Angelus Errare
Banned
Well if I was fighting a super badass ninja I'd be a pussy too.
Ninja Gaiden 3 Details from TGS
- Thread starter Pooya
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lowhighkang_LHK
Member
benzy said:Pussified enemies lol.
A hardcore NG fan from NinjaFortress said it felt completely random when he played it, with it occurring more often on easier difficulties.
So you go from an action franchise in which you had pure control, to now where the basis of combat and the newest addition to the franchise's combat system is based on an element of randomness?
Fuck this noise.
sixteen-bit
Member
Stark contrast from NG2. Right from the very beginning, a Black Spider clan member with his leg cut off still wants to kill you, and still fights.benzy said:Pussified enemies lol.
â Narayan
Member
Heh. At least it doesn't look as bad as DmC._dementia said:
Angelus Errare said:
That's why you send evil ninjas to go after super badass ninjas. At least if the former takes a pounding, he's not going to completely pussy out.
But yeah, I'm not quite sure how to feel about this. Hell, if they go for the "TO PROCEED DEFEAT ALL ENEMIES" approach, then this will be absolutely pointless.
Why? Again I'm not a hack-n-slash pro but DmC looks miles better and interesting. I understand that Capcom fans are butthurt but we're not in one of THESE threads so care to explain?
At least new Dante doesn't kill every enemy with a damn finisher in one hit moving from one to another in Arkham Asylum fashion.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Jesussubversus said:
Fucking
Christ
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
The stealth sections >>>>
I won't even comment on the enemies not being super aggressive. The difficulty is always turned down for these things. The ninjas with the dual blades put up a fight though.
Something seems off with the combat. I'm not talking about the dismemberment either. I thought NG2 was terrible, so the lack of it doesn't bother me in the slightest.
Halo enemy reactions are priceless. This game will be easy as hell to speedrun, if you can manipulate the enemy ai to dropping and going to the next set.
The slowdown effect shit needs to stop. Bayonetta is the only game to have done it correctly.
How do all of these random elements affect scoring? I have to imagine you're not getting top marks if you use meter throughout the levels....
I won't even comment on the enemies not being super aggressive. The difficulty is always turned down for these things. The ninjas with the dual blades put up a fight though.
Something seems off with the combat. I'm not talking about the dismemberment either. I thought NG2 was terrible, so the lack of it doesn't bother me in the slightest.
Halo enemy reactions are priceless. This game will be easy as hell to speedrun, if you can manipulate the enemy ai to dropping and going to the next set.
The slowdown effect shit needs to stop. Bayonetta is the only game to have done it correctly.
How do all of these random elements affect scoring? I have to imagine you're not getting top marks if you use meter throughout the levels....
subversus said:
Old Dante didn't do that, either. New Dante does, however, have shitty ass slow-mo finishers that disrupt the flow of combat, especially in a game that was about combos and being stylish.
Also, I'm not a capcom fan, but an action game fan. DmC looks like ass compared to the best in the genre, which is all the more sad because it was one of the best series in the genre.
I don't think this looks so horrible, but I'm hoping higher difficulties will fix most of the problems. Wait and see on this game. Not even buy used at a massively discounted price for DmC.
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
Bwahahaha at that gif. Oh my god is that for real? Enemies dropping to their knees and crawling away from you. This looks terribad.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
I dont think thats gonna be every enemy in the gamebone_and_sinew said:
just a hunch.
Have you seen the latest stage demo for DmC? It looks leagues better than this. The art is better AND the combat isn't nearly as random. The only thing NG3 has on DmC is 60fps. I hope there is more to NG3 because it's starting to look like Ninja Theory made a way better brawler than Team Ninja.
It was so obvious from all the additions and deletions to the Sigma games that Hayashi does not know what the fuck he is doing with Ninja Gaiden. Itagaki really did make Team Ninja. They are nothing without him, at least when it concerns Ninja Gaiden.
ultim8p00 said:
I disagree with everything in your fist paragraph. I hated the DmC stage demo. Thought it was shit and looked like everything I hate about Ninja Theory games. I'd probably judge it less harshly if it wasn't supposed to be a DMC game, but...well, it is.
