I feel like people are complaining about more things than just "can't get 60fps with 8xMSAA" though.
Nier: Automata PC performance thread
- Thread starter JaseC
- Start date
I feel like people are complaining about more things than just "can't get 60fps with 8xMSAA" though.
That would be really intriguing if it were true. I haven't experimented with anything since I'd rather be playing the game.
Maybe, but I believe the "primary port impression" for a great many people is formed by putting the game on "high" (which includes 8xMSAA!) and then being disappointed at the performance results. Take that away, and you invariably end up with a much more well-received package. (not by everyone of course, like me. A MSAA option goes a long way to make me happy
)If the AA was "on" and "off" as the settings I would assume it's post process, but with options like "2x 4x 8x" I assume it's not post process. Although, to be honest, I don't think the general consumer would know the difference, and just looks for the higher number and/or "ON must be better image quality."
I don't think this is a fault of Nier though. People go and buy a graphics card, get a new game, and just immediately press the graphics preset to "SUPER ULTRA" and expect the game to run perfectly. Some graphics settings are extremely taxing for marginal gains... expecting 4k 8x MSAA to run well on an intensive game is silly, but they don't know any better. Even worse when their GPU overheats, the game crashes or starts showing artifacts, and then they blame the game cause they can't be bothered to make sure their GPU isn't cooking first.
A lot of games nowadays don't include MSAA, or don't include options like these in their very high presets even though they provide better image quality.
Options like these also provide great future proofing, cause even if we may not be able to run something like that now, when the new GTX 20,000 comes out with 10 billion teraflops, we can enjoy that nice image quality at the higher frame rates.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah MSAA always needs to be labeled better. People often don't realise (fairly) just how much their killing performance with it
Edit: Maybe even a 'disable AA for performance' in the OP might be useful
Edit: Maybe even a 'disable AA for performance' in the OP might be useful
AA off and you're happy? Damn.
From what I've tested yeah. I've had to disable AA for the meantime because the pop in was really bothering me.
Have you tried external AA to see if you can get the pop in fix + some AA?
Didn't know this was a solution, will have to try it out when next launching.
AO enables post processing AA so not like there's lots of jaggies. Picture quality is good imo.
Haven't bothered with another AA method as I think it looks clean enough when I render it at 1440p.
Finaika
Member
At 1440p you don't need AA.
Ok, I did some testing:
As such, I suggest disabling MSAA for almost every configuration, and if you are on a 1080p monitor with a really high-end card then downsample instead. For now, I'll be playing at 1440p native with ppAA, since the minor downsampling I could do and still maintain a locked 60 FPS isn't worth it.
Also, I got a money shot.
- The "AO" option toggles both AO and (a pretty good implementation of) postprocessing AA.
- If you enable both post-processing AA and MSAA, the transition effect between LoD levels is no longer gradual but abrupt.
As such, I suggest disabling MSAA for almost every configuration, and if you are on a 1080p monitor with a really high-end card then downsample instead. For now, I'll be playing at 1440p native with ppAA, since the minor downsampling I could do and still maintain a locked 60 FPS isn't worth it.
Also, I got a money shot.
Coreda
Member
So this is confirmed at this point. Cool. Earlier there were two video comparisons of the PC LoD abrubt pop-in vs the PS4 Pro smoother fade in the same location. And there were posts suggesting it was a combo of MSAA+AO, so now we know.
People should check out Cannon Goose's 8xMSAA vs no MSAA 1440p comparison shots. Can barely notice a difference in them, and now it's been tested some ppAA was being used for the AO option it makes more sense.
Zomba13
Member
Managed to play for a while this time before getting a crash. Though this time it was a proper "Nier has stopped responding" crash and not my driver crashing causing the white screen/last frame freeze thing. Had just beat a boss and was going down a corridor after playing for like an hour and a half.
Every game should have SMAA or some variant in 2017.
Yeah, they're garbage.
Bl@de
Member
Drops from 60 to 30? Sounds like double buffering. Not an conern for me since I have G-Sync. I'm sure I can achieve locked 60 without MSAA (and downsampling from 1440 to 1080 on my TV should be enough AA with some postprocessing)
So I did some more testing with my DS4 pad not working and it turns out my Xbox pad also doesn't work with the game. It's recognising both of them as KB/M controls, and before anyone suggests messing around with Big Picture Mode's controller settings, using Input Mapper or DS4Windows they don't change a thing.
Just opened up several other Steam games and both controllers work flawlessly without any external programs or any extra tinkering with Big Picture Mode's controller settings, i'm out of solutions at this point. Going to try a fresh install and see if that works, if not then i'm swamped.
Both controllers are wired by the way so their is no bluetooth interference.
Just opened up several other Steam games and both controllers work flawlessly without any external programs or any extra tinkering with Big Picture Mode's controller settings, i'm out of solutions at this point. Going to try a fresh install and see if that works, if not then i'm swamped.
