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[Arc]

Unless I'm mistaken, Nintendo is still 2.5B ahead.

Market Cap is a horrible way to judge the size and spending capacity of a company. It is simply a calculation of outstanding shares multiplied by the share price.

 

[Father_Brain]

Horrible numbers. Simply horrible. This misses everyone's most pessimistic expectations for operating income expectations by $400M+ USD and baseline estimates by over $650M+ USD. No one seriously thought they were going to hit $1 B USD in operating profits. Most people were seeing Nintendo hitting 30% of the target as a baseline. That they are expecting a loss for the year of $350M USD is mind-boggling.

Tehrik has been a pretty big apologist for Iwata-era NCL management in other threads, so if this is his reaction, you know they're pretty fucked.

 

[gamergirly]

And now we play the Nintendo Direct waiting game!

Soon, surely?

We already had a Nintendo Direct about a year ago that showed off a lot of games that still haven't been released. We need game releases on store shelves/digital. The Directs are fine as long as they are producing and releasing games regularly.

Nintendo is going to turn the ship around. But it's just unfortunate that they wasted 2 years like this. Now the general public has to wait until all of this R&D, HD development, and crossover titles come to fruition. I can just hope that they start the next fiscal year off right with Smash Brothers and Mario Kart. No more platformers for a while plz

 

[Amir0x]

Tehrik has been a pretty big apologist for Iwata-era NCL management in other threads, so if this is his reaction, you know they're pretty fucked.

it's in the tea leaves now. Something has got to give.

2014 is going to be one of the most fascinating years in this industry's history I think

 

[Kieli]

Hopefully this brings back desperation-era Nintendo so I can snap up a WiiU-Me-He-She-They for about 200 bones.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

And touch screen functionality with your eyeballs!

It would only have one touchscreen and it is setup for your droopiest eye, of course.

 

[Instro]

Should they start supporting mobile it would certainly be a big deal if they could create a definitive controller shell to connect with phones. If Nintendo ever does go 3rd party they are a company who could continue to make hardware by way of interesting peripheral devices.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

So I was just looking through Nintendo's financial releases.

They are projecting an operating loss of 12bn yen for the second half, compared to an operating loss of 7bn for the same period last year.

Nintendo's financial performance is actually worsening, not getting better. Horrible.

 

[dave is ok]

Iwata seppuku incoming.

 

[RoombaDance]

Nintendo is a toy company, competing in a tech company space.

The sooner they understand that, the sooner they can start making fundamental changes to their business plan.

Why do you think they made the Wii?

 

[Tagg9]

So I was just looking through Nintendo's financial releases.

They are projecting an operating loss of 12bn yen for the second half, compared to an operating loss of 7bn for the same period last year.

Nintendo's financial performance is actually worsening, not getting better. Horrible.

Thank god they have cash reserves.

 

[Mysterious]

Thank god they have cash reserves.

So does Blackberry.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

What you're proposing is Nintendo going third party, but for the smartphone tablet market before they'd do so for the home console and PC market. Samsung and Sony and so on need no "help" in making hardware, all they'd want from Nintendo is their lucrative IP games.

What I'm proposing is that Nintendo makes their own (cheap) hardware and use Android as OS, to enter the mobile market. You can play games on the Nintendo hardware or if you have a Samsung, HTC or whatever Android device, where you can use the Nintendo store to play the same games and at the same time, Nintendo wins money by selling these games to a much broad audience and market.

People still be interesed on a Nintendo handheld can buy it and have a device with a controller with an open OS as Android. People that already have an Android phone can still play Nintendo games.

Is a compromised solution, but way better than becoming a full software company, at least in the handheld market. "If you can't win, join them"

 

[gamergirly]

Horrible numbers. Simply horrible. This misses everyone's most pessimistic expectations for operating income expectations by $400M+ USD and baseline estimates by over $650M+ USD. No one seriously thought they were going to hit $1 B USD in operating profits. Most people were seeing Nintendo hitting 30% of the target as a baseline. That they are expecting a loss for the year of $350M USD is mind-boggling.

Only four things can explain these losses IMHO:

1. Nintendo's gross margins on software must have shrunk dramatically. Meaning that they are barely making any money on their own software much less third party software which has all dramatically dried up on both of their platforms globally. This bodes very badly for Nintendo in general - even if they were able to go third-party and hypothetically sell 2-3X the number of games (which I very much doubt) - what this shows is that Nintendo has lost its pricing power at retail - people aren't ready and willing to pay the Nintendo premium.

