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NHL lockout news; Crosby draft plan; Memorial Cup

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calder

Member
A solid week of negotiating and, more importantly, the NHL and NHLPA both not saying much has a wee bit of cautious optimism going around about the lockout maybe ending. Bob McKenzie is at least a teensy bit less-pessimistic than normal.
5/20/2005

Maybe it's the cockeyed optimism you get on the Friday of a long weekend, but for the first time since this labour brouhaha started last September, I get the sense that a deal is going to get done, and sooner rather than later.

Whether that makes it days or weeks away, who knows for sure? But for the first time, really, there seems to be a sense of inevitability about it.

That isn't to say there isn't the potential for problems. This whole process is like walking through a field of landmines and until an agreement is signed, sealed and delivered, nothing is for sure.

And that isn't to say there won't be some blow-ups along the way. That, too, is part of the process.

But four consecutive days of meetings, including two long sessions on Thursday and Friday, have generated a degree of momentum on which they can build.

But as encouraging as the frequency and length of meetings were, the real reason it looks as though we're finally on our way to getting this solved is simply that it's time.

There are going to be all sorts of mixed messages -- progress, no progress -- coming from the principals, but on this you can be certain: many players are telling NHLPA boss Bob Goodenow to get a deal done and get it done now so to as allow for a properly-launched resumption of play in the fall.

Now, Goodenow's nature is not to roll over and play dead, and he won't do that. He'll no doubt grind the NHL wherever and whenever he can, but it certainly doesn't appear he's in a position to pull the plug on negotiations or shut things down.

The desire to get this deal done, and done ASAP, seems to be at an all-time high. Both sides realize to not get it done within the next month would have a huge negative impact on everyone's bottom line for next season.

Logic, it would appear, has finally taken over. But on that, one supposes we'll have to wait to see it's not fool's gold and the cockeyed optimism of a Friday of the long weekend.

Let's hope anyway.

Also, reports of a potential way the NHL is going to draft the players who would have been drafted earlier this year had the season not been wiped out. In other words, who gets Sidney Crosby.
waymoresports KEN CAMPBELL

The Maple Leafs would have a 1.7 per cent chance of landing Sidney Crosby under the NHL's proposed lottery system for the next entry draft, while the New York Rangers would be one of two teams with the best shot of getting the junior superstar.

Multiple sources say the league's board of governors has in place the framework of a system that will allow each of the NHL's 30 teams a chance at the first overall pick in the next draft and the opportunity to select Crosby, who will be at the Memorial Cup with his Rimouski Oceanic in London starting Saturday.

The proposed system would skew the lottery in favour of teams that have finished out of the playoffs in the past four seasons and not had the first overall selection in any of the past four entry drafts.

Nothing has been passed by the board of governors and isn't expected to be for some time, but it's believed the lottery will work like this:

* Each team starts with four balls in the lottery.

* Teams lose a ball for each year they qualified for the playoffs in the past four seasons.

* Teams also lose a ball if they have had the first overall selection in any of the past four drafts.

* Each team is guaranteed at least one ball.

Under that system, there would be a total of 60 balls in the lottery. The Leafs, along with 12 other teams, would have just one chance, giving them a 1.7 per cent likelihood of winning the lottery.

The Rangers and Columbus Blue Jackets would be the only teams in the league to have four balls in the lottery, giving them each a 6.7 per cent chance of winning.


The Blue Jackets had the first overall pick in the 2002 draft and selected Rick Nash, but they traded up for that pick with the Florida Panthers so that pick is assigned to Florida.

`The attitude of the large market teams is that they're going to be losing some revenues to small markets, so they want some kind of a chance (at Sidney Crosby)'

If Crosby were to go to the Rangers, it would be an enormous marketing opportunity for the league, which will almost certainly need all the help it can get after a lockout that could stretch into next season.

Sources say the draft order would be reversed each round, meaning the team that picked first overall would have the last selection in the second round.

The system likely won't be put into place officially until a collective bargaining agreement is reached with the players, but one league general manager said revenue sharing would be key to the lottery.

"If there is a system of revenue sharing, and I'd be shocked if there weren't, that's the way it will be," he said. "The attitude of the large market teams is that they're going to be losing some revenues to small markets, so they want some kind of a chance (at Crosby)."

But the proposed deal is sure to draw the ire of the more successful teams, such as the Maple Leafs, who would have shared a 3.3 per cent chance of getting Crosby with the 29 other teams in the league if each team were given a 1in30 chance.