I also thought NG Sigma 2 a better game than vanilla NG2.
What's random about this battle system?
~Devil Trigger~ said:
DmC:
1. DmC looks more precise in terms of game play. You have control of your actions.
2. DmC's art looks better and more imaginative.
3. It's Ninja Theory. The story is going to be better.
4. Though DmC also has cinematic kills, they do not interrupt the combat as significantly as NG3 since the camera just slow-mo zooms in on your last hit rather than interrupting your combo every 2 hits as in NG3. And they do not happen nearly as often.
5. DmC at least tries to be true to the DMC series in that the game lets you string together stylish combos on multiple enemies.
NG3
1. From the videos shown, you seem to get interrupted into every 1 to 2 hits. You cannot even start a goddamn combo sometimes. You automatically go into canned cinematic kills.
2. The combat is SLOWER than DmC, even though DmC runs at half the framerate. Watch both TGS stage demos and compare (for comparison, the combat in NGII was as fast as DMC, while the combat in NGB was slower, but faster than DmC ).
3. NG3 runs at 60fps and animates way better, but again, combat is slow because Ryu moves slowly, almost as if they doubled the frames to make the game look like 30fps from 60fps. DmC does the opposite. It's not as well animated, but it feels faster because they cut frames in an attempt to make it look 60fps.
You be the judge, but it doesn't sound that crazy to me. DmC looks better at this point.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
The cinematic kills in DmC seem to happen -much- less frequently. More or less once - maybe the last enemy killed in a group gets that cinematic sequence.
NG3 seems to be doing it against every enemy, and multiple times. Not just one sequence, but multiple ones against the same fucking enemy. Okay, we get it - steel on bone. Sure.
NG3 seems to be doing it against every enemy, and multiple times. Not just one sequence, but multiple ones against the same fucking enemy. Okay, we get it - steel on bone. Sure.
ultim8p00 said:
DmC looked a lot slower to me than NG3. But this is irrelevant as they are different types of action games. Ryu moves faster than Dante does. Always has.
I don't see things getting stopped every 1 to 2 hits. Without the prompts for killing the opponent, the game seemed to flow the same as NG2 with its dismemberment kills.
I couldn't care less about a story in an action game.
How do you not have control of your actions in NG3?
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Skilletor said:
Decent NG players got their hands on the game and I've commented that some enemies don't get this cinematic, slow mo zoom in sequence. while others do.
Sometimes it happens at the end of a particular combo string, sometimes it happens earlier. There is no rhyme or reason - let alone activation for this cinematic bullshit.
hence why people are calling it random.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I am going to go ahead and guess that the demo specifically to show the "life pleading" mechanic is not indicative of all parts of the game.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
ultim8p00 said:
I dont know what the fuck you smoking/sniffing/watching/imagining.
Skilletor said:
Oh don't get me wrong, DmC looks like shit...compared to the GODs of the genre like DMC and Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden Black to Sigma 2.
The reason this battle system is random is because there is no way to know when the SOB sequences get triggered. In previous NG games, you have control of all your moves, and even OTs required you to put an enemy in a certain state and then press a button to trigger them. So for example if you delimbed an enemy, you can let him limp around and focus on a more threatening enemy, or wait for a more threatening enemy to spawn then OT the delimbed enemy to take advantage of invicibility. Also, since you know which moves recover faster and slower, and since you know how long a certain enemy's projectile attack takes to track you (like firepits for example), you know which moves are safe to do on any enemy when a projectile enemy is around so that you can cancel them if need be. In Ninja Gaiden 3 that seems like it is going to be a big problem because as you are starting a combo on a guy, you automatically go into SOB after a random number of hits. There is no way to know when exactly you will trigger a SOB. So if you notice that an enemy is about to do a tracking move on you, before you try to stop that combo you may automatically go into SOB, and depending on which SOB you do and how many frames it takes for the enemy to do their tracking attack, you will either get hit or get put in a disadvantageous position and there is NOTHING you can do about it...because you cannot control when to initiate an SOB in the first place.
If you took out the SOBs or made it so they have to be triggered somehow, that would fix pretty much everything that is wrong with NG3 right now.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Edit: I used those two post as examples but now the whole threads doing it.
