obs: if any number, analysis or conclusion is wrong, please tell me and I will fix it. Thanks.
It's a little funny that a few months ago we are speculating about how powerful the NX will be when compared to Ps4 or XBOX One. Back there, are rumors that telling that NX will be more powerful than Ps4, using Polaris and have an amazing power to show... but them the Eurogamer's rumor come and, what no one expect, it's just a portable machine.
To start, why is everyone accepting the Eurogamer's rumor as true? Because, many other sites confirmed what say they:
So, right now, the safest we can assume is what Eurogamer tell:
- high-powered handled console with its own display.
- two controller sections on either side of screen, which can be attached or detached as required.
- A base unit, or dock station, is used to connect the brain of the NX on TV
- NX will use 32 GB game cartridges
- development kits currently using the Tegra X1 chip found in the Shield Android TV
- relatively lower level of performance compared to the existing current-gen machines
- Tegra X1 in the NX development hardware is apparently actively cooled, with audible fan noise.
In the EG's article they speak very clearly that NX is not at the same level in performance if compared to the Ps4 or even XBOX one. That MCV article tell us that NX is between Ps3 and PS4 in power, what don't help much.
Other thing to notice is the actively cooled Development Kit, what indicate an overclock Tegra X1 on it. Lets talk about the possibilities of this.
About Tegra X1
For who don't know Tegra X1 is not ideal as a handled/smarthphone chip. It was created to machines like the shield TV, that can use more power. In fact, the Tegra X1 alone can consumes 10W ( The Shield TV uses 20W while gaming). Compare this with other machines:
- NDS: 0.2 W
- 3DS: 4 W
- Vita: 5W
- IPhone6: 5W
- GPD: 10W
- iPad Pro: 10W
- Wii U: 33W
It's definitively more than any handled machine until know. Of course Nintendo can Underclock it to obtain a balance between performance and power consumption. Looking this article, the previous Tegra Chip, the K1, uses less than 11 watts and have a performance of 26SP GFlops Per Watt . The X1 have 2x the performance per Watts. This means 52 GFLOPS per watts at 1 GHz.
If tegra on NX has the same performance per watts we have:
- 260 GFlops at 1.5 Watts and 500 MHz (VITA's GPU uses 2 watts and have 27 GFLOPS)
- 512 GFLOPS at 10 watts and 1000 MHz
If Nintendo insist in make a portable with the X1, it will be, basically a Wii U. But when asked for Nintendo if NX will be the successor of 3DS, they say:
If they make a home console, it will replace the Wii U, if they make a Handled, it will replace the 3DS, but what can be enough different to not simply replace both? A tablet.
A 20 Watts tablet can utilize the full power of that chip, and not directly replace the 3DS or Wii U.
But, why they are utilizing a overclock X1 on the development kit?
Tegra N1 the Pascal
Tegra X1 is a amazing chip, it supports all major graphics standards:
- Unreal Engine 4
- DirectX 12
- OpenGL 4.5
- CUDA
- OpenGL ES 3.1
It lunches in 2015, but even for today, it is one of the more powerful tablet's chips every create. Can this chip Run modern games? I believe the answer is yes. For a comparison, look this gameplay of Witcher 3 on a PC with a Geforce GT 635 (that is weaker than X1):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKxaTUNLAE8
But, if you compare it with machines like the PS4 or even the XBOX one, it is very weak. Look:
WiiU: 0.17 TFLOPS + fixed functions
GT635: 0.33 TFLOPS
X1: 0.51 TFLOPS at FP32 (1.02 at FP16, but its not used in console games that gen)
XOne: 1.23 TFLOPS
Ps4: 1.84 TFLOPS
Remember that TFlops in Nvidia is roughly 30% better performance than AMD devices.