Meanwhile, the Leafs are expected to be more involved in discussions with Crosby's agent after the Memorial Cup about the possibility of him signing with the new Toronto Marlies of the American Hockey League if the lockout extends into next season.

AHL president Dave Andrews said yesterday there is nothing in the league's bylaws preventing a team from signing Crosby.

"Sidney Crosby is going to play where Sidney Crosby and his agent decide he's going to play," Andrews said. "Any player who has reached the age of 18 by Sept. 15 is eligible to play in our league if he is appropriately under contract."

The NHL's agreement with the Canadian Hockey League stipulates players in junior hockey must either play in the NHL or in major junior, but that agreement has expired.

Crosby's standard players' contract also stipulates that he must play junior hockey until he either plays in the NHL or his junior eligibility expires, but it has been widely expected Crosby will be allowed to leave the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League after this season for either Europe or the AHL.

Meanwhile, Crosby signed a $2.5 million (U.S.) deal to endorse Reebok's hockey line and it's doubtful that Reebok would want him playing in Moscow or Stockholm instead of Toronto. Len Rhodes, vice-president, marketing for The Hockey Company and Reebok Canada, said the company would have no input on where Crosby ends up.

"We haven't had any discussions with him or his agent in terms of where we would prefer him to play," Rhodes said. "We know that because of the fact he's a superstar, whatever league he plays in will want to showcase him. We want him to play where he gets the maximum exposure within a hockey market. Toronto is definitely is a true hockey market."
Crosby goes to Leafs = me drinking hemlock on live webcam. But the proposed draft system seems almost bizarrely fair - and to think it comes from the NHL. It even acknowledges revenue sharing! ;)


Finally, the Memorial Cup is on and if the first game tonight (Sid and his Oceanic team vs a n offensively stacked London Knights team with Perry, Fritsche and Schremp ) is any indication it might be the best hockey this year. A great game so far, it's tied 3-3 with plenty of chances, good saves and big hits.
 

Pochacco

asking dangerous questions
Fuck the NHL.
The douches have had YEARS to work something out, anything - but haven't.

With that said, seeing Crosby go to the Rangers would be hilarious.
 

Memles

Member
To those who live in *Insert City Where Crosby Gets Drafted To* and who are not die hard fans of your local hockey team, feel free to contact me at any time for support and assistance in these trying times. I feel your pain on a daily basis; soon, we will be together in our plight.
 

ShadowRed

Banned
Question for the hockey fans? Why doesn't someone start a new league? Start everything from scratch. Yeah the money won't be as good as it was with the NHL, at first, but it's better than sitting onthe sidelines not getting paid at all. Plus the league would probably grow fast as their wouldn't be any compitition from the NHL.
 

Boogie

Member
ShadowRed said:
Question for the hockey fans? Why doesn't someone start a new league? Start everything from scratch. Yeah the money won't be as good as it was with the NHL, at first, but it's better than sitting onthe sidelines not getting paid at all. Plus the league would probably grow fast as their wouldn't be any compitition from the NHL.

WHA?

:lol :lol :lol
 

Socreges

Banned
I've been watching the Rimouski/London game on and off. It's sloppy hockey, but pretty exciting. Mostly thanks to Crosby and Perry. I'll probably continue watching the series.

Just about in OT. Tune in if you're not watching already.


Mike Works said:
Honestly, if the Leafs get Crosby, I'm quitting the NHL.
:lol I feel you.
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
WOW WOW WOW WOW what a game. End to end all the way, and the OT winner was sweet. Figures that the Knights' most defensive-minded d-man would score on a Rimouski breakdown. That comeback had Dale Hunter's gritty style written all over it.

As far the the NHL and PA getting their act together, I've had my hopes raised and dashed too many times to pay much mind to this round of talks. If it happens - and if we get a sensible revenue sharing rider added - then great. Somebody give me a call when it goes down, but I refuse to pay it any more mind.

Crosby to the Leafs? Another hemlock shot over here, barkeep.
 

Rocket9

Member
Everyone knows that Crosby will go to the worst possible NHL market, and by that I mean the Carolina Hurricanes.

No offense but contracting that joke of a franchise, along with Florida and 2 more, would make the NHL so much better.

Anyway, London wins in OT, amazing games. Sooooo much better than the meaningless tournament last week
 

Malakhov

Banned
That draft plan is horrible, I don't even want the good teams having a small chance of landing Crosby. It would be AWFUL to see Crosby going to a team like Detroit, philadelphia, ottawa, colorado etc..