Both controllers are wired by the way so their is no bluetooth interference.
The game does implement AO, but it does not look good. Looks very splotchy in the places that it does show up. It's so weak that it's not noticeable.
There is a way with reshade, but it looks bad in some areas due to it clashing with darker backgrounds while it also still permeates through prerendered cut scenes and menus. I just turned it off.
There is a way with reshade, but it looks bad in some areas due to it clashing with darker backgrounds while it also still permeates through prerendered cut scenes and menus. I just turned it off.
donno what to tell ya, i've been playing with a ds4 this whole time.
The game supports x-input so if you have the ds4 configuration enabled on Steam or using DS4 windows, idk what could be wrong. :/
ScientificPizza
Banned
What is it with Platinum PC ports and having to always move the mouse cursor off of the screen
I've posted these a few times too, but may as well post them in comparison form.
AA off / AO on compared to AA off / AO off:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/203877
AA off / AO on compared to AA 8x / AO on:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/203878
Possibly due to the lighting, in these shots AA8x actually looks worse when looking at the stairs and the fence.
The game has post-processing AA, and an implementation of it which is at least as good as SMAA.
Every game should have a non-postprocessing AA option, like this one. If not for now then for when I replay it using a GTX 1680.
Ok, I don't think it spoils anything though -- if you know the context it's not a spoiler any more, and if you don't it doesn't tell you anything.Spoiler that picture, Durante
It disappears for me as soon as I use a controller button/stick.
Yeah. If you have an Nvidia GPU, you can try setting the max pre-rendered frames to 4 in the Nvidia control panel and playing the game in fullscreen. Seems to have fixed it for some. Might introduce some input lag, however.
dgrdsv
Member
From those benchmark numbers I assume they are running 8xMSAA. Which is a bit silly. RAM results are strange.
You need to change your desktop resolution to the resolution you want to downsample from if you want to use downsampling in borderless windowed mode.
NeoRaider
Member
I honestly don't understand how can game that looks like this does, need hardware like this and be considered to be a good port.
1440p benchmarks are just... wow.
Go and run any other recent game with 8x MSAA and report back your findings.
I'll help you out, here is Deus Ex MD on a GTX 1070:
Port is OK, game itself isn't, basically.
Platinum engine has never been all that impressive, honestly.
I don't know, but with a 970 I'm a bit worried, I hope those bench are with msaa maxed out at 8x.
NeoRaider
Member
But why are you comparing any other game with this game?
Is MSAA demanding like that? I thought that SSAA is, not MSAA.
Risk Breaker
Member
Yes, MSAA (8x) is demanding like that. And unnecessary considering the good postAA in this game.
I'm not comparing it to any particular game. You are free to choose any modern game with MSAA for comparison.
I'm saying that its performance with 8xMSAA is not unexpected.
Please have a look at the chart I posted above.
MSAA in games with anything that isn't a classic forward renderer can be almost as expensive as SSAA.
NeoRaider
Member
But i want to say that it doesn't look like a modern game to me.
Fantastic. Just ordered a 1060.
I'll drop shadows to medium just in case, don't wanna mess with OC yet.
Can it run Witcher 3 at 60fps? Don't care about max settings, but my 680 can't run it at 60 even on low, so I play on a mixture of highest to medium settings and lock it to 30fps. Don't care about hairworks either.
I'm seeing mixed results in benchmarks, but benchmarks always go with highest possible settings for a better comparison, they're not worried about finding the optimal settings for each card.
At 1080p? Yeah you'll be fine without hairworks and idk what else. Don't sacrifice HBAO+ though.
What it looks like to you doesn't matter, how the renderer works does. It couldn't do the kind of particle lighting effects it does with a forward renderer, and with a deferred renderer MSAA is really expensive. These are the facts.
Also, have you actually played it? Because it can look absolutely fantastic in battles.
By the way, here is DE:MD at 1080p from GameGPU, another game with MSAA and another game where they chose to benchmark it at 8xMSAA (and where subsequently the GAF thread exploded because people don't understand what that means):
Play Mankind Divided with AA off and then come back to me.
NeoRaider
Member
I didn't. Still waiting for my key. And with 280x i am kinda worried.
I asked two gaffers with 290 and they only had good things to say. So i am hoping for the best.
KainXVIII
Member
Without MSAA Nier:A runs much better? Even if it port of 60 fps console game?
drotahorror
Member
Yes it's demanding. It's the second most demanding AA that I know of. It's a shame that we get it and then people complain about it (not you). I love when msaa is an option since it's usually so rare. I'm so sick of FXAA, TAA, SMAA, being the main options we get. With MSAA I don't have to downsample. With the other 3 methods I mentioned, I usually have to turn them off and downsample.
Any game without MSAA runs better than with it. It's incredibly taxing. Reminds me a bit of Deus Ex Mankind Divided which also featured MSAA and people flipped their shit a bit.