Shaders:
- Wii U: 160 shaders @ 550 GHz
- X1: 256 shaders core @ 1 GHz
- Xone: 768 shaders from 12 compute units @ 800 GHz
- Ps4: 1152 shaders from 18 CU @ 800 GHz
And if you compare the memory bandwidth the things get worse:
- WiiU: 12.8 Gb/s (1 GB for gaming 2 GB total)
- X1: 25.6 Gb/s (2 GB)
- GT635: 28.5 Gb/s (2 GB)
- Xone: 68 GB/s (5 GB for gaming 8 GB total)
- Ps4: 176 Gb/s (4.5 GB for gaming 8 GB total)
CPU:
- WiiU: 3 cores latte PPC
- X1: 4 cores ARM Cortex-A57 + 4 cores ARM cortex-A53
- Xone: 1.75 GHz X86-64, with 8 cores, 1 thread each 8 threads total
- Ps4: 1.6 GHz X86-64, with 8 cores, 1 thread each 8 threads total
In CPU Tegra is OK since A57 is faster than Jaguar on Xbox and Ps4. But the shaders are very low (3 Tegras X1 don't have the same shader power of a xbox one)
One thing we can't forgot that it's a mobile chip vs desktop chips. More than that, if NX is a tablet, it will probably be a screen with a 540p or 720p resolution. Its is a lot less pixels for the GPU process than the 900p or 1080p that XOne and Ps4 have. But there is an important information that we can't forgot: the possibility to plug it on TV.
If they want to put a 6 - 8 tablet with a 540p display, OK, but that kind of resolution is not OK for TV. They need more power to give, at least, 720p (or 1080p to make everyone happy)
That when enter in scene the new Tegra chip that Nvidia is creating, with a new architecture: the pascal: http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-gpu-gtc-2015/
- 4X the mixed precision performance
- 2X the performance per watt
- 2.7X memory capacity
- 3X the memory bandwidth of Maxwell.
A machine using Pascal can consumes as low as 10 Watts, what can be done in a handled format. More mixed precision can be useful utilize the FP16 and give GFLOPs that get closer the XBOX one.
If NX is really using that kind of solution, then, say can build a true hybrid machine. One with power to show games on TV with the minimum accept quality.
And, of course, we can't forgot the API that NX will use.
Vulkan the DirectX 12 for NX
Anybody remember how MS is telling the advantages of DirectX 12 will bring to Xbox One? Things like lower CPU overhead and more advanced GPU features, what can improve the overall performance of the console.
Of course NX will not use DX 12, but it will use the direct competitor of that API: The Vulkan. How can we know that? Because Nintendo joins the group that is creating the Vulkan.
You can know more of that API here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvioALNs_Bc
The dock and Supplementary Compute
One last thing to talk is about the Dock mode, when we plug the machine on TV to play games.
Some people are talking about the possibility of that Dock increase the power of the machine to give us a high resolution when plug on TV.
One thing is need to be clear, that idea is not in any rumor I can found. So, why people are discussing that as a possibility? It's because that patent: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/2...s-nx-console-is-like-nothing-weve-seen-before
According to that patent, Nintendo is creating 2 ways to increasing the power of their machine: Local and Remotely.
Remotely can work like Streaming, already used in Shield TV, but instead of a super computer of them processing and send the image, the idea here is everyone machine can help each other.
And stop to think about the power necessary for different resolution:
- 240p: 352 x 240 = 84.480 pixels (3DS resolution with 3D active- 800x240p with 3D off)
- 540p: 960x540 = 518400 pixels ( 5x the number of pixels of upper screen of 3DS)
- 720p: 1280 x 720 = 921.600 pixels (1,7x the number of pixels of 540p)
- 900p: 1600 x 900 = 1.440.000 pixels (1,5x the pixels of 720 or 2,7x the 540p)
- 1080p: 1920 x 1080 = 2.073.000 pixels (2,2 x the pixels of 720p or 4x the 540p)
Increase from 540p to 1080p is not the double, but instead, is 4x more pixels to a GPU compute. It's not a easy task. Even 900p is hard to archive.
