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NHL Lockout With Your Cock Out |OT|

R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
No way Fehr hasn't lost some support from the players with the bullshit he pulled today, especially when they said they wanted to play and he told them to hold out for more.
 
Q

Quick

Banned
Red_Man said:
No way Fehr hasn't lost some support from the players with the bullshit he pulled today, especially when they said they wanted to play and he told them to hold out for more.
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The league actually went into specifics, and Bettman speaking off the cuff was pretty damn honest of him. Pretty much the opposite of what Fehr did. What a dick.

Has this been posted yet? Here's Hainsey, Winnik, and Campoli watching the NHL press conference:

@jessespector said:
A9eXPBmCQAMcbbV.jpg
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"We've made a huge mistake."
 
C

CCF23

Member
I cannot, for the life of me understand why Fehr would hold that fucking press conference knowing full well the NHL was only looking for "yes or no" and had made it clear that their tabled offer was a package deal.

It's mind boggling. He had to have known what happened was going to happen.
 
A

alexthekid

Member
Lets cancel this fucking season and this joke of a league now. Then we can try again next season, without Bettman and without Fehr.

Atleast cancel the shit so Backström can come home!
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
To be fair Dastardly, Getzlaf's balding head must be terrifying to newer guys.

Red_Man said:
If there is a season this year, Bettman will have to wear a suit of armor when he hands out the cup.
Click to expand...

Elliot Friedman said:
All of this is why there is no way Bettman is ever going to be able to present the Stanley Cup once again
Click to expand...
 
V

VALIS

Member
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/nhl_talks_hit_snag_Am5i1SP97ht6pFDPs4cTnN

The commissioner apparently could not understand why the players insisted Fehr be able to rejoin the talks after he and Bettman had been excluded by mutual consent on Tuesday and Wednesday.

The reason is simple. The owners, according to several sources, attempted to pin the players down on agreeing to a CBA, much like an ADA offering a plea bargain to a defendant without representation. "I was told on Wednesday night [by an owner] that if we brought Don back in, that would be a deal-breaker," said Winnipeg Jets defenseman Ron Hainsey, who is part of the NHLPA negotiating committee.
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This turn of events was not unexpected. Neither should anyone overact to it. Bettman and the Board are attempting to reprise the 2004-05 divide-and-conquer strategy that yielded dividends when players overthrew Bob Goodenow.

"We know what they’re up to," a source on the players’ side told The Post. "They’re trying to create dissent within the union. They’re trying to scare us into making a deal."
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Exactly what I said the other day. The whole "let's get Bettman and Fehr out of it" idea was because the league is having trouble undermining Fehr so they want him out of the way.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
CCF23 said:
I cannot, for the life of me understand why Fehr would hold that fucking press conference knowing full well the NHL was only looking for "yes or no" and had made it clear that their tabled offer was a package deal.

It's mind boggling. He had to have known what happened was going to happen.
Click to expand...

He did know. It was a PR stunt to get out there before the owners rejected the deal.
 
K

Kave_Man

come in my shame circle
Socreges said:
I'd really like to think that players will push back against the PA and lessen Fehr's influence.

I'd also like to think that Fehr is now saying/thinking "We went too far! Time to compromise! Hopefully they'll reconsider!"

But I think it's much more likely that each side will remain in their respective corners, sufficiently united, believing that they are in the right, and not enough change will be brought about to reach an agreement. At least not for several months.
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Yup pretty much how I feel about this.

Gentlemen it's time to come over to Team Solo, if you haven't realized it by now you got a long wait ahead.
 
C

CrazedArabMan

Member
VALIS said:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/nhl_talks_hit_snag_Am5i1SP97ht6pFDPs4cTnN





Exactly what I said the other day. The whole "let's get Bettman and Fehr out of it" idea was because the league is having trouble undermining Fehr so they want him out of the way.
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I know right? It wasn't like both sides came out and said they were pretty optimistic and happy about that meeting and then all of a sudden the NHLPA called for Fehr to come back in. Maybe they realized this, "Uh oh, we actually may get a deal done that is somewhat fair, we need to call Fehr back to make sure we HOLD THE LINE and not cave in to these greedy owners who have a decent proposal!!!

Give me a break...

Kave_Man said:
Yup pretty much how I feel about this.

Gentlemen it's time to come over to Team Solo, if you haven't realized it by now you got a long wait ahead.
Click to expand...

AH YEAH!!!