2. Nintendo bled money at retail trying to push hardware - far more than anyone expected - they must be eating close to a $100+ loss per Wii U sold right now or more - not just because of manufacturing cost - but because they are literally having to compensate retailers to provide them with shelf space and having to eat the price drop at the same time. This is horrible - because even if they take that much of a loss - the low gross margins on their own first-party games isn't sufficient to help them break even.

3. Nintendo isn't going to get Mario Kart or Smash out by early April - otherwise they would have been able to book orders under the current fiscal year. It looks like both games are going to be delayed well into the summer or into the Fall now. I am almost 100% positive that if it were even possible to get the games out by April or May - Nintendo would have done everything in their power to do so. It looks like Nintendo still hasn't effectively transitioned to HD development - not because of capability - but because they want to preserve gross margin based on their lower expected revenue numbers - and it's compromising their ability to get projects out the door on-time.

4. Nintendo is playing shell games with their accounting - booking contractual payments to Intelligent Systems and their other closely related entities as operating losses for tax purposes but which are effectively asset purchases - it means that they are dramatically restructuring their teams and it's going to be far more expensive than we thought.

If these estimates hold up - Nintendo will have generated a $1 B+ operating loss over the past three years. Here's the kicker though: Nintendo is still sitting on over $1 B+ in inventory that they haven't impaired yet (the IR report makes no mention of it). There is a good chance that over 80% of that is Wii U hardware which means that it's going to continue to be a drag on earnings over the next twelve months.

In any case, I don't foresee any major changes for Q3 happening. Nintendo is still going to engage in a buyback of 5% - which is going to drain their cash by another $1 B USD.

That means in three years Nintendo's war chest will have been depleted close to $2.5 billion USD from inventory impairment, operating losses, and share repurchases. Another $500M USD is going to be gone for asset / real estate purchases and capital investments. Their next hardware projects are going to require about ~$1.5 B USD in capital reserves at a minimum that are going to be tied up in the next two years as they wind down their existing platforms, and I don't see third-party licensing revenue coming back in a big way to offset declining gross margins on their first-party software.

Basically that means Nintendo could burn through ~$4 B in cash throughout this entire cycle and in anticipation of the next, with a very high cost structure intact. Like Sony, they will have effectively wiped out cumulative years of profit.

If we assume that Nintendo keeps building up human resources this coming year to meet their hiring targets, they are probably going to break-even in terms of operating profit for the next fiscal year or make a slight profit - but I'm even second guessing my own ability to understand Nintendo's gross margins now - someone at NOA or NOE is effectively writing giant checks to retailers to keep the channel alive - and that's really not good at all - Apple was in this same position in the late 90s and had to create their own retail stores to stop bleeding money to major retailers. Nintendo isn't going to have the investor support to launch a giant retail project in the US and EU, particularly when they no longer have proven pricing power which would be the primary argument to go that route.

Difficult time to be a Nintendo shareholder.

How do you figure that?

 

[PK Gaming]

Thoughtful post

This post gave me chills

I just hope Nintendo considers doing half, or perhaps even a quarter of the things you've suggested.

 

[orioto]

I feel like if Nintendo set themselves 100% to VR, they'd still execute worse than Oculus. Right now everyone in the VR space is working together, sharing tech, reporting stuff publicly, iterating. Hell, look at Oculus' model--send out development kits to hobbyists and devs alike BEFORE you even have a consumer product. I feel like Nintendo's model of developing in secret would basically guarantee that they had no external developer buy-in and their hardware would be more half-baked than what's being worked on right now.

Look at Valve's approach. Valve built a best-in-class multi-thousand dollar VR prototype and said "We don't plan to sell this, we plan to work with people in VR to make sure everyone builds towards a better future" and then they released an API for using VR for free to a bunch of developers and said "Enjoy". I don't see Nintendo competing with that.

This is in part why I think Nintendo's problem is partially to do with its corporate culture and refusal to engage with competitors. It's possible if you lock yourself in the room, you'll come up with something everyone else missed. But it's probably more likely you'll miss something everyone else came up with.

(Not to take away from the spirit of your idea, which is that Nintendo should seek new avenues that they can compete in. I totally agree with that.)

