing to tackle that way.

 

[yankeehater]

Tackling is inherently violent and will lead to head injuries. Short of going to a flag league, there is really nothing the NFL can do to seriously prevent concussions.

How much does the NFL spend on helmet R&D, dont leave it to the manufactures, the league should do it themselves. Since lineman seem the most effected, maybe they could develop a harness system/neck brace like NASCAR drives have to wear. OL dont need much head mobility. How about pads that absorb the energy of impacts and dont transmit it to the player being hit. There is a ton the NFL could do if they actually cared and were not just posturing for lawsuits.

 

[Big Baybee]

Well, Sidney Crosby already has an old man's brain, and he's, what, 25?

This postseason's been a bit brutal with the big hits.

Yep. I love hockey highlights, but watching an actual NHL game is almost like torture. Weird.

 

[Talon]

Helmets are part of the problem. Players have been using them as weapons for as long as they've moved to plastic shells.

 

[LJ11]

You could eliminate checking from hockey and still keep the sport basically intact. It isn't an inherently necessary part of the game. Women's hockey at the Olympic level is fantastic (as long as it's US v. Canada).

Hockey's been proactive with concussions, they had to take them seriously after guys like Lindros and Stevens. Where they lagged behind was hits to the head, which they've addressed, and defenseless hits with or without the puck where guys can't get popped from out of nowhere.

NHLers just need more respect for one another, but they don't have much and still try to take each other out with huge hits.

 

[Draxal]

How much does the NFL spend on helmet R&D, dont leave it to the manufactures, the league should do it themselves. Since lineman seem the most effected, maybe they could develop a harness system/neck brace like NASCAR drives have to wear. OL dont need much head mobility. How about pads that absorb the energy of impacts and dont transmit it to the player being hit. There is a ton the NFL could do if they actually cared and were not just posturing for lawsuits.

Riddel invested alot of money/research on it. I'm trying to find the old article I read about last year about football helmets, but the current Riddell's are 5/5 concussion rated and I think the helmets most players used at that the time was 2/5.

 

[eznark]

That is absurdly ridiculous and pointlessly extreme. There is tons of stuff that can be done, ranging from extremely subtle to long term changes that work to alter the perceptions of what types of hits/techniques are safe/unsafe.

James Harrison's tackle on McCoy last year is a perfect example. Is that a 'tackle'? Yes. But it is dangerous, and thus needs to be penalized against, to eventually weed out that type of tackle from the game.

Whether that affects the game or not is another discussion, but I think in that case it doesn't, as evidenced by EVERYONE else in the league not needing to tackle that way.

Obviously I hope I'm wrong and I scoffed at the people saying the same thing years ago, but I've read a lot of the BU research and just do not think society will allow it to continue in a few decades. I'm certainly not condoning the extreme reaction, not in the slightest.

If it were up to me they'd be able to play football while betting on dog fights and smoking cigarettes. I just think there will be an eventual ban on the sport, or at least an effective ban(think boxing) requiring licensing, regulation and government oversight.

 

[Talon]

Hockey's been proactive with concussions, they had to take them seriously after guys like Lindros and Stevens. Where they lagged behind was hits to the head, which they've addressed, and defenseless hits with or without the puck, where guys can't get popped from out of nowhere.

NHLers just need more respect for one another, but they still try to take each other out with huge hits.

Well, when the sport condones brawls as part of the game, I think we know why.

 

[Spectral Glider]

Basically. I don't really follow hockey, aren't the subtly going through the same thing as the NFL?

Yeah, they've had a higher than usual amount of concussions over the last two seasons. But hockey also has laughable helmet tech, that's one area they can improve on immediately. They have gotten much stricter on outlawing head shots in the league but they are extremely reluctant to eliminate fighting which is kind of anti-productive when you're trying to get serious about dealing with concussions.