I say take the points of the last 4 or so seasons and then do the standings with that and do as usual.
 

Malakhov

Banned
I have a feeling this draft is gonna get rigged and this whole talk of "Crosy can land anywhere, everyone has a chance!" is just Bettman wanting Crosby to go to a place like New York for example, not for a team like Nashville.
 

FightyF

Banned
* Each team is guaranteed at least one ball.

That's absolutely insane! In a bad way, of course.

I'm not a big fan of how the draft is done currently, mainly because near the end of a season teams purposely lose games in order try to improve their chances. That totally ruins many "make the playoffs" attempts by the 6th-10th teams.

But to give EVERY team the chance to get teh #1 Draft pick...doesn't make sense to me. I think it makes sense to disqualify some teams from being able to get it. Perhaps any team that does make it to the playoffs should be disqualified. Then again maybe some teams know that any playoff run would be short lived and then throw games so they CAN'T make it to the playoffs...
 

Socreges

Banned
You guys know how quickly some teams can make the playoffs one year, and then struggle near the bottom the next. Additionally, we've got a year in between, where some of the players developed, and the rest regressed. To cut off teams from a high pick (and a good chance at Crosby) just because they were contenders in 03/04 and then have them squander in 05/06 (should it happen) would be completely unfair. Meanwhile a young team that HAD struggled turns it around, makes some acquisitions, has a good chance at Crosby (either gets him or doesn't), and makes the playoffs with ease. That WILL be a reality. That said, I don't particularly like this system, but I don't have any better ideas. Crosby landing in a huge spectacle like New York would have its benefits, but so too would him playing for a smaller market like Columbus. Meanwhile you're giving each team some chance, however remote, at grabbing him, and protecting somewhat against crappy teams that already have huge prospects.
 

Socreges

Banned
Malakhov said:
Yes like top teams like Detroit, Colorado, Sens, Lightning etc.. are gonna struggle next season :lol
Why? Why? You know I wasn't at all implying that.

Should the owners go through each team, consider every one and their special circumstances individually, and distribute the odds based on their results? Or should we screw those that WILL fall flat, just so the handful of dynasty teams don't have a 1.7% shot each at picking Crosby?
 

Malakhov

Banned
Yep, I'd prefer we go that way. Like I said, I don't want these teams to have ANY chance of landing crosby be it even a 1% chance.
 
Socreges said:
One can dream...
Oh man, if we actually had Crosby, Naslund, Bertuzzi, Morrison, Jovanovski, Ohlund, and the Sedins... we'd be so good, it'd be even more of a letdown when we realize that we don't have a goalie that can get us to the conference final!

farnsworth01.jpg


A man can dream, though. A man can dream.
 

Shinobi

Member
ShadowRed said:
Question for the hockey fans? Why doesn't someone start a new league? Start everything from scratch. Yeah the money won't be as good as it was with the NHL, at first, but it's better than sitting onthe sidelines not getting paid at all. Plus the league would probably grow fast as their wouldn't be any compitition from the NHL.

wha.jpg








fallout said:
Don't worry, he'd start winning them too many games and he'd have to be traded.

:lol Sad but true...

Crosby better go to a team or market that's actually legit. Last thing the NHL needs is a Dan Heatley going to Atlanta, or Rick Nash going to fucking Columbus (though to their credit the franchise itself is solid). So if Cros lands here, then good for them, good for the league, and good for me. But he'll go to New York, as Ewing did twenty years ago under er, dubious circumstances.

The league got shut down because of these false as fuck markets anyway, so fuck 'em...let the big teams get their chance at the Cros.
 
I think the Oilers have a pretty damn good future ahead of them.
Marc-Antoine Pouliot and Robbie Schremp are looking like great picks.



The Internet
 
The Internet said:
I think the Oilers have a pretty damn good future ahead of them.
Marc-Antoine Pouliot and Robbie Schremp are looking like great picks.



The Internet
Yeah, they'll make great future additions to American teams that have actual payrolls.

"Edmonton Oilers. The NHL's farm team."
 

calder

Member
3-0 for the KNights, about halfway through the game. I was talking to my dad last night and he predicted it wouldn't be close - anyone who watched the semi's knows that the Oceanic team D and goaltending are suspect at best. The Knights are skilled as anyone but they have the ability to shut down the opposition the Oceanic just don't Still like to see Rimouski get more chances, they play such an entertaining brand of hockey it would make for a great 3rd period if they were only down by 1 or 2.