It's a little funny that a few months ago we are speculating about how powerful the NX will be when compared to Ps4 or XBOX One. Back there, are rumors that telling that NX will be more powerful than Ps4, using Polaris and have an amazing power to show... but them the Eurogamer's rumor come and, what no one expect, it's just a portable machine.
To start, why is everyone accepting the Eurogamer's rumor as true? Because, many other sites confirmed what say they:
So, right now, the safest we can assume is what Eurogamer tell:
- high-powered handled console with its own display.
- two controller sections on either side of screen, which can be attached or detached as required.
- A base unit, or dock station, is used to connect the brain of the NX on TV
- NX will use 32 GB game cartridges
- development kits currently using the Tegra X1 chip found in the Shield Android TV
- relatively lower level of performance compared to the existing current-gen machines
- Tegra X1 in the NX development hardware is apparently actively cooled, with audible fan noise.
In the EG's article they speak very clearly that NX is not at the same level in performance if compared to the Ps4 or even XBOX one. That MCV article tell us that NX is between Ps3 and PS4 in power, what don't help much.
Other thing to notice is the actively cooled Development Kit, what indicate an overclock Tegra X1 on it. Lets talk about the possibilities of this.
About Tegra X1
For who don't know Tegra X1 is not ideal as a handled/smarthphone chip. It was created to machines like the shield TV, that can use more power. In fact, the Tegra X1 alone can consumes 10W ( The Shield TV uses 20W while gaming). Compare this with other machines:
- NDS: 0.2 W
- 3DS: 4 W
- Vita: 5W
- IPhone6: 5W
- GPD: 10W
- iPad Pro: 10W
- Wii U: 33W
It's definitively more than any handled machine until know. Of course Nintendo can Underclock it to obtain a balance between performance and power consumption. Looking this article, the previous Tegra Chip, the K1, uses less than 11 watts and have a performance of 26SP GFlops Per Watt . The X1 have 2x the performance per Watts. This means 52 GFLOPS per watts at 1 GHz.
If tegra on NX has the same performance per watts we have:
- 260 GFlops at 1.5 Watts and 500 MHz (VITA's GPU uses 2 watts and have 27 GFLOPS)
- 512 GFLOPS at 10 watts and 1000 MHz
If Nintendo insist in make a portable with the X1, it will be, basically a Wii U. But when asked for Nintendo if NX will be the successor of 3DS, they say:
If they make a home console, it will replace the Wii U, if they make a Handled, it will replace the 3DS, but what can be enough different to not simply replace both? A tablet.
A 20 Watts tablet can utilize the full power of that chip, and not directly replace the 3DS or Wii U.
But, why they are utilizing a overclock X1 on the development kit?
Tegra N1 the Pascal
Tegra X1 is a amazing chip, it supports all major graphics standards:
- Unreal Engine 4
- DirectX 12
- OpenGL 4.5
- CUDA
- OpenGL ES 3.1
It lunches in 2015, but even for today, it is one of the more powerful tablet's chips every create. Can this chip Run modern games? I believe the answer is yes. For a comparison, look this gameplay of Witcher 3 on a PC with a Geforce GT 635 (that is weaker than X1):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKxaTUNLAE8
But, if you compare it with machines like the PS4 or even the XBOX one, it is very weak. Look:
WiiU: 0.17 TFLOPS + fixed functions
GT635: 0.33 TFLOPS
X1: 0.51 TFLOPS at FP32 (1.02 at FP16, but its not used in console games that gen)
XOne: 1.23 TFLOPS
Ps4: 1.84 TFLOPS
Remember that TFlops in Nvidia is roughly 30% better performance than AMD devices.
