Yep really good stuff.
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NHL Lockout With Your Cock Out |OT|
- Thread starter Marvie_3
- Start date
Not really. AHL goalies > Leafs goalies
SpectreFire
Member
go fkc som whotes
The Internet
Member
How so? Barely. Alot of the great players I see on the Heat will never play an NHL game. They are a great squad, kind of like Hershey who won back to back Calder Cups and didnt have a single bonafide name. I want your hopes up big time after this weekend, what I saw through my unbiased copper goggles was that the OKC NHL'ers were a step above, anyone in comparison on the Heat side were Baertschi and Horak..agree?
Dastardly Jerks
Banned
Yeah, the STACKED BARONS have really showed how NHL-level they are. They're so above the AHL that they can't even play at their level.
They'll try to deface him and negotiations will shut down. But it's not like they can unseat him. That will only happen after months of players building up frustration, I think.
SuperSonic1305
Member
Scrivens was the best goalie in the AHL last season. Paradox
Surprise twist: Scrivens isn't a goalie.
I give it 10 more minutes until Fehr takes a dump on the floor then dances across the table like this:
I don't think the players would've brought Fehr in for any other reason than to "win" this time. It's clear it's about winning. They feel like they took it on the chin last time and they're not going to this time. I don't think they'll unseat Fehr. I think the players are way more unified than they were last lockout.
Way to go NHLPA
So then how does this get done (months from now)? You think the owners are going to be the ones to make the big compromise?
Why the fuck do they meet for that kind of crap? If you know nothing will come out of it, then why don't you take a pair of days so things cool down and ideas/proposals start flowing again? All they're doing is walking in circles around a fresh pile of shit that doesn't make the journey any more pleasant.
BigJonsson
Member
Because working on a deal for next year will somehow magically happen if they cancel this season?
I like that you cherry picked the one article you could find about the NHL being hardasses in negotiations and ignored the many that describe the level of unprofessional behavior from the NHLPA.
The fact is, the NHLPA brought this shit on themselves. The NHL has at least moved closer towards a compromise. The NHLPA has done nothing but act like a bunch of fucking babies with Fehr as their unprofessional ringleader. The NHLPA has refused to budge and consistently brought worthless proposals to the table that don't even begin to come close to a compromise. The NHL shoots down these ridiculous proposals and Fehr rushes right out to the media to whine about how the league is unwilling to negotiate. This bullshit from the NHLPA is insulting and I can't blame the NHL one bit for wanting to fucking crush the union at this point. If the other side is completely unwilling to engage in serious negotiations, then why the fuck should you bend to them at all?
If they cancelled it now, negotiations wouldn't start back up until next summer at the earliest.
BigJonsson
Member
The NHLPA could have taken the NHL's offer to start this process after the all star break last year but noooooooo
KingHenrik30
Member
Who gives a shit fuck them both.
Then they couldn't whine about the NHL being unwilling to negotiate.
I just want them to stop giving fans false hope at this point that a deal could get worked out and have a shortened season.
Of course they didn't- just so they can have Sidney Crosby cry in front of a camera yesterday over 3 weeks of wasted negotiations (did that yesterday) even though the NHLPA wasted 10 months of negotiating time-and they STILL haven't really started negotiating. Sitting at a table and saying mmm mmhmm and then vomiting out the same proposal as their first does not count. Seriously. Their last economic proposal NHLPA did was exactly the same as their first. 57% +5% increase every year.
I'm not sure, but I don't see the players backing down like they did last time. Again, I think that's the reason they brought Fehr on in the first place.
I think it could get really, really messy. Like cancelled season and PA putting the salary cap on the table messy.
NHL's "concessions" all smoke and mirrors, I guess?
Fuck both sides. These lost games are already such a waste and to flush a whole season down the drain would be criminal.
SpectreFire
Member
If that's what they want, to ruin the NHL, then fuck them. They can go fuck themselves overseas while we replace their greedy asses with players who are more than willing to play a game for millions of dollars a year.
lolno
The NHL was willing to concede things before. With Fehr pulling all this bullshit, I can't blame them for losing patience and pulling things back off the table.
Damn right.
If you think putting the salary cap on the table will help their cause, it won't.
NHL will take bold steps, such as disbanding the NHL and making a new league - where in initial charter they can put stern caps on how salary is defined from revenue before it hits the CBA process the other initial step is scabs- they should do this by selection from where the teams are located- that would make things VERY interesting.
Point is, NHL will win, if it wants. NHLPA will lose all their contracts and a lot of players will never play again. This will lead to a massive revolt where NHLPA members will throw fehr in the mud and sue the hell out of him for taking $1.8 billion in contracts and making them worth $0
I don't have quite the same attitude as you. While I blame both sides, I don't think the players should just accept any deal the NHL puts in front of them. I feel like Bettman and the owners (Jacobs especially) feel like because they squeezed last time and the PA broke that they can do it again this time. I believe that the league is absolutely as much to blame for the current situation, if not more. I feel like the "make whole" olive branch is nothing more than PR. I don't think they're negotiating in good faith. I think they're hoping to divide the PA just like they did last time so they can roll over them to get what they want.
What exactly have they been willing to concede?
It has been "we need you to go from 57 to 50% now, we need the contracting issues to go 100% our way, and we'll 'make you whole' by paying you out of your own salaries."
I'm frustrated just like everyone else, but I find the overwhelming sentiment here of "fuck the union, they should just accept whatever garbage offer the NHL throws at them" as a little disturbing. I don't feel as if either side is negotiating in good faith. The NHL is trying to divide and conquer and the PA is holding firm saying "fuck you".