I'm not really cheering for either team - I think it would be nice to see Crosby and the Oceanic win it just to reward their "anything but the trap" system, but the Knights are just as good and it would be nice to see them win it all at home in a town that truly loves their team.


Oh, and +1 Crosby :D
Sidney Crosby makes no secret of the fact he is a Montreal Canadiens fan. A lifelong fan.

And if all the ping pong balls somehow bounce his way in an eventual NHL lottery to determine first pick for an eventual draft, Crosby would like nothing better than to play for the team he has grown up loving.

"That would be his dream," said Troy Crosby, his father, also a longtime Habs can.

And what about the Leafs, we found ourselves asking?

"When you like Montreal, the one team you don't like is the blue and white," said Crosby's dad. "He'd go to Toronto, but I can tell you, he wouldn't be happy about it."

Damn I want the meatheads to get a CBA done *so badly* because next year is going to fucking rock. Rule tweaks, goalie equipment cut back a fair bit (though not nearly enough, check out how incredibly puffy the goalies in the Mem Cup are, it's a total joke how these skinny 6'1" kids have their torso literally bulked up to 3 times it's normal size through their gear), old guys gone and a whole new generation of young players set to step up, all the signings and trades that will happen as teams adjust to a new financial system - it's all going to be sweet. Hockey fans might grumble a bit but most will be back from game 1. I even promise to not bitch too much about the shootout.
 
Is that the draft scenario for the just the first pick, or will all slots 1-30 be decided via drawing balls from that pool of 60?

Also, if the entire draft order is decided via this lottery, I heard that from round to round the picks would snake...so the team with the 30th pick in round 1 gets the first pick in round 2, etc.

Anyone know if that is part of the plan?
 

PS2 KID

Member
Found this at ESPN

Report: Giuliani to create new hockey league?

Business plan circulated among Wall Street


TORONTO -- It appears "America's Mayor" wants to help hockey.

The Toronto Star reported Wednesday that former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani and leading Canadian diplomat Maurice Strong may join forces to create a new hockey league if the NHL continues its lockout, which wiped out the entire 2004-05 season.

According to a 71-page business plan reviewed by the newspaper and circulated to prospective Wall Street investors, the new league -- tentatively called the International Hockey Association -- would rely on Giuliani's New York consulting company to help raise as much as $5 billion in seed money.

Giuliani became known as "America's Mayor" after he held New York together in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

NHL Players Association senior director Ted Saskin has confirmed that several groups have approached the union proposing alternative options.

"Most of these groups have made these proposals on a confidential basis and the NHLPA will not be commenting on them," Saskin told the Toronto Star. "Our primary focus has always been to reach an agreement with the NHL on a new CBA."

The NHL and the Players Association will resume labor negotiations Wednesday and Thursday in Toronto.

Commissioner Gary Bettman canceled the 2004-05 campaign on Feb. 16, making the NHL the first major North American sports league to have an entire season canceled due to a labor dispute.

After convening with the NHL's Board of Governors in April, Bettman announced the league would not resume play until a CBA was in place, erasing the belief replacement players would be used for the 2005-06 campaign.

In March, the league officially canceled the 2005 draft, which was slated to take place in Ottawa in June.
 

AB 101

Banned
Fans piss and moan during a lockout/strike and then go rah rah when play resumes.

Fans should boycott games and hit the teams/players where it hurts.

They just assume fans will come back in droves.

Fuck the NHL, MLB, etc.

Fans have power but they do not want to use it.

I have not paid a cent to watch a pro event for, oh, probably the last 10 years now.

Fuck 'em.
 

Tedesco!

Member
In one sense I share your sentiment, but in all honesty I doubt all fans will stay away. There will be some who will feel burnt by the greed and stay away; I say good for them. I wish I could, but I know I won't; I just like the sport so damned much.

I will say what really pissed me off (other than the whole season going to shit) was that I was supposed to see the Leafs play the Bluejackets back in December. It's hard being a Leafs fan in Cincinnati, harder still when your team only comes to the state every other year. Now I'm going to probably have to wait until 2007 to see them again. Fuckers! Maybe they'll use last year's schedule.....
 

Rocket9

Member
Fans have been moaning for years because the salaries were ridiculous and the high budget had a huge unfair advantage

Now the NHL finally do something the problem and fans still moan because they missed of the sport they promised to boycott the last couple of years.