Shaders:
- Wii U: 160 shaders @ 550 GHz
- X1: 256 shaders core @ 1 GHz
- Xone: 768 shaders from 12 compute units @ 800 GHz
- Ps4: 1152 shaders from 18 CU @ 800 GHz
And if you compare the memory bandwidth the things get worse:
- WiiU: 12.8 Gb/s (1 GB for gaming 2 GB total)
- X1: 25.6 Gb/s (2 GB)
- GT635: 28.5 Gb/s (2 GB)
- Xone: 68 GB/s (5 GB for gaming 8 GB total)
- Ps4: 176 Gb/s (4.5 GB for gaming 8 GB total)
CPU:
- WiiU: 3 cores latte PPC
- X1: 4 cores ARM Cortex-A57 + 4 cores ARM cortex-A53
- Xone: 1.75 GHz X86-64, with 8 cores, 1 thread each 8 threads total
- Ps4: 1.6 GHz X86-64, with 8 cores, 1 thread each 8 threads total
In CPU Tegra is OK since A57 is faster than Jaguar on Xbox and Ps4. But the shaders are very low (3 Tegras X1 don't have the same shader power of a xbox one)
One thing we can't forgot that it's a mobile chip vs desktop chips. More than that, if NX is a tablet, it will probably be a screen with a 540p or 720p resolution. Its is a lot less pixels for the GPU process than the 900p or 1080p that XOne and Ps4 have. But there is an important information that we can't forgot: the possibility to plug it on TV.
If they want to put a 6 - 8 tablet with a 540p display, OK, but that kind of resolution is not OK for TV. They need more power to give, at least, 720p (or 1080p to make everyone happy)
That when enter in scene the new Tegra chip that Nvidia is creating, with a new architecture: the pascal: http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-gpu-gtc-2015/
- 4X the mixed precision performance
- 2X the performance per watt
- 2.7X memory capacity
- 3X the memory bandwidth of Maxwell.
A machine using Pascal can consumes as low as 10 Watts, what can be done in a handled format. More mixed precision can be useful utilize the FP16 and give GFLOPs that get closer the XBOX one.
If NX is really using that kind of solution, then, say can build a true hybrid machine. One with power to show games on TV with the minimum accept quality.
And, of course, we can't forgot the API that NX will use.
Vulkan the DirectX 12 for NX
Anybody remember how MS is telling the advantages of DirectX 12 will bring to Xbox One? Things like lower CPU overhead and more advanced GPU features, what can improve the overall performance of the console.
Of course NX will not use DX 12, but it will use the direct competitor of that API: The Vulkan. How can we know that? Because Nintendo joins the group that is creating the Vulkan.
You can know more of that API here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvioALNs_Bc
The dock and Supplementary Compute
One last thing to talk is about the Dock mode, when we plug the machine on TV to play games.
Some people are talking about the possibility of that Dock increase the power of the machine to give us a high resolution when plug on TV.
One thing is need to be clear, that idea is not in any rumor I can found. So, why people are discussing that as a possibility? It's because that patent: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/2...s-nx-console-is-like-nothing-weve-seen-before
According to that patent, Nintendo is creating 2 ways to increasing the power of their machine: Local and Remotely.
Remotely can work like Streaming, already used in Shield TV, but instead of a super computer of them processing and send the image, the idea here is everyone machine can help each other.
And stop to think about the power necessary for different resolution:
- 240p: 352 x 240 = 84.480 pixels (3DS resolution with 3D active- 800x240p with 3D off)
- 540p: 960x540 = 518400 pixels ( 5x the number of pixels of upper screen of 3DS)
- 720p: 1280 x 720 = 921.600 pixels (1,7x the number of pixels of 540p)
- 900p: 1600 x 900 = 1.440.000 pixels (1,5x the pixels of 720 or 2,7x the 540p)
- 1080p: 1920 x 1080 = 2.073.000 pixels (2,2 x the pixels of 720p or 4x the 540p)
Increase from 540p to 1080p is not the double, but instead, is 4x more pixels to a GPU compute. It's not a easy task. Even 900p is hard to archive.
http://kotaku.com/miyamoto-can-imagine-nintendo-making-hybrid-console-han-1594989023
Most of what you said during the second half of the post appears to be speculation.