Until both sides come together with the realization that a lost season will help neither side nothing will get done, and it appears as if that isn't happening anytime soon through the fault of both sides.
Oh, if only it were that easy...This is such a narrow minded, unrealistic view of things. The NHL needs the players. People may watch scabs at first, but it wouldn't have staying power.
SpectreFire
Member
As long as people who make millions of dollars of years playing a game complain about not making enough money to sustain their making I'm going to continue to tell them to fuck off. They have zero right to complain about not making enough when millions of more deserving people working considerably harder jobs and getting paid considering less aren't being nearly as bitchy about it.
I am sick and tired of idiots like Toews saying how everything's not fair, and how they;re being worked like slaves.
So essentially, your view is they should shut up and accept any deal the NHL tables to them because they make millions playing hockey?
CrazedArabMan
Member
NeoGAF NHL team is closer to reality!!!
Just to clarify, I'm not pro-players. I think both sides are to blame equally and I'm pissed off at the entire situation. When I debate something here, though, it'll likely seem I'm pro-player because there is such an overwhelming sense of animosity towards the PA side around here.
Just because CCF doesn't understand this process
It started off at 47% for players under new HRR
NHL is now offering 50% by the third year under old HRR
NHL has shifted position on almost everything
We know one of them they won't is back-diving contracts
We also know another is contract length
There is one more, but we don't know what it is, possibly the ELC or RFA period
The league also would be covering with make whole out of the majority of the NHLs money (it was only one year- not the full contract)
Either way, nhl stated their starting terms and the NHLPA stated their starting terms
The idea of negotiating these is to meet somewhere in the middle, and especially how badly the NHL is doing in terms of profit, they need to win.
NHL has still moved in the players direction, players haven't moved at all- so it seems. Especially in regards to how much the players earn. 57% is beyond stupid, 50% is still higher than the 3 other leagues.
The nhl is sick, the NHLPA is the disease.
Oh it is that easy
And it will have staying power, as once the draft gets stars a couple years down the line, who gives a shit about the other guys?
I don't want to watch people who play for the money, I watch people for the glory.
It started off at 47% for players under new HRR
NHL is now offering 50% by the third year under old HRR
NHL has shifted position on almost everything
We know one of them they won't is back-diving contracts
We also know another is contract length
There is one more, but we don't know what it is, possibly the ELC or RFA period
The league also would be covering with make whole out of the majority of the NHLs money (it was only one year- not the full contract)
Either way, nhl stated their starting terms and the NHLPA stated their starting terms
The idea of negotiating these is to meet somewhere in the middle, and especially how badly the NHL is doing in terms of profit, they need to win.
NHL has still moved in the players direction, players haven't moved at all- so it seems. Especially in regards to how much the players earn. 57% is beyond stupid, 50% is still higher than the 3 other leagues.
The nhl is sick, the NHLPA is the disease.
Oh it is that easy
And it will have staying power, as once the draft gets stars a couple years down the line, who gives a shit about the other guys?
I don't want to watch people who play for the money, I watch people for the glory.
SpectreFire
Member
No, I think they should be reasonable when going to the negotiations table and be aware of the fact that they ARE millionaires playing a sport. The constant whiney and entitlement is clouding their ability to realize that no one feels sympathy for them.
If the recent news are any indication, they don't want to be fair at all. They think they deserve to make what they're making and they want more on top of that, despite the fact that NHL revenue will all but likely go down next season because of the lockout.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
I want to give my money to a hockey league but they make it so hard to take my money.
We need to get your 90/10 split idea going.
No shortage of good hockey here in the northern part of the continent. NCAA, USHL, CHL, AHL, etc.
Oh, how nice of the NHL to move from its fucking ridiculous initial HRR offer. The PA has also moved from their fucking ridiculous initial HRR offer. Neither side is where they need to be, but the PA is definitely closer. If the NHL isn't going to pay for every penny of contracts they signed then getting to 50% should absolutely be weighted to the players side in the first couple years of the new deal. The NHL wants to go to 50/50 immediately in an attempt to save already dying franchises without changing revenue sharing so that the financially viable teams actually help out the teams in trouble. It's essentially "hey, these teams are dying so we need to go to 50/50 now, fuck your contracts we signed you to, and our wealthy teams want to keep lining their pockets, so you're paying for these franchises on life support."
NHL hasn't budged on player contracting rights.
The players have a right to the contracts they signed under the old CBA. How the fuck could you say the Minnesota Wild negotiated in good faith with Zach Parise or Ryan Suter when signing them to those deals only to have them rolled back months later? The players need to give on HRR, sure, and that's going to happen (they will NOT be at 57% once a CBA is signed), but the NHL also needs to make sure every penny of the contracts signed under the old CBA is paid.
This is fucking ridiculous. The players started out not wanting to take a reduction in HRR at all. Then they outlined a CBA where they'd get there in year 5 and recently outlined a proposal that would get to 50/50 in year 3. They're not where they need to be, but neither is the league. Both sides have moved, neither has moved near enough to get a deal done.
Yes, new league of a sport that's already a fringe sport in most areas using replacement players will just take off.
Also, to the bolded, you might want to stop watching every single god damn professional sports league in the world.
I don't think either side is being reasonable. I don't see why the PA should take all the blame for that. Both sides need to wake the fuck up. I agree, the players need to shut the fuck up during this process, though.
Yep. I put up with it the last few years but I've had enough.