They did what they had to do. It was a lockout or the death of the NHL in the not so far future. Stop complaining and take it like a man, a year without pro hockey is not the end of the world
 

Shinobi

Member
AB 101 said:
Fans piss and moan during a lockout/strike and then go rah rah when play resumes.

Fans should boycott games and hit the teams/players where it hurts.

They just assume fans will come back in droves.

Fuck the NHL, MLB, etc.

Fans have power but they do not want to use it.

I have not paid a cent to watch a pro event for, oh, probably the last 10 years now.

Fuck 'em.

I assume this includes not buying licensed sports games right?

I view sports as I view most other things...enjoyable to watch, despite the bullshit it's buried in. The same is true for games, music, movies...virtually every entertainment industry is filled to the brim with bullshit, so you can either choose to go without and bore yourself to death, or you can get yours and realize the bullshit is part of the deal.

As far as the NHL goes, I couldn't care less what it's business model is like...I've watched far less of the game the last five years because it became boring as fuck to watch. Until they fix how the game is played, none of these economic fixes will mean a hill of shit.
 

DJ_Tet

Banned
Rocket9 said:
Fans have been moaning for years because the salaries were ridiculous and the high budget had a huge unfair advantage

Now the NHL finally do something the problem and fans still moan because they missed of the sport they promised to boycott the last couple of years.

They did what they had to do. It was a lockout or the death of the NHL in the not so far future. Stop complaining and take it like a man, a year without pro hockey is not the end of the world



Good man. Hockey fans, be strong. Your sport is the first to go through this reconstruction of salaries, but it won't be the last.
 

calder

Member
They won't make the nets bigger, but thank god the smaller goalie equipment is a go. I don't think they go far enough, but it's a good step. Like I said earlier in the thread, when you see Major Junior goalies warmup you realize just how bloody absurd modern goalie gear is.

Just to show I don't play favourites, one of the NHL goalies with clearly oversized equipment:
miikka_4808.jpg

Miikka is a fairly tall but skinny fucker, and all the feather-light padding gives him the advantage of being a quick, nimble guy with a huge cross-section in every dimension that doesn't hinder him with extra weight. I'd say that when a goalie is in his normal stance his equipment and oversized jersey add 3x the area to his normal body (just torso, pants and arms, ignoring the legs and blocker/glove), and to me that's not what equipment is for. The padding should be to protect the player from injury, not stop the puck (again ignoring the obvious exceptions).
 

Shinobi

Member
Heh, it's so true...you could probably clean the ice with Giguere's pads in less time then it'd take with the Zamboni. :lol
 
Shinobi said:
Heh, it's so true...you could probably clean the ice with Giguere's pads in less time then it'd take with the Zamboni. :lol
I dunno, Giguere's pads would cover more surface area, but Kiprusoff would just be quicker since it would take him under a second to flop to the ice.
 
Don't forget Luongo. Met that guy at the Training Camp here in Calgary a couple of months back, the guy is like a TWIG. Seriously, he was so skinny that even the little kids were saying how skinny he was. He seriously looked anorexic compared to Marty Turco and Marty Brodeur.

The guy fills up the net with his gear on.

But yeah, those Garth Snow modified shoulder pads were the funniest things i've ever seen on a goalie. I don't think they really went after him too much because he was still only a below average goalie at best.


The Internet
 

fallout

Member
While I agree that decreasing the size of goalie gear will help increase the number of goals (duh), I don't think it's going to have such a huge impact on the game. I'm probably saying shit that's been repeated a thousand times (by myself, most likely), but more goals != more action. I'm just as impressed by a kick-ass save as I am a sweet goal. In fact, whenever the puck is around the net and shit is happening, I'm usually on the edge of my seat anyway, so I don't think that's where the huge problem is.
 

Shinobi

Member
Yeah, the net and the goalie equipment is a small part of the problem. The flow of the game is what needs to be addressed...teams on the offense need to be able to skate without being groped by gloves and sticks all the way down the ice. Simply seeing more goals scored with the current brand of hockey that's been put on display the last few years just isn't good enough for me.
 

DJ_Tet

Banned
As a non-NHL fan, I think Olympic-sized rinks really opens up the game. I'd love to see the NHL adopt larger rink sizes, and smaller goalie equipment. That combined with the dawn of HDTV so I can finally see the puck and nuances of the sport would draw new fans I think.
 

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
Mike Works said:
seriously you fucking americans take the god damn chicken wings out of your eyes
Come on, it's hard for them to follow a black puck on white ice that always on the screen. :lol
 
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