B9Efd.png
 
S

Solo

Member
VALIS said:
That's funny, a couple hours ago I made a post asking if you were a conservative because the only people I know of in all my of NY and Boston area hockey contacts that are pro-owner through all this are hardcore right wing, people who think "job creators" are always entitled to everything and the employees should be happy with whatever the owners deign to give them. The sports fans' insipid version of this logic is, "Gosh! They're lucky to just make money playing a game for a living! I'd do it for $50,000 a year!"

I didn't post it because I thought it was unfair. Turns out I was right, I guess. I mean, you may not be a conservative (or think you are) but you sure are touting one of the core tenets of conservatism.
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lol I'm liberal. Just touting the obvious. Owners will always win sports labor disputes.
 
A

AngmarsKing701

Member
I love hockey but at this point I want the owners to lock this set of players out forever. Can they sign an agreement with a different hockey player's association? I realize that sounds like replacement players, but whatever. I'm saying to not just replace these players temporarily; I'm saying replace these players permanently. You want to stay in the NHLPA? Great. Have a good time jacking Fehr off in the corner. We're playing hockey over here with the World-Wide Hockey Players Association (WWHPA).
 
S

ShaneB

Member
Listening to yesterday's Hockeycentral@Noon. MacLean is going off on Kypreos about the lowest salaries. Kyper claiming 575k isn't enough, and MacLean is calling him on that bullshit. God damn I love it. All this "put their body on the line" bullshit. They willingly do it, so I don't buy that shit for a second. Firemen and Policemen should be millionaires.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
AngmarsKing701 said:
I love hockey but at this point I want the owners to lock this set of players out forever. Can they sign an agreement with a different hockey player's association? I realize that sounds like replacement players, but whatever. I'm saying to not just replace these players temporarily; I'm saying replace these players permanently. You want to stay in the NHLPA? Great. Have a good time jacking Fehr off in the corner. We're playing hockey over here with the World-Wide Hockey Players Association (WWHPA).
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I agree with you 100000000000%. I am going to be happy when hockey comes back but it wont be the same since I hate these players so much now. The Nhl's last proposal seemed very reasonable, and the players didnt accept it because this asshole Fehr told them to hold out for more. It is sad that they claim to love playing hockey and yet they are more then willing to shit out a whole year over a few years of contract length, and they push for shorter CBA just so they can hold the league hostage for the 100th. Even the cultured people over at SA must see just how awful these players are.
 
K

Kave_Man

come in my shame circle
yankeehater said:
I agree with you 100000000000%. I am going to be happy when hockey comes back but it wont be the same since I hate these players so much now. The Nhl's last proposal seemed very reasonable, and the players didnt accept it because this asshole Fehr told them to hold out for more. It is sad that they claim to love playing hockey and yet they are more then willing to shit out a whole year over a few years of contract length, and they push for shorter CBA just so they can hold the league hostage for the 100th. Even the cultured people over at SA must see just how awful these players are.
Click to expand...

Last I saw they were still with the players (this was just after Bettman's press conference).
 
K

KernelPanic

Member
I'd say two more weeks of this BS and we'll be playing in January. Bettman's scripted meltdown was funny and I don't believe any of this "off the table" crap.

NHL wants 10 year CBA, Fehr offered 8. Settle at 9 ??? I think if the NHL pushes they can (and should) get 10
NHL wants 5 year contract limits, PA countered with 8. 6-7 years
NHL wants 5% variance on backdiving, PA wants 25%. Again settle in the middle somewhere
PA wants amnesty buyouts for cap compliance and escrow limits. I suspect the NHL will have to accept this.
"Make whole" has been agreed to by both parties at $300M
Pension has been agreed to by both parties.

I think there's more but I don't remember.

You can see the next CBA right there, there's nothing there worth cancelling the season over. Bettman is just pissed he can't bend the players over and force them to accept certain terms. The owners just want to crush the players again even though they've already won their 50/50 split and other limits (just not as good as they'd like). Funny enough that's pretty similar to the CBA that the NBA agreed on a year ago.

In the end neither side will get a CBA they love but they'll get one they can live with and that's how negotiations work.
 
S

Solo

Member
There was nothing scripted about that. In fact I'd say it's one of the very few non-scripted Bettman moments. He came off like an actual warm-blooded human being for once and gained some respect.
 
M

Marvie_3

Banned
brucewaynegretzky said:
Says the guy lapping up the Frank Luntz PR campaign....
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Bruce, you've proven time and time again that you have no fucking idea what you're talking about, and this is yet another example. Normally, I'm very pro-union, just not when it comes to pro sports. I don't give a fuck about a bunch of millionaire crybabies. If these idiots don't appreciate the amazing opportunity they have, then fuck them. Give it to someone else. Let these fuckers get real jobs and see how they like it. They have no skills other than being meatheads playing a fucking game and they're entirely replaceable. If these greedy assholes gave two shits about anyone but themselves, they wouldn't have refused to negotiate for over a year and made so many other people suffer just to score points in a fucking PR war. Instead, teams are laying off staff and people that work in or nearby arenas are hurting.