 

[yankeehater]

Riddel invested alot of money/research on it. I'm trying to find the old article I read about last year about football helmets, but the current Riddell's are 5/5 concussion rated and I think the helmets most players used at that the time was 2/5.

I know they are, but why isnt the NFL spending millions on better equipment. The NFL is a multi-billion dollar company. They should be spearheading research into this.

 

[tc farks]

Reading about the 8 Chargers that died from the '94 Super Bowl team, this one stood out:

• In 1998, LB Doug Miller was struck by lightning while camping in Colorado. CPR was being performed on Miller when he was struck again by a second bolt.

 

[Retrocide]

WOW...RIP JR....one of my favorite players growing up.

 

[bishoptl]

Not even in the same hemisphere.

You know what I mean, though. Has there been anything close to this kind of punishment in the NFL before?

Basically. I don't really follow hockey, aren't the subtly going through the same thing as the NFL?

Yes and no.

The NHL had three high-profile deaths last summer of former enforcers - Rick Rypien of the Vancouver Canucks, Derek Boogaard of the NY Rangers, and Wade Belak of the Nashville Predators. All three had struggles with depression, Rypien being the most public as he'd taken considerable amounts of time off from the team during his tenure with Vancouver to deal with things. Of the three, Belak and Rypien committed suicide, while Boogard died of a drug overdose.

Also overshadowing the concussion discussion in the NHL - the league's poster boy, Sidney Crosby. Gone for most of the year with sever post concussion symptoms, you literally couldn't go two days over the past 11 months without sue sort of update/conjecture on radio and television as to when or if he would return to the game.

Taking all that into account, the league disciplinarian Brendan Shanahan pledged to make suspensions stiffer for headshots coming into this season, and to his credit, he did at first. But as the season progressed, suspensions became more and more lax until we were basically right back where we started. See this and this for examples that should have been treated more seriously, but either were given a minimal suspension or none at all.

It wasn't until the hue and cry about hockey violence in the playoffs got into the mainstream press that Shanahan did anything even close to the bar he'd set in the preseason, hitting multiple-offender Raffi Torres with a 25 game suspension for this hit on Marian Hossa. Basically a slam dunk made on severity of the injury as opposed to actual intent - it was arguably a good hockey play that went OTT.

So yeah, the NHL has its own concussion controversy going on, but they're not taking it anywhere near as seriously as the NFL.

 

[LevelNth]

Obviously I hope I'm wrong and I scoffed at the people saying the same thing years ago, but I've read a lot of the BU research and just do not think society will allow it to continue in a few decades. I'm certainly not condoning the extreme reaction, not in the slightest.

If it were up to me they'd be able to play football while betting on dog fights and smoking cigarettes. I just think there will be an eventual ban on the sport, or at least an effective ban(think boxing) requiring licensing, regulation and government oversight.

Is this a governmental ban you're referring to? Because I don't see that happening at all. Ever.

 

[eznark]

Is this a governmental ban you're referring to? Because I don't see that happening at all. Ever.

They banned jarts man, they can ban anything. And like I said it doesn't need to be a ban. They can treat it like MMA or boxing. Regulate the shit out of it, which would have the same eventual effect.

The thing is, there are a lot of tweaks you can make to hockey and I think it would still fundamentally be hockey. Outlaw checking, widen the ice, (more extremely) go to 4-on-4.

If you start doing some of those things to football though you start to remove entire elements. Outlawing the 3 point stance all but eliminates running. Going 7v7 changes the game entirely. No tackling? lol

The little stuff like equipment improvements and stiffer fines for penalties doesn't change the inherent nature of giant men violently crashing into other giant men.

 

[Draxal]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page...10719_virginia_tech_helmet_study&sportCat=nfl

I apologize for linking to a Gregg Easterbrook story, but it's actually a good read on the subject of NFL helmets (players were using the VSR4 until 2010), I think this might of changed in 2011 when they switched to the more modern Revolution helmet.