Wow.
There was was once a time, not so long ago that Ninja Gaiden fans, DMC fans and Action gaming fans in general used to argue which of the two series was the pinnacle of the genre.
Its highly ironic, and not in a small way saddening, to see them now argue about which one has been fucked up the most.
Seriously, fuck this generation.
Wow.
There was was once a time, not so long ago that Ninja Gaiden fans, DMC fans and Action gaming fans in general used to argue which of the two series was the pinnacle of the genre.
Its highly ironic, and not in a small way saddening, to see them now argue about which one has been fucked up the most.
Seriously, fuck this generation.
~Devil Trigger~ said:
Can you tell me why you think the combat in DmC looks worse? From a purely objective standpoint, and not from an "omg they fucked DMC fuck you NT" standpoint. I hate what they did to DMC as well, but NG3 looks worse to me.
ShickingAlberto said:
I'm hoping that you are correct. In fact I'm hoping that I'm just prematurely upset because I'm a hardcore NG fan and that things will be ok in the end.
Adam Blade
WWKC
benzy said:Pussified enemies lol.
A hardcore NG fan from NinjaFortress said it felt completely random when he played it, with it occurring more often on easier difficulties.
Outside of the Cinemantic kills Ryu still moves well and the when he is slashing or knocking people up to do the drop it looks and moves right.ultim8p00 said:
DmC videos didn't go have one damn combo go buy with out slow down to "show" the big hits or the weird janky way Dante moves.
Not to mention the weird floatyness of the enemies or the awkwardness of the DT.
They really need to drop the kills in Ninja Gaiden 3, but when you see and feel the combat in between the retarded things it still develiers far better then the jank that is DmC combat.
You want a good summary of why DmC's combat fails? Go read up Dahbomb's post in the DmC thread, he goes way more in depth and picks apart showing exactly what is wrong with it in a bunch of different ways.
Why are people that pissed about some of the things in the tutorial level? I am sure that the enemies will be less of a pussy later on in the game and in the higher difficulties. Sure, you wont have ninjas crawling without any legs trying to kill you, but these types of enemies werent existant in NG1 either.
Also, have there been any word on which weapons are in the game? I really hope all of the ones from NG2 is in it, even if I believe its highly unlikely. Last I heard was that you would unlock the weapons by playing the multiplayer mode, but that doesn't sound right.
Also, have there been any word on which weapons are in the game? I really hope all of the ones from NG2 is in it, even if I believe its highly unlikely. Last I heard was that you would unlock the weapons by playing the multiplayer mode, but that doesn't sound right.
My bipolar opinions of this game continue, I want it to succeed but every single change to the gameplay seems to be for the worse. Only 1 weapon for the whole game, stealth stages (I hate stealth in any game, even MGS) trying to add a story, etc.
It does look as though they've built a brand new engine that looks great , so that's a plus.
I'm mostly annoyed because I had in my head what should have been the perfect ninja gaiden experience (ninja gaiden 2's combat combined with the level and boss design quality from ninja gaiden 1), instead hayashi has basically washed the board clean, almost pretended that ng1/2 never happened and now this is his reinterpretation of the series. Which whatever I guess, it's his studio I suppose.
It does look as though they've built a brand new engine that looks great , so that's a plus.
I'm mostly annoyed because I had in my head what should have been the perfect ninja gaiden experience (ninja gaiden 2's combat combined with the level and boss design quality from ninja gaiden 1), instead hayashi has basically washed the board clean, almost pretended that ng1/2 never happened and now this is his reinterpretation of the series. Which whatever I guess, it's his studio I suppose.
Kayo-kun said:
You unlock weapons in multiplayer and you use them in multiplayer only, at least that's what I read in some preview a while back and also what seems to be coming from NinjaFortress.
I'm hoping that you get to use them in single player because it wouldn't make any goddamn sense.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
My take is the base combat in NG3 is untouched and perfectly serviceable so by default It beats DMC in that area.
but ultimately, Its really what shit sandwich you can stomach most.
I can still see myself buying this over DmC, but only just.
but ultimately, Its really what shit sandwich you can stomach most.