I find your Frank Luntz line especially hilarious because you're exactly the type of person who buys into his bullshit. Despite mounds of evidence contrary to your opinion, your facts remain the only facts you believe. You continue to make the same points despite being proven wrong on numerous occasions. Your selective hearing and regurgitation of unfounded bullshit is exactly what Fox News and its viewers do.
 
K

KernelPanic

Member
Solo said:
There was nothing scripted about that. In fact I'd say it's one of the very few non-scripted Bettman moments. He came off like an actual warm-blooded human being for once and gained some respect.
Click to expand...

Well the anger is real but when the NHL tried to get the players to accept their terms without Fehr in the room that's pretty lame too. The NHL cares more about union busting right now than getting a deal done. Fehr is the player's representative and like it or not the NHL is legally obligated to negotiate with him.
Bettman is just pissed the union won't cave in to the NHL's demands.
 
F

Fei

Member
You can't blame the players for wanting Fehr in the room for any formal agreement - that is specifically what he was hired for.

I blame Fehr for not understanding the finality of the owners proposal, but I also blame the owners for just up and leaving. Fehr is trying to get the best deal for the players. Owners could have said "This is it. Talk it over and let's meet tomorrow." Instead, we got a circus.
 
S

Solo

Member
The NHL DID say this is a take it or leave it offer, and Fehr was all "let's negotiate from this firm and final offer, derp"
 
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
Marvie_3 said:
Bruce, you've proven time and time again that you have no fucking idea what you're talking about, and this is yet another example. Normally, I'm very pro-union, just not when it comes to pro sports. I don't give a fuck about a bunch of millionaire crybabies. If these idiots don't appreciate the amazing opportunity they have, then fuck them. Give it to someone else. Let these fuckers get real jobs and see how they like it. They have no skills other than being meatheads playing a fucking game and they're entirely replaceable. If these greedy assholes gave two shits about anyone but themselves, they wouldn't have refused to negotiate for over a year and made so many other people suffer just to score points in a fucking PR war. Instead, teams are laying off staff and people that work in or nearby arenas are hurting.

I find your Frank Luntz line especially hilarious because you're exactly the type of person who buys into his bullshit. Despite mounds of evidence contrary to your opinion, your facts remain the only facts you believe. You continue to make the same points despite being proven wrong on numerous occasions. Your selective hearing and regurgitation of unfounded bullshit is exactly what Fox News and its viewers do.
Click to expand...

What am I regurgitating? That the league is profitable? That's fact. I don't deny teams are hurting. Some are only marginally hurting though and would be perfectly fine with concessions the PA has made. I actually don't think I'm being particularly hard line here.

Yours and Dopey's arguments have consistently been about what players "deserve." I don't buy into those kinds of arguments. I'm a believer in market forces, and that is NOT what this is about. Market forces would have forced many of these teams out of business years ago, but they survive by the good graces of the league to support a more entertaining league, which is ABSOLUTELY valuable.

What I've said numerous times is that the proposition that we need to support these teams has been taken to an unrealistic extreme. I've proposed numerous time tying revenue sharing to profits and have not been responded to once. I think if we have a bunch of teams functioning at the financial stability of the Devils that we'd be in a pretty good spot. Some years these teams make money, and some years they don't.

The whole premise that these owners "deserve" the revenue is based on traditional thoughts around a free market where owners take on the risk associated with owning a business, but that just doesn't exist in the league environment because even failing businesses get propped up by the league. Unfortunately this all ends up spilling down to the players.

The league really is similar to an accounting or law firm in a lot of ways in that its capital lies with the people who perform the service. I don't think you're going to find many law firm managing partners pulling in 50% of the revenue in their firms. It would be an absolute outrage, but for some reason we're supposed to be ok with it for players because 1.) they're paid well and 2.) they're "meatheads." I don't think that argument is particularly persuasive, especially when there is nothing really outstanding about the owners either, since most of them didn't actually "build" their franchises, but rather came in as investors later on looking for a vanity investment. Rewarding them for already being rich and having the privilege of owning a professional sports team seems just as outlandish to me.

So I'm sorry I don't agree that just because the players are a bunch of morons that they should be exempt from basic labor economic principles. The league rakes in a lot of money off their backs and I see nothing wrong with them wanting that wealth spread around the entire league rather than extracted from their salary and sent to Glendale.
 
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