That's probably right yeah..
They were good at making things like motion control and tactile screen mainstream, but it was mainly cause nobody was really trying at that time. Still, i think.. what they did with the N64, having a really cheap approach to make something mainstream.. Justly, everyone, Oculus, Valve will try to have a great great product. What if Nintendo can pull the carpet from under their feet by having a really cheap vr that is nice and fun you know, who knows. I don't really believe it anyway.

Even if this was a good idea for Nintendo, it's really too late. Sony is extremely far along now in building their VR tech. There'd be no way for Nintendo to catch up with the R&D Sony has done, and likely Microsoft too given their "road to Fortaleza" stuff. (Edit: Stump's explanation is also much more eloquent, as always)

That's a common theme with Nintendo these days - they're always too late. So many things they're "finally" doing on Wii U were nice, and I appreciated them, but they were too late to change the perception. And even on Wii U, we have things that they should be doing that other competitors had done since the beginning of last gen. It's just really sad how Nintendo refuses to adapt even in the ways that make sense for them to, just because they want to go their own path. Sometimes that is admirable, and sometimes it's the whole thing that makes them appealing... but the problem with them as a company is they never seem to know when it's good to dance to the beat of their own drum and when it's good to meet industry standards.

Honestly, I think Wii U is beyond saving. I cannot think of a strategy that would change what has happened, no amount of Zelda's or Mario's are going to be enough. The market is simply not interested right now in large numbers.

But for the next console? If I were them, I'd be willing to put anything up for grabs. Nintendo's most appealing facet right now is the memories people have of them, which are always positive. Maybe they could do something revolutionary with their retro lineup? Like how PC emulators have ways to play old SNES games with friends, they could perhaps build a system infrastructure that is capable of playing their old catalogue online? And they'd have a smartphone/tablet app that you could transfer any game you've purchased on your Nintendo system to your phone or your tablet. The goal would be to get the system in at $149.99 or less, and carve out your own niche... that of family reintroducing their kids to the classics of the past. That would be the whole marketing angle. They could create new game in "retro styles" - Gamecube generation style games, NES generation style game, SNES generation style games, Gameboy generation style games. Those games would be under the "Generations" label, giving people a clear indication of what they're getting. Retro is chic. Not only would that appeal to retro sensibilities, but it'd allow them to pump out games at a much faster rate - it's cheaper to produce games from those generations, and it's clear Nintendo had trouble adapting to the HD gen. That's not to say the system wouldn't be HD, it would, but that would not be the focal point.

I don't know. I am really just throwing out steam. But I hope they come up with something.

That's the thing. What if they are not late. What if they worked on different plans all along! I guess Nintendo is always trying different approach for its next generation..

Anyway about what you say about the retro "strength". obviously they can make great things with their catalog, we agree. BUT i also think that this is this particular philosophy, that will kill Nintendo on the long term. The idea that they are a company from the past, dedicated to please an ever shrinking group of loyal fans. Their new games are always dev with this in mind now. It's like they don't need to go forward anymore. They just feed their fans until the end.

 

[Pie and Beans]

What I'm proposing is that Nintendo makes their own (cheap) hardware and use Android as OS, to enter the mobile market. You can play games on the Nintendo hardware or if you have a Samsung, HTC or whatever Android device, where you can use the Nintendo store to play the same games and at the same time, Nintendo wins money by selling these games to a much broad audience and market.

People still be interesed on a Nintendo handheld can buy it and have a device with a controller with an open OS as Android. People that already have an Android phone can still play Nintendo games.

Is a compromised solution, but way better than becoming a full software company, at least in the handheld market. "If you can't win, join them"

Why would you buy the Nintendo Phone over the Samsung Galaxy S6 in that situation? You don't "part way" go third party, you either do or you don't. Right now, Nintendo sells hardware on it being the only place to play those IP experiences, not on cutting edge hardware sold at razor thin margins.

You haven't thought this through. Its okay though, I doubt Nintendo's seemingly inevitable investor pushed entrance to mobile will be thought out well either.

That's the thing. What if they are not late. What if they worked on different plans all along! I guess Nintendo is always trying different approach for its next generation..

You'd have seen the tech company acquisitions and patents folding out by now if they were. VR is going to be a razor thin model too, getting in on a ground floor to push a grand future of services and more. Not what Nintendo is prepared to enter into, especially when you need a PS4 level box for rudimentary entry.