 

[Lonestar]

Whoa, went out to lunch, come back to Junior suicide?

 

[Futurevoid]

Update:

Joe Schad ‏ @schadjoe

Police department spokesperson confirms Junior Seau died of gunshot wound to chest and it is a suicide investigation

Schefter is retweeting the same.

 

[Trey]

So yeah, the NHL has its own concussion controversy going on, but they're not taking it anywhere near as seriously as the NFL.

The pressure isn't on them as much as it is the NFL for a variety of reasons. Hopefully they answer the call sooner than when the pot boils.

 

[Gigglepoo]

How much does the NFL spend on helmet R&D, dont leave it to the manufactures, the league should do it themselves. Since lineman seem the most effected, maybe they could develop a harness system/neck brace like NASCAR drives have to wear. OL dont need much head mobility. How about pads that absorb the energy of impacts and dont transmit it to the player being hit. There is a ton the NFL could do if they actually cared and were not just posturing for lawsuits.

I imagine the NFL is scared of mandating specific equipment because they would then be liable if a player wears that gear and still gets hurt. I could be wildly offbase, though, but I can't think of another reason the NFL hasn't forced every player to wear the better helmets.

 

[LevelNth]

They banned jarts man, they can ban anything. And like I said it doesn't need to be a ban. They can treat it like MMA or boxing. Regulate the shit out of it, which would have the same eventual effect.

Quite frankly, it is simply too profitable to ban. It will never happen. Regulate, sure. But it will be smoke and mirrors, appeasing non-profits and protesters as much as needed.

We live in an ever increasingly violent world dominated by money and escapism. Grown men willingly participating and dying young due to concussions has as much hope of stopping football as third world individuals dying of malnutrition and unhealthy working conditions will stop Western labor outsourcing.

 

[BankaiZaraki]

Man this sucks. RIP to a great legend at his position ((((((((

 

[krzy123]

http://stonephillipsreports.com/wp-...02/Head-Impact-Exposure-in-Youth-Football.pdf

They're gonna be expanding this study in the fall ...


updated 2012 helmet study

http://www.sbes.vt.edu/nid

 

[Big Baybee]

Yes and no.

The NHL had three high-profile deaths last summer of former enforcers - Rick Rypien of the Vancouver Canucks, Derek Boogaard of the NY Rangers, and Wade Belak of the Nashville Predators. All three had struggles with depression, Rypien being the most public as he'd taken considerable amounts of time off from the team during his tenure with Vancouver to deal with things. Of the three, Belak and Rypien committed suicide, while Boogard died of a drug overdose.

Also overshadowing the concussion discussion in the NHL - the league's poster boy, Sidney Crosby. Gone for most of the year with sever post concussion symptoms, you literally couldn't go two days over the past 11 months without sue sort of update/conjecture on radio and television as to when or if he would return to the game.

Taking all that into account, the league disciplinarian Brendan Shanahan pledged to make suspensions stiffer for headshots coming into this season, and to his credit, he did at first. But as the season progressed, suspensions became more and more lax until we were basically right back where we started. See this and this for examples that should have been treated more seriously, but either were given a minimal suspension or none at all.

It wasn't until the hue and cry about hockey violence in the playoffs got into the mainstream press that Shanahan did anything even close to the bar he'd set in the preseason, hitting multiple-offender Raffi Torres with a 25 game suspension for this hit on Marian Hossa. Basically a slam dunk made on severity of the injury as opposed to actual intent - it was arguably a good hockey play that went OTT.

So yeah, the NHL has its own concussion controversy going on, but they're not taking it anywhere near as seriously as the NFL.

Thanks for this post. Shhhhiiiit at those hits.

Aww man, the scene at Juniors house is so fucking sad. Can't watch. His mom :-(

 

[LevelNth]

...it was arguably a good hockey play that went OTT.

Get out with this, no way in hell was it remotely. He jumped 6 inches in the air and dropped his shoulder square into Hossa's head.