I can still see myself buying this over DmC, but only just.
Adam Blade
WWKC
Only swords?
:/
Itagaki...
:/
Itagaki...
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Pachinko said:
I don't think I was just you. I think that's all every Ninja gaiden fan wanted.
personally, I would of just settled for changing the game to be similar to the way NGB made you have to think about what weapon to use before an encounter. Do that, remove the projectile spam and you could of sold me the exact same game with a "3" pencilled on the box with felt tip pen.
I really do think if Itagki had enough time to finish the game, it would have been equal to black. It had a ton of great ideas, just frustrating execution on the higher difficulties.
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
We wait with bated breath for The Queen's return to save us from this Action gaming mediocrity.ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
TruePrime said:
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Imagine if Dante just randomly Devil Triggered mid combo in DMC3, or that the whole game played like automatic mode. It doesn't matter if the jumps are perfect, or if moves connect right. Once you introduce an element of randomness to an action game, it automatically becomes a button masher where you press buttons to see cool things happen. It's not an action game anymore. Everything else is secondary. You have to get the core tenet right first, which DmC has. NG3 has not. It doesn't matter that Ryu is so well animated or that the moves look right if you have random shit interrupting the moves.
Skilletor said:
c'mon, don't be ridiculous. It can't look slower because it's not interrupted by some goddamn finisher at least.
I could agree about slo-mo breaks though, but I must play it first - it depends on responsiveness... God of War has some slo-mo breaks and I loved it.
I have never played Devil May Cry (except demo for DMC4 and Dante was SLOW there).
as for reference hack-n-slash games I've played:
-God of War
-Golden Axe I and III
-Ninja Gaiden Sigma + NJII
-Prince of Persia: Warrior Within (lol)
-Heavenly Sword
that's all so I judge this videos and games as a quite novice player.
What demo of DMC4 did you play? The only one I know of had you controlling Nero.subversus said:
Even if you mean him then no, not at all. While Nero didn't run fast everyone of his atttacks flowed from one to another and was far smoother in excution the anything shown in DmC. Also why the hell is the lol next to PoP WW instead of Heavenly Sword?
TruePrime said:
becaues POP is a platforming game, not a classic hack-and-slash. But Warrior Within had some hack-and-slash elements I liked.
and yes, I played as Nero... I just chose one option never bothered with another.
The motherfucker ran like he was 100 years old and I hated that but I certainly don't remember any pauses during combos, that's for sure. I might try it as Dante then, because DmC gameplay from TGS made me excited about the franchise.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
ultim8p00 said:
like I said before, they both are pale imitations of their former selves
NG= random SOB interrupting flow of combat
DmC = dumbed down combat with air "I win" button thats badly animated.
still, SOB aside, there is still some depth to be manipulated in NG3. Its not much, but it is still present.
Thats why for me at least, I can still consider a purchase of this game abiet at a reduced/ used price.
The run speed is slow that much is true.subversus said:
The difference comes in when you start attacking. Go load up some DMC4 and pull of a few different combos and then load up DmC and it will be light and day how one is speedy/responsive and flows and the other one is jank and chugs for no reason other then to add an effect that isn't needed.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
subversus said:
then you have no idea what you are talking about..
And lol at DMC4 being "slow"
you consider this slow?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjsuGB3S92Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATpe0f-WasA
and nero had a move in the demo that speeded up his run speed after a few paces...i dont know what you are talking about.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Nero sucks ass, I don't need "a move" which turns on automatically about 5 seconds after the start of running animations and doesn't speed this dude up really. I'll try the demo tommorow as Dante, may be he's better in that regard.
As for these videos... Sure, looks impressive, but I wasn't able to do even 10% of this in the demo. These guys are just crazy.
sixteen-bit
Member
Feels Batmanclaviertekky said:
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
subversus said:
practise makes perfect. Im far from a great DMC player myself but it can be learnt
this will get you started.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKoBz65eRaA
and while we are on the subject, just for the people who think Ninja Gaiden cant be played like DMC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8BrWG3vKjo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpGgvkd4DHw
shuriken cancels are the shit.
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