 

[Wotanik]

I wonder how Iwata/Nintendo fails to see, or even understand, that these days their target audience (kids, youngsters, youth) is more interested in murdering, pillaging and war than fluffy creatures and platformers. CoD/BF sells while only us, the old gamer farts (30yo+), long the days of Mario and Zelda. Seems like Nintendo is stuck in the early 90s when the whole world was different and the current market is just murdering their colorful fluffy creatures.

It's really not bad at all to have a vision like Nintendo has, but at the same time they need to "whore" themselves to make the money to create these "kiddie" games. They'd be in so much better position if they'd release their first parties to other platforms and just release their platform for interested 3rd parties.

They really can only blame themselves for this as they didn't read the market properly and they didn't even look at the western gaming culture.

Just a shame as I grew up with NES and N64.

 

[Tagg9]

3. Nintendo isn't going to get Mario Kart or Smash out by early April - otherwise they would have been able to book orders under the current fiscal year. It looks like both games are going to be delayed well into the summer or into the Fall now. I am almost 100% positive that if it were even possible to get the games out by April or May - Nintendo would have done everything in their power to do so. It looks like Nintendo still hasn't effectively transitioned to HD development - not because of capability - but because they want to preserve gross margin based on their lower expected revenue numbers - and it's compromising their ability to get projects out the door on-time.

No one is suggesting Smash Bros. will be out in April/May, but Mario Kart is a lock at this point. It has repeatedly been listed as "Spring 2014" on release schedules (as well as the December Nintendo Direct), and was fully playable at last year's E3.

 

[The Hermit]

Oh well...

BRB buying an Iphone 5 to play Nintendo games.

 

[crinale]

I'm really wondering why they didn't revise the forecast beforehand..?

Spoiler

I hope the reason isn't to wait until Yamauchi's family sold their stocks.

 

[baxter2231]

ELI5 "deferred tax assets" ? They were planning on paying back some of last year "taxes" with this year "profits"? But since this year is bad, they can't use that cushion to soften last year bad performance?

Ugh, accounting.

No they have that because they lost money in a prior period if they made money they would use that tax asset to reduce their taxable income. For example if they have a tax asset of 50 bucks and made 75 buck they only pay taxes on 25 bucks not 75. When you lose money you cant pay the tax since there was no profit they get essentially a credit so when they return to profits they reduce what is taxable.

 

[Coolwhip]

There's change coming.

Believe that.

Mario will get an orange hat.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Why would you buy the Nintendo Phone over the Samsung Galaxy S6 in that situation? You don't "part way" go third party, you either do or you don't. Right now, Nintendo sells hardware on it being the only place to play those IP experiences, not on cutting edge hardware sold at razor thin margins.

You haven't thought this through. Its okay though, I doubt Nintendo's seemingly inevitable investor pushed entrance to mobile will be thought out well either.

I would buy a Nintendo Android device (not necesarily phone) for 100-120$/€, instead of spending 600$/€ on a new Galaxy S6. And many other pople will do so.

You understand there a lot of space in pricing to work between a high end Samsung Mobile (or even their "cheap" ones, which aren't really cheap at all)?

And you have to consider that the Nintendo hadrware willl have a controller solution out of the box for traditional games that Samsung mobiles wouldn't. In practical effects, the Nintendo hadrware will be still a full handheld, but with Android as OS and the chances to expand their audience exponentially.

 

[digita1alchemy]

I feel so bad for Nintendo. They make the very best video games on the planet and no one wants to buy them. The direction of the entire industry pretty much sucks right now.

 

[MarkMclovin]

Zombi U i'll give you. W101 already has pro controller support. what kind of touch controls does Rayman, is it an integrated part of the gameplay?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=512140
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=733045

There are some on the rails sections in Rayman where you have to use the touch screen only. I can't remember how much of that is in there though.

It would be so easy to remap those games to not utilize the controller. I really didn't like playing 101 with the gamepad either. I would try and do the swipes on the screen but the joystick was so much more consistent.

But that's not up to Nintendo is it? Would Ubisoft go through the trouble of changing some of their games just to support 2 lots of controls? I'm pretty sure it's not just a simple patch. The whole touch screen element would have to be ported over or changed completely.