Not the first time Torres has done the exact same stunt either. He's a punk and a cancer, and it's the not the game that's causing these injuries, it's primarily the attitude of punk players like him and James Harrison in the NFL IMO.

 

[methodman]

Damn, really sucks about Seau. RIP.

 

[The Frankman]

RIP Junior Seau...

 

[BankaiZaraki]

I'm happy about the suspensions of said players today also. They deserve it. Also, I applaud the Bucs for the Legrand signing today. Truly a class act.

 

[eznark]

Thinking about hockey, I'd much rather see the NHL go to a no checking league than try to regulate "blows to the head" like NCAA does. It's fucking awful and has really ruined the game.

 

[dschalter]

Get out with this, no way in hell was it remotely. He jumped 6 inches in the air and dropped his shoulder square into Hossa's head.

Not the first time Torres has done the exact same stunt either. He's a punk and a cancer, and it's the not the game that's causing these injuries, it's primarily the attitude of punk players like him and James Harrison in the NFL IMO.

I think that the problem with non-line players is that hurtling yourself into opposing players at top speed is considered acceptable (and manly to boot), when it is ridiculously dangerous. Players like Harrison are the worst offenders, but not the only ones. When it comes to the head injuries of line players though, that has more to do with the basic nature of the game.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

Just heard about Junior Seau.

R.I.P.

 

[Revenant]

Thinking about hockey, I'd much rather see the NHL go to a no checking league than try to regulate "blows to the head" like NCAA does. It's fucking awful and has really ruined the game.

you'd really want to watch no check hockey?

just curious on this since you're the first fan i've heard that's even considered it

 

[WesternHeretic]

If it is indeed a suicide that will be a complete shocker to me. Just doesn't seem like a dude who would do that.

 

[TheLegendary]

RIP Junior Seau...

Tone Loc?

 

[Revenant]

It wasn't until the hue and cry about hockey violence in the playoffs got into the mainstream press that Shanahan did anything even close to the bar he'd set in the preseason, hitting multiple-offender Raffi Torres with a 25 game suspension for this hit on Marian Hossa. Basically a slam dunk made on severity of the injury as opposed to actual intent - it was arguably a good hockey play that went OTT.

So yeah, the NHL has its own concussion controversy going on, but they're not taking it anywhere near as seriously as the NFL.

you really think that was a borderline clean hockey play?

 

[Sanjuro]

The NFL and NHL are both in the same boat at the moment. NHL seems to be a larger issue because much of the national attention (in the states) is focused on the concussion situation, where the NFL has various topics covering it's behemoth size.

Ultimately they are both stuck in the position of "We need to do more" and that mindset is nothing more than a PR move unless they alter the game. Chris Nowinski is going to be very busy this year.

 

[LJ11]

you really think that was a borderline clean hockey play?

If he stays on his feet, and gets there about half a second earlier it probably is a clean hit, and yet I don't think the result would've been any different, Hossa would've probably been knocked out.

 

[anddo0]

R.I.P. Junior Seau. Just saw this on Yahoo front page. Very sad

 

[Big Baybee]

If he stays on his feet, and gets there about half a second earlier it probably is a clean hit, and yet I don't think the result would've been any different, Hossa would've probably been knocked out.

That hit was on some Hines Ward shit.

 

[Revenant]

If he stays on his feet, and gets there about half a second earlier it probably is a clean hit, and yet I don't think the result would've been any different, Hossa would've probably been knocked out.

but that completely changes the hit. Yes if we change those things that would make it a clean hit, but we could take a lot of plays like that in hockey and say, well hey, if he only didn't do that illegal thing that would have been clean!

Hossa would have taking a licking for sure though, but if he hits him shoulder to shoulder I don't think he's taken off on a stretcher.

 

[bjb]

Damn this sucks. Hopefully there's backstory on his recent health or mind-set.

What a tragic story.