I totally agree that if the gamepad was an accessory from the beginning with the pro controller as the main controller and the console thus being a cheaper price, then maybe things would be different. But then I'd be asking myself, why get it?

 

[rjinaz]

I feel so bad for Nintendo. They make the very best video games on the planet and no one wants to buy them. The direction of the entire industry pretty much sucks right now.

Yeah but that is very much debatable. I will say that Nintendo games are of high quality and can be a lot of fun, if they are your thing. The problem is, Nintendo rarely steps outside of their own Mario/Zelda/Donkey Kong/Kirby/Metroid world so if these games don't appeal to you, then you aren't going to agree they make the best games. Actually if it wasn't for Monolith Soft I would have very little interest in what games Nintendo puts out there. And since the Wii U has little 3rd party support, you won't have much to play on the Wii U if those games aren't your thing.

 

[digita1alchemy]

Yeah but that is very much debatable. I will say that Nintendo games are of high quality and can be a lot of fun, if they are your thing. The problem is, Nintendo rarely steps outside of their own Mario/Zelda/Donkey Kong/Kirby/Metroid world so if these games don't appeal to you, then you aren't going to agree they make the best games. Actually if it wasn't for Monolith Soft I would have very little interest in what games Nintendo puts out there.

Then I would seriously question your taste and you are part of the problem.

 

[RoombaDance]

I guess this proves definitively that Nintendo is too big to sustain themselves with such a floundering system.

This has probably been mentioned, but apparently Iwata has reaffirmed that he's not stepping down. Although who knows if this isn't the old "admit no problem publicly then quietly announce a new CEO 6 months down the line".

Was hoping for a Nintendo Direct after this news settled down, but I'm wondering if we have to wait until the full Jan 30 Q3 results.

 

[Pie and Beans]

I would buy a Nintendo Android device (not necesarily phone) for 100-120$/€, instead of spending 600$/€ on a new Galaxy S6. And many other pople will do so.

You understand there a lot of space in pricing to work between a high end Samsung Mobile (or even their "cheap" ones, which aren't really cheap at all)?

And you have to consider that the Nintendo hadrware willl have a controller solution out of the box for traditional games that Samsung mobiles wouldn't. In practical effects, the Nintendo hadrware will be still a full handheld, but with Android as OS and the chances to expand their audience exponentially.

So the grand plan would be to make another handheld, while at the same time making the games on that handheld available on all other mobile handsets (because multiplatform phone dev is just that easy), and somehow hope that people remembering Mario is still a thing will come back to Nintendo hardware because "its the one with buttons".

All this before making Mario games available to the PS4/Xbox/PC markets because of what. a grudge? As I said, once you go third party, you go third party. You don't pick and choose what counts.

 

[Horseticuffs]

I would buy a Nintendo Android device (not necesarily phone) for 100-120$/€, instead of spending 600$/€ on a new Galaxy S6. And many other pople will do so.

You understand there a lot of space in pricing to work between a high end Samsung Mobile (or even their "cheap" ones, which aren't really cheap at all)?

And you have to consider that the Nintendo hadrware willl have a controller solution out of the box for traditional games that Samsung mobiles wouldn't. In practical effects, the Nintendo hadrware will be still a full handheld, but with Android as OS and the chances to expand their audience exponentially.

I think they could tie this in nicely with the "hybrid" concept. It's sensible, though I wouldn't let non-nintendo hardware access the Nintendo Market. Buy the cheap nintendo tablet thingy to access their wares.

I'd love to see their only platform going forward being a type of tablet with physical controls. Entirely digital with a real account system. Games $10-20. Full access to google play so nintendo doesn't need to make their own media marketplace like the big boys. I would be so down.

But nintendo will never do this because, as much as I love them, they are morons who are bound and determined to go down in flames and never understand how or why.

 

[rjinaz]

Then I would seriously question your taste and you are part of the problem.

Eh people like different things. Not sure what else to say to being called "part of the problem" for not liking something.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Then I would seriously question your taste and you are part of the problem.

everyone quick, save this multibillion dollar corporation!

 

[RM8]

I'll never understand why people think it's a good idea for Nintendo to make a phone or a tablet. I do understand that they could make some money from iOS and Android, but making their own hardware? On a market where your device becomes obsolete after one year? Where only a couple of brands make it big? Where specs DO matter? Lol, people. The fact that WiiU is bombing hard doesn't mean literally any other idea is a better idea.

 

[PreyingShark]

Sadly every single one of the people who either said or believed that the Wii U would sell 9 million units will still be working for the company tomorrow.

Iwata really, really, really needs to get some new analysts.

 

[Baleoce]

Nintendo's #1 challenge going forward is becoming a more global company.

Yup. Spot on.

 

[Christopher]

I still csnt believe their e3 last year...nothing and I mean nothing would have sold anyone on a Wii U. I cant believe their flagship Mario was a 4 player 3D land...

 

[scoobs]

Then I would seriously question your taste and you are part of the problem.

Well then I seriously question your taste.... look at the most frequently mentioned GOTYs last year by journalists and GAFfers alike. Only Nintendo game you see is Zelda and its a handheld game. Newsflash: people like other stuff now. People move on. Skyrim, GTA, CoD, Assassins Creed... these are the games that sell now. Nintendo failed to adapt, and now they're having to make a really tough decision on their future.

 

[PedroRVD]

If Nintendo wasn't so lazy they could at least add a coin system, "bragging-rights" or something like achievements to Virtual Console.

Come on, they can at least give me scans of the manuals, a picture, a related accessory for my Mii etc of a NES game if I beat it. But no...NOTHING...$5 for a ROM that can be played for free on virtually every device.

Socialize Virtual Console...add a little "something" to it and I would buy the whole library. Give me a sense o completion...a reward for being a nerd who owns all your classic stuff.

 

[Basileus777]

- WiiU Price Cut through means of GamePad removal. Many cry foul whats the point, and really the only one is whether they ever want to make a home console again. A 3rd place console survives its twilight years by reaching the impulse "oh why not" extra-console buy.

The GamePad is the obstacle to that right now, but then in kind theres no doubt Zelda U is going to be so all up in the GamePad's functions it may be impossible to cut. Essentially the WiiU's failure has written off the entire home console future for them one way or another. Theres also no chance of third parties buying the same line for the 3rd or 4th time and show up on another.

The question I have never seen answered is, if Nintendo is sitting on heaps of unsold inventory that they can't sell, how is cutting the gamepad out going to save them money? The gamepads have been manufactured, so unless you think it will spark sales by a huge amount, those savings would be for a future not to come.

 

[Sneds]

I feel so bad for Nintendo. They make the very best video games on the planet and no one wants to buy them. The direction of the entire industry pretty much sucks right now.

PC gaming has probably never been better.

 

[Rizsparky]

If Nintendo wasn't so lazy they could at least add a coin system, "bragging-rights" or something like achievements to Virtual Console.

Come on, they can at least give me scans of the manuals, a picture, a related accessory for my Mii etc of a NES game if I beat it. But no...NOTHING...$5 for a ROM that can be played for free on virtually every device.

Socialize Virtual Console...add a little "something" to it and I would buy the whole library. Give me a sense o completion...a reward for being a nerd who owns all your classic stuff.

From a financial point of view it makes sense, its easy to effectively rob us all using the least amount of effort.

 

[Sneds]

Then I would seriously question your taste and you are part of the problem.

Nah. She/he is absolutely right.

Nintendo make some great games but they're not for everyone.

 

[Horseticuffs]

I'll never understand why people think it's a good idea for Nintendo to make a phone or a tablet. I do understand that they could make some money from iOS and Android, but making their own hardware? On a market where your device becomes obsolete after one year? Where only a couple of brands make it big? Where specs DO matter? Lol, people. The fact that WiiU is bombing hard doesn't mean literally any other idea is a better idea.

The obsolescence wouldn't necessarily come into play for Nintendo in my imagination because while what they've made is essentially a tablet with physical buttons they would market it as a new handheld with access to a legitimate media marketplace and an app market.

Most apps on Android run just fine on devices even 3 or so years old and since the device would retail for around $150 brand new who cares about upgrading in 2 or 3 years? It isn't like this thing JUST plays games. Also since it's all digital and account based when you do upgrade you keep your games.

It's just, I think, a good plan going forward. It gives them a product to sell without needing to keep up with the Joneses, developers know what hardware to shoot for still, and what price point to aim at. Steam - type sales could be a thing. Nintendo sucks at everything but making games. They've got no media marketplace and their OSes are a Frankenstein's monster of a joke. This takes all that trouble away from them. I just find the prospect appealing.

I don't think nintendo will do it, though.

 

[sörine]

So the grand plan would be to make another handheld, while at the same time making the games on that handheld available on all other mobile handsets (because multiplatform phone dev is just that easy), and somehow hope that people remembering Mario is still a thing will come back to Nintendo hardware because "its the one with buttons".

All this before making Mario games available to the PS4/Xbox/PC markets because of what. a grudge? As I said, once you go third party, you go third party. You don't pick and choose what counts.

The setup Relaxed Muscle is proposing doesn't sound like a traditional 3rd party relationship but more like a hardware partnership between Nintendo and Samsung. Sort of like the relationship we saw with Hudson and NEC creating PC Engine or the proposed relationship between Nintendo and Sony for the SNES CD/PlayStation.

On Xbox or PlayStation Nintendo has little room to negociate equal or better terms than a partnership and they have no control over architecture, tools or interface (all of which are vital to their R&D structure). It also locks Nintendo out of developing their own direct digital storefront as I doubt either Microsoft or Sony will allow Nintendo to have their own eShop on their hardware (Valve would though). It's not about a grudge, it's about control and roi.

 

[Shengar]

So to me, Nintendo's #1 challenge going forward is becoming a more global company.

This, as Nintendo is one of the most conservative Japanese corporation out there. If only they never focused all power to NCL, and let NOA keep their privilege.

PC gaming has probably never been better.

If mainstream gaming turned into service, PC gaming still have digital distribution and kickstarter. That's enough to keep us survive.

 

[outunderthestars]

Why do you think they made the Wii?

The Wii was a toy. And like most toys it was a huge hit for a short amount of time, then pretty much died as consumers moved on to better options for entertainment.

 

[Pie and Beans]

The question I have never seen answered is, if Nintendo is sitting on heaps of unsold inventory that they can't sell, how is cutting the gamepad out going to save them money? The gamepads have been manufactured, so unless you think it will spark sales by a huge amount, those savings would be for a future not to come.

Already made Game-Pads are sunk costs, if its not selling, its not selling. Could sell them in separate bundles for the games that absolutely need them (Zelda probably), or find a way to piece them out for some other purpose (see Vita boards for Vita TV). I see what you mean though, why not just give em away and price slash anyway.

As I said, this isn't a case of making the WiiU a success anymore, but if they wanted to make another home console like device, they have to reach a certain level of "success" through approaching at least near Gamecube numbers, or the stench of ultra-failure follows onto the next product. Essentially the Sega Saturn to Dreamcast effect. If another $150 price tag is whats required to get near that and they really want to make another home console box, what else is there to do?

The setup Relaxed Muscle is proposing doesn't sound like a traditional 3rd party relationship but more like a hardware partnership between Nintendo and Samsung. Sort of like the relationship we saw with Hudson and NEC creating PC Engine or the proposed relationship between Nintendo and Sony for the SNES CD/PlayStation.

On Xbox or PlayStation Nintendo has little room to negociate equal or better terms than a partnership and they have no control over architecture, tools or interface (all of which are vital to their R&D structure). It also locks Nintendo out of developing their own direct digital storefront as I doubt either Microsoft or Sony will allow Nintendo to have their own eShop on their hardware (Valve would though). It's not about a grudge, it's about control and roi.

And as I said, Samsung needs no Nintendo help with hardware. Theres no partnership there beyond software, and thats when Nintendo finally just accepts theyre out of the hardware game because they cant compete. Nintendo couldn't "control" Samsung at this point. Nintendo Playstation moves and similar are just not on the table.

 

[QaaQer]

I do wonder how much of this loss is down to R&D. It is rumour that nintendo settled on a new System on Chip design for something at the end of 2013. Handheld or home machine? No one is too sure. R&D can cost an awful lot though.

Is anyone confident they are spending their R&D monies on the right stuff?

 

[Shengar]

Nah. She/he is absolutely right.

Nintendo make some great games but they're not for everyone.

Their games are great, but lets face the truth: they are platform holder, they won't gain any profit from keeping their idealism. They aren't small developer that lives out from niche audience like Obsidian, or inXile. They must either adapt and change their game, or keep their idealism and go third party. Hardware business isn't cheap, and they should know all the risk.